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Wishful Thinking - Just Repeating Lies Does not make The Truth

Reader comment on item: Islamist Turkey vs. Secular Iran?
in response to reader comment: A reply to Mr. Zala

Submitted by Michel C. Zala (Switzerland), Jan 31, 2011 at 11:51

>>>>You are right that we people do have a long way to learn and far longer way to go. But tell me one thing when you say something about the so-called "Christian reformation" what is tne end product of that man ? Communist and Nazi totalitariansm ? American imperialism ? Hiroshima , Vietnam and Iraq these are all exmaples that are the fruits of the so-called "Christian reformation". Tell me one positive political ideology that came out of your so-called "Christian reformation" ?>>>

This paragraph of yours is literally obliterating your entire base of arguments.... while making my points in brutal consequence.

Christianity has not - as opposed to Islam - spawned political ideologies. Our ideology as well as superior political system is democracy, which existed long before Christianity, a religion which at best amplifies or supports some elements of said ideology (see Us constitution or Pledge of Allegiance)., but otherwise has ( for centuries now) absolutely nothing to do with poitical ideology. On the contrary - undue influence of religion upon politics is to be fiercly opposed. Our religion exists in parallel, on another (spiritual) dimension of the socio-demographic structure.

If you really want to compare, then compare communism, naziism, (dictatorial, oligarchic)) islamism (dictatorial, oppressive, theocratic) to republicanism or social-democracy (liberalismus, individualismus, equality based), if you want to compare religions, then stay on the topic and compare Islam to Christianity for instance.

It makes full sense that you mix apples with oranges, as Islamism by design is an ideology comprised of all classical ideological aspects plus religion - or the religion becomes the ideology, its incubator and promoter. AND THIS IS THE KEY DIFFERENCE BETWEEN OUR CULTURES.

If you read your history, you simply must concede that Nazis and Commmunist Ideologies stand diammetrally opposed to Christianity, quite actually the religion was suppressed and its representatives brutally persecuted. To make a statement that Christianity spawned such aberrations, is moronic, as if Christianity was bent on destroying itself, whereas Islam clearly spawned Islamism with all its subsequent wars, invasions, genocides up to current atrocities from Sudan to Saudi Arabia.

You also mention Vietnam, which indeed was a war between ideologies. Communism vs, social-democracy. The utter annihilation of the former South Vietnamese movement towards democracy and the excesses and ethnic cleansings of the marxist Khmer Rouge in Cambodja after the war only makes my point yet again with regard of the superior ideology of democracy vs oppressive regimes carried by rigid, undebatable ideologies of the kind of Islamism, Communism or the Nazi.

You also mention American Imperialism, where I will at least concede that some basic principles of Christianity at all times influenced American politics. But it must be seen as little more than the lowest common denominator of a variety of Judeo-Christian belief systems, serving as a basic moral compass, nothing more. A well designed system of checks and balances in the framework of our beautiful constitution prevents any undue influence of religion on the politcal process. Unheard of and impossible in muslim nations, where religion is the overriding force in many places. In a nation, which hosts literally hundreds of religions and is comprised of a population originating from every corner of the world, including muslims, secularism is a must, a prerequisite to form a national identity.

Hiroshima - to rebuke your other (stupid) example for another atrocity commited in the name of an ideology...have you forgotten, that Japan attacked the US with a sneak attack? While it must have been a gut-wrenching decision to make, in the end it was a no-brainer to end the war ( which was started and waged against the US by an aggressor after all) with a few admittedly brutal strikes, rather than loosing another 300-500k soldiers (estimates vary) in an attempt to invade and occupy a still very courageous and fiercely determined enemy. Both Japan and Nazi-Germany were in the last stages to develop their own nuclear weapons.... do you doubt for a second, considering their track record of genocide and ethnic cleansing, they would have used them to win the war?

Iraq - yet another stupid example to support the argument for American Imperialism. Who waged war 2 times against its neighbors first? Who killed a quarter of a million Kurds with chemical weapons? More than 600000 people killed within Iraq alone (oppression, genocide and ethnic cleansing) are attributed to Saddam alone. People like you get hung up on the bad intelligence in terms of WMDs, but they neglect that Saddam was in in fact one of the worst mass murderers in the 20th century. get it into your bonehead, man, the Americans did the right thing, while admittedly offering the wrong justification. If the US had the courage at the time to simply justify their engagement by removing one of the worst monsters of recent history, we likely would not even debate the merits of that war, and the world would hail the Americans (again) as the true liberators they actually and in fact are. We, as opposed to China and Russia, have nothing to prove anymore, as we do have the undisputable track record of being a benign super power. Dozens of prospering fully independent democratic nations from the former sovjet republics to South Korea prove good intent plus results. If that is imperialism, go ask Germans, Hungarians, Koreans, French, Bulgarians and so many more, if they prefer this "Imperialism" over the so beautifully benevolent governing of a China or Russia or the freedom and liberties currently enjoyed by Iranians, let alone their Jews or Christians...... Go ask women in muslim nations, in what society they would wish to live.

Lastly you ask of one positive ideology coming out of Christianity. I can not positively do so, as the main achievement of Christianity is to support social democracy while abandoning its effort to influence worldly politics to a high extent, which is why you can not name a single genocide or atrocity committed in the name of GOD for hundreds of years, while Islam still exercises its deadly grip on its followers to this very day, resulting in millions of deaths in the 20th century and beyond. While muslim hostage takers scream Allahu Akhbar, when beheading a hostage or during those lynchmob gatherings in Tehran, you can not name a single murder committed by a Christian fundamentalist.Islam is all-encompassing, while Christianity lives in a mainly spiritual domain.

In conclusion I want to challenge you:

I can go on any given Sunday to mass in any Christian church and there and then debate and ridicule them openly on the merits for instance on creationism. I can without fear state that they are wrong and God did not create the world in 6 days about 6000 years ago, as we found archeological proof for humans existing 15 million years ago. I could without fear post a cartoon of jesus on my website.

Can you go to your Friday prayer at the mosque and do the same without fearing for your life? Can you alienate your congregation and debate the merits of inequality of man and woman within islamic culture?
What happened to the last cartoonist daring to depict Mohammed (next to jesus and Buddha in a harmless cartoon) ?

Once all people in your culture have the freedom to speak out, dissent, debate and criticise without fear, once all religions have the right to operate freely in your nations without fear of oppression, once you cleaned up your act in terms of just basic civil liberties, then you have earned the right to debate with me superioritiy of cultures, religion or even "American Imperialism". Before that.....good Deb, you do nothing than blow smoke out of your ass.

Considering your appaling hubris, arrogance, outright denial of the facts, I have to spell it out for you in no uncertain terms for once: Don't you realize that your are sitting up to your chin in a deep crap heap while arrogantly pointing out some spots of bird shit on our fairly clean dinner smoking? Only a blind fanatic displays such an audacity, which once again only proves my point. You are not only deeply immersed in the shit, you by now are also full of it. It will take a fire hose of hot water from the outside to get you clean again. It stinks indeed.

Submitting....

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Note: Opinions expressed in comments are those of the authors alone and not necessarily those of Daniel Pipes. Original writing only, please. Comments are screened and in some cases edited before posting. Reasoned disagreement is welcome but not comments that are scurrilous, off-topic, commercial, disparaging religions, or otherwise inappropriate. For complete regulations, see the "Guidelines for Reader Comments".

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