1 readers online now  |  69 million page views

thoughts on Christmas eve

Reader comment on item: Islamist Turkey vs. Secular Iran?
in response to reader comment: My response to " Logic To A Point"

Submitted by the Grand Infidel of Kaffiristan (Australia), Dec 24, 2010 at 05:03

Michel writes:
GIK wrote >>>Mo split the moon with his little finger or he did not. He married and slept with a 9 year old when he was 53 or he did not. He was responsible for mass murder or he was not. He was the last 'prophet' or he was not. indeed - he was a prophet or was not. There are no shades of grey here - these things either occurred or they did not.>>>

"Above arguments do not hold water for me, as our own Bible is full of events, which can be questioned at best. As mentioned before, there are quite a few Christians who actually believe in Noah's Ark or Moses splitting the Red Sea, Jesus creating food out of nothing etc. I personally think that all these ancient documents are full of legends and parables.

These points are crucial - if they are not true then people are following a lie.

We'll work back from the last 2 mentioned. The splitting of the Red Sea could have been more a 'miracle' of timing than a manifestation of the supernatural. The current theory is that it was not the Red sea - but the 'reedy sea' - an area of deep marshes on the Nile delta. The island of Santorini erupted causing a tsunami that drew back the water and many minutes later flung it back as a tidal wave - wiping out the army pursuing the Israelites.

The 'Flood' theory is that it was actually the flooding of the lands occupied by bronze age tribes surrounding the then low-lying Black Sea basin. The Black Sea was the result of the opening up of the Straits of Bosporus allowin in gigantic quantities of water from the Mediterranean.
Now - to the New Testament. Did Christ walk on water and make food from nothing etc etc?

This is going to be a little difficult to reply to without seeming a little 'out there' - but what the hell - it's Christmas - so in a spirit of generosity , forgive my indulgence in the metaphysical.

Let's take a look at reported phenomena down through the ages here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metaphysical_levitation (not that Wikipedia is always a definitive source of information but generally it has been subjected to peer review by people knowledgeable in the area of concern.)
Notice that levitation is one of these - the same thing Christ is reported to have done.
as was this guy : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/St._Joseph_of_Cupertino

Sure, it's a topic that followers of the religion of scientism scoff at - but maybe there's far more to the story than they can know in their current frame of reference. Ironically science itself has pushed back the barriers to show we live in an imponderably vast and amazing cosmos.
Let's follow through on the idea that the physical world , the world of 'matter' only seems to be the way it is due to the limitation of our senses and the predilection of our minds to keep reshaping 'out there' in a certain way - so that we end up looking at each new moment - not in the way it is - but in the way it has seemed to us. Let's go with the facty that we actually live in a quantum soup, a sea of energy the true nature of which is awesome beyond belief. Just perhaps the fundamental nature of that energy is consciousness itself. To describe it they gave it a label - and we now use the English word 'God' to represent the idea of the experience of that Source. let's step back from our emotional reaction to that word and the sound we associate with those letters. 'God' of course is not a 'thing' but also not an idea. How to define it? I guess we could say it is everything outside of but also including our own personal ignorance . But people of course call it different things - 'Buddha Nature, the Atman, Bliss, Cosmic consciousness' etc' - no one word can describe the indescribable.

Could it be that some people down through the ages have had an ability to profoundly tap into that creative source within ther own being? Saying it is a state of mind I don't think would do it justice - as obviously this must be a deeply grounded ontological experience.

Maybe someone so grounded, being merged with the power behind the universe ('I and the Father are one' - said Christ) being fully awake to his true potential, has abilities that are 'super' natural - beyond natural.

In looking for an example of this just now - I found this series on You tube - and having just watched the first episode - I see it coincides with my understanding so far. So while I don't have any particular barrow to push - you might find this interesting:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yMJ6qxH9dcw&feature=player_embedded
Well worth watching.

Now - back to the subject at hand. The 'miracles' in the koran are fundamentally different to anything in the New Testament. They are outlandish and bizarre. There's nothing even approaching the monstrous chimera of Al Burak. An animal that is ostensibly of the species Equus - yet fitted with birdlike wings that allow it to fly . The wings' performance characteristics are superb - not only flapping fast enough to carry the 700kg or so of the creature's weight - but the 'prophet' rider as well - at fantastic speeds. But not only do we get wings - for some reason the beast has the 'face and breasts of a woman' (one wonders why!) and 'the tail of a peacock'.

And then we have the story of the talking ants which by accounts many muslims take to be true.

Christ's focus was on encouraging individual people to experience 'non-ordinary' consciousness - 'the Kingdom of Heaven is within you' - joy of being alive to the bliss of being and connected with their deepest selves. Buddha wanted people to experience the Clear Light of Bliss.' No such focus on inner experience by Mo. No deep humility and compassion for psychically asleep human beings surrounding him. In fact revenge for wounded prime seems to be the flavour of the day .

Instead we have the phantasm of the external 'Allah' who is always coming up with convenient suggestions for Mo himself and the focus on amassing wealth through robbery and justifying the keeping of slaves and silencing of critics etc And while on that subject what need would a realised being have of sleeping with a nine year old girl?

People who are caught up in as much superstition and ritual as Islam have completely lost direction. They are following a god of their imagination - not the clear light of truth. Does the creative power behind the universe - the source of consciousness, require people to face Mecca 5 times a day and mumble something to it? Is there a requirement for people to shout 'allahu akbar' at any occasion or recite the lie that is the Shahada - that Mohammed was the last prophet? Or go to a city in Saudi Arabia and walk around a black obelisk housing a tektite?

Does this awesome energy care about such things?

Referring now to Havas - his quote about the 'terrorist dogs' you mentioned would stem from his insight into what 'God' is all about - as Sufism - the mystical tradition of islam is in my way of thinking probably the truest aspect of islam.

I guess my point is - oil and water simply do not mix - or put another way illusions are no substitute for truth . And our truth is where it has always been , sitting unrecognised for the most part - within.

Merry Christmas to all

Submitting....

Note: Opinions expressed in comments are those of the authors alone and not necessarily those of Daniel Pipes. Original writing only, please. Comments are screened and in some cases edited before posting. Reasoned disagreement is welcome but not comments that are scurrilous, off-topic, commercial, disparaging religions, or otherwise inappropriate. For complete regulations, see the "Guidelines for Reader Comments".

Comment on this item

Mark my comment as a response to thoughts on Christmas eve by the Grand Infidel of Kaffiristan

Email me if someone replies to my comment

Note: Opinions expressed in comments are those of the authors alone and not necessarily those of Daniel Pipes. Original writing only, please. Comments are screened and in some cases edited before posting. Reasoned disagreement is welcome but not comments that are scurrilous, off-topic, commercial, disparaging religions, or otherwise inappropriate. For complete regulations, see the "Guidelines for Reader Comments".

See recent outstanding comments.

Follow Daniel Pipes

Facebook   Twitter   RSS   Join Mailing List

All materials by Daniel Pipes on this site: © 1968-2022 Daniel Pipes. daniel.pipes@gmail.com and @DanielPipes

Support Daniel Pipes' work with a tax-deductible donation to the Middle East Forum.Daniel J. Pipes

(The MEF is a publicly supported, nonprofit organization under section 501(c)3 of the Internal Revenue Code.

Contributions are tax deductible to the full extent allowed by law. Tax-ID 23-774-9796, approved Apr. 27, 1998.

For more information, view our IRS letter of determination.)