25 readers online now  |  69 million page views

"Civilisational entropy on the rise" ... If entropy is a change to a more disordered state, then civilization produces more disorder than the lack of it.

Reader comment on item: How the West Could Lose
in response to reader comment: To Ianus: Civilisational entropy on the rise

Submitted by Ianus (Poland), Mar 12, 2007 at 18:26

Dear Plato, you wrote :

> Ianus you are in inverted commas. I am in bold. Just in case the post gets scrambled.

"And as the caliph personified Islam, so Mustafa had no choice but to order his fanatically Moslem Anatolian soldiers to fight their previous "shadow of Allah on earth"

This raises the question about the fanaticism of the Turks. Their fanaticism seems to have detached itself from the 'shadow of Allah on earth' who personified Islam (accepted for hundreds of years by Muslims) and transferred itself to a military commander?

Yes, it did happen as at that time Mehmet VI relied on and befriended the Allied Forces that occupied Constantinople and was in favour of their demands against Turkey. Although it necessarily estranged the Turkish officers and soldiers who wanted no concessions Mehmet VI was strong and influential enough to start a civil war against his Army Inspector who was building an anti-western army at the heart of Anatolia. At that time (1919-1920) , dear friend , the situation was so pervert that the "backward" caliph was pro-Western and Mustafa Pasha our would-be "secularist" was savagely anti-Western. And the loyalty was transferred to the army commander after the so called Caliph's Army was crushed in the field and exterminated by the Kemalists. Besides , you should remember that it was long after that that Mehmet VI lost only his sultanate (military office so to say) , while his caliphate was abolished much later after breaking a tremendous opposition. So the Anatolian peasants were exterminating the Christians of Asia Minor still under the banner of Mehmet VI as they still recognized his nominal suzereinty. His was still their caliph . It was only after the war was over that the open break and the expulsion of Mehmet VI took place. The fiction of caliphate (pro-Western until the very end) had to give way to the anti-Western genocidal dictatorship of Mustafa Kemal - the new "sultan" and the new "caliph" in a turban of "secularism" , if I may use a metaphor understandable to his Moslem soldiers .

> It seems that if some local events could achieve such a drastic transfer of loyalty from the person who personified Islam

"Local events" ? Man , what are you talking about? The treaty of Sèvres abolished Turkey practically as a state. It was an event that meant death to Turkey! Had the allied waited half a year longer with making the treaty public the Caliph's Army would have wiped out Mustafa's rebellious Grand Assembley and all it stood for in spite of their lslamic window-dressing ! It was a cataclysmic event that allowed Mustafa Masha to come to power and oust Mehmet VI out of office.

> what prevents that happening in other parts of the Islamic world.

The simple fact that such incredible circumstances that were created in Anatolia between the end of 1918 and autumn 1922 recurr once in a five hundred years or perhaps in a thousand years or never.

"They did it only because they believed that Allah had sent a new "ghazi" a better caliph to them."

> Maybe you have something to substantiate that statement ,

How can you explain in a different way the fact that although Mehmet VI excomminicated Mustafa Kemal , still the army didn't abandon him ? Do you suppose the illiterate peasant Anatolians were already "secularists" , although at that time nothing indicated Mustafa Pasha's secularism ? They understood the struggle in religious terms and if the caliph turned against them they could turn agaist the caliph only because they had someone better than a caliph on their side and not because they had none or a kaffir leader. Or do you believe they were fighting against Allah who stood on the caliph's side? They gave the title "ghazi" - the destroyer of the infidels - to Mustafa Pasha for quite plain reasons. They knew no titles and honours but the Islamic ones.

> but I would think what happened in Turkey is a demonstration of the universal fact that humans, if they can be shown something/someone better than what they have, will change loyalty - an evolutionary instinct hard-wired into us.

If you read some study ( I'd suggest Jacques Benoist-Méchin , "Mustapha Kemal. La mort d'un Empire , Paris 1954) on what really happened between the truce at Mudros and the treaty of Lausanne you would see that things were a little more intricate. Some incredible whimsical coincidences made the conflict between an able and ruthless rebel- tyrant and a corrupt and feeble-minded tyrannical "shadow of Allah on earth" something unique which can't by any means be treated as a universal paradigm. What was paradoxical in the struggle was that Mustafa Pasha avoided openly condemning his opponent until he gained absolute power and could fear no rebelions from his owm Moslem troops. His Moslem soldiers were convinced that fighting the Caliph's Army they were fighting for Allah , not against Him.

"The outward weakening of Islam served the strengthening of Mustafa Pasha's personal power and did no real harm to the cause of Islam as now it was the only religion of Turkey "

> Surely even though islam probably strengthened in Turkey its power was weakened in the world.

But this outward weakening was a temporary one. Time was on Islam's side in Turkey and as statistics has greater force than an arbitrary ruling of a long dead tyrant the regaining of power by Islam in Turkey is just a question of time.

> Witness the pining for the caliphate among Islamists.

They have a problem though who's going to be a new caliph. I do hope they'll fight a protracted and bloody civil war over the issue.

"And his pan-Turkism? What was it if not a jihad without using the name? "

> Would any self-respecting Muslim want to jettison jihad for pan-Turkism?

You can join the two things as Enver Pasha did. Mustafa couldn't do that. His saviour's name was Lenin.

> As you have yourself pointed out the Arabs hated the Turks.

And why ? Because the Turks - a minority in the Ottoman empire - were to all intents and purposes the "Herrenvolk" while the Arabs felt that they themselves as the descendants of the prophet should be the "Herrenvolk" of the Ottoman empire.

> I can't imagine Turkey leading a new Turikish caliphate.

Why ? If Turkey rejects his secularist hijab - if I may put it so - and proudly unveils its Moslem beard and puts on a turban on its head, then many a past wound can be forgotten and many a bridge to Arabian Islam can be built.

"What a typically Western distinction! You imply people are more important than ideas. It applies no doubt to our humanistic culture. But transferring it so simply onto Islam it's highly risky. In the East an individual is nothing. The collective is all and the religion(deen) is sacred and infallible and most tyrannical.

For me people are.

Prove this approach of yours is valid for Islam too!

> That ideas are more important than people is essentially an Islamic idea.

And here we are talking mainly about Islamic ideas and what they imply for us , dear Plato.

> Islamists are always calling on Muslims to defend the idea of Islam with death and destruction because that is what many verses in the Koran tell them to do.

And that the end of the argument Plato. You can't say "but" when your Moslem interlocutor states this "fact". He knows of no "but" to Allah's word.

>But ideas are generated by people (not by Allah).

I wonder how you will explain this typically Enlightenment idea to a Moslem ?

> Ideas are generated, incubated, emerge from and are nurtured by people. Old ideas can be replaced/abrogated by new ideas. It happens all the time.

I hear Dr. Pipes teach and preach... Now prove this is valid to our most beloved Moslems' deen !

> Islamic ideas do have an iron grip on Muslims. Many believe it is made of stainless steel but I believe it is mild steel and is beginning to rust especially with the ideas corrosive to Islam being spread by the internet and modern communications.

You're so optimistic, Plato.

My impression is that the internet and modern communication - value-neutral as they are - can serve quite the opposite purpose. They provide a good ground for brain-washing opportunities for "endangered" Moslems on how to oppose and combat those corrosive ideas. If I am not wrong most Moslems prefer to watch live reports from Mecca to reading our dimmi-no-more's disclosures of Moslem lies and tricks.

> Muslims are more important than Islam.

I'd say : "No Moslems, no Islam".

I wrote: They can be persuaded to interpret their religion differently.

Your reply: "Differently ? How do you mean that ? They will invent un-Islamic Islam like Islamo-democracy and Islamo-humanism or what ?"

> One of the curious ideas I have noted on one blog is that some Muslims claim many of the Koran's directives were meant only for prophetic times i.e. for those directly addressed by the prophets and those not directly addressed are generally not subject to them.

And you pin so much hope to that ? Which verses did they mean ? Probably those already abrogated in the prophet's own time like "There is no compulsion in religion".

> I do not know when this idea started.

Most probably , another trick to make Islam look respectable at any cost and to deceive unprepared kaffirs still waiting for a miracle of moderate Islam to materialize, dear Plato. The idea started as the need to present moderate Islam to the moderacy-hungry West became too strong. Quite a recent subterfuge then.

> But I think it is a brilliant idea, a good beginning.

I don't think so.

> If over time Muslims can accept this idea they would be free of the rock of oppressive Islamic theology pinning them down. There will have to be many a Muslim Sisyphus before the rock is worn to a pebble.

You have visibly forgotten the point of the original Greek myth. Sisyphus' stone is never worn to a pebble. It's an eternally useless toil. This particular punishment was invented for Sisyphus because of his hubris. He as a mortal believed that was cleverer than Zeus. If you change "Zeus" for "history" the same punsihment awaits those who believe they can outwit history. Moderate Islam is un-historical.

"Being Turkish without being Islamic is rather a strange combination to my mind..."

> A nineteenth century European or American without being Christian would also have been a strange combination.

How do you mean ? What you say applies to the middle ages . In the 19th century we had many free-thinkers of whom we may be so proud. We're the only civilization with atheists and agnostics as a respectable class we owe much to.

> From this post of yours not much of the Ataturk's Islamic credentials is visible.

Well, Moslems are so ungrateful. He did more for their advancement that Mehmed II and yet they give him no credentials...

> I would think if there were more Ataturks rather than Khomeinis, Turaibis, Saddams and Gaddafys in the Islamic world we would all be better off.

I have to correct you : "We would be either all exterminated as all Ataturks are necessarily genocidal or Islamized." All the non-Turks (excepting a dwindling group of Greeks in Constantinople and on Imbros and Tendos ) that remained in Turkey after 1922 were forced to embrace Islam. Omar Asan - one of such Greek Moslems - in his book " The culture of Pontus" published in 1996 estimates there there are still c. 300 000 Greek speaking Moslems in Turkey. For his views the "secularist" Kemalists sent him to prison.

> It would put an end the dar al harb and dar al Islam schizophrenia of the Muslims."....

Would it ? Wouldn't it rather give a new meaning to this schizophrenia with a new caliph in "secular" clothes , so to speak.

> It is constructed and works according to a totally different civilizational blueprint , if I may put it so.

"There is not much of civilisational content in Islam as a religion.

I wouldn't say that. Islam dominates and permeats and forms all life of every Moslem individual and every Moslem social entity . It creates necessarily a civilization if you are ready to accept the fact that Islam as a religion defines and makes civilization and not vice versa. So "Islamic civilization" is a quite precise term. It would be better to say "Civilizational Islam". ("Civilizational" is a value-neutral term here.)

> There were and are civilised Muslims in spite of Islam.

Yes there are , but not in our meaning of "civilization" as something value-positive. In this meaning all Moslems are "civilized" . (Again "civilized" not in the sense of being "compatible with the Western civilization").

The civilisational content can only increase over time.

Or decrease.

> The civilizationall content of the world seems to increase over time, somewhat like entropy.

Are you sure of your metaphor , Plato ? Entropy is a property of this universe that entails that order everywhere decreases and disorder in this universe increases over time. So you sentence sounds "The civilizational disorder of the world seems to increase" . Did you really mean that ?

> The order of ideologies, religions and cultures give way to the disorder of democracy (individualism over collectivism).

This theory reminds me of another one where "the end of history" after the victory of American-style democracy was proclaimed. You can believe in it but history goes on as it did before. It doesn't want to come to an end as the theory prescribed it to do.

You can believe that individualism increases universally and replaces collectivism but Islam goes on aggressively and herd-like as ever before. It hardly confirms your optmistic belief.


Note: Opinions expressed in comments are those of the authors alone and not necessarily those of Daniel Pipes. Original writing only, please. Comments are screened and in some cases edited before posting. Reasoned disagreement is welcome but not comments that are scurrilous, off-topic, commercial, disparaging religions, or otherwise inappropriate. For complete regulations, see the "Guidelines for Reader Comments".

Submit a comment on this item

Submitting....

<< Previous Comment      Next Comment >>

Reader comments (2097) on this item

Title Commenter Date Thread
George Orwell : "If there was hope, it must lie in the proles." [82 words]mythJan 17, 2010 20:20167454
How the West Could Lose [168 words]AnneSep 20, 2008 10:59138894
Interesting point of view... [85 words]TousifOct 21, 2009 02:53138894
how the west could lose [78 words]jamesJun 21, 2010 23:48138894
4How the West could lose. I think you will be surprised at the final outcome. response to James. [101 words]Anne-USAJun 23, 2010 16:43138894
how the west could lost - response to Anne [67 words]jamesJun 24, 2010 01:12138894
How the West Lost- There will be evil in the last days, we expect rough times. response to James [354 words]Anne- USAJun 24, 2010 19:26138894
the left wing must be stopped and exposed [36 words]stefanoMar 4, 2008 00:21121684
The Leftwing must be stopped and exposed-----by Stephano [345 words]DebbieJul 20, 2008 10:16121684
Really America, really? [49 words]JasnaDec 26, 2008 20:14121684
SUNNI QARADAWI AND BROTHERHOOD OFFER OLIVE BRANCH TO SHIITES - IN JIHAD FOR IRAN [258 words]Sofa SogoodOct 20, 2007 12:11112001
how many more must die... before we all see ? [180 words]Phil GreendOct 6, 2007 18:51110560
We need to put aside political correctness and discuss Islam [365 words]Dennis GravesSep 11, 2007 15:22108556
counter thought... [123 words]donvanOct 18, 2007 09:24108556
1ISLAM NOT A RELIGION OF PEACE. [3 words]Nina NiaziOct 19, 2007 19:24108556
We, the People. [122 words]Linda HaslamOct 20, 2007 00:16108556
right on brother! [375 words]kid berthaNov 5, 2007 15:19108556
islam not a religon of peace [158 words]Nina niaziNov 20, 2007 10:06108556
Brits deserve it!!! [186 words]JaladhiNov 20, 2007 20:22108556
2Islam: Religion of Peace? [85 words]Linda HaslamNov 27, 2007 09:42108556
1ISLAM NOT A RELIGION OF PEACE [207 words]nina niaziDec 2, 2007 17:40108556
God's children??? [139 words]Linda HaslamDec 6, 2007 11:11108556
1Jaladhi get an education old chap! [177 words]Leven-TorresApr 14, 2008 09:04108556
1try to learn scripture first [36 words]johnMay 18, 2008 05:02108556
1Don't misquote the Qur'an please. [832 words]KeithJul 22, 2008 18:22108556
islam excuses [2162 words]paul dunnNov 28, 2008 17:42108556
don't make any illusions [122 words]SunaJan 18, 2010 15:26108556
Ignorance: a dangerous thing [78 words]HamiyetMay 6, 2012 16:07108556
The War that we are Fighting [1925 words]Major DaveMay 23, 2007 17:3894113
My average American's opinion [768 words]kid berthaJun 12, 2007 16:1994113
So what is your solution? [1942 words]Major DaveJun 12, 2007 23:5394113
misunderstood [1256 words]kid berthaJun 14, 2007 11:1894113
My Respect [341 words]MichelAug 25, 2007 15:0694113
Oh, boy......... [76 words]Nick4693Sep 13, 2007 19:5294113
ISLAM NOT A RELIGION OF PEACE. [156 words]Nina NiaziOct 19, 2007 16:3694113
1Nina is correct. [432 words]kid berthaNov 5, 2007 14:4394113
ISLAM NOT A RELIGION OF PEACE [114 words]NinaNov 7, 2007 18:1994113
bravo [110 words]kcOct 21, 2009 01:0394113
Islam is not a relgion of Peace [20 words]sahilApr 10, 2011 13:5694113
2Monotheism vs Polytheism [225 words]IndianMay 17, 2007 03:5993309
Very right but still slightly off. [140 words]True-IndianSep 22, 2007 11:2693309
what is the truth? [51 words]najeebSep 15, 2009 09:1293309
Shiites [59 words]Dr Erich MeyerMay 8, 2007 23:5892175
Why US should attack Islamic Iran now ??? [642 words]ShivaMay 4, 2007 10:1591639
1Finally a factual message has been posted [372 words]kid berthaMay 5, 2007 09:3291639
1Right on! [332 words]Nick4693Sep 13, 2007 22:5291639
there's no why! [84 words]SunaJan 18, 2010 15:3691639
Plato [302 words]SohailApr 22, 2007 06:2090156
To Sohail: All mixed up [210 words]PlatoApr 23, 2007 08:4390156
So why should the West be the winner???? [2 words]aliApr 16, 2007 10:0089384
Answers for Ali [93 words]Noah WilkApr 19, 2007 18:3889384
how i see it [74 words]warnerApr 20, 2007 01:0189384
Ali your answer is in the Taliban video [99 words]PlatoApr 22, 2007 01:5889384
Three words for you [3 words]RJMay 1, 2007 00:0889384
How the West could lose: Reply to Mr.Ali. [47 words]Jaisingh ThakurJul 13, 2007 00:1689384
Why [35 words]aliJul 21, 2007 14:3489384
No... [93 words]adfJul 20, 2008 15:1789384
1why most of iranian hate arabs and islam? [17 words]persianDec 16, 2008 17:3189384
iranians hate arabs [4 words]joeSep 11, 2009 17:5189384
To Be the Big Dog or Not [628 words]MichaelApr 11, 2007 11:4989023
A muslim duty [581 words]moderate MuslimApr 7, 2007 00:0088762
Reality check and fantasy [50 words]dhimmi no moreApr 7, 2007 18:1488762
make no sense [14 words]moderate MuslimApr 8, 2007 22:2288762
Yes I read it in Arabic a language that you do not know [27 words]dhimmi no moreApr 9, 2007 18:0988762
Honest answers, please! [343 words]Nick4693Sep 11, 2007 19:5788762
Now one question [106 words]moderate MuslimApr 6, 2007 23:3388757
M&M and his bogus context again and Q9:4 or 5 if you wish [53 words]dhimmi no moreApr 7, 2007 18:5188757
i dont even know [228 words]a muslim americanMar 27, 2007 22:1888086
Our dear M&M and Islamic meltdown part deux [19 words]dhimmi no moreMar 28, 2007 17:1588086
1A NORMAL MUSLIM... [341 words]DONVANApr 5, 2007 14:0488086
oil and water [86 words]todd morrisonOct 16, 2007 23:2588086
wow.... [51 words]moderate MuslimMar 27, 2007 15:3388065
It says ya ayuha al-nass! [105 words]dhimmi no moreMar 29, 2007 17:5788065
dhimmi, READ YOUR OWN EVIDENCE FIRST [225 words]moderate MuslimMar 30, 2007 19:3088065
For Our dear M&M and his bogus arabic and the Qur'an really says that islam is the religion of the Arabs only and you ain't one [718 words]dhimmi no moreApr 2, 2007 19:4188065
The poor Arabic translation of Picktall another wannabe Arab! [446 words]dhimmi no moreApr 3, 2007 07:2688065
For our dear M&m and argument from silence! And Islam is indeed the religion of the Hijazi Arabs as per Q14:4 and you ain't one [30 words]dhimmi no moreApr 5, 2007 18:1488065
One more time pt 2 [243 words]moderate MuslimMar 26, 2007 19:2788016
fantasy world of islam [286 words]susanMar 28, 2007 15:2688016
Still in denial, "Moderate" Muslim [357 words]Noah WilkMar 28, 2007 16:5988016
yeah ok [26 words]moderate MuslimMar 28, 2007 19:1988016
3Why are you making excuses, Moderate Muslim? [322 words]Noah WilkMar 31, 2007 17:5688016
were you at the rallies? [40 words]susanApr 1, 2007 10:0388016
Ok, so What? [11 words]moderate MuslimApr 2, 2007 19:0388016
the usual cheap excuse [11 words]susanApr 3, 2007 02:5688016
Ignorance is no excuse [168 words]Noah WilkApr 5, 2007 14:5188016
I will not stand for hate. [42 words]moderate MuslimApr 6, 2007 23:3688016
Moderate Muslim corners himself! [393 words]Noah WilkApr 7, 2007 16:2488016
Misunderstanding [311 words]moderate MuslimApr 7, 2007 21:1588016
easy [51 words]susanApr 8, 2007 07:1888016
the 1960's [27 words]moderate MuslimApr 8, 2007 22:2488016
not an "image" problem [297 words]susanApr 9, 2007 07:2088016
Speaking of hate and the Qur'an [83 words]dhimmi no moreApr 9, 2007 18:1988016
Why not burn effigies? [80 words]Noah WilkApr 9, 2007 20:5288016
noah [62 words]moderate MuslimApr 10, 2007 21:4888016
Back to Morous (12 seconds on the shot clock) [3677 words]moderate MuslimMar 25, 2007 22:1287974
Our dear M&M and cut and paste jobs Paki/Arabic and the bogus hadith! [522 words]dhimmi no moreMar 27, 2007 20:2387974
an addendum and my source for the hadith literary criticism [20 words]dhimmi no moreMar 28, 2007 07:0687974
My compliments to the sheik (morous 360 dunk in moderate's face, the crowd goes wild) [1370 words]MOROUSMar 28, 2007 16:3987974
To Moderate Muslim: [894 words]PlatoMar 30, 2007 04:2287974
No, I respect many [89 words]moderate MuslimMar 30, 2007 19:2587974
To Moderate Muslim: But Allah hates other religions [234 words]PlatoApr 1, 2007 02:0587974
numbers matter [54 words]susanApr 1, 2007 10:1387974
Here's your answer Plato [129 words]moderate MuslimApr 2, 2007 19:0987974
heh, ok right, that is so bogus [40 words]moderate MuslimApr 2, 2007 19:2487974
let's start from... [46 words]susanApr 3, 2007 03:1587974
And speaking of bogus! [86 words]dhimmi no moreApr 4, 2007 17:2987974
your answer [535 words](moderate) Muslim (though all real Muslims are moderate)Apr 5, 2007 22:0887974
christian arabs are first victims of muslims [243 words]susanApr 8, 2007 07:2687974
Islam and Terror [1398 words]moderate Muslim AmericanMar 22, 2007 17:4387720
Hamza Yusuf a Muslim scholar? LOL! [187 words]dhimmi no moreMar 23, 2007 19:2287720
2Nothing's more fun than debunking "Muslim Logic" [2959 words]Noah WilkMar 23, 2007 21:1887720
To Moderate Muslim: It is just a wish-list you have given us [2577 words]PlatoMar 24, 2007 06:4087720
M&M and David Chappelle exposed [147 words]dhimmi no moreMar 25, 2007 09:1487720
high muslim clerics agree with bin laden [394 words]susanMar 27, 2007 15:2487720
ok? [44 words]moderate Muslim-Mar 27, 2007 22:0087720
you just proved how ignorant islamphobes are [82 words]Islamophobic ignoranceMar 28, 2007 15:2687720
Precisely why we condemn you [380 words]Noah WilkMar 28, 2007 17:1887720
The little olive institute [32 words]dhimmi no moreMar 28, 2007 17:4587720
Our dear M&M and Yusuf Hamza's ancestry [25 words]dhimmi no moreMar 28, 2007 17:5187720
thanks.. [8 words]moderate MuslimMar 28, 2007 19:2087720
Islamophobia, really? [298 words]dhimmi no moreMar 29, 2007 07:2287720
Because , the most comfortable position for a coward is to struggle to be portrayed a "moderate" (&) Moslem. [611 words]Ynna(tchkah)Mar 29, 2007 13:4087720
poor reply [71 words]susanMar 29, 2007 13:4287720
like you said something... [91 words]susanMar 29, 2007 13:5087720
we need ears to listen and eyes to see [252 words]Islamophobia no more...Mar 29, 2007 16:3887720
chechnya is sufi [20 words]susanApr 1, 2007 10:1487720
I dont think you get it (Ynna (tchkah) [129 words]moderate MuslimApr 2, 2007 19:2387720
and why? [41 words]moderate MuslimApr 2, 2007 19:2787720
Our dear Islamophobia no more and his little diatribes [48 words]dhimmi no moreApr 2, 2007 19:5487720
Congratulations for not going to work to CAIR [108 words]Ynna (tchkah)Apr 3, 2007 03:0287720
skewed perception of Islamophobes [138 words]Islamophobia no moreApr 3, 2007 03:0387720
africa's fault is african [146 words]susanApr 3, 2007 03:2287720
an Islamophobe [259 words]Islamophobia no moreApr 3, 2007 03:3287720
cair wants sharia [39 words]susanApr 3, 2007 03:3987720
More diatribes from our dear INM aka M&M [103 words]dhimmi no moreApr 3, 2007 18:4387720
YOU DON'T GET THE POINT [19 words]moderate MuslimApr 3, 2007 20:2787720
For our dear INM and what is an Islamophobe part deux [343 words]dhimmi no moreApr 4, 2007 07:5387720
no matter how you turn it [67 words]susanApr 4, 2007 14:5187720
nobody is irrationally vilifying islam [234 words]susanApr 4, 2007 15:0887720
sharia allows slavery [18 words]susanApr 4, 2007 17:3987720
Dropping names and Si, comprende mucho! [111 words]dhimmi no moreApr 4, 2007 17:4887720
fallacy of bias history-reading [108 words]Islamophobia no moreApr 5, 2007 01:5987720
islamophobia, the stupidest word ever invented [124 words]susanApr 5, 2007 16:3087720
Cair and other people [171 words]moderate MuslimApr 5, 2007 22:1587720
CAIR [374 words]Noah WilkApr 6, 2007 14:5587720
Why then do you support it? [290 words]Noah WilkApr 6, 2007 15:0387720
cair = sharia = stone age [70 words]susanApr 6, 2007 15:1987720
Noah [124 words]moderate MuslimApr 6, 2007 23:4087720
M&M CAIR (big time LOL) and his flawed logic! [344 words]dhimmi no moreApr 7, 2007 08:3787720
Yes, Moderate Muslim, you ARE responsible! [516 words]Noah WilkApr 7, 2007 16:4587720
ROTFL [44 words]dhimmi no moreApr 7, 2007 18:3787720
al-Shari3a [10 words]dhimmi no moreApr 7, 2007 18:3987720
CAIR and mockery [26 words]dhimmi no moreApr 8, 2007 11:4087720
i'll see [37 words]moderate MuslimApr 8, 2007 22:3487720
Why aren't moderate muslims standing up? [55 words]Bob SterlingAug 20, 2007 23:5187720
why should the west win anyways if it continues with its current programme of warmongering? [434 words]cocoMay 6, 2009 12:0187720
islam & terror [627 words]John EdwardsOct 27, 2009 15:1387720
so here are you answers more if you want em [29 words]moderate MuslimMar 20, 2007 19:3287302
Moderate Muslim fails again! [1415 words]Noah WilkMar 21, 2007 15:3287302
mauritania has got legal slavery, allowed in islam [15 words]susanMar 21, 2007 16:5787302
MM [230 words]JaladhiMar 21, 2007 18:0187302
handshake with Kuffar? "Muslim debate schemes" and other sordid matters! [599 words]dhimmi no moreMar 22, 2007 07:5187302
morocco 50% literacy rate [18 words]susanMar 22, 2007 10:0387302
"Muslim debate schemes"! part deux [452 words]dhimmi no moreMar 24, 2007 14:1087302
Dhimmi No More - defenders of the faith have left town!!! [40 words]JaladhiMar 26, 2007 16:5687302
Your answer Plato (which is a really bad name for you, because it dishonores someone who actually thought [169 words]Moderate MuslimMar 20, 2007 19:1887298
Was the post for me? [45 words]PlatoMar 21, 2007 08:3087298
Try paying attention, Moderate Muslim [570 words]Noah WilkMar 21, 2007 17:5587298
blatantly clear? LOL [178 words]dhimmi no moreMar 21, 2007 19:5087298
To MM: Would Mohammed be a good name for me? [130 words]PlatoMar 22, 2007 14:0087298
you guys hate the truth, dontcha [23 words]moderate MuslimMar 22, 2007 17:1087298
clarification [36 words]Moderate MuslimMar 22, 2007 17:1287298
No, Im not beyond help, although I dont need much [73 words]moderate MuslimMar 22, 2007 17:1587298
Free will in islam? LOL [379 words]dhimmi no moreMar 24, 2007 08:1587298
you like lies don'tcha? [148 words]susanMar 25, 2007 10:2187298
To Syed [17 words]moderate MuslimMar 16, 2007 19:3086570
LOL syed is asking for caliphate [8 words]susanMar 18, 2007 10:1686570
Syed? LOL He has no credibility! [172 words]dhimmi no moreMar 18, 2007 12:5086570
Syeds are not Iranians?? [83 words]JaladhiMar 19, 2007 17:1886570
What? [35 words]moderate MuslimMar 19, 2007 19:2486570
For our dear M&M and islam [73 words]dhimmi no moreMar 20, 2007 17:4886570
To Moderate Muslim: Spreading Islam by avoiding unpleasant facts [389 words]PlatoMar 22, 2007 13:3586570
Sure, Syed's the perfect choice [230 words]JeffMar 27, 2007 18:2386570
i wasnt..... [77 words]moderate MuslimMar 27, 2007 22:0286570
THE JOKE'S ON YOU (DHIMMI) [32 words]moderate MuslimMar 16, 2007 19:2786568
And your point is? [244 words]dhimmi no moreMar 18, 2007 12:4086568
You dont know me, you dont even care [110 words]moderate MuslimMar 19, 2007 19:3686568
avoiding the sex slaves matter [52 words]susanMar 20, 2007 16:1186568
Uno Questiono por legion of doom [36 words]moderate MuslimMar 16, 2007 19:2586566
To Moderate Muslim: Global warming a belief? [63 words]PlatoMar 17, 2007 23:1186566
The Official Stance of the Legion of Doom On Global Warming [59 words]Noah WilkMar 18, 2007 10:1786566
youre just not answering [43 words]moderate MuslimMar 19, 2007 19:2986566
heheh, thanks plato [25 words]moderate MuslimMar 19, 2007 19:3086566
You were indeed given an answer [209 words]Noah WilkMar 20, 2007 15:2986566
They're not scared [107 words]Noah WilkMar 20, 2007 15:3686566
sex slaves conspiracy [101 words]susanMar 20, 2007 16:1486566
?? [72 words]moderate MuslimMar 22, 2007 17:1986566
Yes, you are on trial [223 words]Noah WilkMar 23, 2007 18:5786566
islam is not on trial, it's already convicted [14 words]susanMar 25, 2007 10:2686566
heh please [45 words]moderate MuslimMar 26, 2007 19:1686566
Spain and Arabian imperialism and justifying the absurd [69 words]dhimmi no moreMar 27, 2007 20:4886566
spain? islam flourished? [2978 words]susanMar 28, 2007 02:5786566
Islam is peace [103 words]moderate MuslimMar 14, 2007 21:3686334
disproved [331 words]susanMar 15, 2007 16:2486334
Islam and violence and silence [116 words]dhimmi no moreMar 18, 2007 17:3486334
uh NO [7 words]moderate MuslimMar 19, 2007 19:2586334
Our dear M&M has never been to a madrassa! [81 words]dhimmi no moreMar 24, 2007 14:2286334
ALARMING NEWS - POLYGAMOUS MUSLIM IMMIGRANTS ARE WELCOME IN US WITH UP TO FOUR WIVES [211 words]Sofa SogoodMar 14, 2007 14:4586290
A Peaceful Muslim Country (oh my) [259 words]moderate MuslimMar 11, 2007 21:2185929
...muslim [492 words]susanMar 12, 2007 18:3085929
very poor example [255 words]susanMar 12, 2007 18:4085929
Dave Chapelle? and who the heck is he? And why should we like him or hate him for this matter [235 words]dhimmi no moreMar 12, 2007 19:3985929
MALAYSIA A PEACEFUL MUSLIM COUNTRY???LOL [110 words]MOROUSMar 13, 2007 16:5385929
Malaysia is Saudi Arabia of East [142 words]JaladhiMar 13, 2007 19:1385929
Talking points, pillars, quibbles, quotes, examples, and some words of wisdom from the kennedys. [972 words]moderate MuslimMar 13, 2007 19:3285929
MY EMAILS? [13 words]muslimMar 13, 2007 21:2385929
Malaysia is Saudi Arabia of East - Pt. 2 [133 words]JaladhiMar 14, 2007 16:2785929
The good ole pillars of islam! [84 words]dhimmi no moreMar 14, 2007 16:4385929
kennedy quote? [659 words]susanMar 14, 2007 16:4485929
why does everyone not get it [32 words]moderate MuslimMar 14, 2007 19:4085929
huh?? [339 words]morousMar 15, 2007 12:2285929
Our dear M&M and you ain't Muqatil [61 words]dhimmi no moreMar 15, 2007 20:0485929
To Morous-Clarify a few things [291 words]moderate MuslimMar 15, 2007 21:2585929
your clarification Moderate [664 words]MorousMar 17, 2007 11:4685929
one clarification: malaysia has got sharia law [41 words]susanMar 18, 2007 10:1985929
literal interpretation [68 words]susanMar 18, 2007 10:2285929
Reply to Reply : morous [116 words]moderate MuslimMar 18, 2007 17:1585929
women as humans? [31 words]susanMar 20, 2007 04:5185929
It's Back in your court MODERATE [616 words]MorousMar 20, 2007 13:2585929
Malaysia? [171 words]surjApr 20, 2007 22:3485929
More Answers (Aisha) (ra) [2787 words]moderate MuslimMar 11, 2007 21:0685919
aisha the child [103 words]susanMar 12, 2007 18:3385919
To Moderate Muslim: Hiding the shame of Aisha's age and a Maulana abrogates 9:29 [989 words]PlatoMar 13, 2007 01:1385919
3A'isha and real history! and playing with dolls! [648 words]dhimmi no moreMar 13, 2007 07:2885919
Lies will not change historical age of Aisha at the time of her marriage [157 words]JaladhiMar 20, 2007 15:4385919
The Ultimate Post- No Hiding, No Crying, Just Answers [8353 words]moderate MuslimMar 8, 2007 22:1385330
I'm cherry picking Moderate Muslim's huge post [2178 words]Noah WilkMar 9, 2007 04:1485330
For our dear M&M and his bogus command of Islamic theology [454 words]dhimmi no moreMar 9, 2007 18:0085330
To Moderate Muslim: Ethical basis of Islam and the thrashing of women by men [2001 words]PlatoMar 10, 2007 07:3085330
For our dear Moderate Msulim and what is really a moderate Muslim?And other sordid matters [885 words]dhimmi no moreMar 10, 2007 07:4085330
More Answers-To Dhimmi [293 words]moderate MuslimMar 10, 2007 13:2085330
Our dear M&M and he is really a "bait"? and Jihad or holy war revisited part deux [653 words]dhimmi no moreMar 10, 2007 14:1585330
moderate [592 words]susanMar 10, 2007 15:0185330
For our dear M&M and Q2:216 ...part one! [832 words]dhimmi no moreMar 11, 2007 09:2885330
dhimmi ... [26 words]susanMar 11, 2007 10:3985330
For our dear M&M and Q9:4 part deux! [541 words]dhimmi no moreMar 11, 2007 14:4185330
moderate Muslim [61 words]moderate MuslimMar 11, 2007 17:4285330
Condemnable Offenses. Controlling Men [91 words]moderate MuslimMar 11, 2007 17:4585330
you have no idea what a race is again [13 words]susanMar 12, 2007 03:3885330
M&M and more fantasy [262 words]dhimmi no moreMar 12, 2007 07:5285330
To Moderate Muslim: Fight to make your neighbours submit to Allah [179 words]PlatoMar 12, 2007 10:1585330
response to moderate muslim [555 words]morousMar 12, 2007 16:2585330
invented by modern people? [111 words]susanMar 12, 2007 18:3085330
yeah, so? [97 words]moderate MuslimMar 12, 2007 19:2485330
To Moderate Muslim: On rape and chopping off hands [583 words]PlatoMar 12, 2007 23:1885330
Uh no [17 words]moderate MuslimMar 13, 2007 19:3385330
the joke is on you morous [36 words]moderate MuslimMar 13, 2007 19:3685330
Hypocritical Muslim [56 words]Noah WilkMar 13, 2007 20:4385330
origins [183 words]dhimmi no moreMar 13, 2007 21:5885330
Racism! Really? [147 words]dhimmi no moreMar 14, 2007 12:3185330
i am 100% correct [57 words]susanMar 14, 2007 16:2285330
More evidence [47 words]dhimmi no moreMar 14, 2007 16:5685330
Hypocrisy - thy name is.... [46 words]JaladhiMar 14, 2007 17:3185330
Jesus is god? [26 words]moderate muslimMar 14, 2007 19:3185330
not quite making sense - at all [129 words]moderate MuslimMar 14, 2007 19:3785330
lies [30 words]moderate MuslimMar 14, 2007 19:3885330
His words? [226 words]dhimmi no moreMar 15, 2007 07:3985330
Muslims suppress free debate on anti Semitism at Leeds University, UK [163 words]DelboyMar 15, 2007 09:4985330
MM [135 words]susanMar 15, 2007 16:1485330
2My dear M&M and i'm glad that you asked and the Qur'an really says that Jesus is God! [93 words]dhimmi no moreMar 15, 2007 19:5985330
Uh what? [38 words]moderate MuslimMar 16, 2007 19:2185330
MM - Read Dhimmi No More's(who knows Arabic) posts to understand Q9:4 [92 words]JaladhiMar 19, 2007 17:4885330
Respond to what? [58 words]dhimmi no moreMar 19, 2007 20:1485330
For our dear M&M and the Qur'an really says that jesus is God and the bogus tawheed [140 words]dhimmi no moreMar 20, 2007 07:5185330
THAT'S NOT WHAT THE KORAN SAYS [22 words]MOROUSMar 20, 2007 14:0285330
The fundamentally faulty logic of the person called dhimmi no more [201 words]moderate MuslimMar 20, 2007 19:0185330
Astaghfirullah is M&M's lame answer [239 words]dhimmi no moreMar 23, 2007 07:2885330
Flat? Hardly [31 words]Moderate MuslimMar 25, 2007 21:5385330
ONCE AGAIN MODERATE, THE KORAN CONTRADICTS YOU [172 words]MOROUSMar 28, 2007 17:0885330
Hand Chopping and Adultery [74 words]Mukhtar Ahmed KashifJul 30, 2009 12:4785330
Why I am proud to be a member of the Legion of Doom! [354 words]Noah WilkMar 8, 2007 21:0985321
The wake up call [15 words]Moderate MuslimFeb 26, 2007 16:2579077
You're talking, but you're not saying anything, Moderate Muslim [499 words]Noah WilkFeb 26, 2007 20:3579077
PEACEFUL NATION? YEAH, COMPARED TO THE HUNS [53 words]Moderate MuslimFeb 28, 2007 07:3279077
homework for moderate muslim [155 words]susanFeb 28, 2007 15:3479077
MM, you very well described actions of Muslims [98 words]JaladhiFeb 28, 2007 17:4279077
mob muslim contradiction [97 words]susanFeb 28, 2007 18:1079077
to mod.muslim [145 words]AnnaFeb 28, 2007 19:3479077
Susan [507 words]Moderate MuslimFeb 28, 2007 20:3479077
For our dear M&M and more fantasy [371 words]dhimmi no moreMar 1, 2007 06:0279077
peace.. [125 words]donvanMar 1, 2007 09:1879077
YES [87 words]Moderate MuslimMar 1, 2007 19:5079077
Strive to forgive what? [15 words]dhimmi no moreMar 2, 2007 17:2279077
don't believe you [65 words]susanMar 3, 2007 12:4879077
Response to Susan [153 words]moderate MuslimMar 5, 2007 20:0779077
educated fanatics.. [14 words]donvanMar 6, 2007 15:0079077
Anti-Semitic propaganda from our "Moderate" Muslim [340 words]Noah WilkMar 7, 2007 12:5179077
so many mistakes again [263 words]susanMar 7, 2007 15:0279077
NOT ANTI-SEMITIC [177 words]moderate muslimMar 7, 2007 17:4279077

Comment on this item

Name
Email Address (optional)
Title of Comments
Comments:

Note: Opinions expressed in comments are those of the authors alone and not necessarily those of Daniel Pipes. Original writing only, please. Comments are screened and in some cases edited before posting. Reasoned disagreement is welcome but not comments that are scurrilous, off-topic, commercial, disparaging religions, or otherwise inappropriate. For complete regulations, see the "Guidelines for Reader Comments".

See recent outstanding comments.

ADVERTISEMENTS

eXTReMe Tracker

Follow Daniel Pipes

Facebook   Twitter   RSS   Join Mailing List

All materials written by Daniel Pipes on this site © 1968-2014 Daniel Pipes. Email: daniel.pipes@gmail.com

You can help support Daniel Pipes' work by making a tax-deductible donation to the Middle East Forum. Daniel J. Pipes