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To Moderate Muslim: It is just a wish-list you have given us

Reader comment on item: How the West Could Lose
in response to reader comment: Islam and Terror

Submitted by Plato (India), Mar 24, 2007 at 06:40

Moderate Muslim what you and Hamza Yusuf have said about Islam is the wish-list of all of us. We wish Islam will transform itself to what you claim it is. We know it is not. It will transform itself only when moderate muslims stop using frankinscence and myrrh to hide the smell of terror and the stench of violent antagonism towards anyone who is not a Muslim openly displayed in the Koran. Muslims will gain the respect of the rest of the world when they admit to the many unforgivable flaws in their prophet. It will be a pale imitation of the blood and thunder Islam we have now.

We need to examine what you have said in detail.

You wrote

"Here is my opinion of Islam and terror, once and for all."Bukhari.
Volume 1, Book 7, Number 331:

Narrated Jabir bin 'Abdullah:

The Prophet said, "I have been given five things which were not given to any one else before me.

1. Allah made me victorious by awe, (by His frightening my enemies) for a distance of one month's journey. ....

".....Islam cannot be adequately represented by any nation, for any nation can be led astray, and the true Islam is the Islam practiced by Muhammad (pbuh) and his followers...."Can a whole nation be led astray? Yes. And who is leading them astray? Allah himself! Yes, Allah seems to specialise in leading nations astray and destroying them as he repeatedly and proudly claims.

017.016 - 17 When We decide to destroy a population, We (first) send a definite order to those among them who are given the good things of this life and yet transgress; so that the word is proved true against them: then (it is) We destroy them utterly. How many generations have We destroyed after Noah? and enough is thy Lord to note and see the sins of His servants.

015.004 -05 Never did We destroy a population that had not a term decreed and assigned beforehand. Neither can a people anticipate its term, nor delay it.

028.059 Nor was thy Lord the one to destroy a population until He had sent to its centre a messenger, rehearsing to them Our Signs; nor are We going to destroy a population except when its members practise iniquity.

Here is Allah is in all his genocidal glory. He destroys a population utterly after sending them an order (to do what?) and when they obey that order the word is proved true (this would mean that those among them given the good things of life are orderd by Allah to sin). In 15.4-5 you see Allah destroying a population for whom destruction was foreordained. In 26:208 and 28:59 He sends warners and destroys them if they do not obey.

Note: When We decide to destroy a population...

You see Allah behaving like a sadistic psychopath. He states explicitly that he creates populations that he has decided in advance to destroy utterly. He also sends them an order to misbehave. Why is that? Allah wants to fool himself into believing that the enforced misbehaviour gives him an excuse to destroy them. And why sadistic? You must have read the verse where he takes delight in replacing the kaffir's pain sensing skin again and again when it melts in the heat of hell. And also the verse where he gleefully informs you that unbelievers will have molten brass poured over them and putrid water forced down their dry throats.

And who are these warners he sends. From a reading of the Bible and the Koran they are ordinary people who suddenly announce to all who care to listen that they have been visited by god or his messengers and been made into Prophets. Most people laughed in their faces as you would too Moderate Muslim if I told you Allah has abrogated his decision to end prophethood with Mohammed and decided to send me, Plato, as a new warner to humankind.

Because humans are natural born sceptics Allah has a field day hurling them into jahannum.

This would mean Allah has already decided to destroy the population. (Something wrong with the translation Moderate Muslim? Two other translators also say the same thing. PICKTHAL: And when We would destroy a township, SHAKIR: And when We wish to destroy a town, )

"...The main agenda I am talking about it is the agenda of Al Qaeda and other such terror groups to bring harm to those who they see as agressors or occupiers, as well as the citizens of those countries. In order to justfiy this, they took bits and pieces of the Quran and misconstrued them until they had propaganda to further their cause. They ignored, or subverted any verses which pertained to peace or justice,..."On the contrary, Moderate Muslim, Al Qaeda has understood the teachings of Mohammed and Islam correctly. Here what the Koran says:

002.216 : Fighting is enjoined on you, and it is an object of dislike to you; and it may be that you dislike a thing while it is good for you, and it may be that you love a thing while it is evil for you, and Allah knows, while you do not know.

Is the fighting enjoined on you a struggle with yourself?

009.029 Fight those who do not believe in Allah, nor in the latter day, nor do they prohibit what Allah and His Messenger have prohibited, nor follow the religion of truth, out of those who have been given the Book, until they pay the tax in acknowledgment of superiority and they are in a state of subjection.

I have picked this notorious verse from the Koran but I suggest that you read the whole of Al Tawba to understand Bin Laden. Read it thoroughly, including all the tafsirs you can lay your hands on, and post your comment on why you think Bin Laden has misconstrued or subverted this chapter of the Koran. I will point you to the one by Maududi (http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/quran/maududi/mau9.html). I have cut and pasted a few sentences from it below:

'..... In order to enable the Muslims to extend the influence of Islam outside Arabia, they were enjoined to crush with sword the non- Muslim powers and to force them to accept the sovereignty of the Islamic State. ....In order to prepare the Muslims for Jihad against the whole non-Muslim world, it was necessary to cure them even of that slight weakness of faith from which they were still suffering. For there could be no greater internal danger to the Islamic Community than the weakness of faith, especially where it was going to engage itself single-handed in a' conflict with the whole non-Muslim world....'

Moderate Muslim do you see why Bin Laden is right and your and Hamza Yusuf's understanding of Islam is flawed.Here is your statement: "Terrorism, an act which is intended in purpose to bring fear to others, is an un Islamic action. It goes against everything taught in the Quran."What do you have to say about the hadith I have quoted above about the prophet being made victorious with awe (frightening his enemies).

8:67 It is not for any prophet to have captives until he hath made slaughter in the land....

Allah is telling the Prophet to make a slaughter in the land. What could the object be except to terrorise?

59:2 He is the One who evicted those who disbelieved among the people of the scripture from their homes in a mass exodus. You never thought that they would leave, and they thought that their preparations would protect them from GOD. But then GOD came to them whence they never expected, and threw terror into their hearts. Thus, they abandoned their homes on their own volition, in addition to pressure from the believers.

Allah throws terror into the hearts of the Jews. And then has the dishonesty to claim that they left of their own volition and also due to pressure from the Muslims. How can Allah claim they left of their own volition when He terrorised them and the Muslims threatened them?"...And if these people indeed are Arabs, Muslims, they're obviously very sick people and I can't even look at it in religious terms. It's politics, tragic politics. There's no Islamic justification for any of it. It's like some misguided Irish using Catholicism as an excuse for blowing up English people...."That they are sick people I agree. For Al qaeda it is not politcs, it is religion. Remember Al Zarqawi's statement about their fight being for monotheism? And always you will find the perpetrators justifying their terror tactics with Islam. I have not come across any Irish claiming Catholicism as an excuse. If he did I am sure the Pope would excommunicate him. Fatwas fly fast and furious for the silliest of reasons but where are the fatwas against Bin Laden?

"You can't kill innocent people. There's no Islamic declaration of war against the United States. I think every Muslim country except Afghanistan has an embassy in this country. And in Islam, a country where you have embassies is not considered a belligerent country."Moderate Muslim what is 9:29 but a declaration of war against unbelievers? Or do you consider the United States is part of Dar ul Islam? Ask your friendly neighbourhood maulana whether not accepting the message of the Prophet is a form of rebellion against Allah ? Why is Hamza Yusuf indulging in dissimulation?

"I think that the Muslims -- and I really feel this strongly -- have to reject the discourse of anger.What you (and Hamza Yusuf) are saying is really strange Moderate Muslim. Your religion expects you to be angry with all kafirs, infidels, pagans, unbelievers. If you are not, what kind of Muslim are you. The whole of Islam is one angry statement against kufr. And the non-Muslim world is the world of kufrdom.

"...Because there is a lot of anger in the Muslim communities around the world about the oppressive conditions that many Muslims find themselves in..."Why should the Muslims be angry about oppressive conditions when they willingly accept many of those oppressive conditions. Islam wants to imprison half of humanity inside the home or in burqas when on the streets. Women are not allowed to play any useful role in most Islamic countries and that is not an imposition from the West but self imposed. Fifty per cent of possible contribution to their social and economic activities is not available to islamic nations. Women are condemned to servitude of men because the Koran says they are deficient in brain power. Muslims should direct their anger at themselves for allowing the suppression of fifty per cent of their human wealth. Oppression in the Muslim world will never end till the oppression of Muslim women ends.

"...And therefore we as Muslims have to ask the question, "How is it that our religious leadership has failed to reach these people with the true message of Islam?" Because the acts of these criminals have indicted an entire religion in the hearts and minds of millions...."That is a rhetorical question Hamza Yusuf asks implying that the true message is one of peace. He has not quoted any verses to prove it. I have quoted several aggressive verses which incites people to violence and terrorism.

"...One of the worst crimes in Islam is brigandry -- highway robbery, or today we'd say armed robbery -- because it disrupts the sense of well-being and security among civilians...."Really? Wasn't that exactly what your Prophet indulged in? Remember the Nahala incident which probably started off the highway robbery epidemic of the Muslims. At first the Prophet took the high moral ground and refused to accept the booty that was offered to him. But seeing the poverty of the Muslims in Medina their Allah gave Mohammed a revelation in which fighting and killing during the sacred months was allowed enabling the Prophet to take the one-fifth booty on offer from his raiding party.

002.217: They ask thee concerning fighting in the Prohibited Month. Say: "Fighting therein is a grave (offence); but graver is it in the sight of Allah to prevent access to the path of Allah, to deny Him, to prevent access to the Sacred Mosque, and drive out its members. Tumult and oppression are worse than slaughter. Nor will they cease fighting you until they turn you back from your faith if they can. And if any of you Turn back from their faith and die in unbelief, their works will bear no fruit in this life and in the Hereafter; they will be companions of the Fire and will abide therein."

And what was the much-hyped battle of Badr but the result of an attempt by the Muslims to rob Abu Sufyan's caravan? How did this attempted brigandry, highway robbery by the Muslims transorm itself to some sort of holy war for Islam in the writings of Arab historians? All those "martyrs"of Badr were nothing but brigands who got killed when the caravan owners fought back.

Also note Allah's double standards. He says a graver offence than fighting in the sacred months is preventing people from going to the sacred mosque and driving out its members. And what did the Prophet do as soon as he gained control of the sacred mosque. He did exactly the thing Allah has condemned as a graver sin than killing in the sacred months, he banned all members except Muslims from the sacred precincts of the mosque!"Imam Malik, an early Islamic legal authority, said that 60 years of oppression under an unjust ruler is better than one hour of anarchy."Now is it any wonder that Muslims allow themselves to be oppressed by kings and dictators? Since Muslims are up in arms everywhere where they are a minority it means that they are in rebellion and should be punished as per Islamic law which states that their limbs should be cut off at opposite ends just as the Banu Quraiza were supposedly punished according to Talmudic law for suspected treachery. Do you consider the governments in the Philippines, Thailand, Indian Kashmir legitimate. If yes then the Muslims caught rebelling should be punished according to Koranic law.

"When you see ignorant people in the streets, rejoicing -- the Prophet condemned it. It's rejoicing at the calamities of your enemies, and Islam prohibits that."Which rejoicing did the Prophet condemn? If Islam prohibits rejoicing at the calamities of one's enemies how is it that the Prophet gave praise to Allah when he succeeded in having his enemies, old men or nursing women, assasssinated? He even kept awake at night to hear news of the success of the assassins he had dispatched. On the killing of Asma Marwan the Prophet told her assassins 'You have helped God and his Apostle'.

You are a proud American citizen Moderate Muslim. Read this verse from the Koran:009.023 O ye who believe! take not for protectors your fathers and your brothers if they love infidelity above Faith: if any of you do so, they do wrong.

You as an American citizen are under the protection of an infidel nation when the Koran tells you not to have even the protection of your near relatives if they are unbelievers. Don't worry Moderate Muslim, you are in good company, that of your Prophet himself. He lived under the protection of his infidel uncle Abu Talib and hot footed it to Medina only after his death.

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Submitting....

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