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To Ianus - It boils down to just one difference of opinion

Reader comment on item: How the West Could Lose
in response to reader comment: Caught in the cross fire ... A glimpse from Moslem hell , Michel ?

Submitted by Michel (United States), Mar 4, 2007 at 14:08

Dear Ianus, Dobro u noz ( if memory serves me right - good evening?)

First of all, allow me to thank you for disagreeing with me, albeit never deteriorate to insulting or patronizing me.
here is what I call a constructive dialogue. That is fun, as it remains on a respectful level.
I will respond to your post and try to clarify some of your misconceptions about my viewpoint.

Well, Islamism is such a tainted subject. I try to perform all the necessary ablutions every time I deal with it but still its nastiness remains. ( My personal experience )

You obviously managed to strongly disagree with me, yet I did not consider your response as "nasty".

Thanks. I try to do my best. But still I know my defects and weak sides too well.

That quite actually does seem to be unusual, and very refreshing, "the other side" considered. This kind of humility I have only encountered with Plato so far, but most certainly not with Dhimmi, Noah or Susan - people who could never concede any point or admit their own limitations. That is exactly, why a discussion gets so tiresome, as they argue from an ivory throne of utter conviction of their own righteousness.

Nice to hear that. I come from a country that was once the home of most Jews (Poland).

I visited your country several times and encountered much warmth, friendliness and tolerance, even during the communistic period. The memory of the polish ghettos definitely has had a lasting impact.

I presume that as a Jew you must or should be be doubly critical of both.

I do not know, Ianus, if I am doubly critical or not. I do know that - in light of my personal upbringing and family history – I became extremely critical, as far as any form of indoctrination, fanaticism or even religion is concerned.
As children are imprinted mainly by their parents, I must honor my father at this time, who became my role model in terms of overcoming natural instincts of revenge and hatred. Never once heard him vilify the Germans as a whole. Never once heard him demonizing the Moslem world, even though I remember him being a passionate supporter of Israel during the 6 days war. (weren't we all? )

Anyhow – my father did evidently suffer serious traumas, as he raised us in Switzerland as Roman Catholics in order to ensure that what happened to his family and friends could never happen to his children. As a practicing ( in secret) Jew, that was a terrible situation for him and ate him up inside.

The above is the reason, why I instinctively and reflexively oppose any effort from any side to "spread the gospel". As soon as someone tells me what I should do, what I should believe in, I will instantly become suspicious and will not let it stand. In business and personal I believe solely in leading by example - I try to refrain from exercising pressure, nor will I allow anyone to pressure me into any kind of action or thinking.

Whatever you mean , I hope that the subject matter or essence of any issue is your overriding consideration. I mean thereby that truth and democracy are a little different notions.

Republican with democratic stands means in my book, that I consider myself as an independent thinker and not slave to any party dogma or platform. As new US Citizen, I registered with the Republican Party, because I happen to support more of their objectives, yet for instance support the woman's right to choose and utter separation of Church and State, which happen to be democratic objectives, as far as standard US party lines are concerned.

As far as truth is concerned, I am a relativist. Truth is oftentimes in the eye of the beholder and, other than in mathematics, I can not find the ultimate truth in pretty much any topic. Especially when opinions or politics are concerned, reality ( truth) is always found somewhere in the grey zone in between positions. Noah, Dhimmi and Susan "own" the truth to their opinion and dismiss this simple fact of life. Another reason, why arguing or debating with them becomes futile.

To tell you the truth I read your covert defence of Islam's innocence (="moderate Islam") as quite unconvincing.

Ianus - I do not defend Islam's innocence in as much as I do not defend the innocence of Jews, Christians or any culture so ever. I am very much aware of some serious threats originating from Islam, but I am not prepared to condemn the entire 1.5B world of Moslems as a whole for it.

Yes I believe that there are moderate streams, progressive tendencies and a whole lot of a average people who do not intend to infiltrate or subvert our democracy. Even though such outspoken streams seem to be rare and mostly silent, denying its existence is not only counter productive, but surreal.

Well , I wonder how traditional rabid Islamic anstisemtism as based in the Quran and in the misdeeds of its inventor fits in your "democratic stand on this issue" ? You're well aware of the hard facts of Islamic history after all, aren't you ?

The keyword is "traditional", Janus. If the Quran stood in fact unquestioned by all of the world's Muslims, I'd certainly panic too. The phrases and quotes do sound terrifying. But so do many out of our own Bible. Cryptic, ancient texts which can not 1 to 1 be related to the 21st century and oftentimes even contradict themselves.

Heck, my own fatherland, Hungary, was subject to some of the hard facts of the Ottoman Empire. But how long will we continue to recite the evil of the past committed by all cultures or religions, including the Christians? Was Hitler a Muslim? Isn't it moot to compare casualty numbers throughout history? Isn't it time to look at the present and find ways to co-exist?

Does it ? What does it mean to be a Muslim for you , Michel ? For me it means accepting the Quran as the book authored by Allah , the impeccability of its last prophet as a paragon of all virtue and Islam as the supreme good. If you agree with this definition , then I can't understand why you disagree with Noah Wilk , dhimmi no more , Susan and other sober contributors on this forum ? You can't be a Moslem and remain unstained by the poison and perversity of Islam. You can't bathe in a contaminated pond and get angry when point to the fact.

You nailed the cause for our difference in opinion precisely. It is based upon your or my definition of a Muslim.
Yours is congruent with Dhimmi, Noah and Susan's. You believe that the only true Muslim is a person who embraces the Quran and its teachings to the letter of the book. You further believe that all Muslims do so. J. These people are, why I stand against Noah and Dhimmi - not the religious zealots in Birmingham or Al Khaeda. The people living next door, not Mullah Omar.

I see the Muslim much more pragmatically and much more similar to our own people. You ‘ll find some fanatic followers and you'll find mostly ( at least in the western World and domestically spoken) the same half assed average people to a way higher extent preoccupied with their secular day to day challenges. I call myself a Christian but the last time I read the Bible or was in a church, dates back to the last century

Believe it or not, Ianus – the very Muslim you define, is my enemy too. The religious fundamentalist, militant, fanatic and oftentimes terrorist Djihadist. If you read my posts, I promote harsh strategies to counter such tendencies.

....Actually, I myself can't imagine a "constructive dialogue" with a Moslem. By "constructive" I mean "sincere". As long as you refrain from asking direct and right questions you can converse with your Moslem in a pleasant way ... on football, the weather or the growing number of pilgrims in Mecca ... Ask him "Why do you believe Allah has written the Quran ? After all it is totally illogical and contradictory beside being criminal. "... Then you'll see why it's impossible to talk sincerely ("constructively") to a Moslem.

Well, how about the MM Canadian Gent? He was very outspoken in condemning the terrorist acts and I found several more such Muslim opinions on the Internet. In my book such people do deserve a constructive dialogue and respect, as they may, being still a minority within their own culture, face severe repercussions by their own fanatics.

No so bad idea , in my opinion. Let them taste some of the sixth hell they have prepared for us (For you too , Michel. Ask your moderate Moslems on the amenities and refinements of hell for all non-Moslems -kaffirs or what happens to a soul of a Moslem and of a non-Moslem after they die to see my point. If you want to learn some of these hilarious details take a look e.g. at :

Again – If we remain on a theological level, we'll never come to a result. By now I have been educated as to how exclusive and radical the Quran reads and can not disagree with your conclusions. Plato himself engaged in theological debates and asked brutal questions which have remained unanswered. Yes - I do agree with you all, that evidently this book is in dire need of reform, so It can no longer be used as cheap excuse for so many still committed atrocities.

But – my angle is simply, that we ( again in a domestic context mainly) should look away from this ancient book and look more at the people practicing the religion now and right here in our neighborhoods.>>>>> what happens to a soul of a Moslem and of a non-Moslem after they die

Speaking about exclusive in nature – I was ridiculed for an analogy and real life example out of our own Christianity. According to several so called Bible experts, Mahatma Gandhi would burn in hell, simply for one reason. He did not believe in the Christian God.

Only "hatred" ? You remarked once she's filled up to the rim with facts though ? There is much more than only "hatred" as you imply. As a woman she feels instinctively (and absolutely correctly) what Islam really means to a woman. I wish all Western women realized as Susan does what Islam implies in terms of women's horryifying degradation. I wish all Western women understood that women are going to be the first and most suffering victims of this monstrous beast on the rise. In one of the posts a reader on the forum described some common Moslem mistreatments of women ( revitalized domestic slavery) in the time to come. It was a heartbreaking reading for me.

Yes, Susan is a lost case. Obviously an educated woman, well –read, but obsessed and consumed ... Simply disagreeing with her conclusions is enough to drive her out of her mind. By now I am for certain as much of an enemy, as the ugly Muslim she sees, wherever she goes. But once again, you see a monster rise here and that precise monster is the same enemy for me too. I even found some evidence as to Muslim voices calling for equality for women and here domestically there is little evidence for the same oppression of women within the Muslim minority.

It's important that you used the verb "believe" here.

Yes – and so should in the pure sense of relativism all of you too. I have found some evidence for the existence of Moderate Islam, progressive tendencies and a lack of wide-spread unrest domestically. Therefore I believe that it exists and that I am fundamentally right to oppose strategies out of Goebbel's strategy book.

I can't share your belief. They were a minority neither at present nor in the past. They are -if they exist - actually an tiny aberration in the lethal gravitational field of Islam. They are being engulfed by "normal" Islam sooner than they surface.

I appreciate your viewpoint and conclusion. You certainly have more evidence for your stands.

In Islam you can't be fanatic enough. A "moderate Moslem" would be someone who is no longer a Moslem sensu stricto as he says (if he does) it's not good to be too fanatic , to love Allah too much and fight in his path too much.
Those who call themselves "moderate" or are called so by gullible Westerners are hypocrites or have not been confronted with right questions yet. The moment you ask them a few critical questions you'll see what is hidden behind their alleged "moderacy". "Moderate Islam" is a contradictio in adiectivo.

Yep – you repeat one of the main hypotheses here, shared by many experts on the topic. It is the basis for the entire argumentation of the Noahs. I can not dismiss the theory, yet, I can not adopt it either, as I believe that all Muslims are first and foremost human beings, driven by the very same basic motivators and not just religion. With primary focus on our own domestic Muslim Minority, I do not see evidence for what you say. You can not make a case beyond reasonable doubt, and therefore I can not sentence the defendant to death.

> Is it really an "objective" approach ? Do you imply that the Moslems proceed the same way ? There are no shortcomings in Islam - to the Moslem mind.

I draw strength from leading by example. I do not care, if some of them do not proceed the same way, as they can not touch us. Are you really that certain? Are all of these people so utterly different from us?

The idea of defective Islam is a blasphemy punished with death and the seventh hell. Islam is ideal. Otherwise Allah wouldn't be ideal. Saying people can make mistakes doesn't help much as you have the right "guidance" (the Quran and the hadiths) to establish what is ideal and what is not.

I am sure that these fanatics exist. I am not sure that they all are.

You can't understand Islam by applying our Enlightenment mindset and methodology, dear Michel. Islam knows nothing of Enlightenment and despises it, as it despises as inferior all kaffiri cultures . Islam is a cultural singularity -if I may call it so. Objectivity here requires a different approach than what we are taught by our cultural relativism. A different methodology is dictated here by the singular subject-matter.

For the ones who are like you depict them, it shall be said, that it would be in the might of the kaffirs to eradicate them. Osama and the likes have not scratched us. Needle stings in the skin of an elephant. Our own growing Muslim Minority makes us even stronger, as it undermines the easy depiction of the fanatics to call us Westerners "infidels".
We are Christians, Jews, Muslims, Buddhists, Hindu. It becomes increasingly harder to "label" us. Muslim fanatics become increasingly enemies of the Muslim World, and once they have killed enough of their own, they will be increasingly be opposed by their own and from within. Enlightenment is after all based upon self-reflection.
As long as the finger pointing continues, I would not call ourselves enlightened.
A "great" Moslem "scholar" ibn Khaldun in his "al- Muqaddimah" has written that the past and the future resemble each other more than two drops of water. Look at the bloody and obscurantist Moslem past if you want to see what the Moslems (=all Moslems) want to impose on this world. Their deadly utopia will plunge this world into another stone age if one day they manage to overcome the forces of enlightment and freedom. And the Moslems do all their best to make this dismal nightmare a reality.

Once again – our entire disagreement boils down to it – their deadly utopia. The ones who in fact understand it as such, will find that they try to oppose a tsunami. The ones who adapt to modern day principles will become part of it.
As opposed to you, I do believe that there are many ( so far silent ones) who try to do the latter.

Saying Moslems are not Moslems (i.e. trying to make them "moderate Moslems") sounds so unrealistic and so soothing (=escapist) to my ears.
If I make take recourse to your metaphor it is as if Goebbels were saying that Stalin's bolsheviks were about to conquer East Germany in 1945 peacefully - by discussing things with every German scholar and every concerned housewife...We must be realistic.

My realism is based upon acceptance of relativism. I do neither share your definition of Muslims, nor do I label all Muslims as moderate. As mentioned and outlined in many posts and never really contradicted - there are many shades and levels of Christianity. Why the same credit of the doubt is not given the slightest bit of consideration, when discussing Islam, is in my opinion neither realistic nor fair.

A kaffir is a kaffir to any Moslem, whether the Moslem is living in former Greek cities of what is now Turkey, or in former Indian towns and villages that are now Pakistan. There are more constant magnitudes in Islam than I or you'd like to admit. We have to face the hard and unpleasant evidence. Truth is rarely amusing and optimistic. The ancient Greeks knew it very well as their tragedies show.

See above – according to the letter of the book probably true. According to reality, as I experience it here every day, the statement does not hold water beyond a reasonable doubt.

What is now at stake is our fate and more than three thousand years of our civilization put at risk for a chimaera of some pseudo-multicultural utopia . This multiculturalism is a cunning misnomer for Moslem monocultural supremacy that is gaining ground in Europe. That we react to this perfidious game played by our Eurabian treacherous politicians violently is more than understandable and justified, Michel. Or perhaps you don't mind living a dhimmi in a third-world slums that once were called New York or Zurich ? What is more important for you -peace or liberty ?

From within your structure of arguments, above scenarios are of course plausible and logic. From within mine, above question will never have to be asked or responded to, as I support the harshest opposition to any intent of subversion and/or installing of Sharia as state law or religion as state religion. In my book peaceful co-existence is embraced, whereas any fanaticism is strongly and by all means opposed.

This is one of your gravest and impardonable sins , Michel. If you cared you would avoid much misunderstanding and unpelasant comments by people I personally appreciate. The Quran is not just an ancient book. For every Moslem it is the book written personally by Allah. I am not sure if you grasp all the dire consequences of this fundemental fact for any issue on Islam. One of the consequences of this fact fact is e.g. that your "democratic stand" on it is simply incredible, not too say absurd. Allah is not a democratic semi-god. It's an absolute metaphysical tyrant and what he "says" is valid for all times and climes. No one has a right to disagree. You can't discuss with a maniac Oriental tyrant (Allah).

I see once more where you are coming from, and can not deny plausibility of the argument. Is our own trinity a semi-god or democratic in nature? We nevertheless have to a vast majority learned to accept other religions and cultures, even though that makes us act in fact against the letter of the Bible. I foresee the same will happen in the Islamic world, as people always have a tendency to override dogma at some point.

I don't trust them personally. What counts is what is in the Quran. If you ignore the Quran you can't counter and refute all the abusrdities invented by the interpreters to mislead the gullible kaffirs.

I trust them to the same extent, as I trust our own people quoting the Bible on every occasion. As far as I can throw them. No offense intended to any reader, but these ancient books should all be burned by now, as they have caused so much grief throughout history. Let's make the 10 commandments and maybe the US constitution an overriding set of principles all people on this globe have to adhere to and get rid of all the rest other than considering them as historical documents of importance. These Books do no longer address the challenges we face. They are reason for confusion and misguidance. Denying African people condoms resulting in up to 70% Aids infection rates is to my opinion as criminal as calling for a holy war. I think religion and churches, mosques and temples should all be outlawed and many roots for war would be eliminated.

This "internal struggle towards betterment of onself" is indeed a fine concept! I wonder what is so wrong in onself the Moslems have to fight against so instensely ?

What's wrong with this concept? Don't we all experience this internal struggle? The fight against all the negative attributes in human kind totally transcends culture or religion. Greed, hatred, jealousy, anger, mistrust and those often mentioned deadly sins are concepts not foreign to any of us, aren't they? At least that's how I understood the "internal struggle".

In the end, Ianus, I can not come to any other conclusion than to accept that we part ways very early on. Your entire rationale, based upon the assumption that there is no Muslim per definition who can live in a peaceful way in our world, is logical in itself.

I on the other hand see Muslims as people first and foremost. The same boring average people who have as little knowledge about their own teachings as we have about the Bible. As opposed to the Bible the Quran admittedly has a dangerous component, as its radical followers must search for ways to combat the Infidel. The Jihad can and is being interpreted by dangerous people to legitimate violent, terrorist acts against peaceful civilians.

While that is a clear and present danger and must be seen and counteracted as such, I am still not convinced that all of 1.5 B Muslims globally are as one out to eradicate all of us by all means.

We differ solely in our definition of Muslims. Having said that, neither of us can prove the other wrong beyond reasonable doubt. A classic case of the fact that we respectfully agree to disagree.

Refreshing for a change.

My Regards to Poland.

Note: Opinions expressed in comments are those of the authors alone and not necessarily those of Daniel Pipes. Original writing only, please. Comments are screened and in some cases edited before posting. Reasoned disagreement is welcome but not comments that are scurrilous, off-topic, commercial, disparaging religions, or otherwise inappropriate. For complete regulations, see the "Guidelines for Reader Comments".


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Title Commenter Date Thread
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2ISLAM NOT A RELIGION OF PEACE. [3 words]Nina NiaziOct 19, 2007 19:24108556
1We, the People. [122 words]Linda HaslamOct 20, 2007 00:16108556
1right on brother! [375 words]kid berthaNov 5, 2007 15:19108556
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3Islam: Religion of Peace? [85 words]Linda HaslamNov 27, 2007 09:42108556
2ISLAM NOT A RELIGION OF PEACE [207 words]nina niaziDec 2, 2007 17:40108556
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2Jaladhi get an education old chap! [177 words]Leven-TorresApr 14, 2008 09:04108556
1try to learn scripture first [36 words]johnMay 18, 2008 05:02108556
1Don't misquote the Qur'an please. [832 words]KeithJul 22, 2008 18:22108556
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don't make any illusions [122 words]SunaJan 18, 2010 15:26108556
Ignorance: a dangerous thing [78 words]HamiyetMay 6, 2012 16:07108556
The War that we are Fighting [1925 words]Major DaveMay 23, 2007 17:3894113
My average American's opinion [768 words]kid berthaJun 12, 2007 16:1994113
So what is your solution? [1942 words]Major DaveJun 12, 2007 23:5394113
misunderstood [1256 words]kid berthaJun 14, 2007 11:1894113
My Respect [341 words]MichelAug 25, 2007 15:0694113
Oh, boy......... [76 words]Nick4693Sep 13, 2007 19:5294113
1ISLAM NOT A RELIGION OF PEACE. [156 words]Nina NiaziOct 19, 2007 16:3694113
1Nina is correct. [432 words]kid berthaNov 5, 2007 14:4394113
ISLAM NOT A RELIGION OF PEACE [114 words]NinaNov 7, 2007 18:1994113
bravo [110 words]kcOct 21, 2009 01:0394113
Islam is not a relgion of Peace [20 words]sahilApr 10, 2011 13:5694113
2Monotheism vs Polytheism [225 words]IndianMay 17, 2007 03:5993309
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what is the truth? [51 words]najeebSep 15, 2009 09:1293309
Shiites [59 words]Dr Erich MeyerMay 8, 2007 23:5892175
1Why US should attack Islamic Iran now ??? [642 words]ShivaMay 4, 2007 10:1591639
1Finally a factual message has been posted [372 words]kid berthaMay 5, 2007 09:3291639
1Right on! [332 words]Nick4693Sep 13, 2007 22:5291639
there's no why! [84 words]SunaJan 18, 2010 15:3691639
Plato [302 words]SohailApr 22, 2007 06:2090156
To Sohail: All mixed up [210 words]PlatoApr 23, 2007 08:4390156
So why should the West be the winner???? [2 words]aliApr 16, 2007 10:0089384
Answers for Ali [93 words]Noah WilkApr 19, 2007 18:3889384
how i see it [74 words]warnerApr 20, 2007 01:0189384
Ali your answer is in the Taliban video [99 words]PlatoApr 22, 2007 01:5889384
Three words for you [3 words]RJMay 1, 2007 00:0889384
How the West could lose: Reply to Mr.Ali. [47 words]Jaisingh ThakurJul 13, 2007 00:1689384
Why [35 words]aliJul 21, 2007 14:3489384
No... [93 words]adfJul 20, 2008 15:1789384
3why most of iranian hate arabs and islam? [17 words]persianDec 16, 2008 17:3189384
iranians hate arabs [4 words]joeSep 11, 2009 17:5189384
To Be the Big Dog or Not [628 words]MichaelApr 11, 2007 11:4989023
A muslim duty [581 words]moderate MuslimApr 7, 2007 00:0088762
Reality check and fantasy [50 words]dhimmi no moreApr 7, 2007 18:1488762
make no sense [14 words]moderate MuslimApr 8, 2007 22:2288762
Yes I read it in Arabic a language that you do not know [27 words]dhimmi no moreApr 9, 2007 18:0988762
Honest answers, please! [343 words]Nick4693Sep 11, 2007 19:5788762
Now one question [106 words]moderate MuslimApr 6, 2007 23:3388757
M&M and his bogus context again and Q9:4 or 5 if you wish [53 words]dhimmi no moreApr 7, 2007 18:5188757
i dont even know [228 words]a muslim americanMar 27, 2007 22:1888086
Our dear M&M and Islamic meltdown part deux [19 words]dhimmi no moreMar 28, 2007 17:1588086
1A NORMAL MUSLIM... [341 words]DONVANApr 5, 2007 14:0488086
oil and water [86 words]todd morrisonOct 16, 2007 23:2588086
wow.... [51 words]moderate MuslimMar 27, 2007 15:3388065
It says ya ayuha al-nass! [105 words]dhimmi no moreMar 29, 2007 17:5788065
dhimmi, READ YOUR OWN EVIDENCE FIRST [225 words]moderate MuslimMar 30, 2007 19:3088065
For Our dear M&M and his bogus arabic and the Qur'an really says that islam is the religion of the Arabs only and you ain't one [718 words]dhimmi no moreApr 2, 2007 19:4188065
The poor Arabic translation of Picktall another wannabe Arab! [446 words]dhimmi no moreApr 3, 2007 07:2688065
For our dear M&m and argument from silence! And Islam is indeed the religion of the Hijazi Arabs as per Q14:4 and you ain't one [30 words]dhimmi no moreApr 5, 2007 18:1488065
One more time pt 2 [243 words]moderate MuslimMar 26, 2007 19:2788016
fantasy world of islam [286 words]susanMar 28, 2007 15:2688016
Still in denial, "Moderate" Muslim [357 words]Noah WilkMar 28, 2007 16:5988016
yeah ok [26 words]moderate MuslimMar 28, 2007 19:1988016
3Why are you making excuses, Moderate Muslim? [322 words]Noah WilkMar 31, 2007 17:5688016
were you at the rallies? [40 words]susanApr 1, 2007 10:0388016
Ok, so What? [11 words]moderate MuslimApr 2, 2007 19:0388016
the usual cheap excuse [11 words]susanApr 3, 2007 02:5688016
Ignorance is no excuse [168 words]Noah WilkApr 5, 2007 14:5188016
I will not stand for hate. [42 words]moderate MuslimApr 6, 2007 23:3688016
Moderate Muslim corners himself! [393 words]Noah WilkApr 7, 2007 16:2488016
Misunderstanding [311 words]moderate MuslimApr 7, 2007 21:1588016
easy [51 words]susanApr 8, 2007 07:1888016
the 1960's [27 words]moderate MuslimApr 8, 2007 22:2488016
not an "image" problem [297 words]susanApr 9, 2007 07:2088016
Speaking of hate and the Qur'an [83 words]dhimmi no moreApr 9, 2007 18:1988016
Why not burn effigies? [80 words]Noah WilkApr 9, 2007 20:5288016
noah [62 words]moderate MuslimApr 10, 2007 21:4888016
Back to Morous (12 seconds on the shot clock) [3677 words]moderate MuslimMar 25, 2007 22:1287974
Our dear M&M and cut and paste jobs Paki/Arabic and the bogus hadith! [522 words]dhimmi no moreMar 27, 2007 20:2387974
an addendum and my source for the hadith literary criticism [20 words]dhimmi no moreMar 28, 2007 07:0687974
My compliments to the sheik (morous 360 dunk in moderate's face, the crowd goes wild) [1370 words]MOROUSMar 28, 2007 16:3987974
To Moderate Muslim: [894 words]PlatoMar 30, 2007 04:2287974
No, I respect many [89 words]moderate MuslimMar 30, 2007 19:2587974
To Moderate Muslim: But Allah hates other religions [234 words]PlatoApr 1, 2007 02:0587974
numbers matter [54 words]susanApr 1, 2007 10:1387974
Here's your answer Plato [129 words]moderate MuslimApr 2, 2007 19:0987974
heh, ok right, that is so bogus [40 words]moderate MuslimApr 2, 2007 19:2487974
let's start from... [46 words]susanApr 3, 2007 03:1587974
And speaking of bogus! [86 words]dhimmi no moreApr 4, 2007 17:2987974
your answer [535 words](moderate) Muslim (though all real Muslims are moderate)Apr 5, 2007 22:0887974
christian arabs are first victims of muslims [243 words]susanApr 8, 2007 07:2687974
Islam and Terror [1398 words]moderate Muslim AmericanMar 22, 2007 17:4387720
Hamza Yusuf a Muslim scholar? LOL! [187 words]dhimmi no moreMar 23, 2007 19:2287720
5Nothing's more fun than debunking "Muslim Logic" [2959 words]Noah WilkMar 23, 2007 21:1887720
To Moderate Muslim: It is just a wish-list you have given us [2577 words]PlatoMar 24, 2007 06:4087720
M&M and David Chappelle exposed [147 words]dhimmi no moreMar 25, 2007 09:1487720
high muslim clerics agree with bin laden [394 words]susanMar 27, 2007 15:2487720
ok? [44 words]moderate Muslim-Mar 27, 2007 22:0087720
you just proved how ignorant islamphobes are [82 words]Islamophobic ignoranceMar 28, 2007 15:2687720
Precisely why we condemn you [380 words]Noah WilkMar 28, 2007 17:1887720
The little olive institute [32 words]dhimmi no moreMar 28, 2007 17:4587720
Our dear M&M and Yusuf Hamza's ancestry [25 words]dhimmi no moreMar 28, 2007 17:5187720
thanks.. [8 words]moderate MuslimMar 28, 2007 19:2087720
Islamophobia, really? [298 words]dhimmi no moreMar 29, 2007 07:2287720
Because , the most comfortable position for a coward is to struggle to be portrayed a "moderate" (&) Moslem. [611 words]Ynna(tchkah)Mar 29, 2007 13:4087720
poor reply [71 words]susanMar 29, 2007 13:4287720
like you said something... [91 words]susanMar 29, 2007 13:5087720
we need ears to listen and eyes to see [252 words]Islamophobia no more...Mar 29, 2007 16:3887720
chechnya is sufi [20 words]susanApr 1, 2007 10:1487720
I dont think you get it (Ynna (tchkah) [129 words]moderate MuslimApr 2, 2007 19:2387720
and why? [41 words]moderate MuslimApr 2, 2007 19:2787720
Our dear Islamophobia no more and his little diatribes [48 words]dhimmi no moreApr 2, 2007 19:5487720
Congratulations for not going to work to CAIR [108 words]Ynna (tchkah)Apr 3, 2007 03:0287720
skewed perception of Islamophobes [138 words]Islamophobia no moreApr 3, 2007 03:0387720
africa's fault is african [146 words]susanApr 3, 2007 03:2287720
an Islamophobe [259 words]Islamophobia no moreApr 3, 2007 03:3287720
cair wants sharia [39 words]susanApr 3, 2007 03:3987720
More diatribes from our dear INM aka M&M [103 words]dhimmi no moreApr 3, 2007 18:4387720
YOU DON'T GET THE POINT [19 words]moderate MuslimApr 3, 2007 20:2787720
For our dear INM and what is an Islamophobe part deux [343 words]dhimmi no moreApr 4, 2007 07:5387720
no matter how you turn it [67 words]susanApr 4, 2007 14:5187720
nobody is irrationally vilifying islam [234 words]susanApr 4, 2007 15:0887720
sharia allows slavery [18 words]susanApr 4, 2007 17:3987720
Dropping names and Si, comprende mucho! [111 words]dhimmi no moreApr 4, 2007 17:4887720
fallacy of bias history-reading [108 words]Islamophobia no moreApr 5, 2007 01:5987720
islamophobia, the stupidest word ever invented [124 words]susanApr 5, 2007 16:3087720
Cair and other people [171 words]moderate MuslimApr 5, 2007 22:1587720
CAIR [374 words]Noah WilkApr 6, 2007 14:5587720
Why then do you support it? [290 words]Noah WilkApr 6, 2007 15:0387720
cair = sharia = stone age [70 words]susanApr 6, 2007 15:1987720
Noah [124 words]moderate MuslimApr 6, 2007 23:4087720
M&M CAIR (big time LOL) and his flawed logic! [344 words]dhimmi no moreApr 7, 2007 08:3787720
Yes, Moderate Muslim, you ARE responsible! [516 words]Noah WilkApr 7, 2007 16:4587720
ROTFL [44 words]dhimmi no moreApr 7, 2007 18:3787720
al-Shari3a [10 words]dhimmi no moreApr 7, 2007 18:3987720
CAIR and mockery [26 words]dhimmi no moreApr 8, 2007 11:4087720
i'll see [37 words]moderate MuslimApr 8, 2007 22:3487720
Why aren't moderate muslims standing up? [55 words]Bob SterlingAug 20, 2007 23:5187720
why should the west win anyways if it continues with its current programme of warmongering? [434 words]cocoMay 6, 2009 12:0187720
islam & terror [627 words]John EdwardsOct 27, 2009 15:1387720
so here are you answers more if you want em [29 words]moderate MuslimMar 20, 2007 19:3287302
Moderate Muslim fails again! [1415 words]Noah WilkMar 21, 2007 15:3287302
mauritania has got legal slavery, allowed in islam [15 words]susanMar 21, 2007 16:5787302
MM [230 words]JaladhiMar 21, 2007 18:0187302
handshake with Kuffar? "Muslim debate schemes" and other sordid matters! [599 words]dhimmi no moreMar 22, 2007 07:5187302
morocco 50% literacy rate [18 words]susanMar 22, 2007 10:0387302
"Muslim debate schemes"! part deux [452 words]dhimmi no moreMar 24, 2007 14:1087302
Dhimmi No More - defenders of the faith have left town!!! [40 words]JaladhiMar 26, 2007 16:5687302
Your answer Plato (which is a really bad name for you, because it dishonores someone who actually thought [169 words]Moderate MuslimMar 20, 2007 19:1887298
Was the post for me? [45 words]PlatoMar 21, 2007 08:3087298
Try paying attention, Moderate Muslim [570 words]Noah WilkMar 21, 2007 17:5587298
blatantly clear? LOL [178 words]dhimmi no moreMar 21, 2007 19:5087298
To MM: Would Mohammed be a good name for me? [130 words]PlatoMar 22, 2007 14:0087298
you guys hate the truth, dontcha [23 words]moderate MuslimMar 22, 2007 17:1087298
clarification [36 words]Moderate MuslimMar 22, 2007 17:1287298
No, Im not beyond help, although I dont need much [73 words]moderate MuslimMar 22, 2007 17:1587298
Free will in islam? LOL [379 words]dhimmi no moreMar 24, 2007 08:1587298
you like lies don'tcha? [148 words]susanMar 25, 2007 10:2187298
To Syed [17 words]moderate MuslimMar 16, 2007 19:3086570
LOL syed is asking for caliphate [8 words]susanMar 18, 2007 10:1686570
Syed? LOL He has no credibility! [172 words]dhimmi no moreMar 18, 2007 12:5086570
Syeds are not Iranians?? [83 words]JaladhiMar 19, 2007 17:1886570
What? [35 words]moderate MuslimMar 19, 2007 19:2486570
For our dear M&M and islam [73 words]dhimmi no moreMar 20, 2007 17:4886570
To Moderate Muslim: Spreading Islam by avoiding unpleasant facts [389 words]PlatoMar 22, 2007 13:3586570
Sure, Syed's the perfect choice [230 words]JeffMar 27, 2007 18:2386570
i wasnt..... [77 words]moderate MuslimMar 27, 2007 22:0286570
THE JOKE'S ON YOU (DHIMMI) [32 words]moderate MuslimMar 16, 2007 19:2786568
And your point is? [244 words]dhimmi no moreMar 18, 2007 12:4086568
You dont know me, you dont even care [110 words]moderate MuslimMar 19, 2007 19:3686568
avoiding the sex slaves matter [52 words]susanMar 20, 2007 16:1186568
Uno Questiono por legion of doom [36 words]moderate MuslimMar 16, 2007 19:2586566
To Moderate Muslim: Global warming a belief? [63 words]PlatoMar 17, 2007 23:1186566
The Official Stance of the Legion of Doom On Global Warming [59 words]Noah WilkMar 18, 2007 10:1786566
youre just not answering [43 words]moderate MuslimMar 19, 2007 19:2986566
heheh, thanks plato [25 words]moderate MuslimMar 19, 2007 19:3086566
You were indeed given an answer [209 words]Noah WilkMar 20, 2007 15:2986566
They're not scared [107 words]Noah WilkMar 20, 2007 15:3686566
sex slaves conspiracy [101 words]susanMar 20, 2007 16:1486566
?? [72 words]moderate MuslimMar 22, 2007 17:1986566
Yes, you are on trial [223 words]Noah WilkMar 23, 2007 18:5786566
islam is not on trial, it's already convicted [14 words]susanMar 25, 2007 10:2686566
heh please [45 words]moderate MuslimMar 26, 2007 19:1686566
Spain and Arabian imperialism and justifying the absurd [69 words]dhimmi no moreMar 27, 2007 20:4886566
spain? islam flourished? [2978 words]susanMar 28, 2007 02:5786566
Islam is peace [103 words]moderate MuslimMar 14, 2007 21:3686334
disproved [331 words]susanMar 15, 2007 16:2486334
Islam and violence and silence [116 words]dhimmi no moreMar 18, 2007 17:3486334
uh NO [7 words]moderate MuslimMar 19, 2007 19:2586334
Our dear M&M has never been to a madrassa! [81 words]dhimmi no moreMar 24, 2007 14:2286334
A Peaceful Muslim Country (oh my) [259 words]moderate MuslimMar 11, 2007 21:2185929
...muslim [492 words]susanMar 12, 2007 18:3085929
very poor example [255 words]susanMar 12, 2007 18:4085929
Dave Chapelle? and who the heck is he? And why should we like him or hate him for this matter [235 words]dhimmi no moreMar 12, 2007 19:3985929
MALAYSIA A PEACEFUL MUSLIM COUNTRY???LOL [110 words]MOROUSMar 13, 2007 16:5385929
Malaysia is Saudi Arabia of East [142 words]JaladhiMar 13, 2007 19:1385929
Talking points, pillars, quibbles, quotes, examples, and some words of wisdom from the kennedys. [972 words]moderate MuslimMar 13, 2007 19:3285929
MY EMAILS? [13 words]muslimMar 13, 2007 21:2385929
Malaysia is Saudi Arabia of East - Pt. 2 [133 words]JaladhiMar 14, 2007 16:2785929
The good ole pillars of islam! [84 words]dhimmi no moreMar 14, 2007 16:4385929
kennedy quote? [659 words]susanMar 14, 2007 16:4485929
why does everyone not get it [32 words]moderate MuslimMar 14, 2007 19:4085929
huh?? [339 words]morousMar 15, 2007 12:2285929
Our dear M&M and you ain't Muqatil [61 words]dhimmi no moreMar 15, 2007 20:0485929
To Morous-Clarify a few things [291 words]moderate MuslimMar 15, 2007 21:2585929
your clarification Moderate [664 words]MorousMar 17, 2007 11:4685929
one clarification: malaysia has got sharia law [41 words]susanMar 18, 2007 10:1985929
literal interpretation [68 words]susanMar 18, 2007 10:2285929
Reply to Reply : morous [116 words]moderate MuslimMar 18, 2007 17:1585929
women as humans? [31 words]susanMar 20, 2007 04:5185929
It's Back in your court MODERATE [616 words]MorousMar 20, 2007 13:2585929
Malaysia? [171 words]surjApr 20, 2007 22:3485929
More Answers (Aisha) (ra) [2787 words]moderate MuslimMar 11, 2007 21:0685919
aisha the child [103 words]susanMar 12, 2007 18:3385919
To Moderate Muslim: Hiding the shame of Aisha's age and a Maulana abrogates 9:29 [989 words]PlatoMar 13, 2007 01:1385919
3A'isha and real history! and playing with dolls! [648 words]dhimmi no moreMar 13, 2007 07:2885919
Lies will not change historical age of Aisha at the time of her marriage [157 words]JaladhiMar 20, 2007 15:4385919
The Ultimate Post- No Hiding, No Crying, Just Answers [8353 words]moderate MuslimMar 8, 2007 22:1385330
I'm cherry picking Moderate Muslim's huge post [2178 words]Noah WilkMar 9, 2007 04:1485330
For our dear M&M and his bogus command of Islamic theology [454 words]dhimmi no moreMar 9, 2007 18:0085330
To Moderate Muslim: Ethical basis of Islam and the thrashing of women by men [2001 words]PlatoMar 10, 2007 07:3085330
For our dear Moderate Msulim and what is really a moderate Muslim?And other sordid matters [885 words]dhimmi no moreMar 10, 2007 07:4085330
More Answers-To Dhimmi [293 words]moderate MuslimMar 10, 2007 13:2085330
Our dear M&M and he is really a "bait"? and Jihad or holy war revisited part deux [653 words]dhimmi no moreMar 10, 2007 14:1585330
moderate [592 words]susanMar 10, 2007 15:0185330
For our dear M&M and Q2:216 ...part one! [832 words]dhimmi no moreMar 11, 2007 09:2885330
dhimmi ... [26 words]susanMar 11, 2007 10:3985330
For our dear M&M and Q9:4 part deux! [541 words]dhimmi no moreMar 11, 2007 14:4185330
moderate Muslim [61 words]moderate MuslimMar 11, 2007 17:4285330
Condemnable Offenses. Controlling Men [91 words]moderate MuslimMar 11, 2007 17:4585330
you have no idea what a race is again [13 words]susanMar 12, 2007 03:3885330
M&M and more fantasy [262 words]dhimmi no moreMar 12, 2007 07:5285330
To Moderate Muslim: Fight to make your neighbours submit to Allah [179 words]PlatoMar 12, 2007 10:1585330
response to moderate muslim [555 words]morousMar 12, 2007 16:2585330
invented by modern people? [111 words]susanMar 12, 2007 18:3085330
yeah, so? [97 words]moderate MuslimMar 12, 2007 19:2485330
To Moderate Muslim: On rape and chopping off hands [583 words]PlatoMar 12, 2007 23:1885330
Uh no [17 words]moderate MuslimMar 13, 2007 19:3385330
the joke is on you morous [36 words]moderate MuslimMar 13, 2007 19:3685330
Hypocritical Muslim [56 words]Noah WilkMar 13, 2007 20:4385330
origins [183 words]dhimmi no moreMar 13, 2007 21:5885330
Racism! Really? [147 words]dhimmi no moreMar 14, 2007 12:3185330
i am 100% correct [57 words]susanMar 14, 2007 16:2285330
More evidence [47 words]dhimmi no moreMar 14, 2007 16:5685330
Hypocrisy - thy name is.... [46 words]JaladhiMar 14, 2007 17:3185330
1Jesus is god? [26 words]moderate muslimMar 14, 2007 19:3185330
not quite making sense - at all [129 words]moderate MuslimMar 14, 2007 19:3785330
lies [30 words]moderate MuslimMar 14, 2007 19:3885330
His words? [226 words]dhimmi no moreMar 15, 2007 07:3985330
Muslims suppress free debate on anti Semitism at Leeds University, UK [163 words]DelboyMar 15, 2007 09:4985330
MM [135 words]susanMar 15, 2007 16:1485330
2My dear M&M and i'm glad that you asked and the Qur'an really says that Jesus is God! [93 words]dhimmi no moreMar 15, 2007 19:5985330
Uh what? [38 words]moderate MuslimMar 16, 2007 19:2185330
MM - Read Dhimmi No More's(who knows Arabic) posts to understand Q9:4 [92 words]JaladhiMar 19, 2007 17:4885330
Respond to what? [58 words]dhimmi no moreMar 19, 2007 20:1485330
For our dear M&M and the Qur'an really says that jesus is God and the bogus tawheed [140 words]dhimmi no moreMar 20, 2007 07:5185330
THAT'S NOT WHAT THE KORAN SAYS [22 words]MOROUSMar 20, 2007 14:0285330
The fundamentally faulty logic of the person called dhimmi no more [201 words]moderate MuslimMar 20, 2007 19:0185330
Astaghfirullah is M&M's lame answer [239 words]dhimmi no moreMar 23, 2007 07:2885330
Flat? Hardly [31 words]Moderate MuslimMar 25, 2007 21:5385330
Hand Chopping and Adultery [74 words]Mukhtar Ahmed KashifJul 30, 2009 12:4785330
Why I am proud to be a member of the Legion of Doom! [354 words]Noah WilkMar 8, 2007 21:0985321
The wake up call [15 words]Moderate MuslimFeb 26, 2007 16:2579077
You're talking, but you're not saying anything, Moderate Muslim [499 words]Noah WilkFeb 26, 2007 20:3579077
PEACEFUL NATION? YEAH, COMPARED TO THE HUNS [53 words]Moderate MuslimFeb 28, 2007 07:3279077
homework for moderate muslim [155 words]susanFeb 28, 2007 15:3479077
MM, you very well described actions of Muslims [98 words]JaladhiFeb 28, 2007 17:4279077
mob muslim contradiction [97 words]susanFeb 28, 2007 18:1079077
to mod.muslim [145 words]AnnaFeb 28, 2007 19:3479077
Susan [507 words]Moderate MuslimFeb 28, 2007 20:3479077
For our dear M&M and more fantasy [371 words]dhimmi no moreMar 1, 2007 06:0279077
peace.. [125 words]donvanMar 1, 2007 09:1879077
YES [87 words]Moderate MuslimMar 1, 2007 19:5079077
Strive to forgive what? [15 words]dhimmi no moreMar 2, 2007 17:2279077
don't believe you [65 words]susanMar 3, 2007 12:4879077
Response to Susan [153 words]moderate MuslimMar 5, 2007 20:0779077
educated fanatics.. [14 words]donvanMar 6, 2007 15:0079077
Anti-Semitic propaganda from our "Moderate" Muslim [340 words]Noah WilkMar 7, 2007 12:5179077
so many mistakes again [263 words]susanMar 7, 2007 15:0279077

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