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Here's at least an outline covering only a couple of hotspots

Reader comment on item: How the West Could Lose
in response to reader comment: Exposing Michel and propaganda

Submitted by Michel (United States), Feb 5, 2007 at 20:12

Noah - I do not have much time, as I have a busy life and my dogs had to compromise a great deal lately, as I was babbling here, instead of taking them to the beach. Albeit, I will try one last time to clarify my stand, using short, simple sentences and bullet points, desperately hoping not to be misquoted or misunderstood again.

Due to time restraints, I can only deliver, what I call a rough outline of some of the focal points, as I see them. I was asked for a plan of my own and hope that below at least delivers some food for thought.

1. Prerequisite

Ø all I said and will say is solely depiction and deduction based upon my personal opinion, my own individual experiences, education, professional background and belief system.
I herewith disclaim any ambition for it to be the ultimate truth.

2. The Threat of Islam

Ø I believe it to be a topic of extremely complex nature

Ø I believe it must therefore be categorized, segmented. Individual topics and approaches for:

o Domestic Muslims (US)

§ Immigrated

§ Converted (blacks mainly)

§ Home Front (Our own society)

o Fundamentalist, Radical

§ Theology, Indoctrination, recruitment base

§ Terrorism

o Domestic Muslims (Europe)

§ Every country seems to deserve a separate category, due to different legal, socio-demographic, cultural and constitutional frame conditions

o Middle East

§ Jordan, Turkey, Egypt and similar

§ Lebanon

§ Palestine<<>>Israel

§ Iran

§ Syria

§ Saudi Arabia

o PacRim

§ Indonesia, Malaysia

o Kaukasus

§ Afganistan

§ Pakistan

§ All former Soviets

Ø I believe that, corresponding to above, individual strategies must be derived.

Ø I do not believe that there is one simple solution in response to all segments.

Ø Most of above categories are naturally interconnected and cannot be seen as isolated, but at least in context.

To discuss everyone of above categories, (there are many more) would exceed the realm of time I can allot to this. I will hence admittedly roughly outline just a few focal points, I deem as especially noteworthy.

I. Home Front

In order to persevere as society, I feel we must solidify our position first, understand our own weaknesses, then build a "strong defense". In order to evolve and persevere, some self-criticism must be accepted, as one has more credibility, if one acknowledges his own shortcomings.The best leaders I have personally encountered inspired not by way of knowledge or facts, but by their humility in interpreting them. Leaders I admire in that regards are Churchill, Reagan, Willy Brand, Gorbatchev, Gandhi, MLK - just a few examples to frame my individual position. All flawed sometimes even self-depreciating human beings who represented themselves as exactly that, and because of it, found widespread identification with their strategies or ideas. Buy-in, as I call it in the context of the corporate world.

Most of my below mentioned suggestions could be initiated by referenda, legal petitions and political activism.

- I do not promote abolishing our freedoms, but implementing legislature to prevent perversion of its intents. (Thin line between Freedom of Expression and promoting hate and intolerance)

- I promote strengthening of our society to counteract any form of (religious) intolerance and fanaticism by means of legislature, marketing, PR and education.

- I promote strong (financial) support for families to counteract the decrease of our population.

- I promote forced assimilation and hence an utter revision of all matters concerning Immigration. (Takes also care of the ghettos, as any next generation would be forced to assimilate, if they wanted an education.)

- In order to do all of the above, people must again en masse be motivated to partake in the political process – that can be done by means of modern marketing again and by regaining trust in our political leaders.

- In order to regain trust, the political system must be overhauled. (Term Limits, campaign contributions, porking, corruption, lobbying as just some potential directions)

- General decay of moral and ethical values must be counteracted.
(could be done by modern means of Marketing, PR, education and legislature)

- Significant increase of budgets towards our public school system with a resulting higher standard may also eventually contribute to a more engaged and educated populus.

- I see the principles of the US constitution to be a set of principles truly superior to any other form of governing system. In order to evidence that, one must live by example. Hence the above roughly outlined overhaul I propose. Side effect: it covers also the philosophical dimension of "the moral highground".

- I believe that integration and inclusion is the better approach than banning and deportation.
- I agree with Plato's rationale in response to the latter strategy and hence deem such as not only morally and ethically questionable, but in a pragmatic context as not feasible. (Plato definitely put some dents into that strategy in his last post, to say the least).

- I believe in education vs alienation. A unified school system, federally regulated and mandated equally for all ( no catering to minorities) will contribute to a balanced population demography and potentially to a commonly shared identification as US citizens and patriotism. Nationwide same teaching, same books, same level of teachers, same language (English), can only lead to a generation of children to growing up as US citizen. Eliminates the ghettos again in the long run and also counteracts any form of indoctrination at home. Nice side effect: Would also lift the US school standard to the level of Europe.

II. Fundamentalist/Radical

- I promote a catalogue of radical means of our own to counteract this monumental threat of global (Muslim) terrorism

o Intensify the war on terror on all fronts (economical, intelligence etc.)

o Global intelligence network by networking computer systems of all intelligence agencies a la Interpol for just terrorism related data (so it would be feasible)

o Assigning budget for a border control which deserves its name

o Draconic penalties for hate crimes and terrorism of any kind (life sentences instead of death sentences is much more deterring in face of Muslim terrorism)

o Implement legislature to intelligence gathering by drastic means (including torture – but also independent control by judicial branch )III. Domestic Muslims

o Strong and decisive retaliation geared at any organization and/or government in support of terrorismup to and not limited to military action.

o Revise military doctrine and org towards special forces ( mini armies)
Sustain and expand a solid network of local bases in " friendly" countries to ensure stability.

o Sustain elevated budgets for upkeep, motivate, pressure, influence Europeans on all levels to follow suit.

- Much of above mentioned ideas would eliminate them as a "threat", inasmuch, as any minority would learn it to be very hard to pervert and subvert this strong and unified society which I deem as possible.

- I believe that there is a large number of Muslims here, who do not engage in any criminal or subversive activities and do not plan to do so. It is irrelevant, if the number is 3 M or 30.
Fact is, that the minority is growing, that it is a significant number and that this minority has not (yet) engaged in large scale militancy.

- I feel that there is ample time for a societal overhaul, until that minority grows to "critical mass".

- I feel that demonisation of this minority leads to "creating the monster" as a natural response.

- Any form of "affirmative action"" is to my opinion counter-productive.

IV. Middle East

- A successful "Domino" strategy could be implemented to further modern democracy and human rights in this region as well as eliminate the breeding grounds for radical fundamentalism.

o Support integration of Turkey into EU with "by design" control of positive development as far as the modern principles of democracy are concerned.

o Support liberal tendencies ( grassroots) in Jordan, Egypt and the likes, help them to become "model states of democracies with ISLAM as predominant religion, yet separated from state. Support in form of individual Marshall plans, custom -tailored, monitiored per each of these countries. Support stable economies, eliminate the base. Provide jobs and that base will shrink, is my ideology. (See Ireland as template)

o Show of strength and power towards IRAN and Syria up to and not limited to intrusive means of warfare. In the case of IRAN I sadly can only see a full out invasion. I consider this one focal point/category as the most urgent and mission-critical. If we do not soon take action, IRAN alone will tumble us all into a chaos of unheard magnitude. That can happen within the next decade and inactivity will prove to be desasterous for more than just the immediate region. Action, backed by the entire industiralized world, must be taken, before Israel is put into the literal corner, where they do not see any other way to survive, other than employing their own ear arsenal. Classic Crisis mechanism, where appeasement and passiveness will not lead to any other result than massive loss of human life. This is one case of the terrible decision between the lesser evil and the greatere good we are indeed faced with.

o Topple the corrupt regime in Saudi Arabia, seat of fundamental leaders of the religious movement after all. Once moderate voices sound off Mecca and Medina, a large segment of the global Muslim pop will follow. Apart from the fact that the financial backbone of Al Khaeda and the likes would be gone.

- Force feed some form of new radical idea as to ISRAEL/Palestine in order to resolve the impasse and continuous burning ember of the mutual hatred in that region.

o My idea would consist in some form of a Vatican style solution, as far as the combined holy sites are concerned. Compensation to Israel with financial aid for Polders style land out of the Mediterranean sea. The UN could be in charge of all holy sites and otherwise completely demilitarize those.

o Maybe such a solution could only be achieved by massive UN backed troop presence throughout this entire area. Disarm all groups in Palestine (Hamas, Fatah etc., by placing 500000 soldiers in the area with clear directives and rules of engagement in any case of violence. Seal the borders air tight. Yep - that would cost a fortune, but I deem a huge bill now better than an endless conflict for the next 100 years. Time for the UN to justify its existence.

Please understand - I am standing here with a penlight inside of the Carlsbad Caverns, unable to explore the entire matter. Above is only a short term catalogue of potential tactical approaches the West could take.

My ideas may not be easy feasible, or will take a long time. But, as Plato so eloquently responded, seem at least more pragmatic than banning a religion, deporting its followers back to the middle east, or nuking entire countries.

A couple of comments in general to the last posts:

I consider Noahs negative examples as much as non-representative as mine. In the end, he admitted himself, his Muslim friends disappointed him. So logically deducted, his experiences were in fact negative, even, if they started up as positive. Hence I am provenly right in my assessment of him arguing at least in part from a mindset of negative personal experiences.

But Indeed, Noah bases his evidence on examples from around the world and certainly studied the matter extensively. No doubt - that is evident.
I on the other hand mainly focused on one of my categories, our domestic minority and can not find overwhelming evidence for their evil nature.

I did indeed call for "censorship" or even closing the session, as for my taste the tonality became extremely hostile, insulting, offensive and disturbing.
I stand to that call.

I too - I sadly admit - used inflammatory, offensive language - Albeit - I formally apologized, whereas my apology was "used" to further twist my meanings or "slap me in the face.
Analogy: I stretched out my hand, and got it hacked off in response.
As with sexual harassment, it is in the eye of the target. There is no objective definition in this case, only subjective perception.
I subjectively perceived the tonality as aforementioned - hence, Yes - I endorse censorship (to an extent) for any form of expressed intolerance and hatred.

Comments are screened for relevance, substance, and tone, and in some cases edited, before posting. Reasoned disagreement is welcome, but not hostile, libelous, or otherwise objectionable statements. Original writing only, please. (Webmaster)

I do not know about you, silent reader, but reading just this thread, just the responses after my own apology, seem to violate above at least in terms of hostility. Is it just me who feels, that too much freedom of expression is granted in this blog?

"In the same context I see the "tightening" of our freedoms as a lesser evil to protect the greater good."\Which of course would make the founding fathers turn in their graves.

For once I felt that it was me, who delivered several examples for the mentioned perversion in support of my stand for needed reform of our legislation.

Michel lies yet again in his latest post, saying:"All I wanted was to hear from the average john doe. No matter, if he was Muslim or anything else."And yet prior to that, he said:"We seem to argue with children here, Plato and I just realized, after reading the other outright moronic responses, that we absolutely waste our time here. I have way better things to do than to argue with people who see our world as a video game."

I still want to hear from any Moderate of any kind. The notion of videogame was meant in context of the suggested nuclear approach to IRAN. The call for nuking these countries came across as so abstract, it did remind me of a video game. But we are talking about real people here, real victims, real blood and I tried to reason for some consideration for the accompanying misery and the terrible consequences resulting from such action.

He also said that he was only interested in hearing from his mythological moderate Muslims which he claims exist all over America. In fact, that's all he did at first was whine, beg, and plead for his imaginary moderate Muslim friends to come to his aid. Many of us called him out on that.

I thought I could not be misunderstood – Okay - in simple words again: I love to hear from any moderate Muslim, but am already happy to hear from anyone who shares my view point or had similar (positive ) experiences. Kind of downscaled my expectations, as I am sick of hearing about all the negs, but for a change would hope to hear about some positive or constructive ideas and experiences.

Despite the most accurate assessments numbering them around 2 million, and even CAIR claiming only about 6 million, Michel suffers under the delusion of there being 30 million Muslims in the USA. He's claiming between 5 and 15 times more Muslims than any other reputable source agrees on.

I disclaimed my estimate ( of course conveniently overlooked). But the actual number is in fact irrelevant. We obviously agree that the number is significant, and even, if only 4M, percentage wise the homegrown Muslim unrest or militancy is marginal compared to our own. Current statistics of the prison pop here in the US seem to evidence that.

He clearly wants us to equate Christianity with Islam, but he cowers from the truth. And that truth is that Christianity is not trying to establish Old Testament law in America, nor is it trying to become the only religion in America, nor is it trying to force the government to give it special treatment, nor is it trying to sue its critics into silence, etc.

How often have I said, that I do not wish to enter the slippery slope of comparing Christianity with Islam. What I have done or tried to do as a matter of fact , is to point out that there are various tendencies to clamor special treatment from a variety of different movements, including the Christian Church.

If one really wants to single out one such religion or movement, how about these who try to re-install the school prayer? The ones who want to see creationism integrated into Science classes? And yes - we have currently lawsuits in process going either way. So the system is in fact currently abused to sue for special treatment. And it comes from all directions. Hence my call for legislative reform.

Why do you have such a problem with my stand that I condemn equally all such efforts to abuse our legal system and rights to allow burkas and school prayers on one side of the extreme, and on the other, call for removing landmarks, under god off the pledge , all that to the level that we can no longer wish someone a merry Christmas anymore without being politically incorrect.

After all - I seem to agree with you - just widen the scale to incorporate not just Muslim based such tendencies.

All of those things are true of Islam in America. As usual, Michel ignores the facts and will run and cower when confronted with my exposure of his tactics, since he is not man enough to face the truth.

So are they true of other movements, and I do not ignore it, but would oppose all such efforts instead of just vilifying one.

________________________________________________________________________________
As far as "not man enough" goes, see my remarks about insults and hostility and censorship.
I promised myself not to reciprocate again, but I ve got to admit, you put one hell of a strain on my self-discipline :-)
I further was self confident (courageous?) enough to offer ways to find me in reality and not hide behind the anonymity of the web. My name is real, My site even includes a map. Should you be in the area one day, I invite you to come see me and repeat your statements - looking into my face.
Let us postpone the topic of cowardice and manliness until such time.
For now, I recommend to dropping such qualifications, as it seems to be a bit of a cheap shot at best.
_________________________________________________________________________________

"We do not need lowering ourselves down to entertaining banning and deportation. All we need is to repair our own broken system and the threat, as far as our direct own domestic minorites are concerned, would become irrelevant. That is within our powers and realm of control. He is obviously blind to the fact that even if we fixed our broken immigration system (which I do agree with him on), we would still have 2 million (not 30 million!) Muslims who are already here to deal with. And even if only half of the absurd claim that only 10% of them are violent is true, that still amounts to 100,000 jihadists in America hell-bent on destroying us, and integrated deeply and inextricably with the mythological moderates. A literal, subversive, standing army. And we have more proof of the existence of Bigfoot and the Loch Ness Monster than we do of moderate, reform-minded Muslims in America.

Okay - 100000 hell bent fanatics. If that is true, where is the widespread unrest? Where are the suicide bombings? All you listed was a small amount of participants in a rally in Arizona, some efforts to legislate burkas and special treatment, isolated incidents of Muslims condoning fanaticism. CAIR and its objectives.
Isn't it a bit easy to argue, that they all lay in waiting and hiding? 100000 is indeed a huge army, I fully agree, but my angle is that, if they were as depicted by you, we would see much more violence.

I dare to venture that there is as little evidence for your fanatic minority, as there is for my silent moderate majority. Is it really so naïve to assume that fanatics of all creeds and origin are usually the loudest voices?

Please do not nail me on expressions or words, but the proponents of "extreme measures" in response to ISLAM seem to be the majority here. I see it as kind of a lab experiment on a small scale proving me right. The same applies to the few muslim voices here, where pretty much solely classic propaganda is served, but no insight.

So once again Michel's false accusations, lack of ackowledgement of reality, wildly erroneous facts and refusal to answer criticism is highlighted for all to see.

Noah – I think that by now my posts contained a lot of acknowledgment. As I indeed question most sources (even mine) normally my "erroneous" facts were accompanied by some form of disclaimer, so the conclusion should not be drawn that I considered myself as the owner of the ultimate truth. Answering criticism and responding to insults on a personal level is, for me at least, a whole different ballgame.

Hence, I decided to - before I get angry or acryd or sarcastic (again) - rather abstain from engaging. Respect results in respect. As long, as you stay away from offending me as a person, but smash my arguments to pieces, I am with you.

Look, Noah – just for a second, put yourself into my shoes and read my (heartfelt) apology to you guys and especially dhimmi. Then read the responses. How would that make you feel? While, as opposed to me, you see such as weakness, hence you find yourself rarely in that situation, I still think that you should be able to sum up the needed empathy to try it for just a second.

Come on, you are a gifted debater and know how in any good debate one is supposed to assume the other viewpoint for a moment, in order to understand the other's position. Responses based upon that methode are evidently deemed more convicing. At least, that's what the debating theory says.

To use an analogy out of my beloved game of chess: The figures (arguments) on the board do the fighting, not the people moving them. In my book, a good game is not about winning, but about the quality of the game, even, if I lost. ( And I lost oftentimes). In a way, there are either no winners or both are. Heck, my best friend and I sure enjoyed a bit of (friendly and humorous) taunting in between, but never ended in a physical fight or exchange of personal insults.

Shouldn't a good debate follow the same basic ideas and rules? If you entertain my notion for a sec, a really good debate can therefore also not be won, but all parties end up winners, as we all learn, see different viewpoints, sometimes even end up agreeing on sub topics or concede individual points.
In other words, grow.

Allow me to state for the record, that it was never my intention to convince or conquer. My intention was to deliver a different angle, make people reflect at best. Maybe show that there are various streams and beliefs within our ownb society, not just proponents of opinions who see ISLAM as one fundamental evil force. Maybe lend an opening for a dialogue with my mythical Muslim. But that's pretty much the extent of it.

Noah - do you sincerely believe that such a "quality" debate can be won? My means and knowledge about Islam is admittedly limited and I woul d have loved to see a "Muslim Noah " argue point by point, quote by quote in a rational , unemotional manner. That has not happened. Maybe the time is not there yet, or maybe that group of modern Muslims does in fact not exist.

I MYSELF DO NOT KNOW, but, depending on, where one comes from, there are either plausible or naive explanations for the phenomenon of this silence.

So – I said, what I had to say.

Here is my virtual hand once more extended in respect and the understanding that we agree to disagree. Willing to reach out and meet me a 10th of the way?Once more - at least , since my honest meant apology to all of you - I had no intent to insult or offend anyone with these last posts and will also in the future try hard to refrain from it.

I can only invite you guys to follow suit, but in the end, can only control, what I can control - my own individual reaction.

Now I really have to go and take my congregation of fanatic Briards to the beach.

o Follow through in IRAK, send not 30 but 200k more troops to implement stability.
Do not leave before that is seen through.

o Implement massive border control vs Syria and IRAN to hamper influx of weapons, soldiers and support.

o Syria could be pressured in many ways ( see lybia)- they would cave facing war and destruction. Would also solve some of the problems in Lebanon.


Note: Opinions expressed in comments are those of the authors alone and not necessarily those of Daniel Pipes. Original writing only, please. Comments are screened and in some cases edited before posting. Reasoned disagreement is welcome but not comments that are scurrilous, off-topic, commercial, disparaging religions, or otherwise inappropriate. For complete regulations, see the "Guidelines for Reader Comments".

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Title Commenter Date Thread
George Orwell : "If there was hope, it must lie in the proles." [82 words]mythJan 17, 2010 20:20167454
How the West Could Lose [168 words]AnneSep 20, 2008 10:59138894
Interesting point of view... [85 words]TousifOct 21, 2009 02:53138894
how the west could lose [78 words]jamesJun 21, 2010 23:48138894
4How the West could lose. I think you will be surprised at the final outcome. response to James. [101 words]Anne-USAJun 23, 2010 16:43138894
how the west could lost - response to Anne [67 words]jamesJun 24, 2010 01:12138894
How the West Lost- There will be evil in the last days, we expect rough times. response to James [354 words]Anne- USAJun 24, 2010 19:26138894
the left wing must be stopped and exposed [36 words]stefanoMar 4, 2008 00:21121684
The Leftwing must be stopped and exposed-----by Stephano [345 words]DebbieJul 20, 2008 10:16121684
Really America, really? [49 words]JasnaDec 26, 2008 20:14121684
SUNNI QARADAWI AND BROTHERHOOD OFFER OLIVE BRANCH TO SHIITES - IN JIHAD FOR IRAN [258 words]Sofa SogoodOct 20, 2007 12:11112001
how many more must die... before we all see ? [180 words]Phil GreendOct 6, 2007 18:51110560
We need to put aside political correctness and discuss Islam [365 words]Dennis GravesSep 11, 2007 15:22108556
counter thought... [123 words]donvanOct 18, 2007 09:24108556
1ISLAM NOT A RELIGION OF PEACE. [3 words]Nina NiaziOct 19, 2007 19:24108556
We, the People. [122 words]Linda HaslamOct 20, 2007 00:16108556
right on brother! [375 words]kid berthaNov 5, 2007 15:19108556
islam not a religon of peace [158 words]Nina niaziNov 20, 2007 10:06108556
Brits deserve it!!! [186 words]JaladhiNov 20, 2007 20:22108556
2Islam: Religion of Peace? [85 words]Linda HaslamNov 27, 2007 09:42108556
1ISLAM NOT A RELIGION OF PEACE [207 words]nina niaziDec 2, 2007 17:40108556
God's children??? [139 words]Linda HaslamDec 6, 2007 11:11108556
1Jaladhi get an education old chap! [177 words]Leven-TorresApr 14, 2008 09:04108556
1try to learn scripture first [36 words]johnMay 18, 2008 05:02108556
1Don't misquote the Qur'an please. [832 words]KeithJul 22, 2008 18:22108556
islam excuses [2162 words]paul dunnNov 28, 2008 17:42108556
don't make any illusions [122 words]SunaJan 18, 2010 15:26108556
Ignorance: a dangerous thing [78 words]HamiyetMay 6, 2012 16:07108556
The War that we are Fighting [1925 words]Major DaveMay 23, 2007 17:3894113
My average American's opinion [768 words]kid berthaJun 12, 2007 16:1994113
So what is your solution? [1942 words]Major DaveJun 12, 2007 23:5394113
misunderstood [1256 words]kid berthaJun 14, 2007 11:1894113
My Respect [341 words]MichelAug 25, 2007 15:0694113
Oh, boy......... [76 words]Nick4693Sep 13, 2007 19:5294113
ISLAM NOT A RELIGION OF PEACE. [156 words]Nina NiaziOct 19, 2007 16:3694113
1Nina is correct. [432 words]kid berthaNov 5, 2007 14:4394113
ISLAM NOT A RELIGION OF PEACE [114 words]NinaNov 7, 2007 18:1994113
bravo [110 words]kcOct 21, 2009 01:0394113
Islam is not a relgion of Peace [20 words]sahilApr 10, 2011 13:5694113
2Monotheism vs Polytheism [225 words]IndianMay 17, 2007 03:5993309
Very right but still slightly off. [140 words]True-IndianSep 22, 2007 11:2693309
what is the truth? [51 words]najeebSep 15, 2009 09:1293309
Shiites [59 words]Dr Erich MeyerMay 8, 2007 23:5892175
Why US should attack Islamic Iran now ??? [642 words]ShivaMay 4, 2007 10:1591639
1Finally a factual message has been posted [372 words]kid berthaMay 5, 2007 09:3291639
1Right on! [332 words]Nick4693Sep 13, 2007 22:5291639
there's no why! [84 words]SunaJan 18, 2010 15:3691639
Plato [302 words]SohailApr 22, 2007 06:2090156
To Sohail: All mixed up [210 words]PlatoApr 23, 2007 08:4390156
So why should the West be the winner???? [2 words]aliApr 16, 2007 10:0089384
Answers for Ali [93 words]Noah WilkApr 19, 2007 18:3889384
how i see it [74 words]warnerApr 20, 2007 01:0189384
Ali your answer is in the Taliban video [99 words]PlatoApr 22, 2007 01:5889384
Three words for you [3 words]RJMay 1, 2007 00:0889384
How the West could lose: Reply to Mr.Ali. [47 words]Jaisingh ThakurJul 13, 2007 00:1689384
Why [35 words]aliJul 21, 2007 14:3489384
No... [93 words]adfJul 20, 2008 15:1789384
1why most of iranian hate arabs and islam? [17 words]persianDec 16, 2008 17:3189384
iranians hate arabs [4 words]joeSep 11, 2009 17:5189384
To Be the Big Dog or Not [628 words]MichaelApr 11, 2007 11:4989023
A muslim duty [581 words]moderate MuslimApr 7, 2007 00:0088762
Reality check and fantasy [50 words]dhimmi no moreApr 7, 2007 18:1488762
make no sense [14 words]moderate MuslimApr 8, 2007 22:2288762
Yes I read it in Arabic a language that you do not know [27 words]dhimmi no moreApr 9, 2007 18:0988762
Honest answers, please! [343 words]Nick4693Sep 11, 2007 19:5788762
Now one question [106 words]moderate MuslimApr 6, 2007 23:3388757
M&M and his bogus context again and Q9:4 or 5 if you wish [53 words]dhimmi no moreApr 7, 2007 18:5188757
i dont even know [228 words]a muslim americanMar 27, 2007 22:1888086
Our dear M&M and Islamic meltdown part deux [19 words]dhimmi no moreMar 28, 2007 17:1588086
1A NORMAL MUSLIM... [341 words]DONVANApr 5, 2007 14:0488086
oil and water [86 words]todd morrisonOct 16, 2007 23:2588086
wow.... [51 words]moderate MuslimMar 27, 2007 15:3388065
It says ya ayuha al-nass! [105 words]dhimmi no moreMar 29, 2007 17:5788065
dhimmi, READ YOUR OWN EVIDENCE FIRST [225 words]moderate MuslimMar 30, 2007 19:3088065
For Our dear M&M and his bogus arabic and the Qur'an really says that islam is the religion of the Arabs only and you ain't one [718 words]dhimmi no moreApr 2, 2007 19:4188065
The poor Arabic translation of Picktall another wannabe Arab! [446 words]dhimmi no moreApr 3, 2007 07:2688065
For our dear M&m and argument from silence! And Islam is indeed the religion of the Hijazi Arabs as per Q14:4 and you ain't one [30 words]dhimmi no moreApr 5, 2007 18:1488065
One more time pt 2 [243 words]moderate MuslimMar 26, 2007 19:2788016
fantasy world of islam [286 words]susanMar 28, 2007 15:2688016
Still in denial, "Moderate" Muslim [357 words]Noah WilkMar 28, 2007 16:5988016
yeah ok [26 words]moderate MuslimMar 28, 2007 19:1988016
3Why are you making excuses, Moderate Muslim? [322 words]Noah WilkMar 31, 2007 17:5688016
were you at the rallies? [40 words]susanApr 1, 2007 10:0388016
Ok, so What? [11 words]moderate MuslimApr 2, 2007 19:0388016
the usual cheap excuse [11 words]susanApr 3, 2007 02:5688016
Ignorance is no excuse [168 words]Noah WilkApr 5, 2007 14:5188016
I will not stand for hate. [42 words]moderate MuslimApr 6, 2007 23:3688016
Moderate Muslim corners himself! [393 words]Noah WilkApr 7, 2007 16:2488016
Misunderstanding [311 words]moderate MuslimApr 7, 2007 21:1588016
easy [51 words]susanApr 8, 2007 07:1888016
the 1960's [27 words]moderate MuslimApr 8, 2007 22:2488016
not an "image" problem [297 words]susanApr 9, 2007 07:2088016
Speaking of hate and the Qur'an [83 words]dhimmi no moreApr 9, 2007 18:1988016
Why not burn effigies? [80 words]Noah WilkApr 9, 2007 20:5288016
noah [62 words]moderate MuslimApr 10, 2007 21:4888016
Back to Morous (12 seconds on the shot clock) [3677 words]moderate MuslimMar 25, 2007 22:1287974
Our dear M&M and cut and paste jobs Paki/Arabic and the bogus hadith! [522 words]dhimmi no moreMar 27, 2007 20:2387974
an addendum and my source for the hadith literary criticism [20 words]dhimmi no moreMar 28, 2007 07:0687974
My compliments to the sheik (morous 360 dunk in moderate's face, the crowd goes wild) [1370 words]MOROUSMar 28, 2007 16:3987974
To Moderate Muslim: [894 words]PlatoMar 30, 2007 04:2287974
No, I respect many [89 words]moderate MuslimMar 30, 2007 19:2587974
To Moderate Muslim: But Allah hates other religions [234 words]PlatoApr 1, 2007 02:0587974
numbers matter [54 words]susanApr 1, 2007 10:1387974
Here's your answer Plato [129 words]moderate MuslimApr 2, 2007 19:0987974
heh, ok right, that is so bogus [40 words]moderate MuslimApr 2, 2007 19:2487974
let's start from... [46 words]susanApr 3, 2007 03:1587974
And speaking of bogus! [86 words]dhimmi no moreApr 4, 2007 17:2987974
your answer [535 words](moderate) Muslim (though all real Muslims are moderate)Apr 5, 2007 22:0887974
christian arabs are first victims of muslims [243 words]susanApr 8, 2007 07:2687974
Islam and Terror [1398 words]moderate Muslim AmericanMar 22, 2007 17:4387720
Hamza Yusuf a Muslim scholar? LOL! [187 words]dhimmi no moreMar 23, 2007 19:2287720
2Nothing's more fun than debunking "Muslim Logic" [2959 words]Noah WilkMar 23, 2007 21:1887720
To Moderate Muslim: It is just a wish-list you have given us [2577 words]PlatoMar 24, 2007 06:4087720
M&M and David Chappelle exposed [147 words]dhimmi no moreMar 25, 2007 09:1487720
high muslim clerics agree with bin laden [394 words]susanMar 27, 2007 15:2487720
ok? [44 words]moderate Muslim-Mar 27, 2007 22:0087720
you just proved how ignorant islamphobes are [82 words]Islamophobic ignoranceMar 28, 2007 15:2687720
Precisely why we condemn you [380 words]Noah WilkMar 28, 2007 17:1887720
The little olive institute [32 words]dhimmi no moreMar 28, 2007 17:4587720
Our dear M&M and Yusuf Hamza's ancestry [25 words]dhimmi no moreMar 28, 2007 17:5187720
thanks.. [8 words]moderate MuslimMar 28, 2007 19:2087720
Islamophobia, really? [298 words]dhimmi no moreMar 29, 2007 07:2287720
Because , the most comfortable position for a coward is to struggle to be portrayed a "moderate" (&) Moslem. [611 words]Ynna(tchkah)Mar 29, 2007 13:4087720
poor reply [71 words]susanMar 29, 2007 13:4287720
like you said something... [91 words]susanMar 29, 2007 13:5087720
we need ears to listen and eyes to see [252 words]Islamophobia no more...Mar 29, 2007 16:3887720
chechnya is sufi [20 words]susanApr 1, 2007 10:1487720
I dont think you get it (Ynna (tchkah) [129 words]moderate MuslimApr 2, 2007 19:2387720
and why? [41 words]moderate MuslimApr 2, 2007 19:2787720
Our dear Islamophobia no more and his little diatribes [48 words]dhimmi no moreApr 2, 2007 19:5487720
Congratulations for not going to work to CAIR [108 words]Ynna (tchkah)Apr 3, 2007 03:0287720
skewed perception of Islamophobes [138 words]Islamophobia no moreApr 3, 2007 03:0387720
africa's fault is african [146 words]susanApr 3, 2007 03:2287720
an Islamophobe [259 words]Islamophobia no moreApr 3, 2007 03:3287720
cair wants sharia [39 words]susanApr 3, 2007 03:3987720
More diatribes from our dear INM aka M&M [103 words]dhimmi no moreApr 3, 2007 18:4387720
YOU DON'T GET THE POINT [19 words]moderate MuslimApr 3, 2007 20:2787720
For our dear INM and what is an Islamophobe part deux [343 words]dhimmi no moreApr 4, 2007 07:5387720
no matter how you turn it [67 words]susanApr 4, 2007 14:5187720
nobody is irrationally vilifying islam [234 words]susanApr 4, 2007 15:0887720
sharia allows slavery [18 words]susanApr 4, 2007 17:3987720
Dropping names and Si, comprende mucho! [111 words]dhimmi no moreApr 4, 2007 17:4887720
fallacy of bias history-reading [108 words]Islamophobia no moreApr 5, 2007 01:5987720
islamophobia, the stupidest word ever invented [124 words]susanApr 5, 2007 16:3087720
Cair and other people [171 words]moderate MuslimApr 5, 2007 22:1587720
CAIR [374 words]Noah WilkApr 6, 2007 14:5587720
Why then do you support it? [290 words]Noah WilkApr 6, 2007 15:0387720
cair = sharia = stone age [70 words]susanApr 6, 2007 15:1987720
Noah [124 words]moderate MuslimApr 6, 2007 23:4087720
M&M CAIR (big time LOL) and his flawed logic! [344 words]dhimmi no moreApr 7, 2007 08:3787720
Yes, Moderate Muslim, you ARE responsible! [516 words]Noah WilkApr 7, 2007 16:4587720
ROTFL [44 words]dhimmi no moreApr 7, 2007 18:3787720
al-Shari3a [10 words]dhimmi no moreApr 7, 2007 18:3987720
CAIR and mockery [26 words]dhimmi no moreApr 8, 2007 11:4087720
i'll see [37 words]moderate MuslimApr 8, 2007 22:3487720
Why aren't moderate muslims standing up? [55 words]Bob SterlingAug 20, 2007 23:5187720
why should the west win anyways if it continues with its current programme of warmongering? [434 words]cocoMay 6, 2009 12:0187720
islam & terror [627 words]John EdwardsOct 27, 2009 15:1387720
so here are you answers more if you want em [29 words]moderate MuslimMar 20, 2007 19:3287302
Moderate Muslim fails again! [1415 words]Noah WilkMar 21, 2007 15:3287302
mauritania has got legal slavery, allowed in islam [15 words]susanMar 21, 2007 16:5787302
MM [230 words]JaladhiMar 21, 2007 18:0187302
handshake with Kuffar? "Muslim debate schemes" and other sordid matters! [599 words]dhimmi no moreMar 22, 2007 07:5187302
morocco 50% literacy rate [18 words]susanMar 22, 2007 10:0387302
"Muslim debate schemes"! part deux [452 words]dhimmi no moreMar 24, 2007 14:1087302
Dhimmi No More - defenders of the faith have left town!!! [40 words]JaladhiMar 26, 2007 16:5687302
Your answer Plato (which is a really bad name for you, because it dishonores someone who actually thought [169 words]Moderate MuslimMar 20, 2007 19:1887298
Was the post for me? [45 words]PlatoMar 21, 2007 08:3087298
Try paying attention, Moderate Muslim [570 words]Noah WilkMar 21, 2007 17:5587298
blatantly clear? LOL [178 words]dhimmi no moreMar 21, 2007 19:5087298
To MM: Would Mohammed be a good name for me? [130 words]PlatoMar 22, 2007 14:0087298
you guys hate the truth, dontcha [23 words]moderate MuslimMar 22, 2007 17:1087298
clarification [36 words]Moderate MuslimMar 22, 2007 17:1287298
No, Im not beyond help, although I dont need much [73 words]moderate MuslimMar 22, 2007 17:1587298
Free will in islam? LOL [379 words]dhimmi no moreMar 24, 2007 08:1587298
you like lies don'tcha? [148 words]susanMar 25, 2007 10:2187298
To Syed [17 words]moderate MuslimMar 16, 2007 19:3086570
LOL syed is asking for caliphate [8 words]susanMar 18, 2007 10:1686570
Syed? LOL He has no credibility! [172 words]dhimmi no moreMar 18, 2007 12:5086570
Syeds are not Iranians?? [83 words]JaladhiMar 19, 2007 17:1886570
What? [35 words]moderate MuslimMar 19, 2007 19:2486570
For our dear M&M and islam [73 words]dhimmi no moreMar 20, 2007 17:4886570
To Moderate Muslim: Spreading Islam by avoiding unpleasant facts [389 words]PlatoMar 22, 2007 13:3586570
Sure, Syed's the perfect choice [230 words]JeffMar 27, 2007 18:2386570
i wasnt..... [77 words]moderate MuslimMar 27, 2007 22:0286570
THE JOKE'S ON YOU (DHIMMI) [32 words]moderate MuslimMar 16, 2007 19:2786568
And your point is? [244 words]dhimmi no moreMar 18, 2007 12:4086568
You dont know me, you dont even care [110 words]moderate MuslimMar 19, 2007 19:3686568
avoiding the sex slaves matter [52 words]susanMar 20, 2007 16:1186568
Uno Questiono por legion of doom [36 words]moderate MuslimMar 16, 2007 19:2586566
To Moderate Muslim: Global warming a belief? [63 words]PlatoMar 17, 2007 23:1186566
The Official Stance of the Legion of Doom On Global Warming [59 words]Noah WilkMar 18, 2007 10:1786566
youre just not answering [43 words]moderate MuslimMar 19, 2007 19:2986566
heheh, thanks plato [25 words]moderate MuslimMar 19, 2007 19:3086566
You were indeed given an answer [209 words]Noah WilkMar 20, 2007 15:2986566
They're not scared [107 words]Noah WilkMar 20, 2007 15:3686566
sex slaves conspiracy [101 words]susanMar 20, 2007 16:1486566
?? [72 words]moderate MuslimMar 22, 2007 17:1986566
Yes, you are on trial [223 words]Noah WilkMar 23, 2007 18:5786566
islam is not on trial, it's already convicted [14 words]susanMar 25, 2007 10:2686566
heh please [45 words]moderate MuslimMar 26, 2007 19:1686566
Spain and Arabian imperialism and justifying the absurd [69 words]dhimmi no moreMar 27, 2007 20:4886566
spain? islam flourished? [2978 words]susanMar 28, 2007 02:5786566
Islam is peace [103 words]moderate MuslimMar 14, 2007 21:3686334
disproved [331 words]susanMar 15, 2007 16:2486334
Islam and violence and silence [116 words]dhimmi no moreMar 18, 2007 17:3486334
uh NO [7 words]moderate MuslimMar 19, 2007 19:2586334
Our dear M&M has never been to a madrassa! [81 words]dhimmi no moreMar 24, 2007 14:2286334
ALARMING NEWS - POLYGAMOUS MUSLIM IMMIGRANTS ARE WELCOME IN US WITH UP TO FOUR WIVES [211 words]Sofa SogoodMar 14, 2007 14:4586290
A Peaceful Muslim Country (oh my) [259 words]moderate MuslimMar 11, 2007 21:2185929
...muslim [492 words]susanMar 12, 2007 18:3085929
very poor example [255 words]susanMar 12, 2007 18:4085929
Dave Chapelle? and who the heck is he? And why should we like him or hate him for this matter [235 words]dhimmi no moreMar 12, 2007 19:3985929
MALAYSIA A PEACEFUL MUSLIM COUNTRY???LOL [110 words]MOROUSMar 13, 2007 16:5385929
Malaysia is Saudi Arabia of East [142 words]JaladhiMar 13, 2007 19:1385929
Talking points, pillars, quibbles, quotes, examples, and some words of wisdom from the kennedys. [972 words]moderate MuslimMar 13, 2007 19:3285929
MY EMAILS? [13 words]muslimMar 13, 2007 21:2385929
Malaysia is Saudi Arabia of East - Pt. 2 [133 words]JaladhiMar 14, 2007 16:2785929
The good ole pillars of islam! [84 words]dhimmi no moreMar 14, 2007 16:4385929
kennedy quote? [659 words]susanMar 14, 2007 16:4485929
why does everyone not get it [32 words]moderate MuslimMar 14, 2007 19:4085929
huh?? [339 words]morousMar 15, 2007 12:2285929
Our dear M&M and you ain't Muqatil [61 words]dhimmi no moreMar 15, 2007 20:0485929
To Morous-Clarify a few things [291 words]moderate MuslimMar 15, 2007 21:2585929
your clarification Moderate [664 words]MorousMar 17, 2007 11:4685929
one clarification: malaysia has got sharia law [41 words]susanMar 18, 2007 10:1985929
literal interpretation [68 words]susanMar 18, 2007 10:2285929
Reply to Reply : morous [116 words]moderate MuslimMar 18, 2007 17:1585929
women as humans? [31 words]susanMar 20, 2007 04:5185929
It's Back in your court MODERATE [616 words]MorousMar 20, 2007 13:2585929
Malaysia? [171 words]surjApr 20, 2007 22:3485929
More Answers (Aisha) (ra) [2787 words]moderate MuslimMar 11, 2007 21:0685919
aisha the child [103 words]susanMar 12, 2007 18:3385919
To Moderate Muslim: Hiding the shame of Aisha's age and a Maulana abrogates 9:29 [989 words]PlatoMar 13, 2007 01:1385919
3A'isha and real history! and playing with dolls! [648 words]dhimmi no moreMar 13, 2007 07:2885919
Lies will not change historical age of Aisha at the time of her marriage [157 words]JaladhiMar 20, 2007 15:4385919
The Ultimate Post- No Hiding, No Crying, Just Answers [8353 words]moderate MuslimMar 8, 2007 22:1385330
I'm cherry picking Moderate Muslim's huge post [2178 words]Noah WilkMar 9, 2007 04:1485330
For our dear M&M and his bogus command of Islamic theology [454 words]dhimmi no moreMar 9, 2007 18:0085330
To Moderate Muslim: Ethical basis of Islam and the thrashing of women by men [2001 words]PlatoMar 10, 2007 07:3085330
For our dear Moderate Msulim and what is really a moderate Muslim?And other sordid matters [885 words]dhimmi no moreMar 10, 2007 07:4085330
More Answers-To Dhimmi [293 words]moderate MuslimMar 10, 2007 13:2085330
Our dear M&M and he is really a "bait"? and Jihad or holy war revisited part deux [653 words]dhimmi no moreMar 10, 2007 14:1585330
moderate [592 words]susanMar 10, 2007 15:0185330
For our dear M&M and Q2:216 ...part one! [832 words]dhimmi no moreMar 11, 2007 09:2885330
dhimmi ... [26 words]susanMar 11, 2007 10:3985330
For our dear M&M and Q9:4 part deux! [541 words]dhimmi no moreMar 11, 2007 14:4185330
moderate Muslim [61 words]moderate MuslimMar 11, 2007 17:4285330
Condemnable Offenses. Controlling Men [91 words]moderate MuslimMar 11, 2007 17:4585330
you have no idea what a race is again [13 words]susanMar 12, 2007 03:3885330
M&M and more fantasy [262 words]dhimmi no moreMar 12, 2007 07:5285330
To Moderate Muslim: Fight to make your neighbours submit to Allah [179 words]PlatoMar 12, 2007 10:1585330
response to moderate muslim [555 words]morousMar 12, 2007 16:2585330
invented by modern people? [111 words]susanMar 12, 2007 18:3085330
yeah, so? [97 words]moderate MuslimMar 12, 2007 19:2485330
To Moderate Muslim: On rape and chopping off hands [583 words]PlatoMar 12, 2007 23:1885330
Uh no [17 words]moderate MuslimMar 13, 2007 19:3385330
the joke is on you morous [36 words]moderate MuslimMar 13, 2007 19:3685330
Hypocritical Muslim [56 words]Noah WilkMar 13, 2007 20:4385330
origins [183 words]dhimmi no moreMar 13, 2007 21:5885330
Racism! Really? [147 words]dhimmi no moreMar 14, 2007 12:3185330
i am 100% correct [57 words]susanMar 14, 2007 16:2285330
More evidence [47 words]dhimmi no moreMar 14, 2007 16:5685330
Hypocrisy - thy name is.... [46 words]JaladhiMar 14, 2007 17:3185330
Jesus is god? [26 words]moderate muslimMar 14, 2007 19:3185330
not quite making sense - at all [129 words]moderate MuslimMar 14, 2007 19:3785330
lies [30 words]moderate MuslimMar 14, 2007 19:3885330
His words? [226 words]dhimmi no moreMar 15, 2007 07:3985330
Muslims suppress free debate on anti Semitism at Leeds University, UK [163 words]DelboyMar 15, 2007 09:4985330
MM [135 words]susanMar 15, 2007 16:1485330
2My dear M&M and i'm glad that you asked and the Qur'an really says that Jesus is God! [93 words]dhimmi no moreMar 15, 2007 19:5985330
Uh what? [38 words]moderate MuslimMar 16, 2007 19:2185330
MM - Read Dhimmi No More's(who knows Arabic) posts to understand Q9:4 [92 words]JaladhiMar 19, 2007 17:4885330
Respond to what? [58 words]dhimmi no moreMar 19, 2007 20:1485330
For our dear M&M and the Qur'an really says that jesus is God and the bogus tawheed [140 words]dhimmi no moreMar 20, 2007 07:5185330
THAT'S NOT WHAT THE KORAN SAYS [22 words]MOROUSMar 20, 2007 14:0285330
The fundamentally faulty logic of the person called dhimmi no more [201 words]moderate MuslimMar 20, 2007 19:0185330
Astaghfirullah is M&M's lame answer [239 words]dhimmi no moreMar 23, 2007 07:2885330
Flat? Hardly [31 words]Moderate MuslimMar 25, 2007 21:5385330
ONCE AGAIN MODERATE, THE KORAN CONTRADICTS YOU [172 words]MOROUSMar 28, 2007 17:0885330
Hand Chopping and Adultery [74 words]Mukhtar Ahmed KashifJul 30, 2009 12:4785330
Why I am proud to be a member of the Legion of Doom! [354 words]Noah WilkMar 8, 2007 21:0985321
The wake up call [15 words]Moderate MuslimFeb 26, 2007 16:2579077
You're talking, but you're not saying anything, Moderate Muslim [499 words]Noah WilkFeb 26, 2007 20:3579077
PEACEFUL NATION? YEAH, COMPARED TO THE HUNS [53 words]Moderate MuslimFeb 28, 2007 07:3279077
homework for moderate muslim [155 words]susanFeb 28, 2007 15:3479077
MM, you very well described actions of Muslims [98 words]JaladhiFeb 28, 2007 17:4279077
mob muslim contradiction [97 words]susanFeb 28, 2007 18:1079077
to mod.muslim [145 words]AnnaFeb 28, 2007 19:3479077
Susan [507 words]Moderate MuslimFeb 28, 2007 20:3479077
For our dear M&M and more fantasy [371 words]dhimmi no moreMar 1, 2007 06:0279077
peace.. [125 words]donvanMar 1, 2007 09:1879077
YES [87 words]Moderate MuslimMar 1, 2007 19:5079077
Strive to forgive what? [15 words]dhimmi no moreMar 2, 2007 17:2279077
don't believe you [65 words]susanMar 3, 2007 12:4879077
Response to Susan [153 words]moderate MuslimMar 5, 2007 20:0779077
educated fanatics.. [14 words]donvanMar 6, 2007 15:0079077
Anti-Semitic propaganda from our "Moderate" Muslim [340 words]Noah WilkMar 7, 2007 12:5179077
so many mistakes again [263 words]susanMar 7, 2007 15:0279077
NOT ANTI-SEMITIC [177 words]moderate muslimMar 7, 2007 17:4279077

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