To Mo. On being 'simple'
Submitted by Plato (United Arab Emirates), Jan 30, 2007 at 05:44
"You seem to have trouble grasping the notion that God Almighty wishes to guide the whole of Humanity through His choice of sending one man. He had done so, and so we have it"
You really have grasped the notion that I am having trouble grasping the notion that God almighty wishes to guide all of humanity through an Arab prophet. I am having extreme trouble. Why? Let me lead you through the exercise once more. Before that, I have always wondered why the all-powerful Allah could not have inspired all of us with knowledge about Him. He has the power you know (or does He?) and that demonstrates Allah's bias not just for the Arabs but also exposes His favouritism towards just one individual as against the rest of humanity.
22:2" We have sent this down as an Arabic Koran (qur'anan arabiyyan) that you may understand."
Who is this 'you' being addressed here? Since it starts with stating that it is sent down as an Arabic Koran how can you escape the conclusion that it is meant for the Arabs so that they may understand. If it had started with Oh Mankind (since it is clear book easy to understand) I will grant you your claim it is for all humankind. Emphatically the Koran is saying it is for the Arabs.
Here is Yusuf Ali's translation of 41:44: Had We sent this as a Qur'an (in the language) other than Arabic, they would have said: "Why are not its verses explained in detail? What! (a Book) not in Arabic and (a Messenger an Arab?"
Here Allah is being rational and logical when he sends an Arabic Koran to an Arab Prophet. Since Allah is a logical and reasonable being he has realised that for people to believe and understand the details it has to be delivered in their native language. And read the emphasis on details. Allah understands that the details of his message can be understood only in the language it is delivered in.
Non-Arabs who practice Islam are forever condemned to never properly understand the religion they practice except in its rituals. And that is the reality. Most do not know what it is they are saying while praying. Most do not know the meaning or significance of what it is they recite. They could, for instance, unknowingly be reciting the verse about chopping off people's hands, or Zainab's marriage to the prophet, which are totally inane when conversing with Allah.
These two verses, 22:2, 41:44, are the reason why the Arabs insist that the Koran can be understood properly only in Arabic. How can it then be for people of other languages. All translations are superflous. Why does the simple logic of this deduction escape you. Mo you are practicing a religion meant for the Arabs as Allah himself has so clearly stated in these two verses.
"Humanity was addressed with the revelation of the Quran; God Almighty initiated this revelation through Muhammad (p) who was living in Arabia at the time, there is no conspiracy, I hope you do understand"
Sure there is a conspiracy by Allah:
026.198 - 199 Had We revealed it to any of the non-Arabs, And had he recited it to them, they would not have believed in it.
Does not Allah's favouritism towards Arabs come through here. Why are only Arabs capable of understanding Allah. Are non-Arabs dumb. Why did Allah make non-Arabs dumb non-understanding types then?
There is also the verse where Allah says he has chosen the Arabs over other nations. "003.033: Surely Allah chose Adam and Nuh and the descendants of Ibrahim and the descendants of Imran above the nations".
"Clever you… The Language Arabic is chosen for many reasons, its beautiful poetry, the intricacy of the language, its depth in meanings etc.."
Mo, can you see your wannabe Arab nature shine through here. You as a Bangladeshi should have been using those terms for Bengali. You are in no position to judge Arabic but yet you shower extravagant praise on its poetry, depth etc. Can you come up with a poem any poem (let us leave the Koran aside) in the guttural (harsh, throaty)Arabic that compares with soft lilting Bengali, Rabindra Sangeeth for instance. You can retain your faith without becoming lyrical about a language you do not know. You are doing that because it is the language of your religion.
Language one of the most important markers of one's cultural identity has been relegated to second class status because of Islam. And regretfully you seem happy and proud about it. Your religion makes you think that the Arabs are a cut above the rest because Allah has chosen them above other nations and so you slavishly imitate their manners and customs even though the religion does not require you to, hoping perhaps then Allah will treat you on a par with them. Like Indians of old trying to be more English than the English.
"..The Quran is the most read, loved, revered, contemplated and memorised book .."
Read, loved, revered and memorised, quite possibly. But contemplated? Maybe only by the Arabs because as the Koran itself says it is in Arabic so that the details will be understood by the Arabs. The non-Arabs will always be left wondering whether what they are contemplating is the real stuff.
" To simply answer your question, it isn't really a problem when all language groups do believe in the Quran, the actual feasibility of such an act from God is not so impossible, nor is it impractical, if such a book to be out of limits for non-Arabs..."
Just making a categorical statment does not answer my question.
"...is only in the mind of a mortal, a human being severely bent criticising the Quran will ever come to think of such things..
Believing that an alien language is the most poetic, very intricate and has great depth is that of a human being who has a severe inferiority complex about his own culture and language brought about by statements about the superiority of the people speaking that language in the Koran.
"Notice the language used in the Quran (and I don't mean Arabic) directly addresses the Arabs, in the sense that it does for the believers and human kind in general.
7:158 that verse uses the word "nas" (Qul ya ayyuha alnNASsu) and you can go to your local Arabs and tell them what that word means in their language. Whether it is "people" or "Mankind,"
Here's your answer from Dhimmi No More:
Now Q7:158 says: qul ya-ayuha al-nasu ini rasul allah ilaikum jami3an Or: 1. Qul means say 2. ya ayuha means O you 3. al-nasu or the people. Notice the word nass means people (see Wortabet dictionary page 279). The word mankind means al-bashar (see Wortabet page 257). Very diefferent word with a very different meaning. 4. ini means I'm 5. rasul Allah means the messenger of Allah 6. Ilaikum means to you 7. jami3an means all. So the aya says: "Say: O you people I'm the messenger of Allah to you all."
"A sign of desperation…"
Just being humble and asking for the correct meaning so as not to misinterpret the Koran.
"...So you have shown that the Quran has "emphatically" shown to be the book for the Arabs only! Unequivocal statements by the Quran that the Quran is for Arabs, wow, show me!"
I thought I was showing you all this while. I refer you back to 22:2, 26:198-199 and 41:44. And my reading of them at the beginning of this post. If you still can't get it I will step you through them all over again in the next post, maybe using simpler words and sentence construction.
"You know you have tied yourself in a knot, you're trying to prove that the Word "NAS" means does not mean "mankind" as you say that you only find it in Pickthall, well let me enlighten you with some more, MUHAMMAD TAQI UD-DIN AL HILALI, DR. MUHSIN KHAN, YUSUF ALI, all use mankind in their translation..."
Let me try and untangle myself. I know zilch of Arabic, that is why I took Dhimmi's help. The part of Dhimmi's post I have pasted above indicates that 'nas' means people, he has given the dictionary reference and mankind is 'al-bashar', again with the dictionary reference. I repeat I have no Arabic but the translation I have of Yusuf Ali and Shakir of 7:158 both say people. I find it difficult to believe that Yusuf Ali would give a different translation for the same word elsewhere. Read Dhimmi No More's post no 74969 for more detailed exposition.
"LOL, you make me laugh again, you ask why? I'm thinking, is this the first time you actually asked this question to a Muslim? I am closer to my book of God than you will ever be to any of the other books that you have on your shelves. For that I guarantee. You may perceive the Quran as a pro-Arab bias, but it doesn't matter what you think really does it, because I'm not sure what it is you're trying to prove with your arguments. You are minor."
I am happy that I am giving you lots of stuff to laugh about. Your not understanding what I was getting at by showing you the Koran's Arab bias raised a smile on my lips too because it just proves my point about wannabe Arabs. Do I need to explain that.
What is that crack about my being a minor? I am a child. Your are probably right. I am being forced back into my childhood to come up with more and more simplified explanations of the same point to get through to you.
Note: Opinions expressed in comments are those of the authors alone and not necessarily those of Daniel Pipes. Original writing only, please. Comments are screened and in some cases edited before posting. Reasoned disagreement is welcome but not comments that are scurrilous, off-topic, commercial, disparaging religions, or otherwise inappropriate. For complete regulations, see the "Guidelines for Reader Comments".
Reader comments (2096) on this item
Comment on this item
You can help support Daniel Pipes' work by making a tax-deductible donation to the Middle East Forum. Daniel J. Pipes