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Common ground.....really so absurd??

Reader comment on item: How the West Could Lose
in response to reader comment: You're making inaccurate comparisons and assumptions

Submitted by Michel (United States), Jan 26, 2007 at 19:53

Hello Noah – I send my respect once more, this time as a brand new US Citizen.

Pinning your hope on such a terribly rare event is like pinning your hopes for paying off your debts on winning the lottery, simple because someone else won it once. It's not realistic by any measure.

I decided a long time ago, to always look at the glass from a half full perspective. Even if the glass is only 10% full. In addition to that, if one has no hope, then one has nothing. I attended once a pure philosophy class discussing Heinrich Heine. He makes the statement that beneath every single gravestone, there lays a universe and asks the question, if one single life may be as much worth as a thousand?
Noah - I have no answer to that.

In many of my posts have I mentioned that sometimes indeed the greater good must be considered, the lesser evil selected. But who will be the judge to make such terrible decisions?

" Analogy: I am N O T willing to bomb a house full of Serial Killers to the ground, if there is one innocent child inside. You can not call me in above analogy right or wrong. You can either share or not share my philosophy."This is an improper, inaccurate, and erroneous example for several reasons. First, it is an appeal to emotion as it involves killing a child. Second, it elevates the life of one above the lives of many. Certainly, it would be sad and regretable that a child was killed in such an attack. However, allowing such sentimentality to prevent the job from being carried out is a disservice that effectively emasculates those fighting the terrorists. If we allow those serial killers to escape due to the presence of one innocent child, how many more are condemned to die by our inaction? Perhaps hundreds of innocent people will die. The lives of the many outweigh the lives of the one.

The point I am making with this analogy is not to let the serial killers go. The point I make is that every avenue, every possibility must be explored first, before taking the ultimate action. Out of respect for the one innocent life – no matter, if child, woman or man.

Let us escalate that to a situation where Bin Laden, Amadmanjihad, Zawahiri, and other top terrorist leaders are in a cave somewhere on the Pakistan/Afghanistan border. They have 3 nuclear devices and the plans and money along with the agents who are going to bring the bombs into the United States. The plan is virtually foolproof. They are going to nuke LA, NYC, and Chicago, killing 20,735,475 innocent people. Twenty million plus! There are a couple of little Afghani and Pakistani boys and girls living in the caves with them (probably sex slaves). Do you blow the cave and everyone in it to kingdom come? Or do you condemn over 20 million people to a horrible death, condemn our entire country to decades of misery and deprivation, condemn our entire way of life and future, simply to save a few children?

In your specific example, I myself can not come to another conclusion.

" That says nothing about allowing subversives intent on destroying our country into our lands and giving them all the tools they need to enact their genocidal plans. My MO is not at all in contradiction of the Constitution. In fact, I would consider this supported in Article 3, in the section on treason:"Section 3: Treason against the United States, shall consist only in levying War against them, or in adhering to their Enemies, giving them Aid and Comfort"Treason can be punished with a death sentence. You also overlook the fact that I would not be imposing a death sentence on all Muslims. I would be enforcing the deportation of an alien ideology hostile to the ver existence of the United States, and those who adhere to such an ideology.

Who is convicted of above - after the guaranteed due process – shall be punished according to the law. I agree fully with you on that. I disagree with you only on the statement, that all Muslims are per definition our enemies, focused on our destruction.

Very little fallout would be fallout that is not significant enough to precipitate a rise in radiation related deaths. From what I have read, the bunker busting nukes we have burst underground, just like the test sites in the desert. Those areas (the Iranian nuke sites) would simply be fenced off and enclosed. Most of the radiation would be contained underground. The rest would disspiate harmlessly as it would not be a significant amount."Can you even fathom, what that fall out would do to a region of 1500miles? There is not enough grain in the world to make up for just the crops lost in this region. For decades after, genetic defects throughout the entire region including Europe. The crater such a bunker buster opens is 50 yards wide, for God's sake.Enough to send massive amounts of nuclear radiation upwards into the atmosphere. It would take several times Hiroshima levels to break through, down and destroy wide. Study the specs, if you can access them. Some of the stuff is by now declassified and you should be able to find them." First, most of the explosion would be contained underground. What part of that don't you get? Second, better to irradiate a nasty swath of barren desert than to allow Israel or New York City to be destroyed.

Atomic/Chem/Bio warfare within the special forces arm, was my specialty. I could go on and on, but will only add that, as opposed to the underground tests ( fully contained underground) these weapons are being called low yield only in comparison to atmospheric explosions, such as Hiroshima.

Compared to my example, Tschernobyl, they'll unleash hell upon a huge region, within 3- 8 weeks, depending on weather and mostly wind conditions, reaching radiation levels in the mentioned area way beyond what Tschernobyl did. Believe me, Noah - even the (comparably ;-) small) crater of a bunker buster is a wide open hole, compared to the "crack" which paralyzed Europe at the time. The term "low yield" is extremely misleading - that darn relativism again – compared to what?

Having said that – I just got an article forwarded by one of the editors of the Neue Zuercher Zeitung, one of the most reputable papers in Europe, which confirms me in a terrible way, as far as IRAN goes.
We may indeed be forced to action as terrible as none in history before. All atrocities combined will pale in comparison to this one and - we may have to do it anyway in order to select the lesser evil.

http://www.nysun.com/article/47111 (One mother of a scary scenario)

Once again, if we really must focus on a "Muslim" Enemy, I recommend to focus on this one, the single biggest danger our entire civ faces, Muslims included. Focus your efforts here, is my sincere opinon, as all other threats seem marginal in comparison.

You clearly don't understand how America works. Roughly 85% are against amnesty, but the politicians don't work for the will of the people anymore. Hence, my call for revolution.

How realistic. Having dismissed your call as surreal, I recommend to take other avenues with a chance for implementation.

" No one claimed they were 100% representative of the entire Muslim world. Obviously there are Muslims who are the exception to the rule. Just not enough to skew the equation.

And who has the arrogance to make that call? What's enough? 1%? 10%, where do you draw the line?

My methods are not too radical, they are totally appropriate to the threat. What causes you such anguish over it? Is it the idea of being firm and determined and not wishy-washy? Is it the tough love approach where I force the perpetrator to atone his own actions? My solution spares the United States any further deterioration of culture by Muslims, it destroys their various, multi-level methods of jihad instantly, it rids us of known terrorists and appeasers, and it forces Islam into isolation while putting the burden of reform where it belongs...back on the Muslims themselves.

Your methods are pushing an entire culture into the underground. Banning Islam? How would you try to enforce that? How to deport millions, if the US does not even know, where they live? We do not have any statistics which are more than estimates and extrapolations. Our laws do not permit to ask for "religion". How would you hence segregate people who practice their religion underground? Apart from the fact that I strongly believe that it is the wrong approach, it is not feasible.

I fail to see why you object so vehemently to it, while failing to offer a workable and realistic solution of your own.

I stated my ideas many times. Split the problem "Islam" up into realistic categories and address each category specifically. Just to mention our domestic minority, I recommend to isolate the radical cells, the fanatic teachers, and after due process deport them. Isolate the moderates and give them a platform. Tighten and enforce our legislature to counteract any form of radicalism. Support any effort to resurrect the core values and principles our country was built upon. Counteract the obesity of our society, involve the populus again, select leaders with charisma and vision, able to recreate patriotism across religions and subcultures. Enforce assimilation a la Switzerland, prevent ghettos and catering to minorities. Unify instead of alienate.

Noah – I saw it yesterday again, sitting with 1000 immigrants in a waiting room. (And that is just 1 location out of thousands, processing immigrants 5days, 8h/week.

The face of the US is changing. 60% Hispanics, 20% Asian, 10%, other (African and Eastern block), 1% white Caucasian, is what the mix currently looks like.

Now we can either accept this as a fact and make all newcomers true Americans, or we can lament and stand there complaining. I do not think that we have another option ( such as closing the borders), as immigration is a fundamental basis for the strength of this country (Innovation, military, understanding of others) and hence can not just be "abolished". America is strong, because we melted the best all these countries had to offer.(Mostly). If you knew, what the legal immigration process entails here, if you knew what it means to leave your country, home, friends, familiy to start anew in a foreign world, you would understand, what I mean with "the best". It is mostly courage, overcoming your fears and accepting change, what made most of these immigrants "the best".

" And yet despite decades of supposed efforts to wean ourselves of oil, we are still addicted and using more than ever. Be realistic. The oil cartels control government. You're never going to wean America from oil while they run things.

While you do make a good point here, the 20% of Oil coming from the middle east makes us as independent from potentially dangerous countries as never before. I allow myself to see it again as positive and admit at the same time, that there is much potential to further decrease it.

Again, your vision is pie-in-the-sky and unrealistic. We've been claiming the effort to become independant on foreign oil for over 30 years and we are no closer than we were 30 years ago. Sure, some environmental nuts are gung-ho about solar and wind energy, but they are also unrealistic about it and overly enthusiatic. It won't work. And it certainly won't work while we have a government run behind the scenes to a large degree by the oil companies themselves.

Well,, listening to the devil incorporate in that regard during his state of the union address, even staunch republicans seem to shift. Again – I see it as a positive sign, nothing more.

" The campaign in Irak was a master piece of conventional warfare, demonstrating the ability to adapt to any kind of enemy and minimize casualties."

On the contrary, the Iraq war has been a monumental example of utter stupidity and ignorance of the history of warfare. In our zeal to get to Baghdad, we failed to disarm and properly imprison enemy combatants after we pushed through a given area, we failed to secure those areas, and now those enemy combatants are back staging a guerilla warfare effort against us. We failed in the field of propaganda and psychological warfare when we failed to pound Fallujah into the dirt and allowed Al Sadr to continue living. He now runs the largest (and anti-American) terrorist militia in Iraq. We failed to secure the borders, which has allowed thousands of terrorist fighters to infiltrate from both Iran and Syria, and we have utterly failed to deter those countries from sending those terrorist fighters into Iraq. Everyone involved in the Iraq war (from a decision making and leadership role, not our brave soldiers on the ground) should hang their head in shame over such a mismanaged mess. If Rumsfeld had any integrity at all, he'd committ hara kiri (ritual suicide) over his actions, which have disgraced America and emboldened the enemy.

Let me clarify:
The victory on the battle field via a never heard ground strategy which makes the Blitzkrieg look pale in comparison, suffering casualties less than 1000 men, was absolutely mindblowing.
As far as the military is concerned, they did their job in a manner which will find its way into the history books and strategy lessons of the future.

The shortcomings you rightfully mention were caused by politicians. I could not agree with you more, as far as Rumsfeld (or even Bush) are concerned. Now they even argue about measly 20k soldiers to follow through. People like Obama and the likes are a scary propositon for our future indeed." Not one single terror attack since 9/11 here in a very vulnerable country is one hell of an achievement by the"War On Terror" Don't be so fast to attribute that to the "war on terror", which is an idiotic misnomer. It defies common sense to believe that the "war on terror" is the reason that no major terror attacks have occurred on American soil since 9/11. Give me 12 fanatics and $100,000 and I could shut this country down and destroy the economy in 3 hours flat (no, I will not give you details under any circumstance). The terrorists are not that stupid. If they wanted to destroy our economy, if they wanted to cause unimaginable problems for our entire society, it would not take nuclear weapons or other WMDs.

I touched on the subject myself. The real danger lays in a soft target approach. America is vulnerable indeed and some of the lack of success of Al Khaeda must be attributed to their own idiocy or Napoleon Complex. Nevertheless, Their operations have been severely impacted and being on the run is not conducive to plan and carry out further such attacks. For instance air travel security is significantly improved (I cursed it myself oftentimes).There must be another explanation, because it is easily within their power to do so. And that explanation is that their tactics and goals preclude another attack on America. Such an attack would reverse the worldwide erosion of support for the war in Iraq, which would be counter-productive to their current goals.

I agree but see the above only as one of several aspects. After 9/11 the world came together in an unheard of manner and it may well be, that fear of unification of the western world made them shift strategy. It is a plausible explanation, yet one of many.

Boy, are you in for a big surprise when you get here! No, you cannot speak your mind freely in America. If you criticize Islam, your radio talk show gets yanked off the air. If you say something truthful about Mexicans, you lose your government job. If you say the wrong thing (though it is the absolute truth), you lose the election. You cannot mention God or Jesus in your graduation speech. Your blog gets shut down if you have political commentary, and they are trying to enact laws to limit political free speech online. So no, you cannot speak your mind freely in America.

I am already here for now 13 years. And I have voiced harsh critique even in public. I have not been censored here, when I dared to point a finger at Christians, Hispanics, even our own black minority.
I am not afraid, as, if what you say is fact, then I have a ton of legal means and a great case to win in any legal court.

"You yourself have used that as an argument, that Muslims use that very exact freedom to spread their lies….."Yes, because the right of free speech is applied only to the enemies of the state and our culture. Islam is free to speak lies and propaganda and to disparage Christians and Jews without any threat of legal repercussion, but Catholic and Christian churches who simply preach their beliefs within their own church by saying they do not condone homosexuality end up with ministers and priests in jail, tax benefits lost, etc. America is a mess!

Mamma Mia, Noah – only the enemies enjoy it? Listen to yourself. As if some evil government or movement empowers only the enemies of state to pervert our freedoms. Its being perverted from all sides and corners of our society, starting with OJ Simpson to ACLU. Any form of enemy of the state is using our liberties to further their goals, not just Muslims.

"I do not allow them anything. As soon as I can vote, my voice will speak against such."And your voice will be meaningless. The goverment no longer fears the people...the people fear the goverment. Your vote cannot change things. Activist judges take upon themselves powers they are not allowed by the Constitution, and the Legislative branch does nothing to curb that usurption of power. Voting does not work. At this point, i fear only revolution can restore the USA to its Constitutional roots.

The age old excuse for any lazy whiner not to go to vote. ( Not that I call you so, I might add)
My voice does not count, is marginal, meaningless.
My stand ; Okay – put up or shut up. If everybody thought that way, then nobody will vote and no change will ever happen. If we however show up en masse, our voice will and can be heard.

The sheeple are simply not movitvated. All they care about is the latest advance in HD tv, who the movie star of the day is sleeping with, and their own convenience and comfort. Americans watch on average 5 hours of tv a day! Add to that 8 hours of sleep, 8 hours of work, and two hours travelling to and from work. That leaves one free hour per day. Television and excess entertainment is eroding our nation like few other things can.

You are right. 100%. So why not try to motivate them? Or shall we just accept it as given? It starts with school, our children. It is a huge mountain of work, but as opposed to you, I feel that it can be done.

Really? That's why a group of patriotic motorcycle bikers had to form an organization in order to protect the funerals of servicemen, whose funerals were being desecrated by cretins who were against the war? That's why professors are allowed to remain in teaching positions in American colleges while telling our children that we need a thousand more Mogadishus and that they hope our soldiers die in the deserts of Iraq?

Exceptions like that are deplorable, but not the rule.

"I stand against intolerance and any form of radicalism from any side."Dishonest argument there. There is no intolerance from my side of the fence, outside of intolerance for terror and destruction of freedom and culture, which cannot be considered a bad thing. And my solutions are not at all radical, but indeed have been used in the past, successfully.

Common denominator – we both stand against terror and destruction.
Banning of ISLAM and /or deportation on a massive scale however are strong (I call them extreme) measures. I disagree as to the "success of those" in the past. The suppressed (underground) movements survived all those regimes in the long run. Packaging of all Muslims into one category of fanatics and haters of the western civ seems naïve to say the least.

"I am a relativist of the purest form. Reality, as you call it can be looked at from different angles and a variety of different conclusions can be derived." I don't accept the theory of moral relativism in any way for any reason. Show me an instance in which the rape of a child can be a "good" thing. Show me where the cold blooded murder of a single mother with 5 children is a good thing. Show me where blowing up 3,000 innocent people, destroying at least as many families, and wrecking the economy can be considered a godo thing. You cannot, because those things are universally evil, and no amount of twisting of words or concepts can transform them into good things.

You can not stop twisting my meanings to the absurd, can you? Of course the above are examples of absolute evil. I do not deny that absolute evil exist. There is no excuse for instance for what had been done 9/11. There is no excuse for the beheading of hostages. There is no excuse for Saddam's chemical warfare..no excuse for Hitler, Stalin, Idi Amin. When I mention different conclusions, then I meant it more in terms of angles rather than 180 degrees opposite. Basically what you and I experience here, where we fundamentally agree on many dangers, examples, but my approach or solutions would take different angles.

" I challenge you to grab any paragraph out of the Koran for example ( or choose any other book) you like, then submit it to 10 different people from 10 different religious or cultural backgrounds and ask them to translate it or interprete it. Do it here as a lab experiment. You choose. My hypothesis: 10 differing interpretations. Wanna bet?" - - - - - Not at all interested. How the Koran is interpreted by the general masses is all that interests me. Clearly, it is mainly interpreted as violent. I can read all sorts of "cosmic meaning" into Dr. Seuss's Green Eggs and Ham , that does not mean it has any significance in reality.

Okay then – take a passage out of the Koran and see, how many different interpretations there are. I dare to offer the hypothesis that 10 different Muslims from 10 different environments will come up with 10 differing meanings.

" Those are superficial relationships and short term or intermittent. They do not reveal the reality of the matter. Again, try living openly as a Christian in Saudi Arabia, Iran, or the areas of Israel under control of the so-called "Palestinians". You'll quickly come to understand the reality of things, and see just how "friendly" the natives can be.

Superficial? Speak for yourself. Representative? Probably not. But am I prepared to putting these friends of mine into the same pot as Osama? Hell no!

It's you who are twisting the analogy. Yes, you can choose to love with the infection and forgo the amputation, but that would be an act of extreme stupidity, because it would result in death. Your analogy of the surgery killin the patient and the therapy being worse than the illness is inaccurate here, totally inaccurate. Removing the threat of Islam would not kill America nor would it be worse therapy than the illness itself.

Removing the threat of Islam would in my analogy seriously weaken America to say the least. Removing Islam by the means you promote would set precedence in any sense of the word and belay everything this country stands for. That therapy would make our founding fathers rotate in their graves.

Islam by its very nature is depraved and evil. There is no escaping that fact except through the escape of delusion or insanity. That does not mean all practicing Muslims are depraved, because some only practice certain aspects of the religion. But by definition a "good, practicing Muslim" is an enemy of freedom and an enemy of the USA. Furthermore, I an not condemning them but rather positing a situation in which they are forced to reform their religion or lose their privelege of living in America. Living in America is not a right, it is a privelege, and priveleges can be taken away.

I think we found the culprit, Noah. You measure Islam by the book. I measure Islam by the people who practice it. So what, if they practice only part of it. It is exactly those Muslims, I am not willing to condemn, and I believe that there are many more than you see. (here domestically)

We the People of the United States, in order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defense, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty, to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.Note the words "insure domestic tranquility",

Which we stil have to a vast extent…

"promote the general welfare" and "secure the blessings of liberty for ourselve and our posterity". All of that is accomplished by removing Islam from America. Conversely, all of that is at risk by allowing it to remain.

… Is your opinion which I do not share.

Secondly, your portrayal of my strategy as "something Hitler would be proud of" is so inaccurate as to be offensive, and I believe you're doing that intentionally. I want you to show me how the enforced deportation of a group of subversives

No Problem there, if they are. And, if it is a group of militant fanatics and not an entire people. Rounding up an entire segment of our population, just because they are Muslims ( Hence discriminate for religion), then either force them to swear off their religion or be deported, even, if they have not been proven guilty of destabilization of the state, treason or murder, is, I can not see it any other way, the way of a totalitarian regime of the worst kind.
(thanks a bunch for not putting them into a gas chamber. In that regard, true, not quite as despicable as Hitler's approach. ) Sorry for the sarcasm.

I for one am getting sick of these ridiculous, inaccurate, propaganda-strewn, thinly veiled insults of yours. It does nothing other than make you look stupid and the rest of us tired of trying to discuss this with you.

I rest my case. So much for the cold, pragmatic, logical person you describe yourself to be.
You came evidently to the realization, that I will not waiver or loose my cool, and your frustration becomes evident. I do not think that I have (intentionally) ever insulted you but tried to argue respectfully and unemotionally – maybe sometimes with a bit of sarcasm, no matter, if you did exactly what you blame me for….insulted my intelligence, patronized me or belittled me.
Why do you think that is?

"Yes – to be truthful – the examples you mentioned were unnecessary and insane. "Really? So you would have preferred to forgo the nuclear strikes and instead mount a ground invasion which would have killed millions more on both sides? Interesting! And yet you cannot deny that WWII was won in a way in which our enemies became some of our staunchest allies, whereas the weak response we have against Islam is failing to "win the hearts and minds", much less the war. "Adding insult to injury, as the outcome at that moment was predestined already." Again, wrong. There were elements in their military trying to take over and continue the war. It would have resulted in years more fighting at the cost of millions more lives.

Moot point. ( Hope I got it right this time, lol) Again a variety of differing opinions. As far as Germany is concerned I even tend to agree, as some technology may have indeed prolonged the war. In the case of Japan however, the war would not have lasted much longer. Again a tough question and certainly understandable that the US preferred to not loose another 50k soldiers but rather kill a few 100k Japanese - after all we did not start the war. I certainly will not be the judge and respect the ones having to taking this brutal decision.

There is no such thing as a utopia on earth. That's a pipe dream believed only by fools. History shows us that. Human nature shows us that.

Just a word. We progress, we evolve - hopefully for the better. One day human nature to wage war or engage in any form of violence must be overcome, otherwise sooner or later a bio weapon will be released which will extinct us. Will we evolve? Will we mature as a species? Odds are really lousy.

"I find myself appalled and helpless in the face of such extreme opinions. How can diametrically opposing cultures and religions find dialogue and compromise, if not even we, members of the same society, Western republicans can not find common ground?" Precisely why we are doomed. Is it sinking in yet?

Noah – all I can say is that I hope you are wrong. And that I am not willing to accept defeat quite yet.

You clearly don't know what you're talking about. I am hardly "fanatical" in the manner you propose. I am adamant in my views and insist on realism, I am not swayed by New Age psychobabble or moral relativist theory, and I am unrelenting in pursuing a course of action that preserves the culture and freedoms of my country.

Which is, why I respect you, even though I can not buy into your course of action.

Sure we can. Reality is the common ground of sane people. If Islam reforms itself into a peaceful religion, I have no problem with it. Our common ground should be "what must be done to promote peace, happiness, freedom, and life to both America and Islam?". And the answer to that is "reform",

So far absolutely with you.

which in reality must be an enforced reform, much like an alcoholic or drug addict needs an intervention, or a cult member needs a snapper to remove them from the cult.

Here is, where we go different ways. The "alcoholic" in your analogy must come to the realization of the need to reform. We can offer help and support in this effort, but we can not – unless directly, provenly threatened – put a gun on their chest and demand it. (I speak again in a domestic context)

Reform is the only solution because Islam as it exists will always be an enemy to freedom and to America, and their fanaticism and the seriousness of their threats demand an extreme reaction. By deporting and isolating them, we force them to either reform or to remain isolated. Either way, America and the West is spared a lot of grief, and Islam is given a chance to fix itself. My method actually lessens the chances of nuclear annihilation despite the emphasis on the willingness to use it, and spares more lives than any other method you can name.

In a cruel way your logic is stringent. Yet, I can't help myself to ask, if the "ugly Muslim" you and Susan depict is really the majority here in the US?

You say it is - I say it ain't. No compromise possible here. No resolution.

As a final comment, allow me to apologize to you, if I indeed offended you. Was never my intention.
I respect you for the clear stand you take, no matter If I can share your views or not.

At least you take a stand and try in your own way to assist preserving our way of life. Nothing more than I do too, taking a different route. To end this debate on a good note I'll try to see the common aspects:

Ø Both of us are passionate about the superiority of the system we call Democracy

Ø Both of us want to preserve our way of life

Ø Both of us see the dangers of Radical Fundamental, Muslim terrorism

Ø Both of us see a sad state of the affairs within the western society

Ø Both of us feel miserably represented by our current leaders

Ø Both of us see the US constitution being perverted

Ø We agree on IRAN, Saudi Arabia and Syria being true enemies of the USA which needed to be dealt with decisively up to and not limited to intrusive means

Ø We agree on the (terrible) MO we may be forced to take towards IRAN.

Ø We agree on strongly opposing the fanatic teachers of ISLAM a la Birmingham, wherever they appear.

Ø Both of us agree about the cowardly silence of many moderates, who by definition become guilty due to inaction.

As strongly as we seem to disagree about MO, classifications and categories, I see above as not irrelevant. If we were forced to come to an agreement, the above could be a place to start from.

You are more pessimistic in your approach and outlook (Call it realistic, if you wish), whereas I still have some optimism left (call me fool, if you wish). But abandoning hope is simply not in my design.

Reading the aforementioned article about the second holocaust we may see during the very next decade, I am distinctly afraid that you may be proven right in many things, as this would be a grim scenario with a high level of probability at present conditions.

Good luck to us all.

See ya on cloud seven.
(I am the stocky guy with the white beard, the harp in one hand and the drink in the other).

Should you come to CA - look me up ( you got my e-mail) , as I gladly buy you one.

Note: Opinions expressed in comments are those of the authors alone and not necessarily those of Daniel Pipes. Original writing only, please. Comments are screened and in some cases edited before posting. Reasoned disagreement is welcome but not comments that are scurrilous, off-topic, commercial, disparaging religions, or otherwise inappropriate. For complete regulations, see the "Guidelines for Reader Comments".


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Title Commenter Date Thread
2George Orwell : "If there was hope, it must lie in the proles." [82 words]mythJan 17, 2010 20:20167454
Beautifully said [133 words]PrashantAug 18, 2016 22:43167454
3How the West Could Lose [168 words]AnneSep 20, 2008 10:59138894
Interesting point of view... [85 words]TousifOct 21, 2009 02:53138894
1how the west could lose [78 words]jamesJun 21, 2010 23:48138894
4How the West could lose. I think you will be surprised at the final outcome. response to James. [101 words]Anne-USAJun 23, 2010 16:43138894
how the west could lost - response to Anne [67 words]jamesJun 24, 2010 01:12138894
1How the West Lost- There will be evil in the last days, we expect rough times. response to James [354 words]Anne- USAJun 24, 2010 19:26138894
1the left wing must be stopped and exposed [36 words]stefanoMar 4, 2008 00:21121684
The Leftwing must be stopped and exposed-----by Stephano [345 words]DebbieJul 20, 2008 10:16121684
Really America, really? [49 words]JasnaDec 26, 2008 20:14121684
1how many more must die... before we all see ? [180 words]Phil GreendOct 6, 2007 18:51110560
We need to put aside political correctness and discuss Islam [365 words]Dennis GravesSep 11, 2007 15:22108556
counter thought... [123 words]donvanOct 18, 2007 09:24108556
2ISLAM NOT A RELIGION OF PEACE. [3 words]Nina NiaziOct 19, 2007 19:24108556
1We, the People. [122 words]Linda HaslamOct 20, 2007 00:16108556
1right on brother! [375 words]kid berthaNov 5, 2007 15:19108556
islam not a religon of peace [158 words]Nina niaziNov 20, 2007 10:06108556
1Brits deserve it!!! [186 words]JaladhiNov 20, 2007 20:22108556
3Islam: Religion of Peace? [85 words]Linda HaslamNov 27, 2007 09:42108556
2ISLAM NOT A RELIGION OF PEACE [207 words]nina niaziDec 2, 2007 17:40108556
God's children??? [139 words]Linda HaslamDec 6, 2007 11:11108556
2Jaladhi get an education old chap! [177 words]Leven-TorresApr 14, 2008 09:04108556
1try to learn scripture first [36 words]johnMay 18, 2008 05:02108556
1Don't misquote the Qur'an please. [832 words]KeithJul 22, 2008 18:22108556
islam excuses [2162 words]paul dunnNov 28, 2008 17:42108556
don't make any illusions [122 words]SunaJan 18, 2010 15:26108556
Ignorance: a dangerous thing [78 words]HamiyetMay 6, 2012 16:07108556
The War that we are Fighting [1925 words]Major DaveMay 23, 2007 17:3894113
My average American's opinion [768 words]kid berthaJun 12, 2007 16:1994113
So what is your solution? [1942 words]Major DaveJun 12, 2007 23:5394113
misunderstood [1256 words]kid berthaJun 14, 2007 11:1894113
My Respect [341 words]MichelAug 25, 2007 15:0694113
Oh, boy......... [76 words]Nick4693Sep 13, 2007 19:5294113
1ISLAM NOT A RELIGION OF PEACE. [156 words]Nina NiaziOct 19, 2007 16:3694113
1Nina is correct. [432 words]kid berthaNov 5, 2007 14:4394113
ISLAM NOT A RELIGION OF PEACE [114 words]NinaNov 7, 2007 18:1994113
bravo [110 words]kcOct 21, 2009 01:0394113
Islam is not a relgion of Peace [20 words]sahilApr 10, 2011 13:5694113
2Monotheism vs Polytheism [225 words]IndianMay 17, 2007 03:5993309
Very right but still slightly off. [140 words]True-IndianSep 22, 2007 11:2693309
what is the truth? [51 words]najeebSep 15, 2009 09:1293309
Shiites [59 words]Dr Erich MeyerMay 8, 2007 23:5892175
1Why US should attack Islamic Iran now ??? [642 words]ShivaMay 4, 2007 10:1591639
1Finally a factual message has been posted [372 words]kid berthaMay 5, 2007 09:3291639
1Right on! [332 words]Nick4693Sep 13, 2007 22:5291639
there's no why! [84 words]SunaJan 18, 2010 15:3691639
Plato [302 words]SohailApr 22, 2007 06:2090156
To Sohail: All mixed up [210 words]PlatoApr 23, 2007 08:4390156
So why should the West be the winner???? [2 words]aliApr 16, 2007 10:0089384
Answers for Ali [93 words]Noah WilkApr 19, 2007 18:3889384
how i see it [74 words]warnerApr 20, 2007 01:0189384
Ali your answer is in the Taliban video [99 words]PlatoApr 22, 2007 01:5889384
Three words for you [3 words]RJMay 1, 2007 00:0889384
How the West could lose: Reply to Mr.Ali. [47 words]Jaisingh ThakurJul 13, 2007 00:1689384
Why [35 words]aliJul 21, 2007 14:3489384
No... [93 words]adfJul 20, 2008 15:1789384
3why most of iranian hate arabs and islam? [17 words]persianDec 16, 2008 17:3189384
iranians hate arabs [4 words]joeSep 11, 2009 17:5189384
To Be the Big Dog or Not [628 words]MichaelApr 11, 2007 11:4989023
A muslim duty [581 words]moderate MuslimApr 7, 2007 00:0088762
Reality check and fantasy [50 words]dhimmi no moreApr 7, 2007 18:1488762
make no sense [14 words]moderate MuslimApr 8, 2007 22:2288762
Yes I read it in Arabic a language that you do not know [27 words]dhimmi no moreApr 9, 2007 18:0988762
Honest answers, please! [343 words]Nick4693Sep 11, 2007 19:5788762
Now one question [106 words]moderate MuslimApr 6, 2007 23:3388757
M&M and his bogus context again and Q9:4 or 5 if you wish [53 words]dhimmi no moreApr 7, 2007 18:5188757
i dont even know [228 words]a muslim americanMar 27, 2007 22:1888086
Our dear M&M and Islamic meltdown part deux [19 words]dhimmi no moreMar 28, 2007 17:1588086
1A NORMAL MUSLIM... [341 words]DONVANApr 5, 2007 14:0488086
oil and water [86 words]todd morrisonOct 16, 2007 23:2588086
wow.... [51 words]moderate MuslimMar 27, 2007 15:3388065
It says ya ayuha al-nass! [105 words]dhimmi no moreMar 29, 2007 17:5788065
dhimmi, READ YOUR OWN EVIDENCE FIRST [225 words]moderate MuslimMar 30, 2007 19:3088065
For Our dear M&M and his bogus arabic and the Qur'an really says that islam is the religion of the Arabs only and you ain't one [718 words]dhimmi no moreApr 2, 2007 19:4188065
The poor Arabic translation of Picktall another wannabe Arab! [446 words]dhimmi no moreApr 3, 2007 07:2688065
For our dear M&m and argument from silence! And Islam is indeed the religion of the Hijazi Arabs as per Q14:4 and you ain't one [30 words]dhimmi no moreApr 5, 2007 18:1488065
One more time pt 2 [243 words]moderate MuslimMar 26, 2007 19:2788016
fantasy world of islam [286 words]susanMar 28, 2007 15:2688016
Still in denial, "Moderate" Muslim [357 words]Noah WilkMar 28, 2007 16:5988016
yeah ok [26 words]moderate MuslimMar 28, 2007 19:1988016
3Why are you making excuses, Moderate Muslim? [322 words]Noah WilkMar 31, 2007 17:5688016
were you at the rallies? [40 words]susanApr 1, 2007 10:0388016
Ok, so What? [11 words]moderate MuslimApr 2, 2007 19:0388016
the usual cheap excuse [11 words]susanApr 3, 2007 02:5688016
Ignorance is no excuse [168 words]Noah WilkApr 5, 2007 14:5188016
I will not stand for hate. [42 words]moderate MuslimApr 6, 2007 23:3688016
Moderate Muslim corners himself! [393 words]Noah WilkApr 7, 2007 16:2488016
Misunderstanding [311 words]moderate MuslimApr 7, 2007 21:1588016
easy [51 words]susanApr 8, 2007 07:1888016
the 1960's [27 words]moderate MuslimApr 8, 2007 22:2488016
not an "image" problem [297 words]susanApr 9, 2007 07:2088016
Speaking of hate and the Qur'an [83 words]dhimmi no moreApr 9, 2007 18:1988016
Why not burn effigies? [80 words]Noah WilkApr 9, 2007 20:5288016
noah [62 words]moderate MuslimApr 10, 2007 21:4888016
Back to Morous (12 seconds on the shot clock) [3677 words]moderate MuslimMar 25, 2007 22:1287974
Our dear M&M and cut and paste jobs Paki/Arabic and the bogus hadith! [522 words]dhimmi no moreMar 27, 2007 20:2387974
an addendum and my source for the hadith literary criticism [20 words]dhimmi no moreMar 28, 2007 07:0687974
My compliments to the sheik (morous 360 dunk in moderate's face, the crowd goes wild) [1370 words]MOROUSMar 28, 2007 16:3987974
To Moderate Muslim: [894 words]PlatoMar 30, 2007 04:2287974
No, I respect many [89 words]moderate MuslimMar 30, 2007 19:2587974
To Moderate Muslim: But Allah hates other religions [234 words]PlatoApr 1, 2007 02:0587974
numbers matter [54 words]susanApr 1, 2007 10:1387974
Here's your answer Plato [129 words]moderate MuslimApr 2, 2007 19:0987974
heh, ok right, that is so bogus [40 words]moderate MuslimApr 2, 2007 19:2487974
let's start from... [46 words]susanApr 3, 2007 03:1587974
And speaking of bogus! [86 words]dhimmi no moreApr 4, 2007 17:2987974
your answer [535 words](moderate) Muslim (though all real Muslims are moderate)Apr 5, 2007 22:0887974
christian arabs are first victims of muslims [243 words]susanApr 8, 2007 07:2687974
Islam and Terror [1398 words]moderate Muslim AmericanMar 22, 2007 17:4387720
Hamza Yusuf a Muslim scholar? LOL! [187 words]dhimmi no moreMar 23, 2007 19:2287720
5Nothing's more fun than debunking "Muslim Logic" [2959 words]Noah WilkMar 23, 2007 21:1887720
To Moderate Muslim: It is just a wish-list you have given us [2577 words]PlatoMar 24, 2007 06:4087720
M&M and David Chappelle exposed [147 words]dhimmi no moreMar 25, 2007 09:1487720
high muslim clerics agree with bin laden [394 words]susanMar 27, 2007 15:2487720
ok? [44 words]moderate Muslim-Mar 27, 2007 22:0087720
you just proved how ignorant islamphobes are [82 words]Islamophobic ignoranceMar 28, 2007 15:2687720
Precisely why we condemn you [380 words]Noah WilkMar 28, 2007 17:1887720
The little olive institute [32 words]dhimmi no moreMar 28, 2007 17:4587720
Our dear M&M and Yusuf Hamza's ancestry [25 words]dhimmi no moreMar 28, 2007 17:5187720
thanks.. [8 words]moderate MuslimMar 28, 2007 19:2087720
Islamophobia, really? [298 words]dhimmi no moreMar 29, 2007 07:2287720
Because , the most comfortable position for a coward is to struggle to be portrayed a "moderate" (&) Moslem. [611 words]Ynna(tchkah)Mar 29, 2007 13:4087720
poor reply [71 words]susanMar 29, 2007 13:4287720
like you said something... [91 words]susanMar 29, 2007 13:5087720
we need ears to listen and eyes to see [252 words]Islamophobia no more...Mar 29, 2007 16:3887720
chechnya is sufi [20 words]susanApr 1, 2007 10:1487720
I dont think you get it (Ynna (tchkah) [129 words]moderate MuslimApr 2, 2007 19:2387720
and why? [41 words]moderate MuslimApr 2, 2007 19:2787720
Our dear Islamophobia no more and his little diatribes [48 words]dhimmi no moreApr 2, 2007 19:5487720
Congratulations for not going to work to CAIR [108 words]Ynna (tchkah)Apr 3, 2007 03:0287720
skewed perception of Islamophobes [138 words]Islamophobia no moreApr 3, 2007 03:0387720
africa's fault is african [146 words]susanApr 3, 2007 03:2287720
an Islamophobe [259 words]Islamophobia no moreApr 3, 2007 03:3287720
cair wants sharia [39 words]susanApr 3, 2007 03:3987720
More diatribes from our dear INM aka M&M [103 words]dhimmi no moreApr 3, 2007 18:4387720
YOU DON'T GET THE POINT [19 words]moderate MuslimApr 3, 2007 20:2787720
For our dear INM and what is an Islamophobe part deux [343 words]dhimmi no moreApr 4, 2007 07:5387720
no matter how you turn it [67 words]susanApr 4, 2007 14:5187720
nobody is irrationally vilifying islam [234 words]susanApr 4, 2007 15:0887720
sharia allows slavery [18 words]susanApr 4, 2007 17:3987720
Dropping names and Si, comprende mucho! [111 words]dhimmi no moreApr 4, 2007 17:4887720
fallacy of bias history-reading [108 words]Islamophobia no moreApr 5, 2007 01:5987720
islamophobia, the stupidest word ever invented [124 words]susanApr 5, 2007 16:3087720
Cair and other people [171 words]moderate MuslimApr 5, 2007 22:1587720
CAIR [374 words]Noah WilkApr 6, 2007 14:5587720
Why then do you support it? [290 words]Noah WilkApr 6, 2007 15:0387720
cair = sharia = stone age [70 words]susanApr 6, 2007 15:1987720
Noah [124 words]moderate MuslimApr 6, 2007 23:4087720
M&M CAIR (big time LOL) and his flawed logic! [344 words]dhimmi no moreApr 7, 2007 08:3787720
Yes, Moderate Muslim, you ARE responsible! [516 words]Noah WilkApr 7, 2007 16:4587720
ROTFL [44 words]dhimmi no moreApr 7, 2007 18:3787720
al-Shari3a [10 words]dhimmi no moreApr 7, 2007 18:3987720
CAIR and mockery [26 words]dhimmi no moreApr 8, 2007 11:4087720
i'll see [37 words]moderate MuslimApr 8, 2007 22:3487720
Why aren't moderate muslims standing up? [55 words]Bob SterlingAug 20, 2007 23:5187720
why should the west win anyways if it continues with its current programme of warmongering? [434 words]cocoMay 6, 2009 12:0187720
islam & terror [627 words]John EdwardsOct 27, 2009 15:1387720
so here are you answers more if you want em [29 words]moderate MuslimMar 20, 2007 19:3287302
Moderate Muslim fails again! [1415 words]Noah WilkMar 21, 2007 15:3287302
mauritania has got legal slavery, allowed in islam [15 words]susanMar 21, 2007 16:5787302
MM [230 words]JaladhiMar 21, 2007 18:0187302
handshake with Kuffar? "Muslim debate schemes" and other sordid matters! [599 words]dhimmi no moreMar 22, 2007 07:5187302
morocco 50% literacy rate [18 words]susanMar 22, 2007 10:0387302
"Muslim debate schemes"! part deux [452 words]dhimmi no moreMar 24, 2007 14:1087302
Dhimmi No More - defenders of the faith have left town!!! [40 words]JaladhiMar 26, 2007 16:5687302
Your answer Plato (which is a really bad name for you, because it dishonores someone who actually thought [169 words]Moderate MuslimMar 20, 2007 19:1887298
Was the post for me? [45 words]PlatoMar 21, 2007 08:3087298
Try paying attention, Moderate Muslim [570 words]Noah WilkMar 21, 2007 17:5587298
blatantly clear? LOL [178 words]dhimmi no moreMar 21, 2007 19:5087298
To MM: Would Mohammed be a good name for me? [130 words]PlatoMar 22, 2007 14:0087298
you guys hate the truth, dontcha [23 words]moderate MuslimMar 22, 2007 17:1087298
clarification [36 words]Moderate MuslimMar 22, 2007 17:1287298
No, Im not beyond help, although I dont need much [73 words]moderate MuslimMar 22, 2007 17:1587298
Free will in islam? LOL [379 words]dhimmi no moreMar 24, 2007 08:1587298
you like lies don'tcha? [148 words]susanMar 25, 2007 10:2187298
To Syed [17 words]moderate MuslimMar 16, 2007 19:3086570
LOL syed is asking for caliphate [8 words]susanMar 18, 2007 10:1686570
Syed? LOL He has no credibility! [172 words]dhimmi no moreMar 18, 2007 12:5086570
Syeds are not Iranians?? [83 words]JaladhiMar 19, 2007 17:1886570
What? [35 words]moderate MuslimMar 19, 2007 19:2486570
For our dear M&M and islam [73 words]dhimmi no moreMar 20, 2007 17:4886570
To Moderate Muslim: Spreading Islam by avoiding unpleasant facts [389 words]PlatoMar 22, 2007 13:3586570
Sure, Syed's the perfect choice [230 words]JeffMar 27, 2007 18:2386570
i wasnt..... [77 words]moderate MuslimMar 27, 2007 22:0286570
THE JOKE'S ON YOU (DHIMMI) [32 words]moderate MuslimMar 16, 2007 19:2786568
And your point is? [244 words]dhimmi no moreMar 18, 2007 12:4086568
You dont know me, you dont even care [110 words]moderate MuslimMar 19, 2007 19:3686568
avoiding the sex slaves matter [52 words]susanMar 20, 2007 16:1186568
Uno Questiono por legion of doom [36 words]moderate MuslimMar 16, 2007 19:2586566
To Moderate Muslim: Global warming a belief? [63 words]PlatoMar 17, 2007 23:1186566
The Official Stance of the Legion of Doom On Global Warming [59 words]Noah WilkMar 18, 2007 10:1786566
youre just not answering [43 words]moderate MuslimMar 19, 2007 19:2986566
heheh, thanks plato [25 words]moderate MuslimMar 19, 2007 19:3086566
You were indeed given an answer [209 words]Noah WilkMar 20, 2007 15:2986566
They're not scared [107 words]Noah WilkMar 20, 2007 15:3686566
sex slaves conspiracy [101 words]susanMar 20, 2007 16:1486566
?? [72 words]moderate MuslimMar 22, 2007 17:1986566
Yes, you are on trial [223 words]Noah WilkMar 23, 2007 18:5786566
islam is not on trial, it's already convicted [14 words]susanMar 25, 2007 10:2686566
heh please [45 words]moderate MuslimMar 26, 2007 19:1686566
Spain and Arabian imperialism and justifying the absurd [69 words]dhimmi no moreMar 27, 2007 20:4886566
spain? islam flourished? [2978 words]susanMar 28, 2007 02:5786566
Islam is peace [103 words]moderate MuslimMar 14, 2007 21:3686334
disproved [331 words]susanMar 15, 2007 16:2486334
Islam and violence and silence [116 words]dhimmi no moreMar 18, 2007 17:3486334
uh NO [7 words]moderate MuslimMar 19, 2007 19:2586334
Our dear M&M has never been to a madrassa! [81 words]dhimmi no moreMar 24, 2007 14:2286334
A Peaceful Muslim Country (oh my) [259 words]moderate MuslimMar 11, 2007 21:2185929
...muslim [492 words]susanMar 12, 2007 18:3085929
very poor example [255 words]susanMar 12, 2007 18:4085929
Dave Chapelle? and who the heck is he? And why should we like him or hate him for this matter [235 words]dhimmi no moreMar 12, 2007 19:3985929
MALAYSIA A PEACEFUL MUSLIM COUNTRY???LOL [110 words]MOROUSMar 13, 2007 16:5385929
Malaysia is Saudi Arabia of East [142 words]JaladhiMar 13, 2007 19:1385929
Talking points, pillars, quibbles, quotes, examples, and some words of wisdom from the kennedys. [972 words]moderate MuslimMar 13, 2007 19:3285929
MY EMAILS? [13 words]muslimMar 13, 2007 21:2385929
Malaysia is Saudi Arabia of East - Pt. 2 [133 words]JaladhiMar 14, 2007 16:2785929
The good ole pillars of islam! [84 words]dhimmi no moreMar 14, 2007 16:4385929
kennedy quote? [659 words]susanMar 14, 2007 16:4485929
why does everyone not get it [32 words]moderate MuslimMar 14, 2007 19:4085929
huh?? [339 words]morousMar 15, 2007 12:2285929
Our dear M&M and you ain't Muqatil [61 words]dhimmi no moreMar 15, 2007 20:0485929
To Morous-Clarify a few things [291 words]moderate MuslimMar 15, 2007 21:2585929
your clarification Moderate [664 words]MorousMar 17, 2007 11:4685929
one clarification: malaysia has got sharia law [41 words]susanMar 18, 2007 10:1985929
literal interpretation [68 words]susanMar 18, 2007 10:2285929
Reply to Reply : morous [116 words]moderate MuslimMar 18, 2007 17:1585929
women as humans? [31 words]susanMar 20, 2007 04:5185929
It's Back in your court MODERATE [616 words]MorousMar 20, 2007 13:2585929
Malaysia? [171 words]surjApr 20, 2007 22:3485929
More Answers (Aisha) (ra) [2787 words]moderate MuslimMar 11, 2007 21:0685919
aisha the child [103 words]susanMar 12, 2007 18:3385919
To Moderate Muslim: Hiding the shame of Aisha's age and a Maulana abrogates 9:29 [989 words]PlatoMar 13, 2007 01:1385919
3A'isha and real history! and playing with dolls! [648 words]dhimmi no moreMar 13, 2007 07:2885919
Lies will not change historical age of Aisha at the time of her marriage [157 words]JaladhiMar 20, 2007 15:4385919
The Ultimate Post- No Hiding, No Crying, Just Answers [8353 words]moderate MuslimMar 8, 2007 22:1385330
I'm cherry picking Moderate Muslim's huge post [2178 words]Noah WilkMar 9, 2007 04:1485330
For our dear M&M and his bogus command of Islamic theology [454 words]dhimmi no moreMar 9, 2007 18:0085330
To Moderate Muslim: Ethical basis of Islam and the thrashing of women by men [2001 words]PlatoMar 10, 2007 07:3085330
For our dear Moderate Msulim and what is really a moderate Muslim?And other sordid matters [885 words]dhimmi no moreMar 10, 2007 07:4085330
More Answers-To Dhimmi [293 words]moderate MuslimMar 10, 2007 13:2085330
Our dear M&M and he is really a "bait"? and Jihad or holy war revisited part deux [653 words]dhimmi no moreMar 10, 2007 14:1585330
moderate [592 words]susanMar 10, 2007 15:0185330
For our dear M&M and Q2:216 ...part one! [832 words]dhimmi no moreMar 11, 2007 09:2885330
dhimmi ... [26 words]susanMar 11, 2007 10:3985330
For our dear M&M and Q9:4 part deux! [541 words]dhimmi no moreMar 11, 2007 14:4185330
moderate Muslim [61 words]moderate MuslimMar 11, 2007 17:4285330
Condemnable Offenses. Controlling Men [91 words]moderate MuslimMar 11, 2007 17:4585330
you have no idea what a race is again [13 words]susanMar 12, 2007 03:3885330
M&M and more fantasy [262 words]dhimmi no moreMar 12, 2007 07:5285330
To Moderate Muslim: Fight to make your neighbours submit to Allah [179 words]PlatoMar 12, 2007 10:1585330
response to moderate muslim [555 words]morousMar 12, 2007 16:2585330
invented by modern people? [111 words]susanMar 12, 2007 18:3085330
yeah, so? [97 words]moderate MuslimMar 12, 2007 19:2485330
To Moderate Muslim: On rape and chopping off hands [583 words]PlatoMar 12, 2007 23:1885330
Uh no [17 words]moderate MuslimMar 13, 2007 19:3385330
the joke is on you morous [36 words]moderate MuslimMar 13, 2007 19:3685330
Hypocritical Muslim [56 words]Noah WilkMar 13, 2007 20:4385330
origins [183 words]dhimmi no moreMar 13, 2007 21:5885330
Racism! Really? [147 words]dhimmi no moreMar 14, 2007 12:3185330
i am 100% correct [57 words]susanMar 14, 2007 16:2285330
More evidence [47 words]dhimmi no moreMar 14, 2007 16:5685330
Hypocrisy - thy name is.... [46 words]JaladhiMar 14, 2007 17:3185330
1Jesus is god? [26 words]moderate muslimMar 14, 2007 19:3185330
not quite making sense - at all [129 words]moderate MuslimMar 14, 2007 19:3785330
lies [30 words]moderate MuslimMar 14, 2007 19:3885330
His words? [226 words]dhimmi no moreMar 15, 2007 07:3985330
Muslims suppress free debate on anti Semitism at Leeds University, UK [163 words]DelboyMar 15, 2007 09:4985330
MM [135 words]susanMar 15, 2007 16:1485330
2My dear M&M and i'm glad that you asked and the Qur'an really says that Jesus is God! [93 words]dhimmi no moreMar 15, 2007 19:5985330
Uh what? [38 words]moderate MuslimMar 16, 2007 19:2185330
MM - Read Dhimmi No More's(who knows Arabic) posts to understand Q9:4 [92 words]JaladhiMar 19, 2007 17:4885330
Respond to what? [58 words]dhimmi no moreMar 19, 2007 20:1485330
For our dear M&M and the Qur'an really says that jesus is God and the bogus tawheed [140 words]dhimmi no moreMar 20, 2007 07:5185330
THAT'S NOT WHAT THE KORAN SAYS [22 words]MOROUSMar 20, 2007 14:0285330
The fundamentally faulty logic of the person called dhimmi no more [201 words]moderate MuslimMar 20, 2007 19:0185330
Astaghfirullah is M&M's lame answer [239 words]dhimmi no moreMar 23, 2007 07:2885330
Flat? Hardly [31 words]Moderate MuslimMar 25, 2007 21:5385330
Hand Chopping and Adultery [74 words]Mukhtar Ahmed KashifJul 30, 2009 12:4785330
Why I am proud to be a member of the Legion of Doom! [354 words]Noah WilkMar 8, 2007 21:0985321
The wake up call [15 words]Moderate MuslimFeb 26, 2007 16:2579077
You're talking, but you're not saying anything, Moderate Muslim [499 words]Noah WilkFeb 26, 2007 20:3579077
PEACEFUL NATION? YEAH, COMPARED TO THE HUNS [53 words]Moderate MuslimFeb 28, 2007 07:3279077
homework for moderate muslim [155 words]susanFeb 28, 2007 15:3479077
MM, you very well described actions of Muslims [98 words]JaladhiFeb 28, 2007 17:4279077
mob muslim contradiction [97 words]susanFeb 28, 2007 18:1079077
to mod.muslim [145 words]AnnaFeb 28, 2007 19:3479077
Susan [507 words]Moderate MuslimFeb 28, 2007 20:3479077
For our dear M&M and more fantasy [371 words]dhimmi no moreMar 1, 2007 06:0279077
peace.. [125 words]donvanMar 1, 2007 09:1879077
YES [87 words]Moderate MuslimMar 1, 2007 19:5079077
Strive to forgive what? [15 words]dhimmi no moreMar 2, 2007 17:2279077
don't believe you [65 words]susanMar 3, 2007 12:4879077
Response to Susan [153 words]moderate MuslimMar 5, 2007 20:0779077
educated fanatics.. [14 words]donvanMar 6, 2007 15:0079077
Anti-Semitic propaganda from our "Moderate" Muslim [340 words]Noah WilkMar 7, 2007 12:5179077
so many mistakes again [263 words]susanMar 7, 2007 15:0279077

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