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Reader comment on item: How the West Could Lose
in response to reader comment: Denial or ignorance?

Submitted by Michel (United States), Jan 23, 2007 at 20:20

Submitted by Noah Wilk, Jan 22, 2007 at 03:14

Noah – We are going in circles but a few of your comments can not stand unanswered, as you fall into the trap sometimes to take me verbatim and do not see the meaning of what I try to convey.

"If this inaction, passiveness demonstrated by the UK authorities is indeed representative for much of the Western Society ( you did indeed mount tons of evidence to that fact)""If" this inaction is representative? Either you've been living in a cave for 6 years, or you are in denial of reality. I'm asking you which, because if you're in denial, there's no point in going on with discussion with you, whereas if you are simply ignorant of reality, we can at least get you up to speed!

Let me rephrase for you: I lament this inaction as much as you do. Period.

"They condemned and negated these teachings almost as passionately, as you or I do. But they were Muslims."A very rare exception to the rule. Remember that.

Even if admittedly rare, reason for hope. One single example like that deserves in my book fair treatment.
Analogy: I am N O T willing to bomb a house full of Serial Killers to the ground, if there is one innocent child inside.
You can not call me in above analogy right or wrong. You can either share or not share my philosophy.

"Implement your solution I can not carry, as it belays the good achievements of our society. It betrays our principles."How do you figure? Go read that article again. It does not belay the good achievements of our society. It does not betray our principles.

I am today preparing for my Naturalization test. "All men are created equal", Bill of rights. Your MO is in direct contradiction to the US constitution.

It would not be a Pyrrhic victory. We could you low-yield nukes that explode underground (as Israel is planning) to take out their sites, which means very little fallout. After taking out their military and population centers with precision air strikes, they would be crippled militarily and we would have no problem taking Iran on the ground. The point is, you cannot fight with two hands tied behind your back as we are in Iraq. We'd need to bomb them into the stone age and completely destroy them. When we send ground troops in, there would be very few left to fight, with little or no armament. We would of course sieze the oil fields and claim them as our own to offset the price of the war. In fact, we could come out ahead on that.

I am starting to doubt your military background, Noah.

What is "very little" fall out? Will you concede that that fall out of a strike even with low yield bunker busting, precision targeted smart delivery systems on the level needed to take out just 3 out of 20 (optimistic estimate) targets, would result in a fall out far greater than for instance Tschernobyl? Can you even fathom, what that fall out would do to a region of 1500miles? There is not enough grain in the world to make up for just the crops lost in this region. For decades after, genetic defects throughout the entire region including Europe. The crater such a bunker buster opens is 50 yards wide, for God's sake.Enough to send massive amounts of nuclear radiation upwards into the atmosphere. It would take several times Hiroshima levels to break through, down and destroy wide. Study the specs, if you can access them. Some of the stuff is by now declassified and you should be able to find them.

"We can influence our legislation. I become US citizen, so I can vote. We can stand up and voice opposition, wherever the achievements of our democracy are being perverted. We can lead by example."Wrong. Politicians in both parties are totally corrupt and do not listen to the will of their constituents. Something like 85% of Americans are against amnesty for illegal aliens, and yet both parties are pushing for that. Our government is owned by foreign and global interests. The entire government would need to be replaced from the top down in order to have a chance.

So you propose a totalitarian system? If you are right and 85% of the US population are against amnesty, then it will not pass. If they do not vote, they do not have a right to complain.
While I agree with you on the need for a fundamental overhaul of our system, I state that we have the right to vote and change the environment we live in. I intend to take full advantage of that right.

If that's true, then why, even in this very post I am replying to, do you doubt reality despite being given an overwhelming amount of evidence?

Why is this so hard for you to understand, that I do N O T refute most of your examples, quotes and or references, but actually accept them as a fact. I just do not see those as 100% representative for the entire Muslim World. And I see your MO as not feasible, too radical and too simplistic.

As for your "evidence" of societal strength, let's shoot them down like plinking cans in the prairie.
"The ability to distilling down the failure of Challenger to one measly O-Ring." Scientific investigation by a small group of scientists. Not evidence of societal stength by any measure.

You took me verbatim again, as I used this as an example for the relentless effort of some of our people to find root causes for any problems and never stop until a remedy is found. "Continuous (quality) improvement designed into most modern western corporations as integral part of a 21st century business – after all part of our modern society – or not?

" The power of innovation demonstrated by our society, which will make us independant from middle east oil in a foreseeable future."Again, pure delusion. The internal combustion engine has been obsolete for over half a century. Every president since...ummm...Kennedy?...maybe even before him, but every president since has sworn that in several years we would be independent of foreign oil.

Fact of life – not until the pressure becomes unbearable, are we willing to adapt. Have you looked at the sales of Trucks and Hummers in the US lately? The rise of the Toyota Prius? Look at what's currently driving around in any Western Europe Capital ( 2 seaters, 60m/g ). Look at the recycling efforts in Germany or Switzerland at present at up to 80%. The development of Solar and wind technology. Once again, you focus on what's not happening, yet fail to see the positive developments. Most western innovations after all.

So where has this "power of innovation" been hiding for more than a quarter of a century, and why do we still have utter dependence on oil? Why is virtually no one outside of a few Hollywood environmentalists driving hydrogen fuel or electric cars? Once again, denial or ignorance of reality.

Denial goes both ways, Noah. Reduction of dependence on middle eastern Oil to 20% (USA) is utter?
Been on the streets of LA lately? More and more solar panels in CA? Stock development of Hi tech corps dealing in alternative energies? For heaven's sakes, I am not denying that we have a long way to go and are nowhere near elimination of the dependency, but there is clear evidence as to a will to reduce it. If you call such inexistent, then it's you who is in denial.

" The leap frog in military strategy during the original IRAK campaign"
And yet, a rag-tag bunch of nearly starved Ethiopian soldiers is doing a far better job than we are with combatting Islamic terrorists. Why is that? It took us less time to take out Hitler and Japan.

Apples and oranges. One-dimensional.
The campaign in Irak was a master piece of conventional warfare, demonstrating the ability to adapt to any kind of enemy and minimize casualties.
3000 dead soldiers are deplorable, but in the big picture, nothing.
Not one single terror attack since 9/11 here in a very vulnerable country is one hell of an achievement by the"War On Terror"

" Billions of $ for the Tsunami victims coming from every corner of the globe"
Not a sign of strength, but a sign of sympathy and stupidity. Most of those countries that were hit were Islamic, and we stupidly sent money there. They will not love us for that. They'll take the money, and continue hating us. That relief fund was a sign of weakness and I would not donate a single penny to it.

Another misread example, which was meant to demonstrate, that it is still possible to get a unified world, if there is cause. As far as the factual support goes – we agree to disagree.

" The space station and the Dreamliner. The medical improvements just during the last 10 years. The IT revolution causing the "information Age"Again, all scientific or technological achievements, but not a sign of societal strength. " Our discussion we have without fear of being thrown into a Gulag"A sign of the strength of our forefathers, but that right of free speech is being eroded daily. A sign of how weak we've gotten, when we cannot speak our minds freely even in America." The fact that some complete idiots are allowed to promote removing "under God" from the Pledge of Allegiance"Another sign of weakness, not strength. We cater to whiners because they're "offended" by things they do not agree with. How do you see this as strength?

If above results and developments can not be seen as "societal", what can?
You can not speak your mind freely in America? You yourself have used that as an argument, that Muslims use that very exact freedom to spread their lies…..
Lastly – I precisely used the relativism of above as evidence, that weakness and strength are interchangeable attributes, depending on, where you come from: The defender of our democracy can argue that "any citizen has the right to petition the government ( even , if it is a stupid, idiotic petition), whereas the Noahs will use it as a sign of weakness.

And you conveniently ignore the fact that Americans are allowing a steady erosion of their rights and freedoms every day. We allow government to pervert emminent domain laws, we allow illegal aliens to corrupt our culture and devastate our economy, we allow Congressmen to swear into office on the battle manual of the enemy, we refuse to speak the plain and simple truth about Islam...need I go on?

I do not allow them anything. As soon as I can vote, my voice will speak against such. I can not deny that our passiveness has led to perversions and the impression you describe above. But it still is in the hands of the people to stand up against, partake in the political process instead of simply complaining.

Michel, I have news for you. A society's strength is measured by how much the people care about their culture, about how much they are willing to sacrifice for their nation, about how aware they are of their Constitutional rights and how far they are willing to go to preserve those rights. We're a pathetically weak society now. When we reached 2,500 military deaths in Iraq (currently 3,000), we lost our national will to fight and elected the democrats as a referendum on Bush's policies (that was a stupid way of doing it!). We lost far more in a far shorter time in WWII!

Can't argue with anything here. The state of our affairs is deplorable. I do not deny it.

Don't talk to me about the strength of our society. That's a joke.

The patient is in a coma – I said it myself many times. But just take the immediate aftermath of 9/11.
We had the support of the entire Western World. We were unified (again). America stood like one man and up to this day, Gulf war veterans enjoy moral support on the home front like no Vietnam vet ever did
It took some very tragic decisions and a leader who alienated instead of unified, to erode that support to literally nothing. As much as I weep about the bankruptcy Reagan led us into, I sure dare to venture, if he was our President now, the Western World would have unified behind the flag of democracy, as they did, when fighting Hitler. In consequence, Iraq, Syria, Iran would not be a topic of discussion today.

That's "moot" point. "Mute" means not being able to speak. Sorry, that's been bugging me for days now.
Sorry – English as my 5th language is still a work in progress. Sadly even my German or French sounds in the meantime like Esperanto too. But thanks for helping out here.

"Like I said, it comes off like a game, coming from you. You seem to simply enjoy arguing although you refuse to acknowledge reality in each post, even while admitting that others have given you overwhelming evidence of that reality.

Another sad misconception, I seem to be unable to correct. Maybe if I use simple straight forward statements, I can clarify:

Ø I do not see it as a game. Deadly serious in fact.

Ø I enjoy a good debate – no denial here

Ø I accept most of your evidence as true

Ø I stand against intolerance and any form of radicalism from any side.

Ø I see one single example of positive as reason for hope and entry point for constructive approaches

Ø I am a relativist of the purest form. Reality, as you call it can be looked at from different angles and a variety of different conclusions can be derived.
I challenge you to grabb any paragraph out of the Koran for example ( or choose any other book) you like, then submit it to 10 different people from 10 different religious or cultural backgrounds and ask them to translate it or interprete it. Do it here as a lab experiment. You choose. My hypothesis: 10 differing interpretations. Wanna bet?

Your claim of travelling the world and searching out all these poor ghettos and villages is not very convincing, I'm afraid. Earlier you spoke of travelling on business. What is your business, the Red Cross? I think Susan pegged it right with her two group theory, and I suspect you fit into group two.

I responded truthfully to Susan's "profile". In addition I may state, that ( mentioned in one of my posts) I was mostly "on business – . During the last years, as VP for a very large and very well known Aerospace Company by design more in airplanes than home. I know every bloody airport lounge there is - and - by the way , it is not romantic at all. If I never see an airport again, it is too early.
When you travel that much (admittedly business class) and hotels become your home, you are bound to make friends in the various countries who invite you to their homes. It is there, where I learned to know the "people", not in the hotels or any club med.

Sucking on an apple tobacco water pipe in a market place in Istanbul or eating wieners out of a can with Vodka instead of water or a soft drink in St. Petersburg, all that in a living room of the size of my bathroom here, led to a strange situation, where I find myself having most friends overseas than, where I actually live. It is not good or bad – just the way it is for me personally and individually.

I appreciate that I was able to see a lot of things a lot of the people here only read about, first hand, up close and personal, but it also came with a high price. No lasting relationships, the loss of the love of my life, no wife, no children, no family. Nothing romantic about it. I ve seen terrible ugliness, but I have also seen the best in humans there is and the latter surrounded by unspeakable misery.

My personal decision is simply to focus on the latter, build upon it, rather than tunnel-vision on the first and thus lose any (remaining) optimism.

"We always point out, how diverse those many cultures are, but fail to acknowledge how similar the average individuals. It is because of that that I feel that basic human needs come first, no matter where you are. It is why I have faith in our society, because it stands for exactly satisfying these basic human needs."Once again, we do not share the same values. People in all civilized western countries value the lives of their children above pretty much anything else. In Islamic countries, they value revenge above the lives of their children. Their pathological and demented hatred of Jews, Christians, and "infidels" of every sort is so powerful that they send their children out as suicide bombers and actually breed children to be used as terrorist suicide bombers. They do not believe in the basic human needs of life, liberty, or happiness.

I want to hear, what an average American Muslim has to say about that.

"I would not be a pragmatist, if I denied the reality you depict. It's grim. My own little lab experiment failed miserably - I humbly must accept as fact. In that sense – I concede defeat and a weak position."Hopefully that is a sincere admission.

It sadly is sincere. Plato came in, but still no Muslim voice. But I am still hoping :-)

And what exactly is wrong with "extreme measures"? If you have a raging infection of gangrene in your leg, we must use "extreme measures" and amputate that leg in order to save your life. Unfortunte, but for the greater good. When faced with extreme circumstances, you are forced to take extreme measures.

Don't deny the logic of the analogy. Can you accept that I promote the free will to either live with the amputation or not? Sometimes the surgery kills the patient. Sometimes the therapy is worse than the illness it tries to defeat.

" Banning Islam, deporting 1% of our population is to say the least "radical". "Yet effective, and neccesary."I am not willing to accept the "collateral damage" of deporting or suppressing innocent people"Show me that they are truly innocent. Islam is the enemy.

The difference between us is, that you state that all of them are evil, because by sheer logic of its teachings all Muslims are depraved., while I will not condemn them as a whole, no matter, how much evidence you list.

"If the price for survival is that high, that it would force us to abandon everything we stand for, I promote in fact suicide. "Then you are truly a fool. It does not force us to abandon our principles or "everything we stand for".

Noah - I am studying for my exam tomorrow the constitution. Your proposed MO is in direct contradiction to what the US constitution declares, hence you clearly promote the abandoning of the principles of just the preamble and the Bill of Rights. I do not need to be a Supreme Court Judge to recognize that and see no way, how you could possibly argue yourself out of that paradox.

So until you can show me some evidence of widespread reform in Islam here in America, they are the enemy. Every last one of them. Period. If they want to remain here in America, let them become Christian or Buddhist or whatever. I'm not about to excuse 99.5% of them on the actions of those rare few 0.5% who actually aren't supporting terror either passively or actively. I am not about to risk out country's future for a tiny minority when 99.5% of them don't care.

Your point of view is clear, but so is mine. Since you are unable to prove to me 100% accuracy of your depiction of Islam, I can not entertain a strategy, Hitler would be proud of.

"Ok, let me get this straight. You're not willing to live in a place where we deport a fantical, socio-political-religious death cult that is threatening our survival as a nation and as a culture, but you are willing to allow your country to be transformed into an Islamic state where your head will be cut off simply for being Jewish? Someone grab a straight jacket, please!

We the people…. The patronized melting pot….have legal means at our disposal ( I know that is boring and not sexy) to never let that happen. We will not go down quite that easy, my friend.

"You seem to be able to do that. To entertain insane ideas in face of insanity. I accept and respect your point of view and the fact that you are willing to pay an enormous price for our survival but..."

Insanity? Since when is survival called "insanity"? Since when is standing up to evil in the extreme "insanity"? I'll tell you what is insanity. Insanity is sitting on your ass doing nothing except making up excuses not to do anything, while the enemy erodes, corrupts, and undermines your society from within whiel also attacking it from within and without. That is insanity. Was it insanity to firebomb Dresden? Was it insanity to nuke Hiroshima and Nagasaski? Apparently for you, suidice is sane, and survival is insane. You're backwards!

Yes – to be truthful – the examples you mentioned were unnecessary and insane. Adding insult to injury, as the outcome at that moment was predestined already. Revenge? A book could be written about that topic alone. Philosophically spoken I am to the opinion that the ascent of man towards Utopia is only possible, if he learns to overcome this one strong motivational force - as a species, culture, society and as an individual.

" I can understand your cultural trauma and sensitivity to the issue, being Jewish. However, that's not the same thing we're talking about. Your ancestors were rounded up and exterminated by an evil madman and his military machine simply because you existed. I am not advocating the eradication of an entire culture. That decision would rest entirely in their own hands. As long as they did not attack America, they would not be eradicated. As long as they became civilized human beings worthy of living, they would not be eradicated. And I am advocating eradicating them (if it comes to that) not because they exist, not because I disagree with them, but because they are a deadly menace to all we hold dear and sacred...life, liberty, happiness, freedom. If the mythical "moderate" Muslims refuse to transform their religion, they must be forced to do so, just as we forced Japan to surrender its insane ideology.

Thank you for above statement. At least you see my sensitivity.

If you truly believe that, then you are a total fool. Only a completely ignorant and misguided fool would prefer suicide to genocide when faced with an implacable enemy that does not respect life itself, when the enemy does not respect freedom or happiness, when the enemy's goal is the total annihilation of everything you hold dear.

If not buying into purpose justifies all means, is being a fool, then by all means, call me that. My principles and core values transcend my tiny little personal life. Before I betray them, everything my forefathers bled for, Yes - cheerio and bye bye.

"They are simply much smarter than I am, but – let me tell you, my moderate friends –as opposed to Noah and Susan, Infidel and dhimmi, I am ashamed of you and I walk away from here in disgust, whereas I respect the aforementioned as willing to speak up, voice at times harsh, even radical opinions and in general " do the work". They have backbone at least, whereas I can call you guys only Cowards with no spine. You enjoy the blessings and privileges of our society, yet lack any courage to defend it."

And yet you still think they deserve to be allowed to live in our society?

Well - I addressed quite actually not just your mythical moderate Muslim, I addressed all moderates. Okay then, let's deport them all – there'll be a lot of cheap real estate here in the US. Cool.

"You on the other hand just watched like the passive onlookers in a NY Subway during a gang rape. Probably smiled ironically, shook your heads but otherwise just sat there nice and cozy."
A very apt analogy. And yes, you're starting to see reality now.

Deploring passiveness and living a paranoia of believing that they are all enjoying it or trying to kill me, is a whole different ball game.

"If you – the silent majority – continue to do so, I can not come to any other conclusion than Noah –we are doomed. God help us all." God helps those who help themselves. It is far past the time to let the so called silent majority know...if you are not going to stand with us, you are against us.

The silent majority is right here in our own backyards. Average Americans, no matter the creed or origin, too afraid, disinterested, self-absorbed. IN your own logic therefore your enemy, as they are not with you. ( Nor with me for that matter). So what do you suggest we do with them?

I say it for the very last time: This blog alone has delivered any radical Imam, domestic or abroad, enough material to indoctrinate his community for years to come as to the hateful, intolerant, outright paranoid nature of us "infidels". It has not led to any constructive dialogue but quite actually sharpened any conflict. If I was a muslim reading what you posted, my only reaction could be resentment, anger, hatred - exactly the breeding attitude for fanatism and terrorism.

I find myself appalled and helpless in the face of such extreme opinions. How can diametrically opposing cultures and religions find dialogue and compromise, if not even we, members of the same society, Western republicans can not find common ground?

I will admit that I engaged in this debate out of scientific curiosity. I wanted to find out, if I could pick one of the extreme posters and apply any form of respectful technique to come to a form of platform, both parties could buy into. I tried every single tool within my arsenal of modern conflict resolution techniques to no avail whatsoever.

I tested the wide spread hypothesis that there is no reasoning with fanatism and found it clearly confirmed here. Insofar, I apologize to you. The whole thing was initially an experiment. But it became much more in the course of the debate. It became a frightening example and strong evidence for the fact that hatred is almost impossible to overcome, once it is imprinted.

There is no way The Imam in Birmingham or our own people as represented by you can and will ever find common ground. I can only hope and pray that people like Plato stand in between as a buffer between arch enemies.

As far as I am concerned - I concede the experiment as failed in its entirety. ( Including the lab test to involve moderate muslims)

You remained steadfast like a rock, not giving an inch, ready for the next crusade.

Congratulations to you, and a really stiff drink for me, as I wasted a ton of my (expensive) time.


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Title Commenter Date Thread
George Orwell : "If there was hope, it must lie in the proles." [82 words]mythJan 17, 2010 20:20167454
How the West Could Lose [168 words]AnneSep 20, 2008 10:59138894
Interesting point of view... [85 words]TousifOct 21, 2009 02:53138894
how the west could lose [78 words]jamesJun 21, 2010 23:48138894
4How the West could lose. I think you will be surprised at the final outcome. response to James. [101 words]Anne-USAJun 23, 2010 16:43138894
how the west could lost - response to Anne [67 words]jamesJun 24, 2010 01:12138894
How the West Lost- There will be evil in the last days, we expect rough times. response to James [354 words]Anne- USAJun 24, 2010 19:26138894
the left wing must be stopped and exposed [36 words]stefanoMar 4, 2008 00:21121684
The Leftwing must be stopped and exposed-----by Stephano [345 words]DebbieJul 20, 2008 10:16121684
Really America, really? [49 words]JasnaDec 26, 2008 20:14121684
SUNNI QARADAWI AND BROTHERHOOD OFFER OLIVE BRANCH TO SHIITES - IN JIHAD FOR IRAN [258 words]Sofa SogoodOct 20, 2007 12:11112001
how many more must die... before we all see ? [180 words]Phil GreendOct 6, 2007 18:51110560
We need to put aside political correctness and discuss Islam [365 words]Dennis GravesSep 11, 2007 15:22108556
counter thought... [123 words]donvanOct 18, 2007 09:24108556
1ISLAM NOT A RELIGION OF PEACE. [3 words]Nina NiaziOct 19, 2007 19:24108556
We, the People. [122 words]Linda HaslamOct 20, 2007 00:16108556
right on brother! [375 words]kid berthaNov 5, 2007 15:19108556
islam not a religon of peace [158 words]Nina niaziNov 20, 2007 10:06108556
Brits deserve it!!! [186 words]JaladhiNov 20, 2007 20:22108556
2Islam: Religion of Peace? [85 words]Linda HaslamNov 27, 2007 09:42108556
1ISLAM NOT A RELIGION OF PEACE [207 words]nina niaziDec 2, 2007 17:40108556
God's children??? [139 words]Linda HaslamDec 6, 2007 11:11108556
1Jaladhi get an education old chap! [177 words]Leven-TorresApr 14, 2008 09:04108556
1try to learn scripture first [36 words]johnMay 18, 2008 05:02108556
1Don't misquote the Qur'an please. [832 words]KeithJul 22, 2008 18:22108556
islam excuses [2162 words]paul dunnNov 28, 2008 17:42108556
don't make any illusions [122 words]SunaJan 18, 2010 15:26108556
Ignorance: a dangerous thing [78 words]HamiyetMay 6, 2012 16:07108556
The War that we are Fighting [1925 words]Major DaveMay 23, 2007 17:3894113
My average American's opinion [768 words]kid berthaJun 12, 2007 16:1994113
So what is your solution? [1942 words]Major DaveJun 12, 2007 23:5394113
misunderstood [1256 words]kid berthaJun 14, 2007 11:1894113
My Respect [341 words]MichelAug 25, 2007 15:0694113
Oh, boy......... [76 words]Nick4693Sep 13, 2007 19:5294113
ISLAM NOT A RELIGION OF PEACE. [156 words]Nina NiaziOct 19, 2007 16:3694113
1Nina is correct. [432 words]kid berthaNov 5, 2007 14:4394113
ISLAM NOT A RELIGION OF PEACE [114 words]NinaNov 7, 2007 18:1994113
bravo [110 words]kcOct 21, 2009 01:0394113
Islam is not a relgion of Peace [20 words]sahilApr 10, 2011 13:5694113
2Monotheism vs Polytheism [225 words]IndianMay 17, 2007 03:5993309
Very right but still slightly off. [140 words]True-IndianSep 22, 2007 11:2693309
what is the truth? [51 words]najeebSep 15, 2009 09:1293309
Shiites [59 words]Dr Erich MeyerMay 8, 2007 23:5892175
Why US should attack Islamic Iran now ??? [642 words]ShivaMay 4, 2007 10:1591639
1Finally a factual message has been posted [372 words]kid berthaMay 5, 2007 09:3291639
1Right on! [332 words]Nick4693Sep 13, 2007 22:5291639
there's no why! [84 words]SunaJan 18, 2010 15:3691639
Plato [302 words]SohailApr 22, 2007 06:2090156
To Sohail: All mixed up [210 words]PlatoApr 23, 2007 08:4390156
So why should the West be the winner???? [2 words]aliApr 16, 2007 10:0089384
Answers for Ali [93 words]Noah WilkApr 19, 2007 18:3889384
how i see it [74 words]warnerApr 20, 2007 01:0189384
Ali your answer is in the Taliban video [99 words]PlatoApr 22, 2007 01:5889384
Three words for you [3 words]RJMay 1, 2007 00:0889384
How the West could lose: Reply to Mr.Ali. [47 words]Jaisingh ThakurJul 13, 2007 00:1689384
Why [35 words]aliJul 21, 2007 14:3489384
No... [93 words]adfJul 20, 2008 15:1789384
2why most of iranian hate arabs and islam? [17 words]persianDec 16, 2008 17:3189384
iranians hate arabs [4 words]joeSep 11, 2009 17:5189384
To Be the Big Dog or Not [628 words]MichaelApr 11, 2007 11:4989023
A muslim duty [581 words]moderate MuslimApr 7, 2007 00:0088762
Reality check and fantasy [50 words]dhimmi no moreApr 7, 2007 18:1488762
make no sense [14 words]moderate MuslimApr 8, 2007 22:2288762
Yes I read it in Arabic a language that you do not know [27 words]dhimmi no moreApr 9, 2007 18:0988762
Honest answers, please! [343 words]Nick4693Sep 11, 2007 19:5788762
Now one question [106 words]moderate MuslimApr 6, 2007 23:3388757
M&M and his bogus context again and Q9:4 or 5 if you wish [53 words]dhimmi no moreApr 7, 2007 18:5188757
i dont even know [228 words]a muslim americanMar 27, 2007 22:1888086
Our dear M&M and Islamic meltdown part deux [19 words]dhimmi no moreMar 28, 2007 17:1588086
1A NORMAL MUSLIM... [341 words]DONVANApr 5, 2007 14:0488086
oil and water [86 words]todd morrisonOct 16, 2007 23:2588086
wow.... [51 words]moderate MuslimMar 27, 2007 15:3388065
It says ya ayuha al-nass! [105 words]dhimmi no moreMar 29, 2007 17:5788065
dhimmi, READ YOUR OWN EVIDENCE FIRST [225 words]moderate MuslimMar 30, 2007 19:3088065
For Our dear M&M and his bogus arabic and the Qur'an really says that islam is the religion of the Arabs only and you ain't one [718 words]dhimmi no moreApr 2, 2007 19:4188065
The poor Arabic translation of Picktall another wannabe Arab! [446 words]dhimmi no moreApr 3, 2007 07:2688065
For our dear M&m and argument from silence! And Islam is indeed the religion of the Hijazi Arabs as per Q14:4 and you ain't one [30 words]dhimmi no moreApr 5, 2007 18:1488065
One more time pt 2 [243 words]moderate MuslimMar 26, 2007 19:2788016
fantasy world of islam [286 words]susanMar 28, 2007 15:2688016
Still in denial, "Moderate" Muslim [357 words]Noah WilkMar 28, 2007 16:5988016
yeah ok [26 words]moderate MuslimMar 28, 2007 19:1988016
3Why are you making excuses, Moderate Muslim? [322 words]Noah WilkMar 31, 2007 17:5688016
were you at the rallies? [40 words]susanApr 1, 2007 10:0388016
Ok, so What? [11 words]moderate MuslimApr 2, 2007 19:0388016
the usual cheap excuse [11 words]susanApr 3, 2007 02:5688016
Ignorance is no excuse [168 words]Noah WilkApr 5, 2007 14:5188016
I will not stand for hate. [42 words]moderate MuslimApr 6, 2007 23:3688016
Moderate Muslim corners himself! [393 words]Noah WilkApr 7, 2007 16:2488016
Misunderstanding [311 words]moderate MuslimApr 7, 2007 21:1588016
easy [51 words]susanApr 8, 2007 07:1888016
the 1960's [27 words]moderate MuslimApr 8, 2007 22:2488016
not an "image" problem [297 words]susanApr 9, 2007 07:2088016
Speaking of hate and the Qur'an [83 words]dhimmi no moreApr 9, 2007 18:1988016
Why not burn effigies? [80 words]Noah WilkApr 9, 2007 20:5288016
noah [62 words]moderate MuslimApr 10, 2007 21:4888016
Back to Morous (12 seconds on the shot clock) [3677 words]moderate MuslimMar 25, 2007 22:1287974
Our dear M&M and cut and paste jobs Paki/Arabic and the bogus hadith! [522 words]dhimmi no moreMar 27, 2007 20:2387974
an addendum and my source for the hadith literary criticism [20 words]dhimmi no moreMar 28, 2007 07:0687974
My compliments to the sheik (morous 360 dunk in moderate's face, the crowd goes wild) [1370 words]MOROUSMar 28, 2007 16:3987974
To Moderate Muslim: [894 words]PlatoMar 30, 2007 04:2287974
No, I respect many [89 words]moderate MuslimMar 30, 2007 19:2587974
To Moderate Muslim: But Allah hates other religions [234 words]PlatoApr 1, 2007 02:0587974
numbers matter [54 words]susanApr 1, 2007 10:1387974
Here's your answer Plato [129 words]moderate MuslimApr 2, 2007 19:0987974
heh, ok right, that is so bogus [40 words]moderate MuslimApr 2, 2007 19:2487974
let's start from... [46 words]susanApr 3, 2007 03:1587974
And speaking of bogus! [86 words]dhimmi no moreApr 4, 2007 17:2987974
your answer [535 words](moderate) Muslim (though all real Muslims are moderate)Apr 5, 2007 22:0887974
christian arabs are first victims of muslims [243 words]susanApr 8, 2007 07:2687974
Islam and Terror [1398 words]moderate Muslim AmericanMar 22, 2007 17:4387720
Hamza Yusuf a Muslim scholar? LOL! [187 words]dhimmi no moreMar 23, 2007 19:2287720
3Nothing's more fun than debunking "Muslim Logic" [2959 words]Noah WilkMar 23, 2007 21:1887720
To Moderate Muslim: It is just a wish-list you have given us [2577 words]PlatoMar 24, 2007 06:4087720
M&M and David Chappelle exposed [147 words]dhimmi no moreMar 25, 2007 09:1487720
high muslim clerics agree with bin laden [394 words]susanMar 27, 2007 15:2487720
ok? [44 words]moderate Muslim-Mar 27, 2007 22:0087720
you just proved how ignorant islamphobes are [82 words]Islamophobic ignoranceMar 28, 2007 15:2687720
Precisely why we condemn you [380 words]Noah WilkMar 28, 2007 17:1887720
The little olive institute [32 words]dhimmi no moreMar 28, 2007 17:4587720
Our dear M&M and Yusuf Hamza's ancestry [25 words]dhimmi no moreMar 28, 2007 17:5187720
thanks.. [8 words]moderate MuslimMar 28, 2007 19:2087720
Islamophobia, really? [298 words]dhimmi no moreMar 29, 2007 07:2287720
Because , the most comfortable position for a coward is to struggle to be portrayed a "moderate" (&) Moslem. [611 words]Ynna(tchkah)Mar 29, 2007 13:4087720
poor reply [71 words]susanMar 29, 2007 13:4287720
like you said something... [91 words]susanMar 29, 2007 13:5087720
we need ears to listen and eyes to see [252 words]Islamophobia no more...Mar 29, 2007 16:3887720
chechnya is sufi [20 words]susanApr 1, 2007 10:1487720
I dont think you get it (Ynna (tchkah) [129 words]moderate MuslimApr 2, 2007 19:2387720
and why? [41 words]moderate MuslimApr 2, 2007 19:2787720
Our dear Islamophobia no more and his little diatribes [48 words]dhimmi no moreApr 2, 2007 19:5487720
Congratulations for not going to work to CAIR [108 words]Ynna (tchkah)Apr 3, 2007 03:0287720
skewed perception of Islamophobes [138 words]Islamophobia no moreApr 3, 2007 03:0387720
africa's fault is african [146 words]susanApr 3, 2007 03:2287720
an Islamophobe [259 words]Islamophobia no moreApr 3, 2007 03:3287720
cair wants sharia [39 words]susanApr 3, 2007 03:3987720
More diatribes from our dear INM aka M&M [103 words]dhimmi no moreApr 3, 2007 18:4387720
YOU DON'T GET THE POINT [19 words]moderate MuslimApr 3, 2007 20:2787720
For our dear INM and what is an Islamophobe part deux [343 words]dhimmi no moreApr 4, 2007 07:5387720
no matter how you turn it [67 words]susanApr 4, 2007 14:5187720
nobody is irrationally vilifying islam [234 words]susanApr 4, 2007 15:0887720
sharia allows slavery [18 words]susanApr 4, 2007 17:3987720
Dropping names and Si, comprende mucho! [111 words]dhimmi no moreApr 4, 2007 17:4887720
fallacy of bias history-reading [108 words]Islamophobia no moreApr 5, 2007 01:5987720
islamophobia, the stupidest word ever invented [124 words]susanApr 5, 2007 16:3087720
Cair and other people [171 words]moderate MuslimApr 5, 2007 22:1587720
CAIR [374 words]Noah WilkApr 6, 2007 14:5587720
Why then do you support it? [290 words]Noah WilkApr 6, 2007 15:0387720
cair = sharia = stone age [70 words]susanApr 6, 2007 15:1987720
Noah [124 words]moderate MuslimApr 6, 2007 23:4087720
M&M CAIR (big time LOL) and his flawed logic! [344 words]dhimmi no moreApr 7, 2007 08:3787720
Yes, Moderate Muslim, you ARE responsible! [516 words]Noah WilkApr 7, 2007 16:4587720
ROTFL [44 words]dhimmi no moreApr 7, 2007 18:3787720
al-Shari3a [10 words]dhimmi no moreApr 7, 2007 18:3987720
CAIR and mockery [26 words]dhimmi no moreApr 8, 2007 11:4087720
i'll see [37 words]moderate MuslimApr 8, 2007 22:3487720
Why aren't moderate muslims standing up? [55 words]Bob SterlingAug 20, 2007 23:5187720
why should the west win anyways if it continues with its current programme of warmongering? [434 words]cocoMay 6, 2009 12:0187720
islam & terror [627 words]John EdwardsOct 27, 2009 15:1387720
so here are you answers more if you want em [29 words]moderate MuslimMar 20, 2007 19:3287302
Moderate Muslim fails again! [1415 words]Noah WilkMar 21, 2007 15:3287302
mauritania has got legal slavery, allowed in islam [15 words]susanMar 21, 2007 16:5787302
MM [230 words]JaladhiMar 21, 2007 18:0187302
handshake with Kuffar? "Muslim debate schemes" and other sordid matters! [599 words]dhimmi no moreMar 22, 2007 07:5187302
morocco 50% literacy rate [18 words]susanMar 22, 2007 10:0387302
"Muslim debate schemes"! part deux [452 words]dhimmi no moreMar 24, 2007 14:1087302
Dhimmi No More - defenders of the faith have left town!!! [40 words]JaladhiMar 26, 2007 16:5687302
Your answer Plato (which is a really bad name for you, because it dishonores someone who actually thought [169 words]Moderate MuslimMar 20, 2007 19:1887298
Was the post for me? [45 words]PlatoMar 21, 2007 08:3087298
Try paying attention, Moderate Muslim [570 words]Noah WilkMar 21, 2007 17:5587298
blatantly clear? LOL [178 words]dhimmi no moreMar 21, 2007 19:5087298
To MM: Would Mohammed be a good name for me? [130 words]PlatoMar 22, 2007 14:0087298
you guys hate the truth, dontcha [23 words]moderate MuslimMar 22, 2007 17:1087298
clarification [36 words]Moderate MuslimMar 22, 2007 17:1287298
No, Im not beyond help, although I dont need much [73 words]moderate MuslimMar 22, 2007 17:1587298
Free will in islam? LOL [379 words]dhimmi no moreMar 24, 2007 08:1587298
you like lies don'tcha? [148 words]susanMar 25, 2007 10:2187298
To Syed [17 words]moderate MuslimMar 16, 2007 19:3086570
LOL syed is asking for caliphate [8 words]susanMar 18, 2007 10:1686570
Syed? LOL He has no credibility! [172 words]dhimmi no moreMar 18, 2007 12:5086570
Syeds are not Iranians?? [83 words]JaladhiMar 19, 2007 17:1886570
What? [35 words]moderate MuslimMar 19, 2007 19:2486570
For our dear M&M and islam [73 words]dhimmi no moreMar 20, 2007 17:4886570
To Moderate Muslim: Spreading Islam by avoiding unpleasant facts [389 words]PlatoMar 22, 2007 13:3586570
Sure, Syed's the perfect choice [230 words]JeffMar 27, 2007 18:2386570
i wasnt..... [77 words]moderate MuslimMar 27, 2007 22:0286570
THE JOKE'S ON YOU (DHIMMI) [32 words]moderate MuslimMar 16, 2007 19:2786568
And your point is? [244 words]dhimmi no moreMar 18, 2007 12:4086568
You dont know me, you dont even care [110 words]moderate MuslimMar 19, 2007 19:3686568
avoiding the sex slaves matter [52 words]susanMar 20, 2007 16:1186568
Uno Questiono por legion of doom [36 words]moderate MuslimMar 16, 2007 19:2586566
To Moderate Muslim: Global warming a belief? [63 words]PlatoMar 17, 2007 23:1186566
The Official Stance of the Legion of Doom On Global Warming [59 words]Noah WilkMar 18, 2007 10:1786566
youre just not answering [43 words]moderate MuslimMar 19, 2007 19:2986566
heheh, thanks plato [25 words]moderate MuslimMar 19, 2007 19:3086566
You were indeed given an answer [209 words]Noah WilkMar 20, 2007 15:2986566
They're not scared [107 words]Noah WilkMar 20, 2007 15:3686566
sex slaves conspiracy [101 words]susanMar 20, 2007 16:1486566
?? [72 words]moderate MuslimMar 22, 2007 17:1986566
Yes, you are on trial [223 words]Noah WilkMar 23, 2007 18:5786566
islam is not on trial, it's already convicted [14 words]susanMar 25, 2007 10:2686566
heh please [45 words]moderate MuslimMar 26, 2007 19:1686566
Spain and Arabian imperialism and justifying the absurd [69 words]dhimmi no moreMar 27, 2007 20:4886566
spain? islam flourished? [2978 words]susanMar 28, 2007 02:5786566
Islam is peace [103 words]moderate MuslimMar 14, 2007 21:3686334
disproved [331 words]susanMar 15, 2007 16:2486334
Islam and violence and silence [116 words]dhimmi no moreMar 18, 2007 17:3486334
uh NO [7 words]moderate MuslimMar 19, 2007 19:2586334
Our dear M&M has never been to a madrassa! [81 words]dhimmi no moreMar 24, 2007 14:2286334
ALARMING NEWS - POLYGAMOUS MUSLIM IMMIGRANTS ARE WELCOME IN US WITH UP TO FOUR WIVES [211 words]Sofa SogoodMar 14, 2007 14:4586290
A Peaceful Muslim Country (oh my) [259 words]moderate MuslimMar 11, 2007 21:2185929
...muslim [492 words]susanMar 12, 2007 18:3085929
very poor example [255 words]susanMar 12, 2007 18:4085929
Dave Chapelle? and who the heck is he? And why should we like him or hate him for this matter [235 words]dhimmi no moreMar 12, 2007 19:3985929
MALAYSIA A PEACEFUL MUSLIM COUNTRY???LOL [110 words]MOROUSMar 13, 2007 16:5385929
Malaysia is Saudi Arabia of East [142 words]JaladhiMar 13, 2007 19:1385929
Talking points, pillars, quibbles, quotes, examples, and some words of wisdom from the kennedys. [972 words]moderate MuslimMar 13, 2007 19:3285929
MY EMAILS? [13 words]muslimMar 13, 2007 21:2385929
Malaysia is Saudi Arabia of East - Pt. 2 [133 words]JaladhiMar 14, 2007 16:2785929
The good ole pillars of islam! [84 words]dhimmi no moreMar 14, 2007 16:4385929
kennedy quote? [659 words]susanMar 14, 2007 16:4485929
why does everyone not get it [32 words]moderate MuslimMar 14, 2007 19:4085929
huh?? [339 words]morousMar 15, 2007 12:2285929
Our dear M&M and you ain't Muqatil [61 words]dhimmi no moreMar 15, 2007 20:0485929
To Morous-Clarify a few things [291 words]moderate MuslimMar 15, 2007 21:2585929
your clarification Moderate [664 words]MorousMar 17, 2007 11:4685929
one clarification: malaysia has got sharia law [41 words]susanMar 18, 2007 10:1985929
literal interpretation [68 words]susanMar 18, 2007 10:2285929
Reply to Reply : morous [116 words]moderate MuslimMar 18, 2007 17:1585929
women as humans? [31 words]susanMar 20, 2007 04:5185929
It's Back in your court MODERATE [616 words]MorousMar 20, 2007 13:2585929
Malaysia? [171 words]surjApr 20, 2007 22:3485929
More Answers (Aisha) (ra) [2787 words]moderate MuslimMar 11, 2007 21:0685919
aisha the child [103 words]susanMar 12, 2007 18:3385919
To Moderate Muslim: Hiding the shame of Aisha's age and a Maulana abrogates 9:29 [989 words]PlatoMar 13, 2007 01:1385919
3A'isha and real history! and playing with dolls! [648 words]dhimmi no moreMar 13, 2007 07:2885919
Lies will not change historical age of Aisha at the time of her marriage [157 words]JaladhiMar 20, 2007 15:4385919
The Ultimate Post- No Hiding, No Crying, Just Answers [8353 words]moderate MuslimMar 8, 2007 22:1385330
I'm cherry picking Moderate Muslim's huge post [2178 words]Noah WilkMar 9, 2007 04:1485330
For our dear M&M and his bogus command of Islamic theology [454 words]dhimmi no moreMar 9, 2007 18:0085330
To Moderate Muslim: Ethical basis of Islam and the thrashing of women by men [2001 words]PlatoMar 10, 2007 07:3085330
For our dear Moderate Msulim and what is really a moderate Muslim?And other sordid matters [885 words]dhimmi no moreMar 10, 2007 07:4085330
More Answers-To Dhimmi [293 words]moderate MuslimMar 10, 2007 13:2085330
Our dear M&M and he is really a "bait"? and Jihad or holy war revisited part deux [653 words]dhimmi no moreMar 10, 2007 14:1585330
moderate [592 words]susanMar 10, 2007 15:0185330
For our dear M&M and Q2:216 ...part one! [832 words]dhimmi no moreMar 11, 2007 09:2885330
dhimmi ... [26 words]susanMar 11, 2007 10:3985330
For our dear M&M and Q9:4 part deux! [541 words]dhimmi no moreMar 11, 2007 14:4185330
moderate Muslim [61 words]moderate MuslimMar 11, 2007 17:4285330
Condemnable Offenses. Controlling Men [91 words]moderate MuslimMar 11, 2007 17:4585330
you have no idea what a race is again [13 words]susanMar 12, 2007 03:3885330
M&M and more fantasy [262 words]dhimmi no moreMar 12, 2007 07:5285330
To Moderate Muslim: Fight to make your neighbours submit to Allah [179 words]PlatoMar 12, 2007 10:1585330
response to moderate muslim [555 words]morousMar 12, 2007 16:2585330
invented by modern people? [111 words]susanMar 12, 2007 18:3085330
yeah, so? [97 words]moderate MuslimMar 12, 2007 19:2485330
To Moderate Muslim: On rape and chopping off hands [583 words]PlatoMar 12, 2007 23:1885330
Uh no [17 words]moderate MuslimMar 13, 2007 19:3385330
the joke is on you morous [36 words]moderate MuslimMar 13, 2007 19:3685330
Hypocritical Muslim [56 words]Noah WilkMar 13, 2007 20:4385330
origins [183 words]dhimmi no moreMar 13, 2007 21:5885330
Racism! Really? [147 words]dhimmi no moreMar 14, 2007 12:3185330
i am 100% correct [57 words]susanMar 14, 2007 16:2285330
More evidence [47 words]dhimmi no moreMar 14, 2007 16:5685330
Hypocrisy - thy name is.... [46 words]JaladhiMar 14, 2007 17:3185330
Jesus is god? [26 words]moderate muslimMar 14, 2007 19:3185330
not quite making sense - at all [129 words]moderate MuslimMar 14, 2007 19:3785330
lies [30 words]moderate MuslimMar 14, 2007 19:3885330
His words? [226 words]dhimmi no moreMar 15, 2007 07:3985330
Muslims suppress free debate on anti Semitism at Leeds University, UK [163 words]DelboyMar 15, 2007 09:4985330
MM [135 words]susanMar 15, 2007 16:1485330
2My dear M&M and i'm glad that you asked and the Qur'an really says that Jesus is God! [93 words]dhimmi no moreMar 15, 2007 19:5985330
Uh what? [38 words]moderate MuslimMar 16, 2007 19:2185330
MM - Read Dhimmi No More's(who knows Arabic) posts to understand Q9:4 [92 words]JaladhiMar 19, 2007 17:4885330
Respond to what? [58 words]dhimmi no moreMar 19, 2007 20:1485330
For our dear M&M and the Qur'an really says that jesus is God and the bogus tawheed [140 words]dhimmi no moreMar 20, 2007 07:5185330
THAT'S NOT WHAT THE KORAN SAYS [22 words]MOROUSMar 20, 2007 14:0285330
The fundamentally faulty logic of the person called dhimmi no more [201 words]moderate MuslimMar 20, 2007 19:0185330
Astaghfirullah is M&M's lame answer [239 words]dhimmi no moreMar 23, 2007 07:2885330
Flat? Hardly [31 words]Moderate MuslimMar 25, 2007 21:5385330
ONCE AGAIN MODERATE, THE KORAN CONTRADICTS YOU [172 words]MOROUSMar 28, 2007 17:0885330
Hand Chopping and Adultery [74 words]Mukhtar Ahmed KashifJul 30, 2009 12:4785330
Why I am proud to be a member of the Legion of Doom! [354 words]Noah WilkMar 8, 2007 21:0985321
The wake up call [15 words]Moderate MuslimFeb 26, 2007 16:2579077
You're talking, but you're not saying anything, Moderate Muslim [499 words]Noah WilkFeb 26, 2007 20:3579077
PEACEFUL NATION? YEAH, COMPARED TO THE HUNS [53 words]Moderate MuslimFeb 28, 2007 07:3279077
homework for moderate muslim [155 words]susanFeb 28, 2007 15:3479077
MM, you very well described actions of Muslims [98 words]JaladhiFeb 28, 2007 17:4279077
mob muslim contradiction [97 words]susanFeb 28, 2007 18:1079077
to mod.muslim [145 words]AnnaFeb 28, 2007 19:3479077
Susan [507 words]Moderate MuslimFeb 28, 2007 20:3479077
For our dear M&M and more fantasy [371 words]dhimmi no moreMar 1, 2007 06:0279077
peace.. [125 words]donvanMar 1, 2007 09:1879077
YES [87 words]Moderate MuslimMar 1, 2007 19:5079077
Strive to forgive what? [15 words]dhimmi no moreMar 2, 2007 17:2279077
don't believe you [65 words]susanMar 3, 2007 12:4879077
Response to Susan [153 words]moderate MuslimMar 5, 2007 20:0779077
educated fanatics.. [14 words]donvanMar 6, 2007 15:0079077
Anti-Semitic propaganda from our "Moderate" Muslim [340 words]Noah WilkMar 7, 2007 12:5179077
so many mistakes again [263 words]susanMar 7, 2007 15:0279077
NOT ANTI-SEMITIC [177 words]moderate muslimMar 7, 2007 17:4279077

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