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Ironing out a few points

Reader comment on item: How the West Could Lose
in response to reader comment: For Noah - once again with respect

Submitted by Noah Wilk (United States), Jan 15, 2007 at 01:04

Michel, we do agree on many things, we just need to iron out a few wrinkles. :-D

"For the record – I do not deem you as a hatemonger or one of the people who see nothing but problems but do not have ideas or offer solutions. It is why I have enjoyed this debate with you and not so much others, where some qualifications were borderline insulting on a personal level. You and I differ in general on the extent of measures with a fruitful and refreshing exchange."

Yes, it has been refreshing. And certainly a lot more interesting than debating people like Avenger or Mo, who know nothing outside of the propaganda they've been indoctrinated into.

"You do mostly abstain of that, Noah but many posts contain borderline insulting adjectives, not prone to leading to constructive dialogue of any kind."

The thing is, I simply don't see how to avoid adjectives like "demented" and "depraved", because the teachings of Islam and the practice thereof are just that...demented and depraved by any civilized standard.

"Okay – fair enough – according to you they pursue the "migratory attack" sleeper cell approach. I accept your viewpoint, while I disagree with it, as also outlined several times. But we do agree that this will take many more generations (you mention 50- to 100 years). That is a lot of time for us as civilized world to take countermeasures to use an expression from the military/strategy vocabulary."

I don't agree that it would take 50-100 years. I'd say more like 15-20 tops. They come over in droves and breed like hamsters. And there is a powerful and aggressive pro-Islam movement in America, funded by the Saudis and their oil company sycophants here in America, and the (supposedly) American politicians who answer to them. That's why we have Bush proclaiming Islam is a religion of peace when every day reality proves him wrong.

And 15-20 years (perhaps as little as 10 years) is the blink of an eye. There is no time to counter that slowly.

"I deem however, as opposed to you ( if I understand you correctly) the current militant, radical Islam as clear and present danger much more than the non militant migratory and subversive movement you describe."

No, I'd say the migratory attack is by far the greater threat. Here's why.

First, once embedded it is much more difficult to remove them. Imagine if I were the President and I called for the immediate forced exportation of Muslims and banning of Islam. The scumbags at the ACLU would we overdosing on No-Doze and coffee trying to stay awake for their 24hr/day legal complaints. And imagine how much fighting there would be to forcibly remove them. Better not to let the enemy infiltrate than to have to dislodge him after he's done infiltrating.

Second, this subversive migratory attack is being coupled with proprganda fueled by Saudi petrodollars. They are funding classes and books in grammar schools where our Western children are being "taught" to be Muslims (and which has prompted court battles). So our society is slowly being brainwashed with lies about Islam (being peaceful), which makes it much more difficult for people to deal with reality when the time comes. Why? Because by then they've been indoctrinated to believe that it's "just a few radicals" and will not back a broader retaliatory response to Islam. They're less likely to even believe it is justified to be monitoring mosques.

Violent terrorist acts, in comparison, generally work against them. It causes an increase in public disapproval, it causes attention to their mosques, it generates unsympathetic feelings towards Muslims, and in the end it makes reaching their goals harder. I'm convinced, given the poor security we still have at our borders and on our airlines, malls, nuclear plants, and ports, that the main reason we have not been hit again is more due to a change in tactics by the enemy than any increased security on our end.

"No – but that does not preclude me from trying to see a distinction between Countries like Jordan or Turkey and Yemen or Syria or most of all IRAN'

There is a distinction between them, but not one of utter relevance, from where I'm standing. Saudi Arabia for example may seem positively benign compared to Iran, but in reality they are doing as much as or perhaps more then even Iran when it comes to supporting and spreading terror. We claim Jordan is our "ally", but all that means is that Jordan's somewhat secular government is cooperating with us to some small degree. Polls taken there show that the people in the street hate us, they hate Israel, and 88% of them believe in committing violence against civilians. It's a matter of degrees, but evil is evil!

"But I do feel that - see my post to Susan - as in Japan for instance, democracy can be exported, installed and grown. Turkey has made some undeniable progress since their barbaric times. Why not try to foster that development and an integration with western Europe?"

Using your analogy, I'd say because Japan prides itself on honor and upholding its word, whereas the Muslims are mandated by their religion to lie to us, and they have proven to be totally without honor and actually proud of breaking their word and lying. They simply cannot be trusted.

"It will not hurt us, but has the potential for some success on one of the many fronts of this war, don't you agree?"

Actually, I wouldn't agree. I think that before we can even pretend to trust those sneaky, compulsive liars, we need to wait for them to reform their religion, denounce and eliminate Islamic terror, and prove their worth first. Only after they transform their society to a highly significant degree should we work with them or trust them.

"I still refuse to believe that they will see mass uprising or the Sharia as state law, even, if they have a majority or the so called critical mass."

They're already pressing for a sub-system of Sharia law in Canada, Britain, and America from what I've seen so far. Here is just one example:

http://www.youmeworks.com/sharia_canada.html

When they reach a majority, we can expect Sharia to become the law of the land.

"Noah - consider for a moment the truly horrific assumption, that ISLAM pursues its goals on both fronts. I would in their position."

Indeed. I think there's no question, that's what they're up to.

"If the militants migrate from their gigantomanismus to a low tech assault, they can have the objective of Western destabilization right now, while the non-militants pursue the silent migratory attack and officially distance themselves from the radicals with "plausible deniability". If I was them, that's exactly what I would do, integrate a short term with a long term strategy. Where our difference of opinion lays is that the evil movement as described by you to my opinion already could have started, if there was in fact so much support by domestic Muslims."

That's my point. It is starting already. Has been for at least 6 years now. We have schoolbooks paid for by Saudi Arabia and kids in our public schools are forced...yes, forced...to fast, dress up like Muslims, and say Muslim prayer in school for Ramadan, in order to "learn about Islam". We all know they're not teaching the bloody truth about Islam, or about how Mohammed raped a 6 or 8 year old child, or any of the verses about killing Jews. No, Islam is being portrayed as some pacifistic Buddhist style religion. And while our children are being brainwashed into believing those lies, the Muslims are preaching hatred against us in their homes, mosques, and madrassahs.

"Nothing anyone can possibly say or write, which will make me believe that McVeigh was anything but a stupid, narcistic white supremacist with a grudge. Further believe in Occam's Razor: Some times the most plausible explanation is indeed the right one to put it into a simplistic manner."

Occam's razor, though, fails when there is a huge amount of evidence pointing to the more complicated explanation. In other words, the evidence for an Islamic connection to the OKC bombing is staggering. It's harder for me to believe that there wasn't, given the evidence and the circumstances around the suppression of evidence, than to believe there wasn't some connection.

"I do not deny that. As with the Germans, there is a fundamental duty of responsibility. Silence in this case makes them co-conspirators."

Indeed. And the only way to get them off their backsides is to make the punishment, or rather the consequences, powerful enough to motivate them.

"I feel, Noah, that this is comparing apples with potatoes. Mixed culture, revolutionary war, and many blacks have until only few generations not been able to "speak up". I simply see it a bit different."

True, but we all did come from oppressive cultures, and many were sounding off even before they came to America. The Muslims enjoy plenty of emotional, political, and executive support. They have no legitimate reason not to stand up. I mean, President Bush himself is a Saudi-owned cheerleader, for heaven's sake! And it boggles the imagination to believe that out of a community of 50,000 Muslims, less than 500 showed up (for that rally). Estimates were around 250, and those were mainly non-Muslims. So less than 1/2 of 1% (0.5%) in the community (I 'm talking about that Arizona rally I mentioned previously) bothered to speak up. If there are, as estimated, between 2 million and 6 million Muslims in America and just 0.5% (half of one percent) bothered to stage a rally, that would amount to between 10,000 and 30,000 gathered to denounce terror. We don't see anything anywhere near that ballpark. It's asking too much to believe that out of all those Muslims, not even one-half of one percent feel free to speak out. That defies common sense. They simply don't want to speak out. Even if 95% of them were cowards, they could amass between 100,000 and 300,000 in a rally to denounce terror and claim the religion for themselves. And yet we can't even get a couple hundred to show up.

Something doesn't add up here.

"First of all, if memory serves me right, Allahu Akhbar means God is great. As inappropriate as any such religious yelling touches me during any inauguration, I do not see the content as inflaming."

I do, for several reasons. First, it has become the battle cry of terrorists. They scream "Allahu Akbar" every time they fly an airplane into a skyscraper, every time they behead an innocent civilian, every time they arson a church, every time they rape a nun, every time they commit genocide against a village, etc. What it means is not as significant as how it is used. And that phrase has become the militant battle cry of Islam. Second, why not chant the guy's name, ie the candidate who won? That's who they're voting for. That's who should be celebrating. By chanting their death cult call to arms, they are cheering not because the best candidate won, but because the Islamic candidate won. Their allegiance is to Islam, not America. There's the problem.

"Who can blame you, if your experiences were that bad. How can I possibly argue for a silent segment of moderate Muslims? Any personal references I make or experiences I had to the contrary will never change your mind."

True. I have dealt with so many of them in so many states, and in so many online forums, that it would take a miracle to convince me otherwise. They would literally have to change reality (ie reform their religion) for me to ever give them any trust. I couldn't give an exact number, but I would estimate that I have known perhaps as many as 1,000 Muslims in my life (many of them in person, slightly less online). Out of that number, I would honestly have to say that perhaps 5 of them were not hateful and violent. That comes to...[does quick math]...about 0.5% of the. So 99.5% of them were violent.

"We fundamentally agree here too. The weight must be on enforcement and yes, that would also mean overcoming of some legal hurdles to apply – to use a nasty word - censorship. As opposed to you, I feel that it can be done and vigorously applied to any doctrine."

The problem here is that in no way do we have the resources to bug the homes of 2 to 6 MILLION Muslims, all the various restaurants..., all the mosques and madrassahs, and the parks where their kids hang out, etc. It's just too much. It would be more effective to simply force them to leave. Where the enemy is not, he cannot hurt you.

"Sorry, my example proves me right. Whoever comes to the host country must abide by its laws and culture. No special privileges or treatment, no ghettos, no enclaves. CH is evidence of a country where that is in place already and proves feasibility each day. What anyone thinks behind the closed doors of their homes, is not my problem and their granted liberty. But right there the buck stops."

But that's not good enough. These Muslims would simply gather in their basements or sit in their frontrooms and around their dinner tables and plot their terror from there. It's not enough to simply "outlaw" terrorist plotting and discussion. We cannot control that in the private sector to any workable degree. So the better method is to get rid of them.

"in today" s Double Income world and full day schools, we are looking at 10h/School vs. 3 h potential indoctrination at home – over time the liberalism as experienced at school will dominate any private hatred – Is my individual conclusion. May take a couple of generations."

Those double income families with 10 hour school days are a major part of the problem! Our kids are literallybeing brainwashed into believing that Islam is peaceful. And the amount of indocrtrination the Muslim kids get at home is tremendous. Three hours a day is more than enough to create a terrorist, trust me!

Without removing them, the other solutions are merely putting a Band-Aid on a bullet wound. Not very effective.

"My slant is only that I believe we could enforce assimilation and do not have to leave it to the immigrant to choose to assimilate."

I agree that it should be mandatory. My point is, you cannot force an immigrant to love America and to be faithful to her. They can say the words, but it's how they feel that counts. I know more than enough Muslims who act like they really love being American and who pretend to be American, but who say they would refuse to fight for America if we went to war against Iran or Saudi Arabia, or who call America a "terrorist state" or who say they hope Islam wins.

"Such enclaves are a socio-demographic powder keg and it should be outlawed to have stores with merchandise not labeled in English, street signs in Vietnamese or city blocks which feel like a countryside in China. We could implement such legislature. We simply haven't been forced or compelled to do so yet."

Amen on that!

"My sole point to even mention this controversial topic was that we (Western Civilized World) are responsible for the Israel mess of the 20th century and must help clean it up. Other than that I will not touch on any claims or legalities, as we can no longer determine, what came first, the egg or the chicken."

It's not hard at all to know which came first. The chicken. :-)

The history of that region and how those countries came to be leaves no doubt whatsoever. The problem is that the anti-Semitic, pro-islam propaganda is pushed constantly and it interferes with the truth. It's literally the Goebbel's Big Lie in action, which the so-called Palestinians learned from their association with the Nazis. You'd be surprised how many people buy the Big Lie of the Middle East.

Truth is a rare commodity in our world these days.

"Fact of current circumstances: They can not be removed, they can not be denied access, and they can not be demanded to change and there is no way for practical immediate force to deal with a global movement of that magnitude. Okay – now what? Back to divide and conquer, is my only response."

I disagree on each point. They can easily be denied access. Closing our borders is within our power, if we had people in charge willing to do what's needed. Removing them can also work. We rounded up the Japanese in WWII. We can easily round up the Muslims and the illegal Mexicans. Would some insist on remaining and resist? Yes. Would some have to be killed in the process? Absolutely. Tough. It's called "personal responsibility". You take responsibility for your actions. We give them 30 days to get their things and get out, or they will be arrested and forced out. If any of them choose to stay and fight, they chose their own fate. Freedom of choice.

Look, we split the atom, we put a man on the moon, we've re-routed giant rivers and terra-formed entire areas of land. We've sent probes to the far reaches of the universe. We defeated the greatest military machine in modern history (Hitler's Nazis). We can surely round up a group of people and get rid of them.

As for forcing them to change, that's up to them too. If they have the guts and the brains, they can fix their religion once they arrive back in their homelands. If they reform and civilize their death cult into a normal religion, they are welcome back. If they don't, then let them all live in Islamic countries and kill one another. Like Susan said, pass the popcorn! ;-)

"While I appreciate, where you come from – I really understand it, Noah, non of the above solutions are even closely feasible or have any chance of being ever entertained in the world we live in."

They're definitely workable and effective. Best solution we have. The problem is of course, having the will to do so. That's why no solution will work...we do not acknowledge reality and we do not have the guts or the will to do what needs doing.

"It is in light of that, that I try to find more practical ways to achieve civilized world objectives. Even the combined power of all western defense forces including China and Russia would never manage to implement such a radical MO – not with 40 % of the World population disseminated across the globe."

Look at the pogroms in the Soviet Union, China, and elsewhere. Look at what a group of motivated people could do in the late 30's/early 40's (Nazi Germany). Almost wiped the Jews off the face of the earth. Scary, isn't it? We can definitely get rid of Islam and remove it from the USA. All it takes is for people to have two descended testicles and an intact backbone. Which of course is why it isn't happening.

"See above - even, if you are 100% right, how do you want to "reform" 40 % of the World Population?
You have to slice the cake and eat it in small pieces…. A la the elephant in the fridge."

I'm not concerned with reforming them though. I'm only concerned with removing them. I don't care whether or not they reform their religion once we get rid of them. For all I care, they can have a Sunni/Shia war of annihilation and blow each other off the map. As long as they do it in their own backyard. However, forcing them out of our society, forcing them into a cage (so to speak) in the Middle East would force them to do something. Either they would reform themselves or they would extinct themselves. Either one is fine with me.

"The segment of a moderate majority amongst domestic Muslims is my diagnosis by exclusion. While I indeed have not seen or heard much from them (including here) I have yet to see proof to the contrary with much more racially founded higher level riots and such. I feel, I think and I hope that I am right – but I can not prove you wrong."

That's because all proof and all reality backs my claims. :-)

"You got it – I toast to your health."

Right back at you! :-)

"You guys so often tell me, how sneaky and smart they are and now, all of a sudden, win/win is a non-starter with a culture famous for its bazaar dealing and wheeling?"

Yes, because win/win in Islamic culture always means Islam dominates and gets the lion's share.

"Lastly - time for another nightcap to avoid nightmares – You and I do not absolutely disagree. I found a lot of common ground. I disagree with you on the amplitude of the various measures, not so much on the wavelength. If that makes any sense."

It makes a lot of sense, actually!

"If you feel the need to slam me directly, e-mail me at mczala@hotmail.com. I'd appreciate any links to moderate muslim websites and blogs so I could inform myself first hand."

No slamming at all. It's been nice talking with you. I hope you keep an eye on these forums, and if I get any information, I'll be sure to send it your way. :-)


Note: Opinions expressed in comments are those of the authors alone and not necessarily those of Daniel Pipes. Original writing only, please. Comments are screened and in some cases edited before posting. Reasoned disagreement is welcome but not comments that are scurrilous, off-topic, commercial, disparaging religions, or otherwise inappropriate. For complete regulations, see the "Guidelines for Reader Comments".

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Title Commenter Date Thread
George Orwell : "If there was hope, it must lie in the proles." [82 words]mythJan 17, 2010 20:20167454
How the West Could Lose [168 words]AnneSep 20, 2008 10:59138894
Interesting point of view... [85 words]TousifOct 21, 2009 02:53138894
how the west could lose [78 words]jamesJun 21, 2010 23:48138894
4How the West could lose. I think you will be surprised at the final outcome. response to James. [101 words]Anne-USAJun 23, 2010 16:43138894
how the west could lost - response to Anne [67 words]jamesJun 24, 2010 01:12138894
How the West Lost- There will be evil in the last days, we expect rough times. response to James [354 words]Anne- USAJun 24, 2010 19:26138894
the left wing must be stopped and exposed [36 words]stefanoMar 4, 2008 00:21121684
The Leftwing must be stopped and exposed-----by Stephano [345 words]DebbieJul 20, 2008 10:16121684
Really America, really? [49 words]JasnaDec 26, 2008 20:14121684
SUNNI QARADAWI AND BROTHERHOOD OFFER OLIVE BRANCH TO SHIITES - IN JIHAD FOR IRAN [258 words]Sofa SogoodOct 20, 2007 12:11112001
how many more must die... before we all see ? [180 words]Phil GreendOct 6, 2007 18:51110560
We need to put aside political correctness and discuss Islam [365 words]Dennis GravesSep 11, 2007 15:22108556
counter thought... [123 words]donvanOct 18, 2007 09:24108556
1ISLAM NOT A RELIGION OF PEACE. [3 words]Nina NiaziOct 19, 2007 19:24108556
We, the People. [122 words]Linda HaslamOct 20, 2007 00:16108556
right on brother! [375 words]kid berthaNov 5, 2007 15:19108556
islam not a religon of peace [158 words]Nina niaziNov 20, 2007 10:06108556
Brits deserve it!!! [186 words]JaladhiNov 20, 2007 20:22108556
2Islam: Religion of Peace? [85 words]Linda HaslamNov 27, 2007 09:42108556
1ISLAM NOT A RELIGION OF PEACE [207 words]nina niaziDec 2, 2007 17:40108556
God's children??? [139 words]Linda HaslamDec 6, 2007 11:11108556
1Jaladhi get an education old chap! [177 words]Leven-TorresApr 14, 2008 09:04108556
1try to learn scripture first [36 words]johnMay 18, 2008 05:02108556
1Don't misquote the Qur'an please. [832 words]KeithJul 22, 2008 18:22108556
islam excuses [2162 words]paul dunnNov 28, 2008 17:42108556
don't make any illusions [122 words]SunaJan 18, 2010 15:26108556
Ignorance: a dangerous thing [78 words]HamiyetMay 6, 2012 16:07108556
The War that we are Fighting [1925 words]Major DaveMay 23, 2007 17:3894113
My average American's opinion [768 words]kid berthaJun 12, 2007 16:1994113
So what is your solution? [1942 words]Major DaveJun 12, 2007 23:5394113
misunderstood [1256 words]kid berthaJun 14, 2007 11:1894113
My Respect [341 words]MichelAug 25, 2007 15:0694113
Oh, boy......... [76 words]Nick4693Sep 13, 2007 19:5294113
ISLAM NOT A RELIGION OF PEACE. [156 words]Nina NiaziOct 19, 2007 16:3694113
1Nina is correct. [432 words]kid berthaNov 5, 2007 14:4394113
ISLAM NOT A RELIGION OF PEACE [114 words]NinaNov 7, 2007 18:1994113
bravo [110 words]kcOct 21, 2009 01:0394113
Islam is not a relgion of Peace [20 words]sahilApr 10, 2011 13:5694113
2Monotheism vs Polytheism [225 words]IndianMay 17, 2007 03:5993309
Very right but still slightly off. [140 words]True-IndianSep 22, 2007 11:2693309
what is the truth? [51 words]najeebSep 15, 2009 09:1293309
Shiites [59 words]Dr Erich MeyerMay 8, 2007 23:5892175
Why US should attack Islamic Iran now ??? [642 words]ShivaMay 4, 2007 10:1591639
1Finally a factual message has been posted [372 words]kid berthaMay 5, 2007 09:3291639
1Right on! [332 words]Nick4693Sep 13, 2007 22:5291639
there's no why! [84 words]SunaJan 18, 2010 15:3691639
Plato [302 words]SohailApr 22, 2007 06:2090156
To Sohail: All mixed up [210 words]PlatoApr 23, 2007 08:4390156
So why should the West be the winner???? [2 words]aliApr 16, 2007 10:0089384
Answers for Ali [93 words]Noah WilkApr 19, 2007 18:3889384
how i see it [74 words]warnerApr 20, 2007 01:0189384
Ali your answer is in the Taliban video [99 words]PlatoApr 22, 2007 01:5889384
Three words for you [3 words]RJMay 1, 2007 00:0889384
How the West could lose: Reply to Mr.Ali. [47 words]Jaisingh ThakurJul 13, 2007 00:1689384
Why [35 words]aliJul 21, 2007 14:3489384
No... [93 words]adfJul 20, 2008 15:1789384
1why most of iranian hate arabs and islam? [17 words]persianDec 16, 2008 17:3189384
iranians hate arabs [4 words]joeSep 11, 2009 17:5189384
To Be the Big Dog or Not [628 words]MichaelApr 11, 2007 11:4989023
A muslim duty [581 words]moderate MuslimApr 7, 2007 00:0088762
Reality check and fantasy [50 words]dhimmi no moreApr 7, 2007 18:1488762
make no sense [14 words]moderate MuslimApr 8, 2007 22:2288762
Yes I read it in Arabic a language that you do not know [27 words]dhimmi no moreApr 9, 2007 18:0988762
Honest answers, please! [343 words]Nick4693Sep 11, 2007 19:5788762
Now one question [106 words]moderate MuslimApr 6, 2007 23:3388757
M&M and his bogus context again and Q9:4 or 5 if you wish [53 words]dhimmi no moreApr 7, 2007 18:5188757
i dont even know [228 words]a muslim americanMar 27, 2007 22:1888086
Our dear M&M and Islamic meltdown part deux [19 words]dhimmi no moreMar 28, 2007 17:1588086
1A NORMAL MUSLIM... [341 words]DONVANApr 5, 2007 14:0488086
oil and water [86 words]todd morrisonOct 16, 2007 23:2588086
wow.... [51 words]moderate MuslimMar 27, 2007 15:3388065
It says ya ayuha al-nass! [105 words]dhimmi no moreMar 29, 2007 17:5788065
dhimmi, READ YOUR OWN EVIDENCE FIRST [225 words]moderate MuslimMar 30, 2007 19:3088065
For Our dear M&M and his bogus arabic and the Qur'an really says that islam is the religion of the Arabs only and you ain't one [718 words]dhimmi no moreApr 2, 2007 19:4188065
The poor Arabic translation of Picktall another wannabe Arab! [446 words]dhimmi no moreApr 3, 2007 07:2688065
For our dear M&m and argument from silence! And Islam is indeed the religion of the Hijazi Arabs as per Q14:4 and you ain't one [30 words]dhimmi no moreApr 5, 2007 18:1488065
One more time pt 2 [243 words]moderate MuslimMar 26, 2007 19:2788016
fantasy world of islam [286 words]susanMar 28, 2007 15:2688016
Still in denial, "Moderate" Muslim [357 words]Noah WilkMar 28, 2007 16:5988016
yeah ok [26 words]moderate MuslimMar 28, 2007 19:1988016
3Why are you making excuses, Moderate Muslim? [322 words]Noah WilkMar 31, 2007 17:5688016
were you at the rallies? [40 words]susanApr 1, 2007 10:0388016
Ok, so What? [11 words]moderate MuslimApr 2, 2007 19:0388016
the usual cheap excuse [11 words]susanApr 3, 2007 02:5688016
Ignorance is no excuse [168 words]Noah WilkApr 5, 2007 14:5188016
I will not stand for hate. [42 words]moderate MuslimApr 6, 2007 23:3688016
Moderate Muslim corners himself! [393 words]Noah WilkApr 7, 2007 16:2488016
Misunderstanding [311 words]moderate MuslimApr 7, 2007 21:1588016
easy [51 words]susanApr 8, 2007 07:1888016
the 1960's [27 words]moderate MuslimApr 8, 2007 22:2488016
not an "image" problem [297 words]susanApr 9, 2007 07:2088016
Speaking of hate and the Qur'an [83 words]dhimmi no moreApr 9, 2007 18:1988016
Why not burn effigies? [80 words]Noah WilkApr 9, 2007 20:5288016
noah [62 words]moderate MuslimApr 10, 2007 21:4888016
Back to Morous (12 seconds on the shot clock) [3677 words]moderate MuslimMar 25, 2007 22:1287974
Our dear M&M and cut and paste jobs Paki/Arabic and the bogus hadith! [522 words]dhimmi no moreMar 27, 2007 20:2387974
an addendum and my source for the hadith literary criticism [20 words]dhimmi no moreMar 28, 2007 07:0687974
My compliments to the sheik (morous 360 dunk in moderate's face, the crowd goes wild) [1370 words]MOROUSMar 28, 2007 16:3987974
To Moderate Muslim: [894 words]PlatoMar 30, 2007 04:2287974
No, I respect many [89 words]moderate MuslimMar 30, 2007 19:2587974
To Moderate Muslim: But Allah hates other religions [234 words]PlatoApr 1, 2007 02:0587974
numbers matter [54 words]susanApr 1, 2007 10:1387974
Here's your answer Plato [129 words]moderate MuslimApr 2, 2007 19:0987974
heh, ok right, that is so bogus [40 words]moderate MuslimApr 2, 2007 19:2487974
let's start from... [46 words]susanApr 3, 2007 03:1587974
And speaking of bogus! [86 words]dhimmi no moreApr 4, 2007 17:2987974
your answer [535 words](moderate) Muslim (though all real Muslims are moderate)Apr 5, 2007 22:0887974
christian arabs are first victims of muslims [243 words]susanApr 8, 2007 07:2687974
Islam and Terror [1398 words]moderate Muslim AmericanMar 22, 2007 17:4387720
Hamza Yusuf a Muslim scholar? LOL! [187 words]dhimmi no moreMar 23, 2007 19:2287720
2Nothing's more fun than debunking "Muslim Logic" [2959 words]Noah WilkMar 23, 2007 21:1887720
To Moderate Muslim: It is just a wish-list you have given us [2577 words]PlatoMar 24, 2007 06:4087720
M&M and David Chappelle exposed [147 words]dhimmi no moreMar 25, 2007 09:1487720
high muslim clerics agree with bin laden [394 words]susanMar 27, 2007 15:2487720
ok? [44 words]moderate Muslim-Mar 27, 2007 22:0087720
you just proved how ignorant islamphobes are [82 words]Islamophobic ignoranceMar 28, 2007 15:2687720
Precisely why we condemn you [380 words]Noah WilkMar 28, 2007 17:1887720
The little olive institute [32 words]dhimmi no moreMar 28, 2007 17:4587720
Our dear M&M and Yusuf Hamza's ancestry [25 words]dhimmi no moreMar 28, 2007 17:5187720
thanks.. [8 words]moderate MuslimMar 28, 2007 19:2087720
Islamophobia, really? [298 words]dhimmi no moreMar 29, 2007 07:2287720
Because , the most comfortable position for a coward is to struggle to be portrayed a "moderate" (&) Moslem. [611 words]Ynna(tchkah)Mar 29, 2007 13:4087720
poor reply [71 words]susanMar 29, 2007 13:4287720
like you said something... [91 words]susanMar 29, 2007 13:5087720
we need ears to listen and eyes to see [252 words]Islamophobia no more...Mar 29, 2007 16:3887720
chechnya is sufi [20 words]susanApr 1, 2007 10:1487720
I dont think you get it (Ynna (tchkah) [129 words]moderate MuslimApr 2, 2007 19:2387720
and why? [41 words]moderate MuslimApr 2, 2007 19:2787720
Our dear Islamophobia no more and his little diatribes [48 words]dhimmi no moreApr 2, 2007 19:5487720
Congratulations for not going to work to CAIR [108 words]Ynna (tchkah)Apr 3, 2007 03:0287720
skewed perception of Islamophobes [138 words]Islamophobia no moreApr 3, 2007 03:0387720
africa's fault is african [146 words]susanApr 3, 2007 03:2287720
an Islamophobe [259 words]Islamophobia no moreApr 3, 2007 03:3287720
cair wants sharia [39 words]susanApr 3, 2007 03:3987720
More diatribes from our dear INM aka M&M [103 words]dhimmi no moreApr 3, 2007 18:4387720
YOU DON'T GET THE POINT [19 words]moderate MuslimApr 3, 2007 20:2787720
For our dear INM and what is an Islamophobe part deux [343 words]dhimmi no moreApr 4, 2007 07:5387720
no matter how you turn it [67 words]susanApr 4, 2007 14:5187720
nobody is irrationally vilifying islam [234 words]susanApr 4, 2007 15:0887720
sharia allows slavery [18 words]susanApr 4, 2007 17:3987720
Dropping names and Si, comprende mucho! [111 words]dhimmi no moreApr 4, 2007 17:4887720
fallacy of bias history-reading [108 words]Islamophobia no moreApr 5, 2007 01:5987720
islamophobia, the stupidest word ever invented [124 words]susanApr 5, 2007 16:3087720
Cair and other people [171 words]moderate MuslimApr 5, 2007 22:1587720
CAIR [374 words]Noah WilkApr 6, 2007 14:5587720
Why then do you support it? [290 words]Noah WilkApr 6, 2007 15:0387720
cair = sharia = stone age [70 words]susanApr 6, 2007 15:1987720
Noah [124 words]moderate MuslimApr 6, 2007 23:4087720
M&M CAIR (big time LOL) and his flawed logic! [344 words]dhimmi no moreApr 7, 2007 08:3787720
Yes, Moderate Muslim, you ARE responsible! [516 words]Noah WilkApr 7, 2007 16:4587720
ROTFL [44 words]dhimmi no moreApr 7, 2007 18:3787720
al-Shari3a [10 words]dhimmi no moreApr 7, 2007 18:3987720
CAIR and mockery [26 words]dhimmi no moreApr 8, 2007 11:4087720
i'll see [37 words]moderate MuslimApr 8, 2007 22:3487720
Why aren't moderate muslims standing up? [55 words]Bob SterlingAug 20, 2007 23:5187720
why should the west win anyways if it continues with its current programme of warmongering? [434 words]cocoMay 6, 2009 12:0187720
islam & terror [627 words]John EdwardsOct 27, 2009 15:1387720
so here are you answers more if you want em [29 words]moderate MuslimMar 20, 2007 19:3287302
Moderate Muslim fails again! [1415 words]Noah WilkMar 21, 2007 15:3287302
mauritania has got legal slavery, allowed in islam [15 words]susanMar 21, 2007 16:5787302
MM [230 words]JaladhiMar 21, 2007 18:0187302
handshake with Kuffar? "Muslim debate schemes" and other sordid matters! [599 words]dhimmi no moreMar 22, 2007 07:5187302
morocco 50% literacy rate [18 words]susanMar 22, 2007 10:0387302
"Muslim debate schemes"! part deux [452 words]dhimmi no moreMar 24, 2007 14:1087302
Dhimmi No More - defenders of the faith have left town!!! [40 words]JaladhiMar 26, 2007 16:5687302
Your answer Plato (which is a really bad name for you, because it dishonores someone who actually thought [169 words]Moderate MuslimMar 20, 2007 19:1887298
Was the post for me? [45 words]PlatoMar 21, 2007 08:3087298
Try paying attention, Moderate Muslim [570 words]Noah WilkMar 21, 2007 17:5587298
blatantly clear? LOL [178 words]dhimmi no moreMar 21, 2007 19:5087298
To MM: Would Mohammed be a good name for me? [130 words]PlatoMar 22, 2007 14:0087298
you guys hate the truth, dontcha [23 words]moderate MuslimMar 22, 2007 17:1087298
clarification [36 words]Moderate MuslimMar 22, 2007 17:1287298
No, Im not beyond help, although I dont need much [73 words]moderate MuslimMar 22, 2007 17:1587298
Free will in islam? LOL [379 words]dhimmi no moreMar 24, 2007 08:1587298
you like lies don'tcha? [148 words]susanMar 25, 2007 10:2187298
To Syed [17 words]moderate MuslimMar 16, 2007 19:3086570
LOL syed is asking for caliphate [8 words]susanMar 18, 2007 10:1686570
Syed? LOL He has no credibility! [172 words]dhimmi no moreMar 18, 2007 12:5086570
Syeds are not Iranians?? [83 words]JaladhiMar 19, 2007 17:1886570
What? [35 words]moderate MuslimMar 19, 2007 19:2486570
For our dear M&M and islam [73 words]dhimmi no moreMar 20, 2007 17:4886570
To Moderate Muslim: Spreading Islam by avoiding unpleasant facts [389 words]PlatoMar 22, 2007 13:3586570
Sure, Syed's the perfect choice [230 words]JeffMar 27, 2007 18:2386570
i wasnt..... [77 words]moderate MuslimMar 27, 2007 22:0286570
THE JOKE'S ON YOU (DHIMMI) [32 words]moderate MuslimMar 16, 2007 19:2786568
And your point is? [244 words]dhimmi no moreMar 18, 2007 12:4086568
You dont know me, you dont even care [110 words]moderate MuslimMar 19, 2007 19:3686568
avoiding the sex slaves matter [52 words]susanMar 20, 2007 16:1186568
Uno Questiono por legion of doom [36 words]moderate MuslimMar 16, 2007 19:2586566
To Moderate Muslim: Global warming a belief? [63 words]PlatoMar 17, 2007 23:1186566
The Official Stance of the Legion of Doom On Global Warming [59 words]Noah WilkMar 18, 2007 10:1786566
youre just not answering [43 words]moderate MuslimMar 19, 2007 19:2986566
heheh, thanks plato [25 words]moderate MuslimMar 19, 2007 19:3086566
You were indeed given an answer [209 words]Noah WilkMar 20, 2007 15:2986566
They're not scared [107 words]Noah WilkMar 20, 2007 15:3686566
sex slaves conspiracy [101 words]susanMar 20, 2007 16:1486566
?? [72 words]moderate MuslimMar 22, 2007 17:1986566
Yes, you are on trial [223 words]Noah WilkMar 23, 2007 18:5786566
islam is not on trial, it's already convicted [14 words]susanMar 25, 2007 10:2686566
heh please [45 words]moderate MuslimMar 26, 2007 19:1686566
Spain and Arabian imperialism and justifying the absurd [69 words]dhimmi no moreMar 27, 2007 20:4886566
spain? islam flourished? [2978 words]susanMar 28, 2007 02:5786566
Islam is peace [103 words]moderate MuslimMar 14, 2007 21:3686334
disproved [331 words]susanMar 15, 2007 16:2486334
Islam and violence and silence [116 words]dhimmi no moreMar 18, 2007 17:3486334
uh NO [7 words]moderate MuslimMar 19, 2007 19:2586334
Our dear M&M has never been to a madrassa! [81 words]dhimmi no moreMar 24, 2007 14:2286334
ALARMING NEWS - POLYGAMOUS MUSLIM IMMIGRANTS ARE WELCOME IN US WITH UP TO FOUR WIVES [211 words]Sofa SogoodMar 14, 2007 14:4586290
A Peaceful Muslim Country (oh my) [259 words]moderate MuslimMar 11, 2007 21:2185929
...muslim [492 words]susanMar 12, 2007 18:3085929
very poor example [255 words]susanMar 12, 2007 18:4085929
Dave Chapelle? and who the heck is he? And why should we like him or hate him for this matter [235 words]dhimmi no moreMar 12, 2007 19:3985929
MALAYSIA A PEACEFUL MUSLIM COUNTRY???LOL [110 words]MOROUSMar 13, 2007 16:5385929
Malaysia is Saudi Arabia of East [142 words]JaladhiMar 13, 2007 19:1385929
Talking points, pillars, quibbles, quotes, examples, and some words of wisdom from the kennedys. [972 words]moderate MuslimMar 13, 2007 19:3285929
MY EMAILS? [13 words]muslimMar 13, 2007 21:2385929
Malaysia is Saudi Arabia of East - Pt. 2 [133 words]JaladhiMar 14, 2007 16:2785929
The good ole pillars of islam! [84 words]dhimmi no moreMar 14, 2007 16:4385929
kennedy quote? [659 words]susanMar 14, 2007 16:4485929
why does everyone not get it [32 words]moderate MuslimMar 14, 2007 19:4085929
huh?? [339 words]morousMar 15, 2007 12:2285929
Our dear M&M and you ain't Muqatil [61 words]dhimmi no moreMar 15, 2007 20:0485929
To Morous-Clarify a few things [291 words]moderate MuslimMar 15, 2007 21:2585929
your clarification Moderate [664 words]MorousMar 17, 2007 11:4685929
one clarification: malaysia has got sharia law [41 words]susanMar 18, 2007 10:1985929
literal interpretation [68 words]susanMar 18, 2007 10:2285929
Reply to Reply : morous [116 words]moderate MuslimMar 18, 2007 17:1585929
women as humans? [31 words]susanMar 20, 2007 04:5185929
It's Back in your court MODERATE [616 words]MorousMar 20, 2007 13:2585929
Malaysia? [171 words]surjApr 20, 2007 22:3485929
More Answers (Aisha) (ra) [2787 words]moderate MuslimMar 11, 2007 21:0685919
aisha the child [103 words]susanMar 12, 2007 18:3385919
To Moderate Muslim: Hiding the shame of Aisha's age and a Maulana abrogates 9:29 [989 words]PlatoMar 13, 2007 01:1385919
3A'isha and real history! and playing with dolls! [648 words]dhimmi no moreMar 13, 2007 07:2885919
Lies will not change historical age of Aisha at the time of her marriage [157 words]JaladhiMar 20, 2007 15:4385919
The Ultimate Post- No Hiding, No Crying, Just Answers [8353 words]moderate MuslimMar 8, 2007 22:1385330
I'm cherry picking Moderate Muslim's huge post [2178 words]Noah WilkMar 9, 2007 04:1485330
For our dear M&M and his bogus command of Islamic theology [454 words]dhimmi no moreMar 9, 2007 18:0085330
To Moderate Muslim: Ethical basis of Islam and the thrashing of women by men [2001 words]PlatoMar 10, 2007 07:3085330
For our dear Moderate Msulim and what is really a moderate Muslim?And other sordid matters [885 words]dhimmi no moreMar 10, 2007 07:4085330
More Answers-To Dhimmi [293 words]moderate MuslimMar 10, 2007 13:2085330
Our dear M&M and he is really a "bait"? and Jihad or holy war revisited part deux [653 words]dhimmi no moreMar 10, 2007 14:1585330
moderate [592 words]susanMar 10, 2007 15:0185330
For our dear M&M and Q2:216 ...part one! [832 words]dhimmi no moreMar 11, 2007 09:2885330
dhimmi ... [26 words]susanMar 11, 2007 10:3985330
For our dear M&M and Q9:4 part deux! [541 words]dhimmi no moreMar 11, 2007 14:4185330
moderate Muslim [61 words]moderate MuslimMar 11, 2007 17:4285330
Condemnable Offenses. Controlling Men [91 words]moderate MuslimMar 11, 2007 17:4585330
you have no idea what a race is again [13 words]susanMar 12, 2007 03:3885330
M&M and more fantasy [262 words]dhimmi no moreMar 12, 2007 07:5285330
To Moderate Muslim: Fight to make your neighbours submit to Allah [179 words]PlatoMar 12, 2007 10:1585330
response to moderate muslim [555 words]morousMar 12, 2007 16:2585330
invented by modern people? [111 words]susanMar 12, 2007 18:3085330
yeah, so? [97 words]moderate MuslimMar 12, 2007 19:2485330
To Moderate Muslim: On rape and chopping off hands [583 words]PlatoMar 12, 2007 23:1885330
Uh no [17 words]moderate MuslimMar 13, 2007 19:3385330
the joke is on you morous [36 words]moderate MuslimMar 13, 2007 19:3685330
Hypocritical Muslim [56 words]Noah WilkMar 13, 2007 20:4385330
origins [183 words]dhimmi no moreMar 13, 2007 21:5885330
Racism! Really? [147 words]dhimmi no moreMar 14, 2007 12:3185330
i am 100% correct [57 words]susanMar 14, 2007 16:2285330
More evidence [47 words]dhimmi no moreMar 14, 2007 16:5685330
Hypocrisy - thy name is.... [46 words]JaladhiMar 14, 2007 17:3185330
Jesus is god? [26 words]moderate muslimMar 14, 2007 19:3185330
not quite making sense - at all [129 words]moderate MuslimMar 14, 2007 19:3785330
lies [30 words]moderate MuslimMar 14, 2007 19:3885330
His words? [226 words]dhimmi no moreMar 15, 2007 07:3985330
Muslims suppress free debate on anti Semitism at Leeds University, UK [163 words]DelboyMar 15, 2007 09:4985330
MM [135 words]susanMar 15, 2007 16:1485330
2My dear M&M and i'm glad that you asked and the Qur'an really says that Jesus is God! [93 words]dhimmi no moreMar 15, 2007 19:5985330
Uh what? [38 words]moderate MuslimMar 16, 2007 19:2185330
MM - Read Dhimmi No More's(who knows Arabic) posts to understand Q9:4 [92 words]JaladhiMar 19, 2007 17:4885330
Respond to what? [58 words]dhimmi no moreMar 19, 2007 20:1485330
For our dear M&M and the Qur'an really says that jesus is God and the bogus tawheed [140 words]dhimmi no moreMar 20, 2007 07:5185330
THAT'S NOT WHAT THE KORAN SAYS [22 words]MOROUSMar 20, 2007 14:0285330
The fundamentally faulty logic of the person called dhimmi no more [201 words]moderate MuslimMar 20, 2007 19:0185330
Astaghfirullah is M&M's lame answer [239 words]dhimmi no moreMar 23, 2007 07:2885330
Flat? Hardly [31 words]Moderate MuslimMar 25, 2007 21:5385330
ONCE AGAIN MODERATE, THE KORAN CONTRADICTS YOU [172 words]MOROUSMar 28, 2007 17:0885330
Hand Chopping and Adultery [74 words]Mukhtar Ahmed KashifJul 30, 2009 12:4785330
Why I am proud to be a member of the Legion of Doom! [354 words]Noah WilkMar 8, 2007 21:0985321
The wake up call [15 words]Moderate MuslimFeb 26, 2007 16:2579077
You're talking, but you're not saying anything, Moderate Muslim [499 words]Noah WilkFeb 26, 2007 20:3579077
PEACEFUL NATION? YEAH, COMPARED TO THE HUNS [53 words]Moderate MuslimFeb 28, 2007 07:3279077
homework for moderate muslim [155 words]susanFeb 28, 2007 15:3479077
MM, you very well described actions of Muslims [98 words]JaladhiFeb 28, 2007 17:4279077
mob muslim contradiction [97 words]susanFeb 28, 2007 18:1079077
to mod.muslim [145 words]AnnaFeb 28, 2007 19:3479077
Susan [507 words]Moderate MuslimFeb 28, 2007 20:3479077
For our dear M&M and more fantasy [371 words]dhimmi no moreMar 1, 2007 06:0279077
peace.. [125 words]donvanMar 1, 2007 09:1879077
YES [87 words]Moderate MuslimMar 1, 2007 19:5079077
Strive to forgive what? [15 words]dhimmi no moreMar 2, 2007 17:2279077
don't believe you [65 words]susanMar 3, 2007 12:4879077
Response to Susan [153 words]moderate MuslimMar 5, 2007 20:0779077
educated fanatics.. [14 words]donvanMar 6, 2007 15:0079077
Anti-Semitic propaganda from our "Moderate" Muslim [340 words]Noah WilkMar 7, 2007 12:5179077
so many mistakes again [263 words]susanMar 7, 2007 15:0279077
NOT ANTI-SEMITIC [177 words]moderate muslimMar 7, 2007 17:4279077

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