You're still overlooking important points
Reader comment on item: How the West Could Lose
Submitted by Noah Wilk (United States), Jan 9, 2007 at 18:25
Michael C. Zala wrote:
"First of all - I apologize for anything which may have offended you all."
No offense taken. I'm pretty hard to offend, so don't worry about that. :-)
"Historically however, as some of you mentioned, we do indeed have a lot of skeletons in the closet too."
Which is true, but irrelevant to the issue. We need to focus on today's problems and that problem is Islam. Muslims always try to obscure the issue by bringing Christianity into it, which is why I tend to steer the focus away from that.
"Having said that - and I am not arguing the numbers ( took the 15% from Pipes) - if this huge standing army was so militant and is in this country for decades now, why haven't we seen suicide bombings yet? If this admittedly large and growing population segment was in its entirety fanatic, why have we not seen even a hint of domestic homegrown Islamic terrorism yet? (9/11 - I consider as import)"
Not seen a hint? Where have you been? Here's a link:
What about the terror plots that have been interrupted and prevented? Who knows how many there have been?
They're not stupid, you know. They know how to fight this war better than we do. They lay low, as sleeper cells, waiting. If they started doing suicide bombings, they know we'd turn on them in a heartbeat.
Also, the idea that Muslims in America are primarily non-violent defies common sense. Every other free country they migrate to, they enact violence...Netherlands, Britain, Spain, etc. Why not here? Because it's simply harder for them to launch plots here due to how aggressive we're being against them.
"Not one single suicide bombing in the US. How do you explain this, Noah?"
Again, it's called "strategy". They're working to slowly infiltrate and subvert our will at home while attacking us abroad. They're trying for a major 9/11 style assault, which they can then blame on "radicals" while trying to whitewash their death cult and claim that Islam is peaceful. If they tried acting like they do in Israel with constant suicide bombings, they would simply draw too much negative attention.
"Why do we see in the USA which is after all in spite of all home land security measures still one of the most vulnerable countries in the world due to our precious civil rights and freedom, more homegrown terrorism still (white supremacy, Oklahoma City, Una Bombings, Abortion Clinics)?"
There's no question that Oklahoma City had an islamic connection.
"One answer to the phenomenon may be that most of the millions of our domestic Muslims actually do enjoy the liberty, freedom and free pursuit of happiness."
A very dangerous assumption, given the reality of their subversive behavior.
"Do they internally sympathize with the fundamentalists?'
Yes, they do. I once again point out that in Arizona there was a rally designed specifically to give Muslims a chance to denounce terror and help promote the image of Islam as peaceful. In a community of 50,000 Muslims, virtually no one showed. Attendance was about 250 people, and most of them were dumb college kids (mainly white Americans) with signs saying "Bush Lied, Kids Died".
So where are all these so-called "peace loving" Muslims? Where are they hiding? Why are they hiding? Why do they currently throw tons of money into pro-terror organizations such as CAIR, various maddrassahs and mosques right here in America preaching hate, etc?
And if my experiences with them are any indication of them as a group, we're in trouble. I knew quite a few Muslims (mainly Jordanian, Egyptian, and so-called "Palestinian") here in my hometown. I often got into discussions, debates, even outright fights with these people. Almost to a person, they believed that America was a terrorist state, they hated Israel, they spewed propaganda and lies, and they were violent. Every time their terror leaders were killed by the Israelies, they plastered posters of the scumbag everywhere, across all their storefronts and homes, praising the terror leader. They hated their kids hanging out with non-Muslims, they routinely insulted Americans (whom they felt were inferior to them), and I actually saw first-hand the brainwashing process they put their kids through.
Worse yet, several of them learned that I had worked with various special forces groups because I was teaching a police course in the area and the subject came up. They actually tried to hire me to train their terrorist buddies overseas and offered me a great deal of money to travel there and do so. Which of course provoked a very negative response from me!
After 9/11, while that idiot Bush was appeasing his Saudi masters and claiming that Islam was a "religion of peace", the news reported that Americans were "harassing" Arabs and Muslims in a suburb not far from where I lived at the time. The whole news report on every station painted it as anti-Muslim bigotry and paranoia.
I was there. A bunch of these little cretins were standing around holding posters and signs of their favorite terrorist leaders...Bin Laden, Arafat, etc...and spewing all sorts of anti-American, anti-Semitic nonsense. They would have been lynched (and indeed should have been) had the police not come and intervened.
So again, I have seen how they act first-hand, and they simply cannot be trusted. They're a cowardly lot who prefer attacking innocent, unarmed women and children. You'll never see them attack without face masks and actually walk up to a Marin face-to-face.
"However, If we continue to put all Muslims into the same category, all we do is play in to the hands of Fundamentalist Islam. Hate creates hatred in return."
First, I don't buy that apologist slant on it. It subverts our will. What, if we behave nicely towards them, they're going to stop hating us? They have it better in Israel and in America than they have it in any Muslim country, don't they? They're not inhibited or discriminated against, or denied any rights that any other citizen has in either country. And yet we see constant suicide bombings in Israel and terrorist plots such as 9/11 here.
Second, you're right. Hatred creates hatred in return. And Islam started exporting their hate on the very same day their death cult came into existence and have been doing so ever since. So now the hatred is (rightfulyl) coming back to them. If anyone needs to sto being hateful, it's the Muslims.
"We must to my opinion help our own Muslim minorities to become leading examples for the entire Islamic third world while crushing any form of religious fanatism by any means needed domestically as well as abroad."
Why is it always we who have to do the helping? Have they never heard the saying "God helps those who help themselves"? Or doesn't that saying exist in Islamic thought? Look, we give them everything they need to fix their demented death cult. We give them equal rights, freedom of speech, freedom of assembly, freedom of the press. Why are they not doing anything with that? Why are all the so-called "peaceful Muslims" not marching on madrassahs right here in America and condemning the terror teachings and having the perpertrators arrested? Why are they not marching in the streets condeming the supposedly tiny minority of Muslims who are supposedly perverting their supposedly peaceful religion? Why are they not publishing pro-American/anti-terror articles, newspapers, etc?
Back to my Arizona example. There was a chance for 50,000 of them to rally and stand up for peace. No one showed.
"There are many ways to fight fundamentalism. Domestically we are not doing so bad, unless we start hatemongering and really inflame this so far silent army you describe, Noah."
Theyr'e a fifth column. They don't need to be inflamed. They're subverting our freedom on a daily basis and preverting our childrens' minds with their propaganda.
"But do we need to be aware of the risk? – you are absolutely right we must see the potential and work towards further and stronger assimilation of this culture into ours.'
No, WE don't need to do anything. THEY need to reform their religion and convert to non-violence and assimilate American culture. Speak English, denounce terror, stop engaging in xenophobia and racism, etc.
"But , Don, see my response to Noah, I simply fear that we too easily dispense with so many of peaceful Muslims to whom militant extremism is as foreign as it is to us. We just haven't heard from them sufficiently, which is why I challenged them today calling them out."
And they do not heed the call. They never do! What does this tell you?
"I am simply not willing yet to vilify an entire people. Especially not the ones living already in the western countries."
That's too bad, because they're more than willing to villify you and probably cut your head off if given the chance. Remember, CAIR, the largest Islamic organization in America, has publicly stated that they intend for Islam to be the one and only religion in America and for the Koran to be the supreme law of the land. Prepare yourself for dhimmitude or death, because that's what these so-called "peaceful" Muslims here in America are looking forward to.
"But if we continue to apply grosso modo clichés and label most Muslims as potential terrorists, then we will create the exact monster we warn against."
No offense, but you're starting to sound like one of their apologists. The monster exists. It is called Islam. It is a violent, death-worshipping mass psychosis. And it hates us. It always has hated us. It always will hate us. We play no role in creating that hate. Better for them to hate and fear us than for us to bury our heads in the sand and pretend that they're peaceful.
"Why not give them a chance to make the experiment work and not look back at the genocides of the Ottoman Empire or even their reformer Kemal Atatuerk?"
Oh, just overlook their violent history, right? Why not just forget the violent history of the KKK and the Nazis and let them come to power? Do you realize how much anti-American hatred there is in Muslim Turkey?
"Am I just an idealistic mumbo jumbo fool, trying to lookforward and see the glass half full, instead of continuously hammering them on their past?"
No, but I think you're making far too many excuses for them. We're not hammering them on their past. We're judging them by their current actions against us, which of course is no different from their depraved and violent actions from the very beginning of their cult.
The bottom line is that there can be no appeasement of, no apologies for, no submission to, and no mercy shown towards Islam. They consider all those things weak and decadent and it simply enflames them to more violence. They worship force and power, and that's what they must be shown. They're on the level of animals and must be trained as such. We are talking about a barbaric, dark ages, uncivilized group of people, after all. They must be taught with carrot and stick. Behave like civilized human beings and we will treat them as such. Continue to plague us like a violent virus and we will wipe them out. That they understand. Only when they realize that they can never win, only when we've broken their will to fight, will they stop engaging in violence.
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