4 readers online now  |  69 million page views

Can citizens not be asked to live in countries practicing the political societal system they are loyal too?

Reader comment on item: Islam vs. Islamism (article)
in response to reader comment: Almost getting there, and then the familiar U-turn

Submitted by Demolan (Netherlands), May 18, 2013 at 02:36

Very well said, Ron Thompson, great food for thought.

I agree with you almost entirely but with exceptions;

1. We do not necessarily have to despise Islam. We can respect it and the Muslims who follow it, admitting, as many of those pesky political correct and leftist Westerners do all the time, that our societal system, especially our high freedom for all, freedom of expression, does have flaws.

And we can present Muslims with our opinion that our system, in our opinion, is still the least bad societal system, despite of those flaws.

And we can present Muslims with the choice of living in those countries which practice the societal system they are loyal too, We can demand from them to make this choice, even if they don;'t like to think about it. Because then they can be held accountable, in their actions and words, on this choice.

At some point, tolerant people must be intolerant to intolerant people, actions and words, I think. But, we can say, we do respect your choice, and your freedom to choose. The only thing is; we request, demand even, that you do go live in a country to which you can be loyal to, in relation to it's political system. And there are plenty of Islamic, totalitarian states where you can live, if you prefer that system over ours. If it is un-economic to live in a country to which system you can be loyal to, too bad, you still should choose. either adapt your political views to your economic prospects or vice versa.

Again, I too am all for freedom of religion, freedom of speech, autonomy of the individual, constitutional state, but I draw the line of my tolerance with people who support an ideology that is against those very freedoms and principles.

Even if Muslims support an, in essence, totalitarian system, only in a way of membership, by saying and doing nothing against it on this issue of the organisation of the societal system. I think they should formally choose. If need be, so should all other citizens, or at least immigrants.

And again, I say to Muslims: I do respect your preference for a totalitarian system , but I prefer our own full democratic system. and aim to defend it, also against potential traitors to it. And you are THEN (but only then) perfectly allowed to kick real democratic people out of your Islamic totalitarian countries and sent them our way.

Which brings me to my second disagreement with you; You brilliantly said: Moderate Muslims are following a set of negatives, yes, overwhelmingly, but I think they can follow one positive tenet; that of preferring a fully democratic societal system over a totalitarian one.

Oh, and I realise how well Muslims can deceive us on this, but still, it gives us a handle, a sword of Damocles over their heads. And leverage among those pesky political correct and leftist people. By our rational desire and right to defend, yes, and even expand in a democratic way, our preferred societal system.

Submitting....

Note: Opinions expressed in comments are those of the authors alone and not necessarily those of Daniel Pipes. Original writing only, please. Comments are screened and in some cases edited before posting. Reasoned disagreement is welcome but not comments that are scurrilous, off-topic, commercial, disparaging religions, or otherwise inappropriate. For complete regulations, see the "Guidelines for Reader Comments".

Comment on this item

Mark my comment as a response to Can citizens not be asked to live in countries practicing the political societal system they are loyal too? by Demolan

Email me if someone replies to my comment

Note: Opinions expressed in comments are those of the authors alone and not necessarily those of Daniel Pipes. Original writing only, please. Comments are screened and in some cases edited before posting. Reasoned disagreement is welcome but not comments that are scurrilous, off-topic, commercial, disparaging religions, or otherwise inappropriate. For complete regulations, see the "Guidelines for Reader Comments".

See recent outstanding comments.

Follow Daniel Pipes

Facebook   Twitter   RSS   Join Mailing List
eXTReMe Tracker

All materials by Daniel Pipes on this site: © 1968-2020 Daniel Pipes. daniel.pipes@gmail.com and @DanielPipes

Support Daniel Pipes' work with a tax-deductible donation to the Middle East Forum.Daniel J. Pipes

(The MEF is a publicly supported, nonprofit organization under section 501(c)3 of the Internal Revenue Code.

Contributions are tax deductible to the full extent allowed by law. Tax-ID 23-774-9796, approved Apr. 27, 1998.

For more information, view our IRS letter of determination.)