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To Sayed Rafey:How many founders of religions indulged in wars of aggression?

Reader comment on item: Salman Rushdie and British Backbone
in response to reader comment: To Plato: Note that only those men, women and children who come to fight with you in battle field are made slave.

Submitted by Plato (United Arab Emirates), Jul 23, 2007 at 07:06

>>Dear Plato, first note war is not a Muslim tradition but history of humans.<<

You are right on that point. But war seems to have been a special tradition (or Sunnah) of the the founder of Islam unlike founders of most other religions (Christianity,Buddhism, Jainism, Sikhism Taoism, Zoarastrianism, and so on). If Islam came to set better standards than other religions then why did its founder have to indulge in so many violent actions whereas founders of other great religions found no such necessity. Soon after the Prophet gained power in Medina he began his gazwas or raids, so claiming war is not a Muslim tradition and passing the buck to humanity does not help. Try and pass this war buck to founders of other religions.

>>Quran encourages to fight with others for justice only and not to collect loot/booty or to make slaves including men, women and children.<<

Sayed, why do Muslims turn a blind eye to verses that clearly encourage Muslims to take up arms not for justice but so that Islam may prevail. Does not Allah say that no religion other than Islam is acceptable. Does He not make a binding promise (contract) to give you paradise if you kill or are killed in his cause?

>>Also note that only those men, women and children who come to fight with you in battle field are made slave. Not the people living in their homes. Same applies to killing of men. Women and children even in battle fields are not killed.<<

You have good sense of humour, Sayed. Where do you have instances of women and children (even babes in arms?) coming to fight. Are we to believe that all those women and children of the Banu Quraiza, which must have included the very old and the very young came out to fight (in fact the Banu Quraiza never gave battle) and so could be taken slaves and sold in the open market? Why did the Prophet send raiders to Nakhla and they shot and killed people who had done them no harm and capture some as salves/for ransom? Did the Battle of Badr take place because the Meccans came to fight the Muslims or the other way around?

>>I always say "Contract is always better than War. But sometimes war is inevitable when not enough effort is given to calm down reactive souls in pre-war period".<<

Was the Khaibar war inevitable. The jews were subdued in a surprise attack and so were the Banu Mustaliq.

Bukhari:V5 B59 N512 "The Prophet offered the Fajr Prayer [Prayer of Fear] near Khaybar when it was still dark. He said, ‘Allahu-Akbar!' [Allah is Greatest] Khaybar is destroyed, for whenever we approach a hostile nation to fight, then evil will be the morning for those who have been warned.' Then the inhabitants came out running on their roads. The Prophet had their men killed; their children and woman were taken as captives."

Where does it say the women and children came out to fight the Muslims. The Jewish men were only defending themselves from an unprovoked attack.

Bukhari vol 3,Book46, No. 717

"Narrated Ibn Aun:
Prophet had suddenly attacked Bani Mustaliq without warning while they were heedless and their cattle were being watered at the places of water. Their men were killed and their women and children were taken as captives; the Prophet got Juwairiya on that day.

Sayed Rafey why were enough efforts not made to 'calm down reactive souls'. And were these sould even 'reactive'? It is the Prophet 'reacting' against 'non-reactive' souls.

>>I am listing few wars with an intention to show that war is history of humans.<<

The listing of wars is unnecessary. We humans have fought wars even when we were in our ape state. Your intention clearly is to pass the burden of the many wars fought in the name of Islam on to the rest of humanity.

Why don't you give a list of wars that founders of religions fought and see who comes out on top?

Rgds

Plato

Submitting....

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