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To Maqsood: Part III: On who really has ugly intentions

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Submitted by Plato (India), Aug 23, 2007 at 03:02

Part III On who really has ugly intentions

P:You have to admit that the only blemish less being is Allah. That means even the Prophet can have blemishes. And blemishes he had in plenty. Books have been written about them.

M: Yeah people like you try to do so but they have never succeeded in their ugly intentions. Can you show me any authentic reference in favor of your statement???, Again until you don't believe in Allah, such statements about Him don't suit you.

P: You call my intentions ugly. Let us look at some of the sayings and actions of Allah and his prophet and judge whose intentions are ugly:

Allah the Mighty, Wise speaking:

48:19-20SHAKIR: And many acquisitions which they will take; and Allah is Mighty, Wise. Allah promised you many acquisitions which you will take, then He hastened on this one for you and held back the hands of men from you, and that it may be a sign for the believers and that He may guide you on a right path. [what is the right path that Allah is showing Muslims – to go about looting neighbouring tribes and countries?]

Those acquisitions that Allah promises are otherwise known as war booty and He also tells them to enjoy what they took in war, which included women and children: 8:69 SHAKIR: Eat then of the lawful and good (things) which you have acquired in war, and be careful of (your duty to) Allah; surely Allah is Forgiving, Merciful.

Allah has made war booty lawful for Muslims. In the modern perspective war booty is an obnoxious concept especially the taking of women and children as slaves.

The History of Tabari, vol 8, page 29-30

From his share of captive women, prophet gave his son-in-law, Ali a slave girl, Rayth bint Hilal to enjoy at his will. He also presented Uthman b. Affan, his son-in-law, another slave girl Zainab b Hayan, and bestowed another girl to his father-in-law Oman Ibn Khatttab. Oman gave that girl to his son Abdullah. Most of the Prophet's other elite companions received slave girls as gifts… (I want to ask you, Maqsood, what about the poor slave girl's will, or does the Prophet think that the female gender does not have a will?).

Muslims claim that the Prophet was against slavery and tried to discourage it. Does this incident give any indication that he is trying to discourage it?

Allah himself causes people to err and then sends them to hell for it! Read:

017.045-46 SHAKIR: And when you recite the Quran, We place between you and those who do not believe in the hereafter a hidden barrier; And We have placed coverings on their hearts and a heaviness in their ears lest they understand it, and when you mention your Lord alone in the Quran they turn their backs in aversion.

What kind of intention does Allah have, Maqsood. Good or evil??

Ibn Ishaq, Page 580:

The day we trod down the unbelievers

And found no deviation or turning from the Apostle's order.\

In battle…..

Often have we left the slain cut to pieces

And a widow crying Alas! Over her husband.

"Tis god not man we seek to please;

…..

Ibn Isahq page 646

Mohammed sent Kahlid Ibn al-Walid to the tribe of the children of Harithaa and told him: Call them to Islam before you fight them……

They entered Islam by force. He brought them to Mohammed. Mohammed said to them: Had you not accepted islam I would have cast your heads under your feet.

I can show from your history and hadiths the prophet ordering the killing of old men and women for criticizing him.

Maqsood, I am afraid you have not read the Koran, the hadiths and the sira carefully.

I wrote: P: What really is a pity is that Muslims have been indoctrinated into believing that whatever their Prophet did is blameless. When it is obvious that he did some things that were clearly cruel, unethical or immoral Allah intervenes with verses that absolve him. And Allah intervenes AFTER the Prophet had committed an unethical or immoral act.

M: Again you r making statements that are totally wrong. Can you show me your reference??? I m sorry you r such a narrow minded person. yoU wanted logical discussion. Tell me if it is logical to put such blames on a Prophet of Allah without any solid reference. See his whole life?? yoU can not find such a true, pure from any sort of crime person in the whole human history. See the reasons given by a Non Muslim Author of top 100 Personalities of Humanity, in which He gave him the rank of No. 1.

You want references. There are plenty and I will give you some. I have already given the example of Zaynab's marriage. 33:37-38. You have not said anything about this incident in which Allah converts what the Arabs of the day considered an immoral act into a permissible one.

What will you say to some one who has people who criticize him murdered? Don't give that nonsense again about Allah making it legitimate for him to do so. Hitler could make some similar claim, like for the good of the German people for his genocide.

I am going to relate some incidents from Mohammed's life from ‘The Life of Muahmmad' by Ibn Ishaq, translated by Alfred Guillaume, published by Oxford University Press, printed by Mas Printers, No. 38, Sector 15, Korangi Industrial Area, Karachi. If you are in Pakistan go get one or order it from Amazon.

You can claim, as many Muslims do that Ibn Ishaq cannot be believed. Then what can you believe? The Hadiths? If you refuse to believe Ishaq, I will dig out even worse stuff from them. But here is a sample from Ishaq.

Pg 676: When the apostle heard what she (Asma bint Marwan) said he said, ‘Who will rid me of Marwan's daughter? ‘Umair b. Adiya al-Khatmi who was with him heard him, and that very night he went to her house and killed her. In the morning he came to the apostle and told him what he had done and he said, ‘You have helped God and His apostle, O Umayr! When he asked if he would to bear any evil consequences the apostle said, ‘Two goats won't butt their heads about it,'…This is the mercy to mankind speaking, Maqsood!!

Page 369: The apostle said: Kill any Jew that falls into your power.' Thereupon Muhayyisa b. Masud leapt upon Ibn Sunayna, a Jewish merchant with whom they had social and business relations, and killed him. Huwayisa was not a Muslim at the time though he was the elder brother. When Muhayyisa killed him Huwayisa began to beat him, saying, ‘You enemy of God, did you kill when so much of the fat on your belly comes from his wealth? Muhayyisa answerd, ‘Had the one who ordered me to kill him ordered me to kill you I would have cut your head off.'

What does this say about your Prophet, Maqsood? This is what accepting Islam does to you. You lose your humanity. Your comment on this incident is requested.

Pg. 367. …The apostle said – according to what Abdullah al-Mughith Abu Burda told me - ‘Who will rid me of Ibnu'l-Ashraf?' Muhammad Maslama, brother of the B Abdul Ashhal said, ‘I will deal with him for you, O apostle of god, I will kill him. He said ‘Do so if you can……He said ‘O apostle of god we shall have to tell lies.' He said, ‘Say what you like, for you are free in the matter.' …..Ibn Abbas told me the apostle walked with them as far as Bqi ul Gharqad. Then he sent them off saying ‘Go in god's name; O God help them.' (They killed Asharaf).

Maqsood, here is your Prophet asking Allah's help to murder a man using deceit.

Pg. 308: When he (the apostle) was in Irqul-Zayba Uqba was killed. He had been captured by Abdullah Salima, one of the B al-Ajlan.

When the apostle ordered him to be killed Uqba said, ‘But who will look after my children, O Muhammad?' ‘Hell', he said, and Asim Thabi Abul Aqlah al –Ansari killed him according to what….

Maqsood you asked me: See his whole life?? yoU can not find such a true, pure from any sort of crime person in the whole human history.

I have given you a few incidents from the life of your Prophet. I can give you many more but lack of time stops me. Can you now repeat that statement of yours about not being able to find such a ‘true, pure from any sort of crime person in the whole of human history'.

I can give you many who were never touched by any such crimes. Gautam Buddha. Hammurabi. King Khusroe. Jesus Christ. Mahatma Gandhi. None of them were involved in having people killed for criticism or manipulated Allah to have his wishes fulfilled.

You have given us a ranking of famous people in which Mohammed is number one. Being a top human personality or influential person does not necessarily make one a top good human personality.

Here is what I found about the person who did the ranking: Michael Hart, born 1932), U.S. ex-NASA astrophysicist and author, best known as the author of the book The 100: A Ranking of the Most Influential Persons in History

Is this astro-physicist qualified to rank historical characters. I also note that the list contains people like Stalin, Queen Isabella, Hitler, and Genghis Khan. That should tell you something.

M:Can you quote me the reference Ahadiths Plato???? (Aysha's age)

I can quote plenty. Here is a sample.

Volume 5, Book 58, Number 236:

Narrated Hisham's father:

Khadija died three years before the Prophet departed to Medina. He stayed there for two years or so and then he married 'Aisha when she was a girl of six years of age, and he consumed that marriage when she was nine years old.

Volume 7, Book 62, Number 64:

Narrated 'Aisha:

that the Prophet married her when she was six years old and he consummated his marriage when she was nine years old, and then she remained with him for nine years (i.e., till his death).

Volume 7, Book 62, Number 88:

Narrated 'Ursa:

The Prophet wrote the (marriage contract) with 'Aisha while she was six years old and consummated his marriage with her while she was nine years old and she remained with him for nine years (i.e. till his death). http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/reference/searchhadith.html

From Bukhari vol. 7, #65:

"Narrated Aisha that the prophet wrote the marriage contract with her when she was six years old and he consummated his marriage when she was nine years old. Hisham said: "I have been informed that Aisha remained with the prophet for nine years (i.e. till his death).""

Bukhari vol. 7, #88:

"Narrated Urwa: "The prophet wrote the (marriage contract) with Aisha while she was six years old and consummated his marriage with her while she was nine years old and she remained with him for nine years (i.e. till his death).""

Bukhari vol. 5, #234 says:

"Narrated Aisha: The prophet engaged me when I was a girl of six. We went to Medina and stayed at the home of Harith Kharzraj. Then I got ill and my hair fell down. Later on my hair grew (again) and my mother, Um Ruman, came to me while I was playing in a swing with some of my girl friends. She called me, and I went to her, not knowing what she wanted to do to me. She caught me by the hand and made me stand at the door of the house. I was breathless then, and when my breathing became all right, she took some water and rubbed my face and head with it. Then she took me into the house. There in the house I saw some Ansari women who said, "Best wishes and Allah's blessing and a good luck." Then she entrusted me to them and they prepared me (for the marriage). Unexpectedly Allah's messenger came to me in the forenoon and my mother handed me over to him, and at that time I was a girl of nine years of age. (Did the Prophet not consummate the marriage at age six because Aysha fell ill?)

FROM THE HADITH OF THE SUNAN OF ABU DAWUD

Abu Dawud's Hadith is the third most respected Hadith in Islam.

From Abu Dawud, Vol. 2, #2116:

"Aisha said, "The Apostle of Allah married me when I was seven years old." (The narrator Sulaiman said: "Or six years."). "He had intercourse with me when I was 9 years old."

FROM THE HISTORY OF TABARI

Tabari wrote the most authentic Islamic history. It covers 39 volumes. Tabari was one of the greatest Islamic scholars and the greatest Islamic Historian.

From Tabari, volume 7, page7:

"....my marriage (to Muhammad) was consummated when I was nine....."

From Tabari, volume 9, page 131

"Then the men and women got up and left. The Messenger of God consummated his marriage with me in my house when I was nine years old. Neither a camel nor a sheep was slaughtered on behalf of me"......(The Prophet) married her three years before the Emigration, when she was seven years old and consummated the marriage when she was nine years old, after he had emigrated to Medina in Shawwal. She was eighteen years old when he died.

http://www.answering-islam.org/Silas/childbrides.htm

If you are not satisfied with these I can find you more.\!

P:It has been pointed out many times that the Prophet not marrying while Khadija was alive had a lot to do with the fact that Khadija being the one with the money (the Prophet was a poor employee of hers) Mohammed would have found it tough to marry another woman. But the moment he was free of Khadija he went about marrying with abandon. Also it has been pointed out that marriage to Saudah was another one of convenience as he needed a matron to take care of his children.

M: What a pity oyu r??? What a liar you r??? How can u say that?? Have you read about his life?? Do you know how he lived? How he used to sleep? What he used to eat? He spent the life of a role model for the whole humanity. I am sure now you can never learn something good because your mission is to spread falsehood intentionally. It is said in Quran about people like you who are deaf, dumb etc. I hope now you understand the context of that ayat. For other peoples clarity I will ask do you have any reference about your statements??

P: That really rattled you. Did what I quoted from the earliest biography not rattle you also. If not why not??

There are no references to what was going on in Muhammad's mind when he married Khadija. But the facts are clear. He was poor. He was Khadija's employee. Khadija was rich and powerful. Ask yourself Maqsood, if you were poor and not yet a Prophet, and if a rich and powerful woman married you, would you dare or would you be able to marry a pretty young thing while the rich, powerful woman remained your wife? What is required is not any reference but inference from the known facts. Especially the fact that that he started marrying young and beautiful women after Khadija's death.

Read in Ibn Ishaq page 493 where Aisha says as soon as she saw Juwayriya al-Harith ‘she took an instant dislike for her, for I knew that he would see her as I saw her.' As soon as Muhammed saw her he offered to marry her. Also read the story of his forced marriage of Safiya before the bodies of her murdered husband (want to read how he was killed?), and other relatives had cooled.

So when you ask: What a pity oyu r??? What a liar you r??? How can u say that?? Have you read about his life?? Do you know how he lived? How he used to sleep? What he used to eat? He spent the life of a role model for the whole humanity.

It seems you are the one who has not read about his life. You have probably only listened to what your madrassa mullah told you about the Prophet. I am not the one to be pitied. People who believe without proof, or believe whatever is told to them without checking the facts ought to be pitied.

And I am not the liar, if at all there is a liar here, it is Ibn Ishaq, Tabari, Bukhari and your other respected scholars. I have used only sources respected and accepted by Muslims.

The Prophet was certainly a good role model for Muslims. Muslims follow him closely. You can see that everyday in the newspapers. Suicide bombings, beheadings of innocents, killing innocent people because of a cartoon in a far off place. Attacks on authors of books like Salman Rushdie and Taslima Nasreen a la Asma Bint Marwan and Kab bin Ashraf.

M: But u could not show me even a single hadith for what you r claiming….. (Aysha's age at marriage)

P: Now that I have given plenty of shahi hadiths for Aysha's age in my reply above what do you have to say.

Submitting....

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