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Pork Forbidden as per Nature

Reader comment on item: Salman Rushdie and British Backbone
in response to reader comment: To Maqsood: Islamic beliefs dressed up to look like science.

Submitted by Maqsood (Pakistan), Aug 6, 2007 at 07:41

Plato,

P: You can eat anything edible. Millions eat pork without any great effect on their health. People who eat pork are among the most long-lived and healthy people on earth. The Europeans, Americans, Chinese…

Pork is not a poisonous substance that will kill you or damage your health.

M:What do you mean by edible?? Chinese eat snakes, scorpians, small insects R all these things are edible to you?? I saw once on internet that in thailand there is a restourant who serves the soup of dead children is it edible??? U yourself said that some people in Africa drink/eat blood. Can you do that?/ what is the boundary. If someone likes to eat human meat like your horror movies, what will you say about that.

P:It may be enough reason for Muslims to not eat pork. But non-Muslims need more reason than Islamic scripture to avoid pork.

M: U can find more reasons as described below.

P:The Christians did not see any merit in this taboo and so do the wise thing and eat pork which is a good source of proteins and energy.

M: I would like to ask christians that what they say about this. I mean whether they negate this order from bible or simply they dont follow but have believe? In either case it is challenge to christians (about half of world population).

P:Reading this comment of yours one would think that the Christians, Chinese, Koreans and others who eat pork would be disease ridden people and the Muslim world full people in spanking good health. That obviously is not the case.

M: Yes if would be depending only the food ( pork) then it should be true but there are other factors too.

P:Also have you ever bothered to read the pamphlet that comes with any medicine you buy? If you read it would you dare to consume any of it, even the life saving anti-biotics.

M:If it is known to a Muslim, He will not use these unless there is life threat. As in that case Islam allows the haram but with the condition of no other option.

P:Maqsood pig organs are so close to human ones that they have been approved for transplant into humans. Apart from being good source of nourishment they will soon be saving human lives. What will you do if your doctor suggests such a transplant to save a dear one?

M:Yes they might be close to humans and this supports the Quran that these and apes are converted forms of humans. And answer about transplant is same as for medicine.

P:What kind of science are you talking. Not just animal fat, cereals, nuts and practically all edible material have fat building material. Pigs also have muscle and other tissues made of proteins all of which can build muscle. When you give figures like 50% of Americans suffering from hypertension please quote your source and also figures for Muslim countries for comparison.

M: Yes you r right but pork has very little muscle building material and maximum fats. I think you will definitely agree that fats are not good for health. So y you cant eliminate the biggest source? for hypertension.

The Reference is http://www.ajmc.com/Article.cfm?Menu=1&ID=3046

i am quoting few lines

The Latest NHANES Data

The most recent NHANES data (2001-2002) presented at the 2005 American Society of Hypertension scientific meeting indicate that hypertension is a worsening public health problem.11 One of every 3 Americans has hypertension,11 a 4.7% increase from previously reported data.4

As with earlier reports, these data continue to indicate that age, weight, and ethnicity are strong predictors of hypertension. Almost 50% of people with hypertension in the United States are =65 years of age, and 7 of 10 elderly Americans have hypertension. Approximately 80% of people with hypertension in the United States are overweight or obese (BMI =25 kg/m2). The highest prevalence occurs among blacks: a 46% prevalence rate compared with 29% among Hispanics, 32% in whites, and 33% in other ethnic groups.11 The impact of the higher rate of hypertension in these ethnic groups is complicated by the finding that Hispanics and blacks had lower levels of education and annual income and greater difficulty accessing healthcare compared with whites and other ethnic groups.

And also note that this 2001-2002 data. Till now it would be definitely near 50 % inspite of all measures.

Data of Muslim countries you can find from net. Their rate might be high but not due to overweight as is the case in America, but due to miserable condition of Muslims all over the world. Do you know how many innocent Muslims are killed daily?

P:Are you going to stop eating poultry because of bird flu. Are you going to stop eating beef because of mad cow disease both of which have high fatality. At least pigs, despite their poor hygiene, do not pass on such deadly diseases to humans.

M:Bird flu is a disease of poultry but pork itself is a disease.

P:If you are from Pakistan you must have seen chicken gobbling up human excreta. Why is chicken on the menu of Muslims? You state that even pigs bred in hygienic surroundings are unfit for human consumption. Where did you get your facts from. And what exactly is excreta? It is the same hygienic food you have consumed passing through your body with some of its nutrients removed and some chemicals added. It still has a lot of nutrients in it which is why it is a good fertilizer. Pigs (or chicken) eating excreta pass it through their digestive system and extract the remaining nutrients. When you eat pork it is not the original excreta you are eating. You know animal excreta is used extensively as food for plants which you consume. Are you eating animal excreta when you eat plants? Why don't you stop eating fruit, vegetables etc??

M: I told you one reason that why it is forbidden in Islam. At least you will agree that it is the most filthiest animal on earth. There are other reasons too as mentioned above and below. There will be certainly other reasons too those might be unknown to humanity yet due to limited wisdom. I think you should agree on limited wisdom because you can check from history the end of different theories those were consedered right during their time. If you want example i can give to you.

P:Wonderful Islamic science! If you eat pigs you behave like pigs! If you eat chicken you behave like chicken. If you eat beef you behave like cows! I think we should develop a taste for lions and tigers and eagles to become brave and strong like them.

M: Tell me about this. Is it true or false. If it proves to be true (as it is), you should not give these comments.

The pig is the most shameless animal on the face of the earth. It is the only animal that invites its friends to have sex with its mate. In America, most people consume pork. Many times after dance parties, they have swapping of wives; i.e. many say "you sleep with my wife and I will sleep with your wife." If you eat pigs then you behave like pigs.<<

P:Why don't you mention that chicken and cows also mate with their mothers, fathers and children? After eating them do we all develop incestuous feelings.

M: There is no concept of mothers, fathers, daughters etc once they r young. But it is clear that no one spares its mate for friends as pigs do. Animal may fight over its mate. The point is its most shameless and do have effects as ur practical shows.

P: I do enjoy a drink once in a while. I know plenty of unbelievers who never touch alcohol. And I know plenty of believers who drown themselves in alcohol. Go to Bahrain and UAE and you will see Saudis and other Arabs enjoying themselves at the bars. Smoking, drugs also cause havoc why has the Koran not foreseen them?

M: Plato ! thats what i can expect from you. Wat do you think, you do the right thing?? If some believer drinks it does not mean it is lawful in Islam. Islam prohibits every kind of alcohol and other things as you mentioned, especially those that causes unconciousness and forgets one the Allah Almighty.

P: Not just alcohol, but mind altering drugs like lsd, marijuana, heroin also do the same. You can of course claim they are also intoxicants, but you seem to be bothered more about alcohol.

M: Agreed ! they are all prohibited. The reason for mentioning alcohol is that it is the most drunk item. So what now?? What do you say about all these? Should one drink or use these?

>>… According to statistics, 8% of Americans commit incest i.e. one in every twelve to thirteen persons in America is involved in incest. Almost all the cases of incest are due to intoxication of one or both the persons involved.<<

P:You have not quoted any source for claiming that most rapes were alcohol related or for your claim that 8% of Americans commit incest. Do you have any such statistic for incest in Islamic countries. I wouldn't be surprised if the figures are greater in them with women restricted to their homes and males only in contact with close female relatives.

M: See the references below:

1. Recently, the literature about child sexual abuse and incest has proliferated, but incest remains poorly documented because of its severe social stigma. One study of college students that defined incest as "a sexual experience with a family member" found a 28 percent prevalence, with 50 percent of the contact between siblings and 30 percent of the sibling contacts involving force. Another study of randomly selected women found that 16 percent had experienced exploitative incest before the age of 18. The psychiatric sequelae of incest are not well known. To determine the long-term psychiatric effects of incest, Pribor and Dinwiddie conducted a study to determine the prevalence of psychiatric disorders in adult women with a history of incest.

The authors conclude that incest victims not only have a higher incidence of psychiatric disease, but they also have a higher number of psychiatric diagnoses. The authors recommend that a possibility of childhood sexual abuse be discussed with patients who seek therapy, especially those patients with anxiety disorders, alcohol abuse and depression. (American Journal of Psychiatry, January 1992, vol. 149, p. 52.)

COPYRIGHT 1992 American Academy of Family Physicians
COPYRIGHT 2004 Gale Group

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m3225/is_n4_v45/ai_12126984

2. See also below figures. honestly tell me if these figure are possible without unconciousness caused by Alcohol and other drugs. See also from human Rights point of view... the west is proud of that.......

D. Corwin (1990) cites that in London many believed that sexual 'congress' with a child would cure venereal disease. Of capital rape prosecutions between 1730 and 1729, 25% of the cases involved victims younger than 10 years old.

62% of females are sexually abused by age 18. Finkelhor, David and J. Dziuba-Leatherman. "Victimization of Children." American Psychologist Vol. 49:3 (1992): 173-183. 1896 in The Aetiology of Hysteria, Freud discusses his "Seduction Theory" acknowledging the sexual abuse and incest of children.

31% of males are sexually abused by age 18. Ibid.

More than 60 million adult survivors of incest and sexual child abuse live in America. *Note these are only reported cases. It is believed as great as 50% of sexual child abuse is unreported. Forward, 1993

99% of sexual abuse survivors know their perpetrators-80% are abused by family members, 19% are abuse by other trusted adults. CCPA, 1992

Of 50 male sexual abuse survivors, many were as young as 8 years old. FBI Uniform Crime Report, 1991.

96% of female rape survivors were younger than 12 years old and knew their attackers. U.S. Department of Justice, 1992.

A study of 10,000 female children under age 18 raped in 1992, reports that 3,800 girls were under 12 years old. U.S. Justice Department, study conducted in 11 states and the District of Columbia, June 1994.

Of teenage, unwed mothers, 60-67% were incest survivors. Los Angeles Times survey, 1993

96% of teenage prostitutes were sexually molested in childhood. CCPA, 1992. Almost 80% had become prostitutes before age 18. Ibid. *60% of prostitutes were 16 or under; many were younger than 13. Ibid.

Over 80% of the mothers of incest survivors were also sexually abused.

57% of sexual child abuse and incest perpetrators are survivors of sexual child abuse. Goldstein-Harte Study 1973: Carter, et al.

A sexual child abuse perpetrator (a.k.a. sex offender) abuses an average of 117 children. National Institute of Mental Health, 1988.

Extensive evidence substantiates the fact that sexual child abuse has taken place for centuries.

In the U.S. in 2000 over 3 million child abuse and neglect reports were filed and one million were confirmed. There are 3,000 children abused each day and four of them will die. Forty % of these children were under the age of six. The age group with the highest abuse rate is 0-3 years. Nationally the highest form of abuse is neglect followed by physical abuse. In March of 2001 when President Bush declared April National Child Abuse Prevention Month he stated the cost of child abuse and neglect in the U.S. was $258 million dollars a day. This includes the price of intervention, the treatment of children who have been emotionally, physically or sexually abused as well as the indirect costs of the long term consequences both for the child and our society. Prevent Child Abuse America. In 2000, there were 261,000 victims of rape, attempted rape or sexual assault. [2000 National Crime Victimization Survey. Bureau of Justice Statistics.] Of these 261,000, 114,000 were victims of sexual assault, 55,000 were victims of attempted rape, and 92,000 were victims of completed rape. [2000 NCVS.]

An estimated 906,000 children were victims of abuse and neglect in 2003 (cases substantiated by child protective service agencies).1

In 2003, 48.3 percent of child victims were male; 51.7 percent of victims were female. 83.9 percent of victims were abused by a parent. 40.8% of child victims were maltreated by their mothers acting alone; another 18.8 percent were maltreated by their fathers acting alone; 16.9 percent were abused by both parents.1

Types of maltreatment included:1

Neglect (including medical neglect) 61%
Physical Abuse 19%
Sexual Abuse 10% (90,600 children)
Psychological Maltreatment 5%
Medical Maltreatment 2%
Other* 17%

1U.S. Department of Health and Human Services, Administration on Children, Youth and Families, Child Maltreatment 2003 (Washington, DC: U.S. Government Printing Office, 2005). Online summary: http://www.acf.hhs.gov/programs/cb/publications/cm03/index.htm/

Dare to see these.

P:Alcohol is not a disease, alcoholism is a disease. The roulette table is not a disease, the compulsion to gamble is a disease.

M: Agreed ! So Plato! should you leave alcohlism???

P:Alcohol is the snare of Satan? Who created alcohol, Allah or Satan? Did Allah create it so that Satan could use it to snare man? In the first case Satan is also capable of creating things like Allah. In the second case Allah is culpable.

M: Why are you focusing only on Satan??

Tell me what is your view now about Alcoholism? Dont just discuss for discussion.... About Satan and Allah i told you in my earlier reply. yo can learn these once your basics about islam get cleared.

P: Does it mean that you can eat meat over which no name has been invoked? Will you consider eating meat sold in Western countries over which no name has been invoked?

M:No we cant. Actually this is one part shown in this ayat. there are some more criterias for meat to be eatable.

P:You say minimized. How do you minimize pain when you cut an animals throat? It is bound to last a few seconds. If you stun it, it will not feel any pain.

M:The swift cutting of vessels of the neck disconnects the flow of blood to the nerve of the brain responsible for pain<<

>>Blood is a good media of germs, bacteria, toxins, etc. Therefore the Muslim way of slaughtering is more hygienic as most of the blood ontaining germs, bacteria, toxins, etc. that are the cause of several diseases are eliminated.<<

P:Whatever germs or toxins are there in the blood will also be there in the muscles and other tissues and also in the blood vessels as not much blood drains out. The quantity of blood would be about 10% of body weight. Does a cow lose that much weight or even 5% of its weight when slaughtered the Islamic way. How long does it take for the heart to stop beating after the throat is cut? A few seconds, maybe, how much blood can drain out. You are just manufacturing unscientific reasons to justify inflicting pain on animals.

M: Read my statement again it is said more hygienic. It does not mean that no more safety is required. Secondly 1st slaughter an animal then see how much blood drains. We see quite often and rarely can find a drop in the remaining meat.

P: In Africa some tribes (Zulus?)consume blood directly from animals without even cooking and they seem to be very healthy.

M: What do you say?? If it is a wise thing??? If you r convinced enough then why dont you do that???

>>Meat slaughtered by Islamic way remains fresh for a longer time due to deficiency of blood in the meat as compared to other methods of slaughtering.<<

P:Who has conducted any test about this claim? Another manufactured reason for justifying inflicting pain on dumb animals. You not only want to eat them but you also insist on inflicting pain on them.

>> The swift cutting of vessels of the neck disconnects the flow of blood to the nerve of the brain responsible for pain<<

Can you quote any scientific studies to prove this claim? There is no way you prevent pain and terror for a few seconds.

M: Here is your required reference....., i think you should now surrender to Allah. All other signs will also become clear to you.

http://www.halalscience.org/en/knowledge_detail.php?Id=88

I will also show few lines from it.

German Research Studies Pain

It therefore may come as a surprise to those who have made such acclimations to learn of the results of a study carried out by Professor Wilhelm Schulze and his colleague Dr. Hazim at the School of Veterinary Medicine, Hannover University in Germany. The study: ‘Attempts to Objectify Pain and Consciousness in Conventional (captive bolt pistol stunning) and Ritual (halal, knife) Methods of Slaughtering Sheep and Calves' concludes that Islamic slaughtering is the most humane method of slaughter and that captive bolt stunning, practiced in the West, causes severe pain to the animal.

In the study, several electrodes were surgically implanted at various points of the skull of all animals, touching the surface of the brain. The animals were allowed to recover for several weeks. Some animals were then slaughtered by making a swift, deep incision with a sharp knife on the neck cutting the jugular veins and the carotid arteries as well as the trachea and esophagus (Islamic method). Other animals were stunned using a Captive Bolt Pistol (CBP). During the experiment, an electroencephalograph (EEG) and an electrocardiogram (ECG) recorded the condition of the brain and the heart of all animals during the course of slaughter and stunning.

The results were as follows:

I – Islamic Method

1. The first three seconds from the time of Islamic slaughter as recorded on the EEG did not show any change from the graph before slaughter, thus indicating that the animal did not feel any pain during or immediately after the incision.

2. For the following 3 seconds, the EEG recorded a condition of deep sleep - unconsciousness. This is due to the large quantity of blood gushing out from the body.

3. After the above-mentioned 6 seconds, the EEG recorded zero level, showing no feeling of pain at all.

4. As the brain message (EEG) dropped to zero level, the heart was still pounding and the body convulsing vigorously (a reflex action of the spinal cord) driving a maximum amount of blood from the body thus resulting in hygienic meat for the consumer.

II - Western method by C.B.P. Stunning

1. The animals were apparently unconscious soon after stunning.

2. EEG showed severe pain immediately after stunning.

3. The hearts of animals stunned by C.B.P. stopped beating earlier as compared to those of the animals slaughtered according to the Islamic method resulting in the retention of more blood in the meat. This in turn is unhygienic for the consumer.

Western-Style Slaughtering and Mad Cow's Disease

Not only is this method of stunning animals before the slaughter severely painful as shown by the previous experiment, but there is also a rising concern that this method may be a factor in the spread of mad cow's disease from cattle to humans as it was discovered in recent research carried out at Texas A&M University and by Canada's Food Inspection Agency, that a method called pneumatic stunning (which is the firing of a metal bolt into the cow's brain followed by a pulverizing burst of 150 pounds of air pressure) delivered a force so explosive that it scattered brain tissue throughout the animal. This news is disturbing since the brain tissue and spinal cord are the most infectious parts of an animal with mad cow disease, which causes fatal Swiss cheese like holes in the brain of the infected animal. It is more disturbing to find out that around 30 to 40 percent of American cattle are stunned by pneumatic guns.

how many references you need?? I will provide you each one with the hope that you will be convinced....

Waiting for your reply.

Regards

Maqsood

Submitting....

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