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To Shakeel: Bring your proof

Reader comment on item: Bolstering Moderate Muslims
in response to reader comment: To Shakeel: You got me with my forgotten promise to god.

Submitted by Plato (United Arab Emirates), May 26, 2007 at 09:08

To Shakeel: Bring your proof

[I hope you will not repeat the same questions again and again and will read it carefully.]

Shakeel, this is what you wrote at the end of your post. Honestly, have you answered anything, but just repeat what you said before in other words. What I am asking you is 'bring your proof' as the Koran says. For instance when I give you proof that Allah's test is demonstrably biased you just say it is not without any evidence. And that goes for every question I asked. You will, I hope, see as you read further.I have read your post very carefully and hence a long reply, in two parts, which I hope you will also read carefully and there will be no need for another reply from you.

[As I said, earlier, Allah will judge people with their intentions at the Day of Judgment. It does not mean that Muslims's children are lucky and others are unlucky.]

Well let us say the aborigine in the Australian outback goes through the motions of life with very good intentions but the message of the Rasool has not reached them unlike the lucky Muslim children living in Mecca. Will Allah burn the aborigine in hell for not saying the shahada 'loudly with his mouth'?

[The criteria of Allah to judge people is not like ours who can see only actions not the intentions behind them.]

You have been maintaining that Allah already knows the person's intentions before He releases him into the world. It would also mean that He has already judged him. Is it not pretty ridiculous of Allah to pass judgement only after the poor soul has gone through the motions of what He already knew the soul would do? I hope I am getting through to you on how silly your Allah looks if you say He has that kind of power.

[Allah is never biased to anyone. All are His own creatures and no one is superior to Him but the one who has more taqwa.]

If He is not biased why did He wait all that time since Adam to make his message unforgettable and gave it to the Arabs in preference to other people. The messages Allah gave to others, He very well knew beforehand would be lost or corrupted. Is this not bias? All may be His creatures but he has shown special favouritism towards the Rasools. Why does he not treat Rasools like anybody else. Allah is a particularly biased being. First he showed special favouritism towards the Jews, then he dumped them and anointed the Arabs. He also shows special favouritism towards men, claiming to have given women less intelligence and understanding and also made them weaker physically for men to thrash. Fear of Allah's "tawa" may bring about taqwa in weak-minded people but hold no fears for infidels who can see through these Islamic fairy stories.

[O mankind, We have created you from a male and a female, and made you races and tribes, that you may know one another; the noblest among you, in the sight of God, is the one most godfearing of you; God is Knowing, Aware.(49:13)

Why is Allah stating the obvious? Of course He is knowing, aware since He has created us with the intentions about which He is already aware. Allah also seems to have a NEED for people to fear him.

[Yes, Allah could preserve the message, but He preferred to send messengers after messengers, so that they could not only remind the people God's forgotten message but also become role model for them. The practically implemented the God's guidance in their lives and taught the people same by presenting them real life example.]

What kind of a non-answer is that. Allah could but wouldn't. Was he playing a game with humans to gain souls for his fire? Role model? Assassinating critics, allowing slave holding, chopping up people, slitting throats for not repeating the shahada, raiding peaceful caravans among other things. All with Allah's blessings of course.

[Moral story is a moral story regardless of any area and geographical boundaries.]

I don't doubt that. But that was not my query. I asked why Allah gave all his good stuff to the Arabs. The incorruptible Koran, the Kaaba, the moral stories' location, the many other Rasools. Another non-answer.

This was your reply in the last post: "Rasool is very different from me or any other person, because he brings God's judgement on earth which no one can escape. Righteous is rewarded and wrong-doer is punished and the same thing will happen on last Day."

And my post said:" Rasool/Rasools are very different indeed. They, especially the last of the lot, can kill people who do not listen to his teachings, which apparently is a mercy. Teachings where women can be thrashed, where women are considered mentally deficient, where there is no bar on keeping slaves but usury is barred, where adulterers can be stoned to death are all righteous . Rasool brings Allah's judgement to kill, maim, polytheists. That is being righteous. This part of being righteous is special to Islam. The others are more or less common. Polytheists and apostates who were within reach of the Rasool were unfortunate enough to suffer twice the punishment of other polytheists. Once by the righteous prophet and then on Judgement Day. Fortunately planes and other modes were not invented otherwise as insisted by Allah of the Rasool there would have not just slaughter in the land of Arabia but over the globe. (8:67 YUSUFALI: It is not fitting for a prophet that he should have prisoners of war until he hath thoroughly subdued the land. Ye look for the temporal goods of this world; but Allah looketh to the Hereafter: And Allah is Exalted in might, Wise.)"

And this what you say in your reply now:

[At the last Day, God will judge all of us. In order to remind people that Day of Judgment is true, He sent special people called Rasools, God judges people on earth (I mean land here) through Rasool and believers are rewarded and wrong-doers are punished. Rasool does not kill wrong-doers for his own sake, he kills people because he was commanded by God. God is not merciless when He kills people. He is just and His promise is true that He will surely reward righteous and punish wrong-doers.

Like criminals are sent to jail and judge is not considered merciless but just, same is God's action]

So what have you said that is different now??

[Raihana was not prophet's wife and fabricated. Yes, Ayesha's marriage was to establish kinship among Muhammad and Abu-Bakr, it was Abu Bakr who offered his daughter to Muhammad(sws) to get his kinship. If Muhammad (sws) were to seek sexual pleasure, why he would marry Khadija in his young age.]

You consider a blanket denial an answer? Where is your proof? Would you say that this winner of an award from the Saudi Government for the best biography of the Rasool fabricated the story of Rehana? Our award-winning biographer also tells you what was done to the free women of the Banu Quraiza. Women traded for horses? [A fate worse than death would you say? For what? For being Jews?

'Only one woman of the Jews was killed because she had killed a Muslim warrior by flinging a grinding stone upon him. A few elements of the enemy embraced Islam and their lives, wealth and children were spared. As for the spoils of the war, the Prophet [pbuh] divided them, after putting a fifth aside, in accordance with Allâh's injunctions. Three shares went to the horseman and one to the infantry fighter. Women captives were sent to Najd to be bartered with horses and weaponry. For himself, the Prophet [pbuh] selected Rehana bint ‘Amr bin Khanaqah, manumitted and married her in the year 6 Hijri. She died shortly after the farewell pilgrimage and was buried in Al-Baqi‘

[Ibn Hisham 2/245; Talqeeh Fuhum Ahl Al-Athar p.12].' (http://www.masmn.org/documents/Books/Safiur_Rahman_Mubarakpuri/Raheeq_Al_Maktoom/410.htm)

Shakeel, I am afraid you are getting you stories all mixed up. It is time for you to re-read the sira and the hadiths (the ones you can believe in, and how come Allah allowed corrupted stories of his beloved Rasool to float around?). Abu Bakr did not ask to be the Prophet's father-in-law. In fact he was hesitant to give the baby Aisha to him asking how being his brother, in some sort of religious sense, he could marry Aisha. The Prophet brushed the objection aside saying since he was not a blood brother Aisha was halal for him. Read your sira Shakeel. Or maybe the maulvi who told you this story was ashamed of what the Prophet did. As to Khadija, have you heard of gold diggers? The difference in age was more than compensated by Khadija's wealth. Even an ugly old woman can look very sexy to a dirhamless young man if she is covered in gold.

[Prophet's purpose was not to loot people. His mission was to punish the wrong doers and implement God's judgment as a reminder for the last Day of Judgment. Everything is God's, lives, wealth, and property. On last day, God will deprive all the wrong – doers from all the blessings which they had been enjoying in this world and give these blessings to righteous people even if they had none of them in this world. The minor judgment brought by God through the hands of Rasool is not at all different from the greater judgment that is yet to come.]

Again what have you said that is new? In your last post you said it was God's (ie the Rasool's) right to keep 20% of the loot. And here you seem to implyng that since everything belongs to Allah (ie Mohammed) he was actually being generous by giving up 80%. God has given his Rasool permission to play Robin Hood by robbing Paul to pay Peter. You have told us how caravans going on their normal business several nights ride away are wrong-doers deserving of the Rasool's raids to fill his treasury. And thank you for quoting the verse below in another of your posts. It makes clear that Muslims have been given permission by Allah to use zakat to give bribes to entice non-believers into the religion of submision. I was not aware of this one. It goes straight into my collection of collectible verses.

Zakat is only for the poor and the needy, and for those who are ‘amils over it, and for those whose hearts are to be reconciled [to the truth], and for the emancipation of the slaves and for those who have been inflicted with losses and for [spending in] the way of Allah and for the wayfarers.(Q 9:60


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