Response to Mr Kiwi
Submitted by Abuhajira (South Africa), Nov 12, 2007 at 11:17
First of all - the first sentence of 5:32 was plagiarised (slightly different wording) from the Torah - so much of the Quran has many of the pre-Islamic Pagan and Jewish customs which is obvious to anyone who has read the Bible and the Quran.
The Quran itself attest that it is a continuation of the laws which were revealed to Moses, then to Jesus (peace be upon them both). So this lame arguement of plagarism does not have any weight. At many places Quran comfirms what taurah and Injil says and at many places it warns of the corruption within it. All three religions are Abrahamic, so it is not that big a deal that you see similarities. Quran also attests to the fact that the books have been corrupted, but there still remains remenances of truth in them...
As for Islamic scholars with their different interpretations of ambiguous verses such as those in the Koran - which scholar is correct and which scholar is wrong.? If every young Muslim was taught the correct meaning of every verse by such scholars as you mention - would that change the emphasis of the Quran or would your Holy Book still carry the message of Jihad against non-believers? somehow I doubt it, there are some very clear verses advocating
Yes, the book has to be understood in its context and from the right scholars. Islam has provided enough places where defence can be a measure of struggle. If you barge into my house I would also fully excercise my right of defense. However in other cases of verses refering to Jihad, you have to learn it as from the authentic scholars and with all the condition when such a ruling applies. What most westerners mentality tends to do is, pick these verses, put some salsa and tobasco on it.. and voila .. the whole religion is terrorist!
Certainly the average Muslim who straps on a suicide vest has absolutely no understanding of his religion, but is cherry picking the verses that make him a martyr with his due rewards.
Certainly you dont say that, that average muslim is the representative of the Quran , Islam and its message or do you?. Are bush jr. / Clinton / Bush Senior / Hitler / Churchill / Musselini representative of their respective religions?? Christianity is all love, but mr bush has waged war on innocent people.. Medaline Albright called the genocide of innocent Iraqi children in era of Bush Sr. as a justifiable act! Is this the love of christianity.
Mr. Kiwi, the argument goes both ways.. if you cannot accept these to be the rightful representatives of christianity, (and in all honesty I dont... I do have that much decency); I am sure you will also not hold a mutilated version of a suicide bomber as a rightful representation of Islam!
At least the Christians went through their enlightenment and Jewish scholars repudiated their historical and cruel laws
I have enlightened above the enlightenment of the christian world.. The enlightenment you speak of is nothing but shuving the dirt under the carpet. Alcoholism, Adultry, Sodomy, Incest are all at its highest in this enlightened majority christian lands. I do not claim we are free of the viles, but the rate is crushingly low in muslim majority lands.
(stoning was banned by Jews before Mohammed PBUH was born, although ,according to the hadeeth the Prophet reinstated it ) - Muslims still adhere to ancient laws, that although may have made a better social system in the early 600's, have no place in a modern democratic world.
This banning of stoning was still in Talmud in the time of Prophet Muhammed peace be upon him. There are incidents mentioned where rabi's were questioned by Prophet Muhammed peace be upon him and those rabi's tried to hide the wordings in their talmud. On the other hand the banning of the stoning is itself a proof of corruption of talmudic law! No where was a rabi given this divine authority to prohibit that which was a command.
The similar is the case of taking priesthood to the level of law giver. Law giver is only Allah as the Quran tells us. And as the Quran tells us that these are nothing but the additions made by the priests of the respective religions.
Besides, can you name ONE INCIDENCE from the life time of Prophet Muhammed peace be upon him where stoning was carried out against the confession of those involved and them not willing to take this stoning to redeam themselves. Every incidence you will show, I will show you a place where Prophet Muhammed peace be upon him himself tried to save such a punishment. So much that one person came and confessed and Prophet Muhammed peace be upon him said, that you might have just hugged her or kissed her or touched her.. Why? because he peace be upon him also knows the gravity of this punishment.
Just for the information sake, you need 4 witnesses for this punishment to be levied. And these 4 witnesses have to have witnessed the act in such explicitness as though they saw a stick go into a bottle. Which is to say about it being highly unlikeness..
Any corporal punishment is completely taken away should even one doubt comes into the case. That is the law... As long as a doubt remains one cannot be given a death penalty.Perhaps if the political and militarised Medinian verses were removed completely, Islam would be an acceptable and honoured religion and peace would prevail.
And then Islam would remain nothing but what Other religions have become. A gathering of corrupted cusoms which suits the desires of those who wish to mold it. All abrahamic religions were divine, untill they got polluted with this plague of modernism and subsequent addition and abrogations.
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