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To free bee: Vox populi is NOT vox dei!

Reader comment on item: Islamists in the Courtroom
in response to reader comment: Plato- fear God

Submitted by Plato (India), Jun 14, 2007 at 10:14

free bee, you are in inverted commas and you wrote:

---"How can you preach to "abolish the law of Allah"?

This is what I had written: 'The Jews don't stone anyone any more. It is 'pure' Islamic countries that do so. That is why we are 'fighting' with you and not the Jews. And this 'fight' will go on till you accept that stoning is an obnoxious practice and, like Muslim countries had to in regard to slavery they practised, abolish it from their statutes.

This law of Allah, on stoning, has already been all but abolished in most Muslim states, except some outlaw ones. The stoning law is not from the Koran, but it is probably a sunnah of the Prophet. Slave keeping too was the way of the Prophet, as he practiced slavery enthusiastically, receiving slaves as gifts, keeping some as concubines, capturing slaves and selling them for money and arms. If one obnoxious law based on the sunnah of the prophet can be abolished why not another obnoxious one. In this case vox populi is not vox dei.

I am not preaching, I am saying it is necessary to 'abolish the law of Allah' for humans to be free from this phantom being who wants us to be his slaves and submit to his wishes however unethical or immoral they may be. Let me give a few examples.

1).Women are devalued both spiritually and economically by considering her a degree below men, her value as a witness taken to be half that of a man. And on that basis she is given half the inheritance of her brothers, insurance companies give them half what a man is given in some Islamic nations. Based on the Koran Muslim scholars have generated quite a few traditions which show the Prophet at his insulting best towards women. There is the one about a woman not having done enough for her husband even if she sucks the pus out of his nose (Ibn Hanbal, Musnad 3:200 ). Then there is the one which has the Prophet saying " a woman cannot fulfill her obligation towards God unnless she fulfills her obligation towards her husband. If he desires her while she sits on a saddle, she should submit." Ibn Hanbal 4:515. So much for all that verbiage about how Islam honoured women and set them f ree from jahiliya oppression. Here are some verses where the Mighty, the Wise declaims about women:

2:228......And they (women) have rights similar to those (of men) over them in kindness, and men are a degree above them. Allah is Mighty, Wise.

4:34

2.) There is no injunction against slavery. All your apologists have been able to do is claim that slavery was discouraged by telling Muslims that they gain brownie points with Allah for freeing slaves and treating them well. The Koran explicitly bans interest and alcohol. But the inhuman practice of slavery is left untouched. There are no Koranic verses that disapprove of slavery. In fact keeping of slaves is treated as something that is acceptable. For an example of Allah's great wisdom about slavery read: 024.058 YUSUFALI: 'O ye who believe! let those whom your right hands possess, and the (children) among you who have not come of age ask your permission (before they come to your presence), on three occasions: .......: Thus does Allah make clear the Signs to you: for Allah is full of knowledge and wisdom.' Here is Allah accepting slaves in the household as naturally as it accepts children. A very unethical sign from Allah. The wisdom He proudly claims is hardly on display in this ayat .Allah's knowledge of the future is limited as he did not foresee that his followers would be forced by disbelievers in Him to give up the practice of keeping slaves. Despite his much vaunted foresight He could not pre-empt the infidels on slavery.

What about morality? The Koran turns the morality of the day upside down.

1) The incident with Zaynab where Allah allows (forces?) Zaid, the prophet's adopted son to divorce his wife and makes him marry her. This was a shockingly immoral act for the pagans (it is even now for us modern day pagans almost like committing incest). Muslim apologists have the specious excuse that this was to teach mankind that an adopted son's relationship is very different from that of a biological son. Who except a Muslim would believe this devious logic for a patently immoral act.

2) Is it ethical or morally right to slaughter millions of animals year after year to celebrate the near-human sacrifice that took place thousands of years ago?

3) What morality is it that punishes women for lewdness without an equivalent for men. 4:15 As for those of your women who are guilty of lewdness, call to witness four of you against them. And if they testify (to the truth of the allegation) then confine them to the houses until death take them or (until) Allah appoint for them a way (through new legislation)." [We are still waiting for this new legislation. Gabriel seems to have forgotten to whisper it to the Rasool. And now that Allah has painted himself into a corner by ending Rasoolship there is no hope of new legislation]

4) The Prophet waives the iddat period for himself in his haste to marry Safiya, the 17-year-old beautiful girl he had widowed by having her husband tortured and killed for some paltry treasure.

---" How can you ignore HIM who gave you everything?"---

Since I don't believe in HIM, it does not make sense to say I ignore him. Ditto for giving me everything. I am not indebted to HIM for anything. On the vanishingly small chance that HE exists, He is worthy of being ignored considering the mess HE has created in this world and the terror He promises in the next for silly reasons like not repeating the shahada.

---"Do you want to go astray like the former communites of the Prophets and then face humiliation and punishment from God.--"

Looking to the present communities of the ProphetS, I certainly would not want to be like them. Mired in poverty, illiteracy, disease, ruled by despots, warring with each other, beheading people for the greater glory of Allah, blowing up places where Allah is worshipped. I feel safe in communities which have rejected the Prophets. It seems to me that the present communities of the Prophets are the ones who are facing humiliation and punishment. I think I would rather go astray, whatever that means. (free bee, I am curious to know, Islamically what does going astray involve?)

--"Fear only Two: God, and the one who does not fear God. Stay away from the atheists."---

God is a phantom being residing in the minds of people who are searching for some illusory meaning to our purposeless existence. The only phantom I can relate to is of the comic book variety. I have no fear of your particular phantom. Among people, I fear only persons who believe in God. For they can justify anything saying it is the law of God. They can stone me to death for an act of love. They can capture me and make me a slave. They can cut off my hand for stealing an apple even if done in desperation to feed my hungry child. They can behead me for disapproving of the Rasool's behaviour.

No atheist would dream of imposing such DI VINE laws.

Men are in charge of women, because Allah hath made the one of them to excel the other, and because they spend of their property (for the support of women). So good women are the obedient, guarding in secret that which Allah hath guarded. As for those from whom ye fear rebellion, admonish them and banish them to beds apart, and scourge them. [In black and white the Koran says Allah has created women to be inferior to men, worthy of even being thrashed]
Submitting....

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