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To free bee: You have confused me further

Reader comment on item: Islamists in the Courtroom
in response to reader comment: Clearing Plato's confusion

Submitted by Plato (United Arab Emirates), Jun 12, 2007 at 06:29

free bee you are in inverted commas and you wrote:

---"For your clarification this Hadith about Stoning is about a Jewish couple who was stoned BY THE JEWISH PEOPLE Themselves. They were NOT muslims and the people throwing stones were not Muslims"

Free bee let us take a closer look at that hadith:

Where does it say that the Jewish people stoned them? If they were going to inflict punishment why should they go to Mohammed. There were no centralised judicial systems then, the tribes carried out their own punishments.

Here is the hadith again:

1 Malik related to me from Nafi' that 'Abdullah ibn 'Umar said, "The Jews came to the Messenger of Allah, may Allah bless him and grant him peace, and mentioned to him that a man and woman from among them had committed adultery. The Messenger of Allah, may Allah bless him and grant him peace, asked them, 'What do you find in the Torah about stoning?' They said, 'We make their wrong action known and flog them.' 'Abdullah ibn Salam said, 'You have lied! It is stoning for it, so bring the Torah!' They spread it out and one of them placed his hand over the verse of stoning. Then he read what was before and after it. 'Abdullah ibn Salam told him to lift his hand. He lifted his hand and there was the verse of stoning. They said, 'He has spoken the truth, Muhammad. The verse of stoning is in it.' So the Messenger of Allah, may Allah bless him and grant him peace, gave the order and they were stoned."

'Abdullah ibn 'Umar added, "I saw the man leaning over the woman to protect her from the stones."

[In Bukhari and Muslim]

Malik commented, "By 'leaning' he meant throwing himself over her so that the stones fell on him."

1. The Jews come to the Messenger to ask for judgement fully knowing their law.

2. They accept the Rasool as a judge. Why if they were such enemies of the Prophet? (Was it because like the camel taking over the entire tent after it was allowed to put its nose in, the Rasool had assumed power in Medina and had appointed himself ruler, judge, law-giver?)

3.They lie to the Prophet about what is in their Torah. So typical of Jews won't you say. Just as they hid and corrupted parts of the Torah (especially about Mohammed's mission and the parts he disliked).

4. One of them even places his hand over the stoning verse. How stupid can a Jew be. Could he not have just read the verses before and after without indicating for all to see that he was covering up something. And what was the need, the Torah would not have been in Arabic.(Of course the ex-Rabbi would have ratted on him)

5. The punishment for the crime they say is only to make their wrong action known to them and flogging.

6. After the ex-rabbi ratted on his former community the Mercy to mankind pronounces the judgement of stoning. Why did he not leave it to a Jew or the ex-rabbi so he could absolve himself as he did in the Banu Quraiza case.

This story is full of holes. First why did they come to the Mercy to all Mankind knowing fully well that his Allah's law for adultery is the same as theirs, they could have administered it under a Rabbi's ruling. If they wanted to protect the accused, as evidenced by their saying that only a warning and flogging was the law, why did they bring the case to the Mercy of mankind in the first place?

And imagine yourself with the Koran in your hand trying to hide the verse on chopping off a hand and leg on opposite sides to protect a friend from that fiendish law, you think you can get away with it? Not many would be as brave as that truly merciful Jew, willing to risk damnation himslef, trying to protect two lovers from a terrifying death.

Free bee, your attitude to this tells us something about the mindset of Muslims, especially their belief about mercy. The Jews were trying to protect their compatriots for nothing more than consensual sex and that you see as a capital crime. Consensual sex you see as a crime worthy of a mercilessly executed death, since your Merciful Allah and Prophet require it. Mercy, kindness, love all carry meanings to Muslims different from that of infidels.

---"So please go and ask God, why did HE wrote the punishment of Adultery as Stoning. Go ask your Rabbis.

free bee, I did ask God, He seems to be playing dumb and His reply has not reached me yet. Or maybe I got the wrong e-mail id. As to the Rabbis, they seem disinterested nowadays in stoning people having a bit of fun. So I am left with your maulanas and scholars who still want to stone adulterers and do get people stoned in some of your pure Islamic countries. I have asked them and they all seem to think stoning being Allah's decree is a must. Oh, and before I forget, as part of Islamic mercy your maulanas also have raped women stoned to death for a crime committed by a man.

---"Do not blame the Muslims and Prophet Muhammed for your people's crimes."

No I do not need to blame Muslms and Mohammed for other people's crimes. There is such a rich and varied selection of crimes I can choose from the depredations of Muslims and your prophet, there is no such need. Let me give you a small selection of the Prophet's and Muslim crimes. The crimes have been exposed by many posters but they are worth repeating again and again for the edification of both Muslims and potential infidel victims of such crimes.

1. The most horrendous by the Rasool himself is the decapitation of all the Banu Quraiza men, for alleged treachery, and the selling into slavery of all their women and children, except the few who became Muslims and Rehana whom the Prophet chose as a concubine. Even an admiring biographer as Karen Armstrong had to admit that this incident reminded her of the Nazis. A just person would have murdered all the Quraish men and sent their women into slavery, their crime being even worse, as they had waged war against the Prophet and his men. But no, the Quraish were his blood relatives and blood is thicker than water (or at least thicker than Jewish blood)

2. Old men and a nursing mother assassinated by the Prophet's henchmen.

3. Kinana Rabi tortured and killed to get at the Banu Nadir treasury. Allah sent his angel gabriel to warn him that a Banu Nadir man was planning to kill him by dropping a boulder on his head, why did Allah not tell Gabriel to inform the Prophet of the location of the treasure? The Mercy to mankind got only part of that treasure but he sure did get all the land and other valuables including a new Mother of Believers,Safiya, Kinana's widow, and now he and his emigrants did not have to wonder where their next meal would come from. No more need to beg from the Ansars.

4.The prophet telling his followers to kill any Jew who came to hand and one of them, Sunaina, killing the Jewish hand that had fed him. I can go on, but chew on these for the moment.

---"What about his devoted followers?---

1. The rightly-guided Khalifa ,Abu Bakr , started off the killings after the Prophet with his ridda wars against apostacy making a joke of the verse about there being no compulsion in religion.

2. The bloodthirsty Sword of Islam Khalid bin Walid, presaging many other swords of islam like Ghori, the early Ottoman Sultans and Gazhni. How do you live down the crimes these swords of Islam committed. Easy. Just point your own bloodied finger at the Christian crimes of the inquisition, genocide of American Indians or Hitler. That pointing finger does look a shade less crimson now doesn't it???

3. Taimur, another pretender to the title Sword of Islam, leaving hillocks made of human skulls.

Just recounting these crimes makes me reach for my anti-depressant tablets.

Submitting....

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