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Free bee snap out of your self-created 'museebas'

Reader comment on item: Islamists in the Courtroom
in response to reader comment: If I were the Khalifa of the Muslims....

Submitted by Plato (India), Jun 16, 2007 at 03:29

free bee you are in inverted commas and you wrote:

---"Believe me the truth is that you are NOT reading all the Hadith of the Prophet (s) which show his generosity, compassion and love for the humanbeings. I don't know why do you want to fill yourself with hatered and depression."---

free bee, you very well know, no one who has to live a life can read, let alone study and think about all the hadiths. There are too many and out of the many a good number are fabricated. But what you really seem to be suggesting here is that one should read the hadiths that show compassion and love for human beings. There are plenty of them I admit. But what should one do about the ones that talk about the extreme cruelty the Prophet indulged in quite often against those he saw as his enemies? free bee consider the fact that there is no call for admiring biographers and transmitters of traditions to mention cruelties unless they really happened unlike love and compassion which they tend to exagerate.

I notice that as usual you have quoted some hadiths without telling us the source or whether they are of the shahi variety or unreliable ones.

The first hadit you have quoted shows the Prophet weeping for a dead jew because he could not save him from hell fire. You have not given the reason he was going to hell. Was it merely because he remained a Jew despite his preaching? How could the Prophet know, as punishment or reward is by the grace of Allah as the Koran insists. The Prophet could not have known the mind of Allah. This hadit is a blasphemous one.

I can quote for you several hadiths from the shahi ones that reveal the cruel side of this person who wanted to be known as a mercy to all mankind. Here is one from Bukhari: Volume 4 Number 261 This one I have quoted does not tell us if the Prophet wept. He should have because the needs of justice could not save those killers from a cruel death. Is the mutilation and torture of the killers the Prophet imposed a sign of mercy?.

'Eight men of the tribe of 'Ukil came to the Prophet and then they found the climate of Medina unsuitable for them. So, they said, 'O Allah's Apostle! Provide us with some milk.' Allah's Apostle said, 'I recommend that you should join the herd of camels.' So they went and drank the urine and the milk of the camels (as a medicine) till they became healthy and fat. Then they killed the shepherd and drove away the camels, and they became unbelievers after they were Muslims . When the Prophet was informed by a shouter for help, he sent some men in their pursuit, and before the sun rose high, they were brought, and he had their hands and feet cut off. Then he ordered for nails which were heated and passed over their eyes, and whey were left in the Harra (i.e. rocky land in Medina). They asked for water, and nobody provided them with water till they died.'

I have already mentioned in a previous post how Kinana Al Rabi, a Jew was tortured and killed to locate the Banu Nadir's treasure. Allah would have sent him to hell in the next world for being a Jew but why did the Prophet treat him so cruelly in this world? What kind of person do you think would do such a thing?

The second hadith is about the Jewish boy becoming a Muslim at the urging of the Prophet. What is it telling us? What is the big deal? The Prophet preached for 13 years in Mecca and had very little to show for it in converts. An impressionable young boy being converted due to the threats of hell fire and the bribes of heaven is such a big deal?

Here is an incident related in Ibn Ishaq's sira (translation of Ibn Ishaq's Life of Muhammad by Alfred Guillaume, Page 308) that illustrates his concern for children":...When he was in 'Irqu l-Zayba 'Uqba was killed. He had been captured by Abdullah b. Salima, one of the B.al-Ajlan. When the apostle ordered him to be killed 'Uqba said, 'But who will look after my children, O Muhammad?' 'Hell', he said, and Asim b. Thabit b. Abu' l-Aqlah al-Ansari killed him......" Will you weep for those innocent orphans condemned by your merciful Prophet to hell, like the Prophet did for the dead Jew, free bee? I would.

You gave a hadith about the Prophet's concern for a young boy's faith but here is an incident where the apostle callously consigns children to hell for their father's sins. I will appreciate your comment on this incident, free bee.

Your story of the Prophet helping an old Jewish lady and her conversion only tells me that the Jewish lady's faith in her religion was pretty weak. Again what is the big deal you are making of helping out an old lady. Remember what he did to another lady, a nursing mother of many children, the poet Asma Bint Marwan? He had her cruelly assassinated. And where did his concern for innocent children disappear?

Read what he did to the women of Khaibar. They were distributed among the Muslims (translation of Ibn Hisham's Life of Muhammad by Alfred Guillaume, Page 511). Why did the Prophet not show any mercy towards all those Jewish women?

I notice that you have picked up hadiths where the Prophet weeps for a Jew or helps another or manages to convert them. All Jews. What is the special message you are trying to convey. Is it due to guilt you feel at how the Prophet treated the Jews of Medina, or because of the abuse that is heaped on them in the Koran?

---"All the pious Khalifas of the Muslims dealt fairly with the Dhimmis (Jews and Christians) and the History books are full of stories of Salah ud Din Ayoobi and others who were fair to the Jews in Palestine.---"

Did you read the Pact of Omar. You consider the conditions imposed fair? Would you consider it fair if the infidel government you live under said you cannot repair your mosques nor build new ones? Would you consider it fair if like the Taliban recently your kafir government forced you to wear a green sash around your waist to indicate you are a Muslim? Also remember, free bee, treating the dhimmis fairly would be against what the Koran itself instructs.They had to be made to pay the humiliation tax jiziya. They cannot be befriended.

"---I could to on and on Plato.... But the story of Banu Quraizah and Banu Nadhir are the war time stories. And it was as decree from God which was fulfilled. Similar stories are written in Bible and Tanakh about previous Prophets who went to war against the enemies of God.---"

I could go on too about the 'fairness' of Muslims towards polytheists. So what if the Banu Quraiza and Banu Nadir are war time stories. The Nazi story, the Taimur story, the Gazhni story, the Ghori story are all war-time stories. The Jews killing and driving out the Palestinians from Palestine/Israel is also a war time story. So why don't you dismiss them too as of no relevance as you do the Banu Quraiza massacre. Remember the Jews can show you decrees from their god (who is also your god) which gave them rights over Palestine, so who are we to dispute with God.

You claim there was a decree from God to put an end to entire Jewish tribes. Show us those decrees free bee. Where is it or who has hidden them until this day? If the bible and tanak has similar stories condemn them also rather than use them as shields to soften the impact of the genocide of the Jews of Medina.

"---You should also remember that on the day of the conquest of Makkah, the Prophet (s) forgave EVERONE who had waged a war against the Prophet (s) and Islam for 13 years---".

Your merciful Prophet DID NOT FORGIVE EVERYONE. He had a hit list of about 25 people to be murdered, including a former scribe of his and some singing girls who had lampooned him in song. Free bee the Meccans had not waged war against the Prophet. Either some ignorant mullah has fed you that nonsense or you are deliberately misleading the readers of your post. The Prophet for 13 years abused the Meccans' sacred symbols and beliefs. He was well-protected during most of this period by his pagan relatives, he having no compunction in taking such protection. After he emigrated to Madina without any provocation from the Meccans he started harassing their trade routes killing and looting their goods in the process. And you have the gall to claim that the Meccans waged war aganinst the Prophet. Prove me wrong free bee. Prove me wrong!

"---Finally, the punishment of Zina (adultery) is stoning to death, in all 3 religions. But remember Allah has made it very very hard to prove it. For example you need 3 witnesses to prove it otherwise you must let them go. And tell me which fool will commint Zina in front of 3 people?---"

There are many other religions which do not have such a barbaric law, so are these 3 religions not wrong? free bee, you are wrong again about Allah making it hard to prove Zina. In fact he has made it very easy. The moment a raped/unmarried woman shows signs of pregnancy it is proof of Zina. Malik Ibn Anas (Al Muwatta) said, "The position with us about a woman who is found to be pregnant and has no husband and she says, 'I was forced,' or she says, 'I was married,' is that it is not accepted from her and the hadd is inflicted on her unless she has clear evidence of what she claims about the marriage or being forced or if she comes bleeding if she was a virgin or she calls out for help so that someone comes to her and she is in that state or what resembles of it of the situation in which the violation occurred." He said, "If she does not produce any of those, the hadd is inflicted on her and whatever such claims she makes are not accepted from her." [http://bewley.virtualave.net/muw16.html#hudud ]

You ask which fool will commit zina in front of 3 people. Exactly. Which fool. Only a real fool. Intelligent ones take helpless women and rape them away from the prying eyes of witnesses. But if there are no witnesses the men go free (and rape more women) and if the woman gets pregnant she is lashed or stoned. Glorious Allah-given sharia

"---Recently in a very controversial case, a Shariaa Judge in Pakistan set two people FREE because the prosecution could NOT bring 3 witnesses. So the President Mushraff stepped in and told the Judge to Accept the DNA results. But the Judge Did Not. He told the court that "Quran instructs us to have 3 witnesses and thats what I will accept- period" The scholars of Pakistan praised the Judge and the pair was set free.---"

How wise the scholars and sharia judges of Pakistan are! This means that if a man rapes a woman and makes her pregnant away from the eyes of three witnesses, even if science has irrefutable proof that he is the father of the child, the man will still be left to roam around and rape more women as in Allah's glorious wisdom he is not a rapist. The 'hadd' is imposed on the woman. The rapist's DNA only miraculously appeared in the child, a kind of immaculate conception!

"---I would like to add here that those who Kill their Daughters in the name of "honor Killing" are Pure Idiots and may even end up in Hell for Killing a person without 3 witnesses. They are Big sinners in my eyes and the eyes of the Ulemas (scholars).---"

Idiots? Is that what you think they are? You are trying to plead innocence on their behalf, like claiming insanity in a court of law. You know what the Koran prescribes for 'lewdness'? 4:15 As for those of your women who are guilty of lewdness, call to witness four of you against them. And if they testify (to the truth of the allegation) then confine them to the houses until death take them or (until) Allah appoint for them a way (through new legislation)

The Muslims who kill their daughters are just being economical. Instead of taking up the burden of confining them to the house till death they are just speeding up the process. Since these people kill their daughters without three people standing around and watching they are not punished, no amount of circumstantial evidence withstanding. Sharia law at its best. When a hungry urchin steals an apple he has his hands chopped off. How many witnesses does it require to convict a thief?

"---The biggest museeba (problem) is when people do not know FULL religion and only know part of it.---"

Not knowing FULL religion is indeed a museeba. What with the museeba of earning a living, not knowing Koranic Arabic and figuring out which of the competing tafsirs has go it right, Muslims really have got it tough. Allah tells them that he has made it an easy religion to follow by making the Koran easy to understand but unfortunately your scholars with all their tafsirs have muddied the waters and Muslims are left bewildered by the Sunni-Shia schism, the various jurisprudents pulling in all directions, the Salafis, the Deobandis, the ahle kitabis and so on.

Why did Allah declare in: 054.017 (repeated in 054.022, 032, 040)YUSUFALI: And We have indeed made the Qur'an easy to understand and remember: then is there any that will receive admonition?

When Allah himself has made Islam easy to understand how can you complain about the museeba of not knowing the FULL religion? Are you doubting Allah's words, free bee? Tauba, tauba.

Plato

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