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authentic islam v modern Islam spin

Reader comment on item: How Terrorism Obstructs Radical Islam
in response to reader comment: islam is a peaceful religion

Submitted by leigh thomson (New Zealand), Jan 4, 2006 at 01:06

It is essential to understand that the Wahhabi extremist ideology(which bin laden and other terrorists espouse whether=r tacitly or openly) is quite consistent with authentic Islam. However unpalatable it may be the fact is modern Islam does not represent authentic Islam.

Modern Islam is simply a response to the reality that a religion that calls for the demise, if necessary by force, of alternative religions can' t survive the legitimate human rights of non-believers. The United Nations at least can attempt to maintain this protection for non believers. The key point here to note that Islamic countries do not accept the UN Charter of human rights, but would only accept a charter that was not inconstant with sharia (Islamic) law.

Muslims often cites a single verse from the Koran to claim that Islam "tolerates" other religions (said to be in contrast to the Wahhabbi ideology) but ignores the context of that verse and the contradictory pattern that emerges from the later (Medinan) revelations of the Koran.

Thus the Koranic verse must be placed in proper context. It was "revealed" during a period when Mohammad was politically weak in Mecca and at the time was a minority group (unremarkably for minority groups) "tolerant" of others. This changed later when he gained power both politically and militarily, and had been unable to persuade the Jews he was a prophet.
The following verses are representative of the exhortations in the later Median surahs. The doctrine of abrogation invented to explain the contradictions with earlier verses means that the apparentl\y tolerant verse quoted is overruled by the later verses. More important historically the later verses reflect accurately the context of violence and subjugation by Mohammad that is portrayed as an inherent part of Allah's objective. This is clearly taken from the context of early Islam as recorded by early Islamic authors such Ishaq in his Life of Mohammad.

The following verses indicate that modern Islam does not represent authentic Islam: Note they are chronically near the end of the Medina period. The numbers are simply the numerical order of the original compilation of the Koran

Invite not the infidels to peace when you have the upper hand (surah 11)
He (Allah) will make it (Islam) victorious over other religions(s 61)
Take not infidels for friends other than believers, would ye furnish God with a clear right to punish you (s4)
Take not infidels for friends showing them kindness; If you do you have gone astray from the even way (s 60)
Only the faithful (Muslims) are brethren- make peace between your brethren (s 49)
Don't take Christians or Jews as friends, if you do God won't guide you and you are evildoers. (s5)
Believers. Wage war against such of your neighbours as are infidels and let them find you rigorous. (s93)

The best kept secret of the modern world and of Islam is that the Wahabbi approach is perfectly consistent with how Mohammad practised and developed Islam. He was tolerant when the community was weak in Mecca, and violent when he and the community subsequently became strong in Medina.
Fledgling Muslim communities in Western countries as minorities (as in Mecca when Mohammad first claimed revelations from Gabriel) accordingly are peaceable. As they grow they challenge existing secular laws and seek privileges and exemptions designed to introduce elements of sharia law.
They may well claim to be tolerant of other religions, but see Islam as a complete system that will dominate and overcome other religions politically as well as religiously. Although they then say other religions are adequately protected under sharia law the "protection" is oppressive and curtails freedoms. The public demonstration of alternative religions is suppressed. Conversion of Muslims to another religion is usually a crime as is criticism of Islam or its prophet Mohammad and also raises the risk of injury or death by defenders of Islam.

This is consistent with Mohammad's teaching about the fate of apostates and with the violence towards those who dared to criticise or mock Islam and Mohammad. Poets were murdered at the bequest of Mohammad. The refuge of the holy kaba (when Muhammad conquered Mecca, after his exile to Medina from Mecca) was denied to apostates and opponents whom Mohammad wanted killed.
The claim about Christians being violent presupposes they acted with the support of their role models. The role models for Christians are Jesus and the teachings of the New Testament. These so not support forceful conversion or state sanctioned vilence against other faiths. So the Crusaders were either sincere and mislead by their leaders, or were simply hypocrites.The Koran and Moahmmad support violence in the name of their religion.. It's that simple. At least Mohammad was embarrassed when his worse henchman Khalid killed non believers (after being sent out by Mohammad following the conquering of Mecca).But it didnt stop the violence.

Authentic Islam then is the underlying problem. This is because modern Islam is based on selected parts of the Koran that are taken out of context (a) with the actual pattern of teachings in the later revelations that make up the Koran and (b) the historical actions of and teachings of Mohammad.
So Islam needs to be reformed, but how do you reform the claimed "word" of God?

Ultimately, as the Muslim presence in Europe grows ever stronger by demographic means the chickens will come home to roost for future generations, as the Medinan modus operandi of authentic Islam flexes its intolerant muscles.
Submitting....

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Reader comments (115) on this item

Title Commenter Date Thread
Islamic Integration [49 words]Mark KasboSep 15, 2011 13:17189340
No excuse and no tolorance for terrorists [77 words]Ron ProfittJul 5, 2007 10:22103029
How Terrorism Obstructs Radical Islam [93 words]IfrahimJan 1, 2009 16:22103029
1violence is the choice of muslims [114 words]Phil GreendMay 27, 2007 16:3594951
2islam is a peaceful religion [429 words]muslimNov 15, 2005 21:5328449
1Reply to comment by Mr. 'Muslim' [231 words]John GiannascaNov 20, 2005 22:4228449
5Mr Muslim please answer: The fact of violence in muslim countries [494 words]olieJan 3, 2006 16:0828449
3authentic islam v modern Islam spin [896 words]leigh thomsonJan 4, 2006 01:0628449
Islam is a religion? [413 words]John BastileJan 4, 2006 09:0428449
the islamic crusade againt mecca [498 words]leigh thomsonJan 5, 2006 16:4028449
Thanks, Leigh Thomson [365 words]John BastileJan 8, 2006 06:3428449
John Giannasca, I hope I can correct you [279 words]John BastileJan 8, 2006 21:0828449
Reply to comments by muslim [317 words]Dhimmi no moreJan 9, 2006 07:1328449
The Real Truth May God teach YOu [556 words]CharlesFeb 1, 2006 18:4928449
Islam is Peaceful?? [8 words]JustinMar 26, 2006 06:1828449
religion is respected [251 words]personOct 20, 2006 14:2328449
ISLAM- THE SO CALLED PEACEFUL RELIGION [98 words]TOMMY BELNov 5, 2006 19:4928449
The Crusades [25 words]Neil KiernanDec 10, 2006 16:5928449
1response to John Bastile on "is Islam a religion?" [210 words]nevFeb 3, 2007 14:3328449
According to Vic, If Murder Helps the Islamic cause then... [313 words]Kashif SaleemFeb 10, 2007 15:3428449
1just a few quotes [94 words]dasgsadgsadApr 15, 2007 19:1228449
1muslims have no respect [220 words]phil GreendMay 20, 2007 23:3228449
1NOT EVEN TRUE!! [139 words]rukayaAug 28, 2007 21:1828449
1God will have the last word. [276 words]Jason GoldingSep 7, 2007 15:2328449
1muslims, you live and let others live peacefully as well, do not try to convert [148 words]KamalSep 28, 2007 14:4928449
2Muslim Identity in the West [244 words]HansOct 11, 2007 13:1328449
1Back to Nev: Islam is what Islam does [123 words]John BastilleDec 1, 2008 03:4228449
1Nothingness [263 words]DanielSep 15, 2009 22:1328449
problemas que o terrorismo causa nas sociedades [13 words]QuimNov 8, 2005 10:0827955
dhimmitude questions [185 words]freaked-outSep 23, 2005 12:1726214
Non-violent Muslims give tacit & moral support to Jihadists [286 words]Faqi HussainSep 4, 2005 02:3425464
Thanks to Faqi Hussain [62 words]John GiannascaOct 27, 2005 23:0525464
How Terrorism Obstructs Radical Islam Art. No. 2888 [56 words]S.C.PandaSep 3, 2005 03:0525440
Terrorism obstructs radical Islam [287 words]Jacques BakkeAug 31, 2005 17:2125293
Daily Terrorism Update--Asia: Tuesday, August 30, 2005 [206 words]orange yonasonAug 30, 2005 13:4725215
Radical Muslims Have Reason to Gloat! [151 words]John Randall PeacherAug 29, 2005 18:0325182
Radical Islam is a no-no, but moderate Islam.... [19 words]
w/response from Daniel Pipes
Wayne WagnerAug 28, 2005 21:3225156
twin aspects of Islam [404 words]nick wrightAug 28, 2005 02:1625148
Good Cop, Bad Cop [62 words]james knightsAug 26, 2005 21:4725137
Back to the article! [99 words]J.S.Aug 26, 2005 18:1725134
Iraqi Constitutional pre "Amble" [91 words]donevanAug 26, 2005 16:4425130
More on preamble to Iraqi Consitution [95 words]BorisAug 26, 2005 17:2725130
Beautiful Canadistan [43 words]YovenAug 26, 2005 16:3625129
My 2 Cents [76 words]I R WarriorApr 19, 2006 21:4725129
Possible Implications [259 words]David AroninAug 26, 2005 16:3125128
Islam as a Religion [214 words]TahirAug 26, 2005 14:3725127
1Islamism is the scourge of civilized world [477 words]shridhar upadhyayaAug 25, 2005 19:3125113
who needs approval to fight terrorism [158 words]KarlNov 30, 2008 13:3325113
Road to Hell [71 words]Raphael PintoAug 25, 2005 16:4425105
I disagree with all of you!!! [510 words]SULTANAug 25, 2005 14:2125102
Response to SULTAN, August 25, 2005 at 14:21 [105 words]WallaceAug 25, 2005 15:1225102
Response to Sultan [221 words]WalterAug 25, 2005 16:4025102
Mr. Sultan's true general statement [230 words]DavidAug 25, 2005 17:1025102
David has made an excellent point [204 words]BorisAug 25, 2005 19:2925102
Response to Sultan Re: Rape [181 words]DaisyAug 25, 2005 22:0825102
5To Sultan: Rape Uncommon in Muslim Countries [303 words]Walter ManchurAug 26, 2005 01:0525102
Rape and Violence in Quran, Response to Sultan [266 words]A. AhmedAug 30, 2005 12:1425102
Response to Mr Ahmed [579 words]SULTANAug 31, 2005 15:2925102
Reply to Mr. Sultan & a few comments [655 words]Faqi HussainSep 1, 2005 15:1625102
Response to Sultan [272 words]A. AhmedSep 6, 2005 16:4025102
Responce to SULTAN [112 words]John GiannascaOct 27, 2005 23:1825102
islam will be thought of poorly until it changes [62 words]Phil GreendJun 2, 2007 07:2625102
Radical Islam is Inherently Self-Destructive [139 words]AlexAug 25, 2005 12:3025100
Threat to capitalism [66 words]Hari IyerAug 25, 2005 00:5625089
Terrorism Obstructs Radical Islam [116 words]WalterAug 24, 2005 23:3925087
Response to Walter [122 words]Paul RinderleAug 25, 2005 08:1825087
Spread of Islam is their goal [171 words]F. ShawkiAug 24, 2005 22:2425084
You describe two sides of the same coin [324 words]DavidAug 24, 2005 21:2925082
Terrorism blinds westerners [293 words]Theron GlennAug 24, 2005 21:0325081
Those who may face deportation [1 words]sophieAug 24, 2005 20:3825080
Al Qaeda Enlightenment [242 words]Paul RinderleAug 24, 2005 20:1125079
Good Cop Bad Cop [212 words]DaisyAug 24, 2005 18:2825074
Conjoin Twins [237 words]YovenAug 24, 2005 16:1125072
How Terrorism Obstructs Radical Islam [24 words]YovenAug 24, 2005 15:1125063
End of Islamism? [142 words]
w/response from Daniel Pipes
Victor PurintonAug 24, 2005 10:1425051
Radical Islam has been defeated. [47 words]Jan VinkAug 24, 2005 09:0225049
Terrorism obstructs Radical Islam [227 words]DvoraAug 24, 2005 07:3925045
Terrorism is reality of Islam [460 words]Amitabh TripathiAug 24, 2005 02:2525038
Do you know islam [52 words]zahir a.kaderFeb 10, 2007 06:5325038
I HAVE STUDIED THE HOLY QURAN [26 words]DAMSONMar 29, 2009 01:0725038
It is Ur misconception. u see......... [440 words]Danish KhanMay 10, 2009 02:5325038
The Cat Is Out Of The Bag On Radical Islam [197 words]YAug 23, 2005 23:1225035
Not So Sure Terrorism Obstructs Political Radical islam [709 words]Ron ThompsonAug 23, 2005 22:4725033
Time Magazine quoted Al-Qaeda [50 words]
w/response from Daniel Pipes
John AlgeeAug 23, 2005 22:3025031
What about the third wing? [30 words]
w/response from Daniel Pipes
HAAug 23, 2005 21:0025028
By each according to his ability [336 words]Darwin BarrettAug 23, 2005 20:0325026
Bad Terrorist, Good Terrorist And The Plague [301 words]
w/response from Daniel Pipes
orange yonasonAug 23, 2005 19:5725025
Why the insurgency in Iraq? [80 words]
w/response from Daniel Pipes
Jack VoelkelAug 23, 2005 18:4025021
Thank God for terrorists and radical islam [41 words]George AustinAug 23, 2005 18:3025019
Which hat do you want? [36 words]Yehoshua ZellerAug 23, 2005 18:0825018
"Good cop - bad cop" [132 words]Not a dhimmiAug 23, 2005 18:0425017
No, a "boiled frog" will jump [192 words]Sean H.Aug 23, 2005 17:1425016
Does Terrorism Galvanize the West against Islam? [364 words]J.S.Aug 23, 2005 17:0125015
to, J.S. -- weak and erratic 'galvanic-response' [370 words]orange yonasonAug 23, 2005 22:0825015
Practical or Religious Purpose? [72 words]Jason PappasAug 23, 2005 16:4225013
The two wings of Islamism [186 words]Donald W. BalesAug 23, 2005 16:4125012
As the SecDef would say ... [260 words]J. Keen HollandAug 23, 2005 16:0925010
RE: How Terrorism Obstructs Radical Islam [44 words]Brian AndersonAug 23, 2005 15:2225009
Warned! [29 words]tonymixanAug 23, 2005 14:3725007
HotHeads [41 words]JaneAug 23, 2005 14:3125006
Violence is an integral component of Islam [463 words]Kenneth S. BesigAug 23, 2005 13:5725005
sadly this is the truth [101 words]brunoAug 23, 2005 13:4825004
Terrorism helps Islam [298 words]Steve KleinAug 23, 2005 13:4225002
Some questions? [351 words]
w/response from Daniel Pipes
SULTANAug 23, 2005 13:3025001
Terrorism and islam, Response to Sultan [589 words]Nazia KhanAug 24, 2005 14:1025001
Politics by other means [197 words]PatAug 23, 2005 13:1825000
"RADICAL" ISLAM [114 words]DONEVANAug 23, 2005 12:5324999
The non-violent followers of Islam accept the benefits of the violence [96 words]WAug 23, 2005 12:2324997
Terrorism works [39 words]Gamaliel IsaacAug 23, 2005 12:0324994
Violence and Islam [53 words]LanceAug 23, 2005 12:0224993
Murder DOES help the Islamic cause [141 words]Vic RosenthalAug 23, 2005 11:5724992
Dhimmitude [181 words]Sunny ChongAug 23, 2005 11:5324991
Response to Sunny Chong Aug 23 [320 words]m josephAug 28, 2005 13:2124991
Part of the same package [134 words]David W. LincolnAug 23, 2005 11:5124990
radical Islam has two distinct wings [46 words]John EdwardsAug 23, 2005 11:3624989

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