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More drivel from Debanjan

Reader comment on item: L'Institut d'Égypte – In Memoriam
in response to reader comment: Dear Mr. Shishir

Submitted by Shishir (United Arab Emirates), Jan 19, 2012 at 12:54

Debanjan:I have done some research on Mossadegh and request you to read Steven Pinker's two books i.e. "Downfall" and "All the Shah's men" to understand the personality of Mossadegh. Mossadegh's only fault was that he wanted his poor people to get a fair share of revenue from Iranian oil , the same revenues which were stolen from them by the thugs from the Anglo-Iranian oil company (now known to posterity as British Petroleum).

Shishir:You will forgive me if I dont take the word of a communist sympathizer like Steven Pinker at his word.As for the Anglo Iranian oil company which you claimed "looted" Iranian peasants,I would like to remind you that the surveying,discovery,drilling and rigs and other infrastructure were done overwhelmingly by the British and this was at the invitation of Iranians.Is it possible that the Iranians may have gotten an unfair deal-possibly but Britian had protected Iran from Soviet aggression.How much do you THEY would recompensate the Iranian peoles for the oil?

Debanjan:On the question of whether Mossadegh was a Soviet Sympathizer I would like to give few examples to prove you are not only wrong but laughable.1. When the British had embargoed the Iranians after the nationalization of their oil industry so that they were not able to sell Iranian oil to the World , thereby financially choking Iran (much of what the US is seemingly doing now) , what Mossadegh needed to do was just make a phone call to Comrade Stalin across the border telling him that he and the Muslim people in Iran needs Soviet protection and Soviet ships would be queuing up in the port areas around Abadan to purchase Iranian oil. The KGB would be busy rounding up the Western sympathizers who were trying to overthrow the Mossadegh regime and hanging them. In that way Mossadegh could easily have prevented his downfall. But you know what , he did nothing as he was a proud Iranian Muslim to lease the sovereignity of his proud Islamic nation to that of an Atheist Soviet Union.

Shishir: Your take on the Soviet and Stalin is what is truly laughable! You think that with just one phone call to Stalin as you put it,the Soviets would send in the cavalry?Even if he wanted to(which you claim is the reason that he hadnt) ,that wouldnt happen!There was very little to be "proud" of re Irans Islamic heritage.Most city dwellers were non observant.For most of the past 1000 years Iran had been ruled by foreigners either Arabs,Mongols or Turk.As for Iranian nationalism, not just Shah Pehlavi but Iranian society in general wanted to take the Ataturk approach and Europeanize (which is one of the reasons they canged the country's name to Iran-a cognate of Aryano aka Aryan)

Debanjan:2. Whenever Mossadegh wanted to stress upon something in the Iranain parliament , he would take out a copy of Quran from his pocket and swore upon it. Hardly the behavior of a Soviet sympathizer in the 1950-s right ?

Shishir:Your naivete is laughable.Just because something swears on the Quran why does that preclude him from being a Soviet sympathizer?

Debanjan:Think about this. During the rule of the Ottoman empire , Greeks , Armaneians , Maronites , Jews , Sunnis , Shites , Druzes , Alawites all lived togther as long as no one single nationality wanted to impsoe itself over the rest.

Shishir: Ah but one nationality did impose itself over others:Ottoman Turk.Debanjan you are a joke a minute,what is point of providing half baked information if you cant transform it into knowledge?Obviously to do so you need common sense which you desperately lack!

Debanjan: Language-based nationalism did bring about the nation states in the West but empires with plenty of economic prosperity also helped to bring disparate peoples in the British Isles or elsewhere in Europe to come together under the guise of "nation-state". Without that glue , it is no wonder that these states are falling.Same is true for the Arab world. The Arab seculars never managed to provide sufficient economic upliftment to the masses as a result their states are crumbling.

Shishir: Not only are you historically ignorant but also you are utterly oblivious of contemporary developments!The current dismal economy in the EU is NOT due to the lack of empire but due to collapse of socialist entitlements coupled with easy credit based on phantom money which fuelled real estate bubbles.Also what "empires" did Poland,Czech,Slovakia,Romania,Bulgaria,Greece and Ireland did enjoy?!Even former empires like Spain and Portugal were already hasbeens by the 18th century whose ill begotten gold from the American natives led to inflation and wasteful wars against the English and others leaving them virtually destitute!Even Britain granted independence to India because after WWII, possessing India was costing the British rather than enriching.The British economy was very nearly devastated due to war rationing and Nazi bombings and that is BEFORE the Normandy invasion.

Arab secular rulers like Gaddhafi,Saddam,Hosni et al hoarded their nations wealth and stored it away.Hardly any Arab country used the honored Western traditions of thrift,punctuality,work ethic,investment,risk,entrepreneurship,freedom of speech,freedom of religion,low taxationrespect for rule of law rather than fear of despot,intellectual property,minimal beureacracy and red tape among others.Virtually no Middle Eastern country has these things except-you guessed it -Israel.And Im sure you will make the lame argument that U.S funds Israel to the tunes of billions of $.True but so what.It even funds Egypt and Jordan-where is their miracle economy? Furthermore I as well as many conservative Americans and Zionists(including the late Meir Kahane) are against this aid to Israel as it enables political corruption with Israel.

Debanjan:For example , the four states in the Levant i,.e, Israel , Syria , Lebanon and Jordan (as well as the Palestinians from the West Bank and Gaza) , to my mind are created from the Western-backed ideologies and henceforth none of them can be stable or prosperous in the long run.

Shishir:I dont care too much what those states are "to your mind" as I dont think too highly of your mind.Actually present day Jordan is occupied a Bedouin family from the Hejaz.Syria and Lebanon are a witches cauldron of various ethnicities.With or without "Western" backed ideologies they will remain incohesive basketcases.Israel-the most Western of all these nations actually is doing very well, the only threats it faces is from the less Western failed nation states.So your argument has the same strength and resilience as the Greek economy.

Debanjan:I would like to call that state as "Abrahamia" where all the different peoples from different faiths i.e. Jews , Muslims , Christians can live and work together.

Shishir: Hahahahaha!From one crackpot notion(Islam brining people together) to another!! Abrahamia indeed,tell me how what is the national flag of Abrahamia,what region(s) will it comprise,what would be the composition of the army,the parliament.What are its offical languages.How will you prevent the inevitable internecine warfare and attempts to wipeout Jews and Christians by an obviously large Muslim majority?

Debanjan: You really need to brush up your history skills. I suggest reading Robert Fisk's magnum opus , "Conquest of the Middle East" to understand your follies. Buy that book and read the chapters regarding the prelude to the Iraq-Iran war. Was visits by Pentagone officials (including Donald Rumsfeld) to Saddam Hussain were not encouragements enough ? Was the Western supply of plenty of nerve and sarin gasses to the Iraqi tyrant which ultimately ended up killing a lot of innocent Kurds in Hallabja , were not encouragement enough ? Was providing Saddam with GPS info. about the positioning of Iranian troops in the ground , was not good enough encouragement ? Please tell me what considers as good enough encouragement then ?

Shishir:Debanjan,it is obvious to me are you utterly lacking in sound judgement,common sense ,logic and reading comprehension.I said the West didnt encourage the invasion but once it did go through it tried to make the best of the situation by bleeding both Arab and Iranian despots while keep the oil prices stable.Donald Rumsfeld ties into my "making lemons out of lemonade" statement.Your argument would stand only if Rumsfeld visited Saddam BEFORE the invasion.Seriously it is obvious you lack common sense.


Note: Opinions expressed in comments are those of the authors alone and not necessarily those of Daniel Pipes. Original writing only, please. Comments are screened and in some cases edited before posting. Reasoned disagreement is welcome but not comments that are scurrilous, off-topic, commercial, disparaging religions, or otherwise inappropriate. For complete regulations, see the "Guidelines for Reader Comments".

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Reader comments (103) on this item

Title Commenter Date Thread
1Destruction of historical artifacts [77 words]jeanFeb 19, 2012 02:19193485
Muslims not capable of "hate" [412 words]Dan B.Feb 8, 2012 16:30193217
Are today's egyptians a civilization? [142 words]WalberJan 23, 2012 05:21192743
3Upsetting but not surprising [68 words]saraJan 13, 2012 18:05192569
1Just to clarify [25 words]Bernard ZimmermanJan 6, 2012 20:10192350
6Why would a mob destroy a thing of beauty? [283 words]PrashantDec 29, 2011 05:06192124
2Deliberate Defilement [80 words]Garry LockwoodJan 3, 2012 01:27192124
D. B. [75 words]The West becoming Islam's fire hydrantFeb 8, 2012 16:59192124
4Does this signal a shift in self perception of Egyptian identity? [566 words]ShishirDec 28, 2011 04:41192089
1My response to Shishir [344 words]Debanjan BanerjeeJan 7, 2012 22:11192089
3Response to dhimmi/Islamist apologist Debanjan [738 words]ShishirJan 9, 2012 05:57192089
1Dear Shishir [695 words]Debanjan BanerjeeJan 11, 2012 02:26192089
3Nile to Euphrates Israel,Mossadegh is an Arab,Islam unites Arabs and other nuggets of wisdom from Debanjan [574 words]ShishirJan 12, 2012 09:39192089
Dear Mr. Shishir [1172 words]Debanjan BanerjeeJan 16, 2012 00:12192089
More drivel from Debanjan [1357 words]ShishirJan 19, 2012 12:54192089
1Dear Mr. Shishir [1227 words]Debanjan BanerjeeJan 21, 2012 22:30192089
Debanjan claims he is the next Theodor Herzl [1847 words]ShishirJan 29, 2012 13:19192089
1My dear Shishir [849 words]Debanjan BanerjeeFeb 2, 2012 02:48192089
3At it again Debanjee? [839 words]Peter HallFeb 3, 2012 09:38192089
1My Answers to you. Mr. Hall [1205 words]Debanjan BanerjeeFeb 21, 2012 23:03192089
3Debanjee, you are hilarious [925 words]Peter HallFeb 22, 2012 19:25192089
Banning burkhas in publicc is justified [47 words]PrashantFeb 24, 2012 09:09192089
Dear MR. Prashant [106 words]Debanjan BanerjeeFeb 24, 2012 22:19192089
1Another square peg in a round hole Debanjee? [341 words]Peter HallFeb 26, 2012 08:25192089
Banerjee won't understand and switch the topic [135 words]PrashantFeb 26, 2012 10:16192089
1Dear Mr. Hall [824 words]Debanjan BanerjeeFeb 27, 2012 23:22192089
5The Core for Burning is in First pillar of Islam [75 words]Michael Hanni MorcosDec 27, 2011 21:39192081
Erase and Control [113 words]Jay1Dec 27, 2011 19:59192078
2Very very Proud [108 words]Michael Hanni MorcosDec 27, 2011 17:18192075
Where can the interview be viewed? [53 words]ShishirDec 28, 2011 07:14192075
2Very very Rusty [94 words]Michael Hanni MorcosDec 29, 2011 00:03192075
1Burn the library! [43 words]Martin H. KatchenDec 27, 2011 12:10192073
1Assaulting History [43 words]Georga CollinsDec 27, 2011 11:13192071
4Who controls the past controls the future. [99 words]IanusDec 28, 2011 14:53192071
But it did pose a threat. [67 words]JeffDec 31, 2011 14:50192071
2French government does not learn! [62 words]Gudrun EussnerDec 27, 2011 10:34192068
5The destruction of the Egyptian historical record [135 words]Saul KellyDec 27, 2011 09:51192067
1islamic stagnation [56 words]steve omaraFeb 2, 2012 23:09192067
2Return of "looted arts" to their countries of origin [208 words]
w/response from Daniel Pipes
Ronald ngDec 27, 2011 02:32192061
3What to loan Egypt. [17 words]Jon, a Brit in EurolandDec 28, 2011 10:15192061
2Mo vs. Mao [184 words]IanusDec 28, 2011 15:18192061
1Interesting perspective [151 words]Kepha HorDec 28, 2011 20:48192061
Destructions of Works of Art [157 words]Ronald NgDec 28, 2011 22:36192061
1You are right [139 words]Ronald NgDec 29, 2011 20:30192061
3You're too dogmatic about dogmas , I am afraid. [855 words]IanusDec 30, 2011 15:37192061
13The Parthenon Mosque [533 words]IanusDec 30, 2011 18:03192061
2Not Always The Case [145 words]BB KingDec 30, 2011 21:13192061
Intolerance [303 words]Ronald NgDec 30, 2011 21:24192061
Fighting Turkish Barbarity [138 words]7A3Jan 1, 2012 08:55192061
6When burning a book fails, then maybe converting it to Islam will be worth trying ? [785 words]IanusJan 1, 2012 16:48192061
7Missing sense of proportions and time [1047 words]IanusJan 1, 2012 19:33192061
Putting things into perspective [283 words]Ronald Paul NgJan 1, 2012 21:28192061
Still Not Always the Case [152 words]BB KingJan 1, 2012 22:59192061
3Fighting Turkish barbarity [94 words]IanusJan 2, 2012 17:04192061
1The choices... [49 words]Amin RiazJan 3, 2012 21:22192061
5Good news from Saudi Arabia : In 500 years witches will no longer be hunted and executed there ! [1159 words]IanusJan 5, 2012 10:42192061
Dogma [216 words]Ronald NgJan 5, 2012 21:46192061
8Aristotle vs. Allah [1502 words]IanusJan 6, 2012 10:16192061
3Not the Case Again [560 words]BB KingJan 7, 2012 00:39192061
8How many people did Mahommet kill? [873 words]IanusJan 7, 2012 14:27192061
3"He who is without sin among you, let him be the first to throw a stone at her." [1714 words]IanusJan 8, 2012 10:10192061
1So there is just one muslim voice... [53 words]car313Jan 9, 2012 11:35192061
To Assume [5 words]Amin RiazJan 9, 2012 22:45192061
Oh the Irony and Other Observations [444 words]BB KingJan 10, 2012 01:18192061
Answering Your Question [255 words]BB KingJan 10, 2012 01:49192061
5There is nothing hilarious or ironic in cultural nihilism which you represent . [1703 words]IanusJan 11, 2012 15:47192061
Changing the Goal Post [617 words]BB KingJan 11, 2012 19:10192061
3Feel free to circumvent also these questions ! [2237 words]IanusJan 13, 2012 11:18192061
3Do not trust anybody ! Rely on your ignorance ! [1443 words]IanusJan 13, 2012 13:26192061
Historical Revisionism Part 1 [312 words]BB KingJan 13, 2012 19:26192061
Cognitive Dissonance [168 words]BB KingJan 13, 2012 20:12192061
4"Don't trust your eyes!Trust mine!" [614 words]IanusJan 15, 2012 15:34192061
1Cognitive harmony between not knowing and not realizing one's not knowing [642 words]IanusJan 15, 2012 17:19192061
2Historical Revisionism Part 2 [421 words]BB KingJan 15, 2012 17:33192061
3The mystery of "the unusual depth ... of Lincoln's Christian perception" [772 words]IanusJan 16, 2012 07:40192061
Historical Revisionism Part 3 [443 words]BB KingJan 16, 2012 21:10192061
3The wasteland of whose imagination ? [1070 words]IanusJan 18, 2012 14:31192061
1I think you are onto something [168 words]Peter HallFeb 3, 2012 09:50192061
1Did you hear about ... [181 words]Amin RiazFeb 3, 2012 17:52192061
1Amin, you make a great victim [470 words]Peter HallFeb 4, 2012 20:25192061
Just to add [237 words]Peter HallFeb 4, 2012 20:53192061
8Islam's Destruction of Everything Beautiful [134 words]RobinDec 27, 2011 00:38192059
4You beat me to it, Robin [119 words]DEBORAH THE JUDGEDec 27, 2011 23:30192059
Robin from Australia is right [83 words]TedDec 28, 2011 09:45192059
6Copts are the true Egyptians [106 words]IanusDec 28, 2011 18:52192059
3Only the Koran worth knowing ... [116 words]RobinDec 29, 2011 01:30192059
Copts [142 words]DEBORAH THE JUDGEDec 29, 2011 20:15192059
2It is always Relative to the Time [121 words]Michael Hanni MorcosDec 31, 2011 12:59192059
You are right Deborah [125 words]Debanjan BanerjeeJan 7, 2012 22:01192059
L'Institut d' Égypte [41 words]
w/response from Daniel Pipes
hans GuggenheimDec 27, 2011 00:34192058
6"If those books are in agreement with the Quran, we have no need of them. And if they are opposed to the Quran, destroy them!" [517 words]IanusDec 28, 2011 13:35192058
1Peace Treaty is ultimate target [18 words]P RoseDec 26, 2011 23:41192057
What "peace" treaty [96 words]ShishirDec 28, 2011 04:48192057
4Cyprus [55 words]NikkiDec 26, 2011 23:12192056
8Sibel Edmonds will best explain to you why Turkish barbarity has never been punished. [445 words]IanusDec 28, 2011 14:37192056
1Happy 2012 , Ianus [213 words]Debanjan BanerjeeJan 7, 2012 21:52192056
4No reason for a Moslem to complain [415 words]IanusJan 11, 2012 17:21192056
1Dear Mr. Ianus [420 words]Debanjan BanerjeeJan 15, 2012 23:16192056
9An easy way to Islamize Eastern Europe = Saudi bribes +US pressure+Turkish jihad [745 words]IanusJan 22, 2012 09:08192056
Dear Mr. Ianus [138 words]Debanjan BanerjeeJan 24, 2012 22:26192056
3Cleptocracy [972 words]IanusJan 26, 2012 13:08192056
Dear Mr. Ianus I support you on this [371 words]Debanjan BanerjeeJan 31, 2012 12:03192056
1Re: An easy way to Islamize Eastern Europe = Saudi bribes +US pressure+Turkish jihad [40 words]NikJul 29, 2012 20:14192056

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Note: Opinions expressed in comments are those of the authors alone and not necessarily those of Daniel Pipes. Original writing only, please. Comments are screened and in some cases edited before posting. Reasoned disagreement is welcome but not comments that are scurrilous, off-topic, commercial, disparaging religions, or otherwise inappropriate. For complete regulations, see the "Guidelines for Reader Comments".

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