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Do not trust anybody ! Rely on your ignorance !

Reader comment on item: L'Institut d'Égypte – In Memoriam
in response to reader comment: Changing the Goal Post

Submitted by Ianus (Poland), Jan 13, 2012 at 13:26

BB King wrote :

> Secularism is superior to Christianity, Islam and other religions. Did your Jesus have a role to play in that? I don't think so. The Enlightenment did.<

Jesus did play a more important role in the rise of secularism than your doctrine allows you to presume.The reason why secularism didn't arise in Islam is that Mahomet told his followers to simply cut off the heads of those who dare think that there is something superior to Islam.Jesus asked his followers to be more humble and modest. And this is the main reason that Enlightenment could spread. By the way, Enlightenment is not equal to atheism and many of the most outstanding representatives of Enlightenment believed in God and were good Christians and nothing would appall them more than cultural nihilism which you represent.

> I don't know about you but my civilization i.e., the U.S. was built on the foundation of secularism and the Constitution. Not Jesus. Jesus said I am the way the truth and the life.<

Your ignorance is amazing. From the very beginning the American civilization was designed as the re-enactment of the Bible. The Puritans defined themselves as the New Jews,they fled the Egyptian bondage in England, in America they founded the New Israel and the Indians were seen by them as new Canaanites. Their own stringent codes of law were based on the Bible and religion determined various educational institutions including Harvard, Yale, William and Mary, Rutgers, Princeton, Brown, King's College (= Columbia), Dartmouth etc. Everywhere Bible studies were required and some even adopted Hebrew words in their official emblem or seal.Many Founding Fathers of America came from these universities - Thomas Jefferson from William and Mary, James Madison - Princeton, Alexander Hamilton - King's College. And what do we read in 'the Declaration of Independence' ?

"When in the course of human events it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation. We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness."

Does it sound secular in the spirit of your favorite site "Jesus never existed"?If I were to trust you, then "your" civilization of which you seem to be so proud appears to be founded exactly upon the "delusions" that you asked me to keep to myself and not to infect you or anybody else with it. ;)

>The First Amendment said Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion and Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof...<

So there is a basic contradiction between Jesus and the Constitution.<

If and only if you tacitly assume that religious tolerance about which the First Amendment says is incompatible with Christianity which is a very absurd claim. Since the end of the wars of religion in the 17th century religious tolerance was widely practiced and we in Poland had it as part of our laws as early as 1573 without becoming a secular state thereby.

Furthermore, can you name a single US president who was not a believer in Jesus? If Jesus and the Constitution are contradictions then why no atheists have so far reached the office to get rid of the contradiction? But wait, maybe you aspire to be the first to prove your dubious point ?

> No it's called the Universal Declaration of Human Rights. All countries that voted in favor of the Declaration should abide by its rules.<

Tacitus once remarked that good morals and manners are much better than the best laws. The Universal Declarations of Human Rights was signed by such abusive and inhuman countries as Afghanistan and Turkey. Do you think they believe in a single word contained in the declaration that runs counter to their deepest value system and history and they are to abide by it rules ?

On a more general note, there is nothing universal in human rights at all. They belong to a particular epoch, arose under particular circumstances and when these circumstances disappear - as they are doing now- what you will be left with will be a piece of yellow paper and genocides and oppression of anybody who isn't strong enough to oppress more efficiently.

> You initially said that America should not judge Poland and quoted Jesus in saying He who is without sin should cast the first stone (paraphrase). But two wrongs i.e., a wrong committed by Poland and a wrong committed by U.S. do not make a right. If America finds that Poland has done something wrong it should say so and vice-versa.<

The problem was not Poland, which has degenerated by now to become nothing better than a roll of toilet paper in the US toilet, but the USSR. As America's vassal state we have to silently receive and execute orders from our new master and praise his wisdom and generosity on every occasion and hush up every abuse and humiliation. A country which has not reached the level of our degradation can counter demands in a more dignified way as long as it give a fair chance to answer the charges raised against it by some powerful self-proclaimed preachers of morality.

<"I case you don't realize what your own source says , then it reveals high treason committed by the Tatars whom our president and you flatter so impudently. They defected to the enemy during a bloody war with the Turk, they looted our territory, killed and hunted our people to sell them into slavery.">

This is called "changing the goal posts." Recall that you initially asked me how many Tatars fought in the Gates of Vienna? I simply provided an answer to this question and this question only. Many Tatars indeed fight in the Gates of Vienna and they were rewarded by King John III. Furthermore, if Tatars indeed committed treason in Polish history then they have also shed their lives for the defense of Poland in many of Poland's wars as the source states.<<

Just for your information, the Tatar commander Samuel Murza Krzeczowski had 60 horses with him while the Polish army that moved from Cracow to save Vienna counted more than 27 000 men, including the dreaded Polish Husar cavalry that finally crushed the beastly Turk. I told you what 61 men were used for, didn't I?The story of Tatars "bravely shedding blood for Poland" against their Moslem brethren at Vienna and then being rewarded by the king that a few years before had fought their treacherous pillaging detachments is a legend originating from the Tatars themselves and finds no independent confirmation. That such an avid myth-maker like you has clutched at it it is very symptomatic. The partisan motive of the legend is clear enough.They wanted to whitewash their treason and depredations of our territory a few years before. These few Tatars I repeat were not used in combat but in the rear and if any Tatars excelled in the battle these were the Crimean Tatars of Haji Ghirey that prevented the prophet's banner from being captured by the Christian army and for it he was later rewarded with the title of the Crimean khan.

<"while in fact it did destroy Hellenism,now demands "links,books and other forms of documentation" where just basic common sense and the most rudimentary knowledge of history will do. Do you really believe you're a serious person?">

I will take that reply as you will not provide me with links, books and documentation to counter my assertion that Muslims indeed embraced Hellenism at one point. Are you afraid of something Ianus? I assure you that I don't bite. At least I backed up my "absurd" statements with a link, which you to this day did not refute. <

Adversus stultitiam nec di certare possunt - as the Romans used to say.

<"As to "an English source", thanks to "Google Translate" tool any non-English source, including Ferdinand Gregorovius, can become understandable to you.">

> If you watched the debate between Dhimmi No More and Amin carefully you would've noticed that Google Translate does a shoddy job in translating Arabic. Why should I trust it with German?<

Right! Do not trust anybody! Rely on your ignorance !


Note: Opinions expressed in comments are those of the authors alone and not necessarily those of Daniel Pipes. Original writing only, please. Comments are screened and in some cases edited before posting. Reasoned disagreement is welcome but not comments that are scurrilous, off-topic, commercial, disparaging religions, or otherwise inappropriate. For complete regulations, see the "Guidelines for Reader Comments".

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Reader comments (103) on this item

Title Commenter Date Thread
1Destruction of historical artifacts [77 words]jeanFeb 19, 2012 02:19193485
Muslims not capable of "hate" [412 words]Dan B.Feb 8, 2012 16:30193217
Are today's egyptians a civilization? [142 words]WalberJan 23, 2012 05:21192743
3Upsetting but not surprising [68 words]saraJan 13, 2012 18:05192569
1Just to clarify [25 words]Bernard ZimmermanJan 6, 2012 20:10192350
6Why would a mob destroy a thing of beauty? [283 words]PrashantDec 29, 2011 05:06192124
2Deliberate Defilement [80 words]Garry LockwoodJan 3, 2012 01:27192124
D. B. [75 words]The West becoming Islam's fire hydrantFeb 8, 2012 16:59192124
4Does this signal a shift in self perception of Egyptian identity? [566 words]ShishirDec 28, 2011 04:41192089
1My response to Shishir [344 words]Debanjan BanerjeeJan 7, 2012 22:11192089
3Response to dhimmi/Islamist apologist Debanjan [738 words]ShishirJan 9, 2012 05:57192089
1Dear Shishir [695 words]Debanjan BanerjeeJan 11, 2012 02:26192089
3Nile to Euphrates Israel,Mossadegh is an Arab,Islam unites Arabs and other nuggets of wisdom from Debanjan [574 words]ShishirJan 12, 2012 09:39192089
Dear Mr. Shishir [1172 words]Debanjan BanerjeeJan 16, 2012 00:12192089
More drivel from Debanjan [1357 words]ShishirJan 19, 2012 12:54192089
1Dear Mr. Shishir [1227 words]Debanjan BanerjeeJan 21, 2012 22:30192089
Debanjan claims he is the next Theodor Herzl [1847 words]ShishirJan 29, 2012 13:19192089
1My dear Shishir [849 words]Debanjan BanerjeeFeb 2, 2012 02:48192089
3At it again Debanjee? [839 words]Peter HallFeb 3, 2012 09:38192089
1My Answers to you. Mr. Hall [1205 words]Debanjan BanerjeeFeb 21, 2012 23:03192089
3Debanjee, you are hilarious [925 words]Peter HallFeb 22, 2012 19:25192089
Banning burkhas in publicc is justified [47 words]PrashantFeb 24, 2012 09:09192089
Dear MR. Prashant [106 words]Debanjan BanerjeeFeb 24, 2012 22:19192089
1Another square peg in a round hole Debanjee? [341 words]Peter HallFeb 26, 2012 08:25192089
Banerjee won't understand and switch the topic [135 words]PrashantFeb 26, 2012 10:16192089
1Dear Mr. Hall [824 words]Debanjan BanerjeeFeb 27, 2012 23:22192089
5The Core for Burning is in First pillar of Islam [75 words]Michael Hanni MorcosDec 27, 2011 21:39192081
Erase and Control [113 words]Jay1Dec 27, 2011 19:59192078
2Very very Proud [108 words]Michael Hanni MorcosDec 27, 2011 17:18192075
Where can the interview be viewed? [53 words]ShishirDec 28, 2011 07:14192075
2Very very Rusty [94 words]Michael Hanni MorcosDec 29, 2011 00:03192075
1Burn the library! [43 words]Martin H. KatchenDec 27, 2011 12:10192073
1Assaulting History [43 words]Georga CollinsDec 27, 2011 11:13192071
4Who controls the past controls the future. [99 words]IanusDec 28, 2011 14:53192071
But it did pose a threat. [67 words]JeffDec 31, 2011 14:50192071
2French government does not learn! [62 words]Gudrun EussnerDec 27, 2011 10:34192068
5The destruction of the Egyptian historical record [135 words]Saul KellyDec 27, 2011 09:51192067
1islamic stagnation [56 words]steve omaraFeb 2, 2012 23:09192067
2Return of "looted arts" to their countries of origin [208 words]
w/response from Daniel Pipes
Ronald ngDec 27, 2011 02:32192061
3What to loan Egypt. [17 words]Jon, a Brit in EurolandDec 28, 2011 10:15192061
2Mo vs. Mao [184 words]IanusDec 28, 2011 15:18192061
1Interesting perspective [151 words]Kepha HorDec 28, 2011 20:48192061
Destructions of Works of Art [157 words]Ronald NgDec 28, 2011 22:36192061
1You are right [139 words]Ronald NgDec 29, 2011 20:30192061
3You're too dogmatic about dogmas , I am afraid. [855 words]IanusDec 30, 2011 15:37192061
13The Parthenon Mosque [533 words]IanusDec 30, 2011 18:03192061
2Not Always The Case [145 words]BB KingDec 30, 2011 21:13192061
Intolerance [303 words]Ronald NgDec 30, 2011 21:24192061
Fighting Turkish Barbarity [138 words]7A3Jan 1, 2012 08:55192061
6When burning a book fails, then maybe converting it to Islam will be worth trying ? [785 words]IanusJan 1, 2012 16:48192061
7Missing sense of proportions and time [1047 words]IanusJan 1, 2012 19:33192061
Putting things into perspective [283 words]Ronald Paul NgJan 1, 2012 21:28192061
Still Not Always the Case [152 words]BB KingJan 1, 2012 22:59192061
3Fighting Turkish barbarity [94 words]IanusJan 2, 2012 17:04192061
1The choices... [49 words]Amin RiazJan 3, 2012 21:22192061
5Good news from Saudi Arabia : In 500 years witches will no longer be hunted and executed there ! [1159 words]IanusJan 5, 2012 10:42192061
Dogma [216 words]Ronald NgJan 5, 2012 21:46192061
8Aristotle vs. Allah [1502 words]IanusJan 6, 2012 10:16192061
3Not the Case Again [560 words]BB KingJan 7, 2012 00:39192061
8How many people did Mahommet kill? [873 words]IanusJan 7, 2012 14:27192061
3"He who is without sin among you, let him be the first to throw a stone at her." [1714 words]IanusJan 8, 2012 10:10192061
1So there is just one muslim voice... [53 words]car313Jan 9, 2012 11:35192061
To Assume [5 words]Amin RiazJan 9, 2012 22:45192061
Oh the Irony and Other Observations [444 words]BB KingJan 10, 2012 01:18192061
Answering Your Question [255 words]BB KingJan 10, 2012 01:49192061
5There is nothing hilarious or ironic in cultural nihilism which you represent . [1703 words]IanusJan 11, 2012 15:47192061
Changing the Goal Post [617 words]BB KingJan 11, 2012 19:10192061
3Feel free to circumvent also these questions ! [2237 words]IanusJan 13, 2012 11:18192061
3Do not trust anybody ! Rely on your ignorance ! [1443 words]IanusJan 13, 2012 13:26192061
Historical Revisionism Part 1 [312 words]BB KingJan 13, 2012 19:26192061
Cognitive Dissonance [168 words]BB KingJan 13, 2012 20:12192061
4"Don't trust your eyes!Trust mine!" [614 words]IanusJan 15, 2012 15:34192061
1Cognitive harmony between not knowing and not realizing one's not knowing [642 words]IanusJan 15, 2012 17:19192061
2Historical Revisionism Part 2 [421 words]BB KingJan 15, 2012 17:33192061
3The mystery of "the unusual depth ... of Lincoln's Christian perception" [772 words]IanusJan 16, 2012 07:40192061
Historical Revisionism Part 3 [443 words]BB KingJan 16, 2012 21:10192061
3The wasteland of whose imagination ? [1070 words]IanusJan 18, 2012 14:31192061
1I think you are onto something [168 words]Peter HallFeb 3, 2012 09:50192061
1Did you hear about ... [181 words]Amin RiazFeb 3, 2012 17:52192061
1Amin, you make a great victim [470 words]Peter HallFeb 4, 2012 20:25192061
Just to add [237 words]Peter HallFeb 4, 2012 20:53192061
8Islam's Destruction of Everything Beautiful [134 words]RobinDec 27, 2011 00:38192059
4You beat me to it, Robin [119 words]DEBORAH THE JUDGEDec 27, 2011 23:30192059
Robin from Australia is right [83 words]TedDec 28, 2011 09:45192059
6Copts are the true Egyptians [106 words]IanusDec 28, 2011 18:52192059
3Only the Koran worth knowing ... [116 words]RobinDec 29, 2011 01:30192059
Copts [142 words]DEBORAH THE JUDGEDec 29, 2011 20:15192059
2It is always Relative to the Time [121 words]Michael Hanni MorcosDec 31, 2011 12:59192059
You are right Deborah [125 words]Debanjan BanerjeeJan 7, 2012 22:01192059
L'Institut d' Égypte [41 words]
w/response from Daniel Pipes
hans GuggenheimDec 27, 2011 00:34192058
6"If those books are in agreement with the Quran, we have no need of them. And if they are opposed to the Quran, destroy them!" [517 words]IanusDec 28, 2011 13:35192058
1Peace Treaty is ultimate target [18 words]P RoseDec 26, 2011 23:41192057
What "peace" treaty [96 words]ShishirDec 28, 2011 04:48192057
4Cyprus [55 words]NikkiDec 26, 2011 23:12192056
8Sibel Edmonds will best explain to you why Turkish barbarity has never been punished. [445 words]IanusDec 28, 2011 14:37192056
1Happy 2012 , Ianus [213 words]Debanjan BanerjeeJan 7, 2012 21:52192056
4No reason for a Moslem to complain [415 words]IanusJan 11, 2012 17:21192056
1Dear Mr. Ianus [420 words]Debanjan BanerjeeJan 15, 2012 23:16192056
9An easy way to Islamize Eastern Europe = Saudi bribes +US pressure+Turkish jihad [745 words]IanusJan 22, 2012 09:08192056
Dear Mr. Ianus [138 words]Debanjan BanerjeeJan 24, 2012 22:26192056
3Cleptocracy [972 words]IanusJan 26, 2012 13:08192056
Dear Mr. Ianus I support you on this [371 words]Debanjan BanerjeeJan 31, 2012 12:03192056
1Re: An easy way to Islamize Eastern Europe = Saudi bribes +US pressure+Turkish jihad [40 words]NikJul 29, 2012 20:14192056

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Note: Opinions expressed in comments are those of the authors alone and not necessarily those of Daniel Pipes. Original writing only, please. Comments are screened and in some cases edited before posting. Reasoned disagreement is welcome but not comments that are scurrilous, off-topic, commercial, disparaging religions, or otherwise inappropriate. For complete regulations, see the "Guidelines for Reader Comments".

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