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"He who is without sin among you, let him be the first to throw a stone at her."

Reader comment on item: L'Institut d'Égypte – In Memoriam
in response to reader comment: Not the Case Again

Submitted by Ianus (Poland), Jan 8, 2012 at 10:10

BB King wrote :

Ianus wrote:

> Ianus, it seems you suffer from convenient amnesia. To refresh your memory you were an apologist for the USSR and Stalin, even going as far as to absolve both of their crimes in the invasion of Poland alongside Hitler and the Katyn Massacre. Take a look for yourself:

http://www.danielpipes.org/comments/191347 <

Speaking of amnesia , refreshing memory and the above link , I asked you a few questions there which you presumably forgot, so may I ask you now not to expose yourself to your own charges but boldly to reply to them? And their context to refresh it was as follows :

>BB King - Second don't forget who liberated your country by helping defeat the Nazis. It was not solely the USSR but the U.S. <

Ianus - The total German casualties on the Eastern front, up to Dec 31, 1944 were 2,742,909. During the same period of time Germany suffered 339,957 casualties on the western front, i.e. c. 15 %. ( R. Overmans , The German military losses in WWII) . Now how much of these losses can you logically ascribe exclusively to the US army , subtracting those inflicted by the British Empire , De Gaul's French etc ? 10% ? 5% ? Are you really serious about making me believe that 15-10% comes close to 85%?

I wouldn't like to be rude towards you but what you say is very arrogant and unfair, not to call it stealing someone else's victory and distorting clear historical record.<

As regards "absolving" I wrote :

" The Russians have recognized the crime and did their best to disclose it. Isn't it enough for you? Those who did it are no longer alive, so whom will you blame and for how long still ? A century? A millenium? And frankly, compared to the deadly ordeals the tsarist officer corps had been through with its almost total extermination after 1917 , the Polish military losses in Katyn look like a minor tragedy.

What is so painful and embarrassing about it is, though, that it all was publicized by the Nazis with a very specific objective in mind and looking at how it is being used now it appears to me that the objective is the same as in April 1943, even though the forces behind it are no longer operating from Berlin."

Now sorry that I am not going to play faithfully the game according to the rules defined by Dr. Joseph Goebbels and continued in his spirit by his zealous imitators in the West and here in Poland.Unlike you I feel that only those with an absolutely clean historical record have a right to throw stones at others and unlike you I find both my country and your country not to possess such a clean historical record and so they both have no moral right to shout out Dr. Goebbels' slogans and pretend not be connected to his agenda. As Jesus put it : "He who is without sin among you, let him be the first to throw a stone at her."

> So I am sure you can absolve the USSR of this tiny transgression as well. Everyone now knows you absolved them of other horrendous crimes.<

I wish that all were as sincere as the Russians in disclosing their misconduct and crimes. I do hint at what I wrote at the end of my comment you quoted as evidencing my "amnesia". In plain text - when you as an American soldier beat up in public a Polish taxi driver who suffers as a result brain concussion and when the police drives you not to a prison where you belong but back to your ship and impunity , then blaming the Soviets for crimes committed 70 years ago looks mildly speaking very suspect, not to use a harsher word.

Feel free to announce that the opposite is the case because we Poles are known to passively accept any amount of beating, humiliation ,abuse and exploitation from our new masters and occupiers as long as we are told to concentrate our attention on the Katyn massacre and hating the Russians .

<<"I take back the possessive pronoun "your" but still I think that by your defensive action on behalf of Islam you have more to do with it than you realize. I am afraid though that Moslems will "reward" your spirited defense of it one day just as the Saudis rewarded the Soviet atheists for championing ibn Saud's kingdom internationally.">>

"In particular, the Muslim Tatar community of Poland has been recognised for producing Polish nationalist heroes since its arrival in the 14th century. Just in November, a monument to Poland's Tatar population was unveiled by President Bronislaw Komorowski. "Tatars shed their blood in all national independence uprisings," Mr Komorowski said. "Their blood seeped into the foundations of the reborn Polish Republic.""


It seems like your government is rewarding Muslims, Ianus. Oh, Oh. <

It is for the first time I can hear that any government has also something relevant to say about history!

Anyway, I didn't vote for this government or the president who was publicly ridiculed for his ignorance of our language and history nor do I know anybody who supports or respects them. So whatever they do has nothing to do with what people think but with the hidden and unholy agenda this oligarchic regime is carrying out and perhaps even you will agree that a government's agenda and objective history rarely overlap.

I understand that for our new occupiers, the Brussels Empire builders and the International Monetary Fund it is the ideal government that uses -as instructed - destructive and unrepresentative minorities to dominate and control the majority that hates it and its policy of Poland's political and economic serfdom and demographic demise.

And as to "rewarding" Tatars and real history, some serious historical estimates say that during the raids of the Tatar hordes between the 14-th-17th c. in our south-eastern provinces c. 1 000 000 Poles had been taken prisoners and were over their brigands' nest in the Crimea sold on the slave markets of the Ottoman Empire. Their fate and suffering were horrible. Now what can you think of a government that instead of erecting monuments to a million Poles who suffered and perished from the hands of the Tatar slave-hunters erects monuments to Tatars? Whose government is it ? Ours?

Anyway, how many Tatar "national heroes" fought in the Polish army at the gates of Vienna in 1683 or during our earlier Polish-Turkish wars?

<"I wouldn't refer therefore to the webpage as "the source" because strictly speaking there are no sources there worth the name (i.e. original evidence, documents etc.), but a few arbitrarily collected books from which arbitrary quotes were made to prove a definite preconceived and politically correct point of view and which can't hold against Aristotle's law of non-contradiction.">

> If you feel that way then you should have no problem refuting every sentence uttered in the site I gave you. Yet you didn't even refute one sentence.<

It's hard to refute anything while confronted with a person that seem to be resistant to admit a wide range of rational arguments. Still I had no intention to refute "every sentence uttered in the site" because I believe in other sections the site may well contain quite reasonable sentences. But what you referred to looked so contrary to logic that I had to express my protest.

By the way, I said something on one sentence that seemed to me to be particularly absurd : " Muslim intellectuals adapted knowledge to the needs of Islam, but for the most part they were free to explore wide horizons and made inventions and discoveries unimagined in Christendom."

Islam leaves no freedom to anyone "to explore wide horizons". Wherever you come upon something which is not in agreement with Islam's absurdities you're reminded of what you really are - a brainless slave , a prisoner of the giant Islamic prison. But this is no refutation according to your "criteria", is it?

<<"It's a violent dogma spread and imposed by terror and kept alive by deceitful lies and propaganda">>

What "missionary activities" are of any relevance in a religion whose basic tenet is "Whoever abandons Islam, kill him !" ? In Islam "missionary activities" mean also terror that hides behind the scene. Just convert to Islam and then tell those who persuaded you to convert to Islam that you leave Islam and you will see how closely related "missionary activities" and terror are.

<<"Does your "source" - which looks like pasted verbatim from a CAIR or another Islamic website - address the issue? Of course,it doesn't as , ironically enough, Islamic sites don't either. So maybe your Islamizing atheists are waiting for the Moslems to invent a good lie to paste it unto their own site and to add it to the explanation that explains nothing">>

> This tells me you did not thoroughly browse the site. If you had you would've noticed that the site links to Faith Freedom, a site run by Ali Sina who is a Muslim apostate and fierce critic of Islam. Furthermore, here is an article on the same site criticizing Islam http://www.jesusneverexisted.com/islam1.html

And here: http://www.jesusneverexisted.com/islam2.html

I tell you that I had no intention to assert something about the site as a whole which I admit I don't know but only about the contents you referred to and I read.

And on a general note , when dealing with any extensive text you're unlikely to subscribe to everything it says. There is always something less and more certain, something open to debate and I doubt the authors of the site have ever pretended to be right in absoluetly everything. They can't be as dogmatic as Moslems, can they?


> Oh and thank you for citing (F. Gregrovius, History of the city of Athens in the Middle Ages, Dresden 1927 , p.556 ) something I have no immediate access to. Care to link us your proof?

It is here . In this 1889 edition the page is 396-397. In case you don't believe I translated it correctly,I encourage you to consult any other person who can read German.


Note: Opinions expressed in comments are those of the authors alone and not necessarily those of Daniel Pipes. Original writing only, please. Comments are screened and in some cases edited before posting. Reasoned disagreement is welcome but not comments that are scurrilous, off-topic, commercial, disparaging religions, or otherwise inappropriate. For complete regulations, see the "Guidelines for Reader Comments".

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Reader comments (103) on this item

Title Commenter Date Thread
1Destruction of historical artifacts [77 words]jeanFeb 19, 2012 02:19193485
Muslims not capable of "hate" [412 words]Dan B.Feb 8, 2012 16:30193217
Are today's egyptians a civilization? [142 words]WalberJan 23, 2012 05:21192743
3Upsetting but not surprising [68 words]saraJan 13, 2012 18:05192569
1Just to clarify [25 words]Bernard ZimmermanJan 6, 2012 20:10192350
6Why would a mob destroy a thing of beauty? [283 words]PrashantDec 29, 2011 05:06192124
2Deliberate Defilement [80 words]Garry LockwoodJan 3, 2012 01:27192124
D. B. [75 words]The West becoming Islam's fire hydrantFeb 8, 2012 16:59192124
4Does this signal a shift in self perception of Egyptian identity? [566 words]ShishirDec 28, 2011 04:41192089
1My response to Shishir [344 words]Debanjan BanerjeeJan 7, 2012 22:11192089
3Response to dhimmi/Islamist apologist Debanjan [738 words]ShishirJan 9, 2012 05:57192089
1Dear Shishir [695 words]Debanjan BanerjeeJan 11, 2012 02:26192089
3Nile to Euphrates Israel,Mossadegh is an Arab,Islam unites Arabs and other nuggets of wisdom from Debanjan [574 words]ShishirJan 12, 2012 09:39192089
Dear Mr. Shishir [1172 words]Debanjan BanerjeeJan 16, 2012 00:12192089
More drivel from Debanjan [1357 words]ShishirJan 19, 2012 12:54192089
1Dear Mr. Shishir [1227 words]Debanjan BanerjeeJan 21, 2012 22:30192089
Debanjan claims he is the next Theodor Herzl [1847 words]ShishirJan 29, 2012 13:19192089
1My dear Shishir [849 words]Debanjan BanerjeeFeb 2, 2012 02:48192089
3At it again Debanjee? [839 words]Peter HallFeb 3, 2012 09:38192089
1My Answers to you. Mr. Hall [1205 words]Debanjan BanerjeeFeb 21, 2012 23:03192089
3Debanjee, you are hilarious [925 words]Peter HallFeb 22, 2012 19:25192089
Banning burkhas in publicc is justified [47 words]PrashantFeb 24, 2012 09:09192089
Dear MR. Prashant [106 words]Debanjan BanerjeeFeb 24, 2012 22:19192089
1Another square peg in a round hole Debanjee? [341 words]Peter HallFeb 26, 2012 08:25192089
Banerjee won't understand and switch the topic [135 words]PrashantFeb 26, 2012 10:16192089
1Dear Mr. Hall [824 words]Debanjan BanerjeeFeb 27, 2012 23:22192089
5The Core for Burning is in First pillar of Islam [75 words]Michael Hanni MorcosDec 27, 2011 21:39192081
Erase and Control [113 words]Jay1Dec 27, 2011 19:59192078
2Very very Proud [108 words]Michael Hanni MorcosDec 27, 2011 17:18192075
Where can the interview be viewed? [53 words]ShishirDec 28, 2011 07:14192075
2Very very Rusty [94 words]Michael Hanni MorcosDec 29, 2011 00:03192075
1Burn the library! [43 words]Martin H. KatchenDec 27, 2011 12:10192073
1Assaulting History [43 words]Georga CollinsDec 27, 2011 11:13192071
4Who controls the past controls the future. [99 words]IanusDec 28, 2011 14:53192071
But it did pose a threat. [67 words]JeffDec 31, 2011 14:50192071
2French government does not learn! [62 words]Gudrun EussnerDec 27, 2011 10:34192068
5The destruction of the Egyptian historical record [135 words]Saul KellyDec 27, 2011 09:51192067
1islamic stagnation [56 words]steve omaraFeb 2, 2012 23:09192067
2Return of "looted arts" to their countries of origin [208 words]
w/response from Daniel Pipes
Ronald ngDec 27, 2011 02:32192061
3What to loan Egypt. [17 words]Jon, a Brit in EurolandDec 28, 2011 10:15192061
2Mo vs. Mao [184 words]IanusDec 28, 2011 15:18192061
1Interesting perspective [151 words]Kepha HorDec 28, 2011 20:48192061
Destructions of Works of Art [157 words]Ronald NgDec 28, 2011 22:36192061
1You are right [139 words]Ronald NgDec 29, 2011 20:30192061
3You're too dogmatic about dogmas , I am afraid. [855 words]IanusDec 30, 2011 15:37192061
13The Parthenon Mosque [533 words]IanusDec 30, 2011 18:03192061
2Not Always The Case [145 words]BB KingDec 30, 2011 21:13192061
Intolerance [303 words]Ronald NgDec 30, 2011 21:24192061
Fighting Turkish Barbarity [138 words]7A3Jan 1, 2012 08:55192061
6When burning a book fails, then maybe converting it to Islam will be worth trying ? [785 words]IanusJan 1, 2012 16:48192061
7Missing sense of proportions and time [1047 words]IanusJan 1, 2012 19:33192061
Putting things into perspective [283 words]Ronald Paul NgJan 1, 2012 21:28192061
Still Not Always the Case [152 words]BB KingJan 1, 2012 22:59192061
3Fighting Turkish barbarity [94 words]IanusJan 2, 2012 17:04192061
1The choices... [49 words]Amin RiazJan 3, 2012 21:22192061
5Good news from Saudi Arabia : In 500 years witches will no longer be hunted and executed there ! [1159 words]IanusJan 5, 2012 10:42192061
Dogma [216 words]Ronald NgJan 5, 2012 21:46192061
8Aristotle vs. Allah [1502 words]IanusJan 6, 2012 10:16192061
3Not the Case Again [560 words]BB KingJan 7, 2012 00:39192061
8How many people did Mahommet kill? [873 words]IanusJan 7, 2012 14:27192061
3"He who is without sin among you, let him be the first to throw a stone at her." [1714 words]IanusJan 8, 2012 10:10192061
1So there is just one muslim voice... [53 words]car313Jan 9, 2012 11:35192061
To Assume [5 words]Amin RiazJan 9, 2012 22:45192061
Oh the Irony and Other Observations [444 words]BB KingJan 10, 2012 01:18192061
Answering Your Question [255 words]BB KingJan 10, 2012 01:49192061
5There is nothing hilarious or ironic in cultural nihilism which you represent . [1703 words]IanusJan 11, 2012 15:47192061
Changing the Goal Post [617 words]BB KingJan 11, 2012 19:10192061
3Feel free to circumvent also these questions ! [2237 words]IanusJan 13, 2012 11:18192061
3Do not trust anybody ! Rely on your ignorance ! [1443 words]IanusJan 13, 2012 13:26192061
Historical Revisionism Part 1 [312 words]BB KingJan 13, 2012 19:26192061
Cognitive Dissonance [168 words]BB KingJan 13, 2012 20:12192061
4"Don't trust your eyes!Trust mine!" [614 words]IanusJan 15, 2012 15:34192061
1Cognitive harmony between not knowing and not realizing one's not knowing [642 words]IanusJan 15, 2012 17:19192061
2Historical Revisionism Part 2 [421 words]BB KingJan 15, 2012 17:33192061
3The mystery of "the unusual depth ... of Lincoln's Christian perception" [772 words]IanusJan 16, 2012 07:40192061
Historical Revisionism Part 3 [443 words]BB KingJan 16, 2012 21:10192061
3The wasteland of whose imagination ? [1070 words]IanusJan 18, 2012 14:31192061
1I think you are onto something [168 words]Peter HallFeb 3, 2012 09:50192061
1Did you hear about ... [181 words]Amin RiazFeb 3, 2012 17:52192061
1Amin, you make a great victim [470 words]Peter HallFeb 4, 2012 20:25192061
Just to add [237 words]Peter HallFeb 4, 2012 20:53192061
8Islam's Destruction of Everything Beautiful [134 words]RobinDec 27, 2011 00:38192059
4You beat me to it, Robin [119 words]DEBORAH THE JUDGEDec 27, 2011 23:30192059
Robin from Australia is right [83 words]TedDec 28, 2011 09:45192059
6Copts are the true Egyptians [106 words]IanusDec 28, 2011 18:52192059
3Only the Koran worth knowing ... [116 words]RobinDec 29, 2011 01:30192059
Copts [142 words]DEBORAH THE JUDGEDec 29, 2011 20:15192059
2It is always Relative to the Time [121 words]Michael Hanni MorcosDec 31, 2011 12:59192059
You are right Deborah [125 words]Debanjan BanerjeeJan 7, 2012 22:01192059
L'Institut d' Égypte [41 words]
w/response from Daniel Pipes
hans GuggenheimDec 27, 2011 00:34192058
6"If those books are in agreement with the Quran, we have no need of them. And if they are opposed to the Quran, destroy them!" [517 words]IanusDec 28, 2011 13:35192058
1Peace Treaty is ultimate target [18 words]P RoseDec 26, 2011 23:41192057
What "peace" treaty [96 words]ShishirDec 28, 2011 04:48192057
4Cyprus [55 words]NikkiDec 26, 2011 23:12192056
8Sibel Edmonds will best explain to you why Turkish barbarity has never been punished. [445 words]IanusDec 28, 2011 14:37192056
1Happy 2012 , Ianus [213 words]Debanjan BanerjeeJan 7, 2012 21:52192056
4No reason for a Moslem to complain [415 words]IanusJan 11, 2012 17:21192056
1Dear Mr. Ianus [420 words]Debanjan BanerjeeJan 15, 2012 23:16192056
9An easy way to Islamize Eastern Europe = Saudi bribes +US pressure+Turkish jihad [745 words]IanusJan 22, 2012 09:08192056
Dear Mr. Ianus [138 words]Debanjan BanerjeeJan 24, 2012 22:26192056
3Cleptocracy [972 words]IanusJan 26, 2012 13:08192056
Dear Mr. Ianus I support you on this [371 words]Debanjan BanerjeeJan 31, 2012 12:03192056
1Re: An easy way to Islamize Eastern Europe = Saudi bribes +US pressure+Turkish jihad [40 words]NikJul 29, 2012 20:14192056

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Note: Opinions expressed in comments are those of the authors alone and not necessarily those of Daniel Pipes. Original writing only, please. Comments are screened and in some cases edited before posting. Reasoned disagreement is welcome but not comments that are scurrilous, off-topic, commercial, disparaging religions, or otherwise inappropriate. For complete regulations, see the "Guidelines for Reader Comments".

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