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Debanjan claims he is the next Theodor Herzl

Reader comment on item: L'Institut d'Égypte – In Memoriam
in response to reader comment: Dear Mr. Shishir

Submitted by Shishir (United Arab Emirates), Jan 29, 2012 at 13:19

Shishir: You will forgive me if I dont take the word of a communist sympathizer like Steven Pinker at his word.

Debanjan: Can you please cite some solid proofs to support your allegation. You know it is the very same Anglo-Saxon tradition , that you support so vehemontly , tells that a person is innocent unless proven guilty.

Firstly:Why should insist on spreading misinformation.The author is Stephen Kinzer ,not Pinker.There was another British playwright with a similar name who I had in mind.Anyway this Kinzer fellow also was a critic of Cold War fought by America and as recently as January was making apologies for Castro run Cuba!Therefore a communist sympathizer

Debanjan:Anyways the thing to debate over here is whether Steven PInker is right in his views incriminating the establishments in Britan and USA regarding the overthrow of Mossadegh. Mr. Pinker's political affiliations hardly matters here.

Shishir:Actually a persons pro Soviets do matter a great deal when he offers opinions regarding pro Soviet agitators.

Shishir: "I would like to remind you that the surveying,discovery,drilling and rigs and other infrastructure were done overwhelmingly by the British and this was at the invitation of Iranians"

My Answer: Can you please prove to me that Iranians did invite the British ? Is the Anglo-Saxon oil corporation bribing few gullible heads of Iranian tribesmen become an invitation from Iranian people to the British to exploit their resources ?

Let us consider the records of Anglo-Iranian oil company in Iran. At the time of nationalization there were no Iranian engineers or technicians or system architects in that refinery. The only Iranians who were present were impoverished drilling and rigging workers , payed at the lowest level of the hierarchy. Can you please explain why the British did not bother to train or teach any Iranians as engineers or system architects ? Do you think making the Iranian people unable to run their own industry in their land is also part of the services the British did to Iran ?

Shishir: If the Iranians were unable to run their own industry,that is hardly the fault of the British.Both Soviets and Nazis had their eye on Iranian oil.Im not saying that the British were angels, but would rather have the Nazis have a go at siezing Iranian oil fields?

Debanjan:Now what about the balance sheets ? Do you know the British ensured that there were no Iranian board of directors present in the company ? Are you aware that Iranians did not have the right to audit any of the books of their own oil industry ? Are you aware that Iranians used to get less than a fifth of the total oil revenues from their own oil ? Are you aware that Iran could not consume a single drop of their own oil thereby ensuring no non-oil industry were established in Iran during the said period.

Shishir:I dont see why Iranians should be doing any of these things when Iranians did provide any expertise or investment in the extraction of the said oil?

Shishir : You think that with just one phone call to Stalin as you put it,the Soviets would send in the cavalry?Even if he wanted to(which you claim is the reason that he hadnt) ,that wouldnt happen!

My Answer : Owwww , and what exactly would stop Stalin from fulfilling the wish of Mossadegh had he made it in this case ? I am eagerly waiting for your answer here.

Shishir: No need to get excited.It is not my job to disprove your thesis but it is your job to prove yours.You need to info me with sources that Stalin was eager to fulfill Mossadegh every whim and desire.

Debanjan:Anyways I am still waiting for your arguments proving Mossadegh was a Soviet sympathizer.

ShishirMossadegh was aligned with the Tudeh party which was communist and openly pro Soviet.He instittued collectivist schemes such as abolishment of private farms and government ownership of land.This is one of the reasons he lost Shia support.

Shishir: I would like to remind you that the surveying,discovery,drilling and rigs and other infrastructure were done overwhelmingly by the British and this was at the invitation of Iranians.

My Answer : Are you aware of that the Chinese are talking about shoring up investments for infrastructure improvements in UK ? I am extending your above logic to say that all the money that the Chinese will be putting in UK should be completely owned by the Chinese. The Chinese would have absolute monopoly over the percentage of profits that would generate from this. There will be no non-Chinese labor , worker , engineer or architect employed in these projects and no Brit will be allowed to check the books. No British can be part of the board of directors of the projects. The running of the infrastructure and deciding of the toll taxes will rest with the Chinese and no Chinese citizen working for the projects in Britain should come under the jurisdiction of British law.

Shishir:That is between Britain and China to decide but seeing how British have technical skills ,capital,equipment and know how I doubt it would their share of the profits wont be as meager.

Debanjan:If you support the working of the Anglo-British in Iran then you should also support the stipulations regarding Chinese investment in UK infrastructure . Right ?

Shishir:Again that is an issue between UK and China!

Shishir:Your naivete is laughable.Just because something swears on the Quran why does that preclude him from being a Soviet sympathizer?

Debanjan : Ohh , now I have someone calling Mossadegh a person , "something". What should I call it ? Extreme creative efforts of your brain or just pen mistake ?

Shishir:Thats a typo.Relax.

Anyways , so even if we consider Mossadegh was a Soviet sympathizer , does that make it legitimate for UK and USA to overthrow him and replace him with a puppet tyrant ?By your own logic then considering the number of pro-Israel and anti-Islam politicians in UK and USA , it is high time that the Iranians try to throw out the existing systems in USA and UK and replace these with more democratic and Islamophile and Iranophile regimes , right ? I am just extending your logic further.

Shishir: Iran and other Islamists are already trying this thru stealth:Infiltration of academia,government,lobby groups,charity organizations,media and other venues.Not to mention possible Hezbollah bases in Mexico and Venezuala.The only reason that they dont do what you mentioned above is because they cant.When Muslims had the military power ,they never shied away from attacking Western targets.See Conquest of Egypt,Spain,Syria,Southern France,Italy,Ottoman conquest of Hungary and Balkans,Battle of Vienna,Lepanto,Barbary pirates etc etc etc

Shishir: Britian had protected Iran from Soviet aggression

My Answer : Ohhh then when the where were the British when the Soviets decided to invade and conquer the whole of Northern Iran during the second World war ? Was it also part of British plan for Iran ?

Shishir:I am talking about post Yalta period.Anyway your argument is as absurd as saying that if U.S wanted to save Germany from Soviets then why was East Germany under Soviet rule.You see where I am going with this?

Debanjan: Now tell me then why did Saddam not attack Iran when the Shah was in power ? Iraqis were having plenty of troubles over the waters of Shatt-AL-Arab as well as some border territories with the Iranians when the Shah was in power and Iraq and Iran almost went to war during 1974-75.

The Shah had provided support to the secular Peshmerga Kurdish guerillas in Iraq fighting the Bathist rule over there. But the Iranian Islamic republic had not done so.Whether you are aware of or not initially even Saddam had praised the Iranian revolution as both he and the Islamic revolutionaries had a common enemy , the secular Shah.

So tell me then why did Iraq exactly showed up the courage to attack Iran when Islamic republic came into being and did not attack when the Shah was in power ? It is clear that the US assistance to Shah had ensured Saddam fell in line. Only after Saddam was given assurances that US will not come into the help of the Islamic republic as they had come into the support of the Shah , he could conjure up the courage to attack the Islamic republic.

Shishir:The response to your needlessly verbose laundry list of incidents is very simple:A simple fact that you conveniently neglected to mention.The Shah's Iran was strong compared to Baathist Iraq.The Ayotallahs OTOH had purged the officers and the army in general upon taking power and the Arab world was terrified that the soft power of Shia revolutionaries would pervade their countries.So the decision was made by Saddam after encouragement from ARAB and not Western powers to strike while the iron was hot.If you are so upset about the invasion,take it up with Arabs not Westerners.Oh and btw Israelis provided tacit support to Iranians.Hope that confuses you some more.You dehumanize Arabs and deify the West when you imagine the former are unable to even tie their shoelaces without Western support!

Shishir: Hahahahaha!From one crackpot notion(Islam brining people together) to another!! Abrahamia indeed

Debanjan: People laughed at Hertz and others also regarding their dreams of a Zionist Utopia. I am hopeful that ultimately people in the region will realize that being divided from each other because of nationalistic and exceptionalist ideologies will not be good for their own advancements and developments. That will be the time when you will see my ideas becoming reality.

Shishir:No everyone laughs at only those like you who compare themselves to Herzl! Herzl's Zion was a practical ,not overly ambitious approach in the context of the spirit of nationalism that pervaded Europe after the Napoleanic invasion.Yours is an utterly nonsensical pipe dream.One would laugh at it if did entail sure genocide for Jews and Christians unless you would rather have them live like dhimmis

Shishir: Arab secular rulers like Gaddhafi,Saddam,Hosni et al hoarded their nations wealth and stored it away

My Answer: Owwww , now then why the West encourages them by allowing them to hoard their ill-gotten wealth into safe Western bank accounts ? It is really one year after the beginnings of the Arab Spring yet I have not seen a single report in the World media where any Western pundit have talked about giving back the Arab masses their wealth which were stolen from them by these tyrannical leaders.

Shishir:I dont know why you are howling in pain but whatever.Please provide evidence that the "West" encouraged them to hoard wealth and to my knowledge no Swiss bank or other accounts have Gaddhafi or Saddams wealth stashed away.Im all for releasing this wealth but you are looking in the wrong places ,the wealth is right there in the Arab countries and if you are not careful it will exit soon.See Egypt and the capital flight.

I believe that Arafats wife has almost 10 billion USD stashed in France ,please petition PLO to have the monies released.


Note: Opinions expressed in comments are those of the authors alone and not necessarily those of Daniel Pipes. Original writing only, please. Comments are screened and in some cases edited before posting. Reasoned disagreement is welcome but not comments that are scurrilous, off-topic, commercial, disparaging religions, or otherwise inappropriate. For complete regulations, see the "Guidelines for Reader Comments".

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Reader comments (103) on this item

Title Commenter Date Thread
1Destruction of historical artifacts [77 words]jeanFeb 19, 2012 02:19193485
Muslims not capable of "hate" [412 words]Dan B.Feb 8, 2012 16:30193217
Are today's egyptians a civilization? [142 words]WalberJan 23, 2012 05:21192743
3Upsetting but not surprising [68 words]saraJan 13, 2012 18:05192569
1Just to clarify [25 words]Bernard ZimmermanJan 6, 2012 20:10192350
6Why would a mob destroy a thing of beauty? [283 words]PrashantDec 29, 2011 05:06192124
2Deliberate Defilement [80 words]Garry LockwoodJan 3, 2012 01:27192124
D. B. [75 words]The West becoming Islam's fire hydrantFeb 8, 2012 16:59192124
4Does this signal a shift in self perception of Egyptian identity? [566 words]ShishirDec 28, 2011 04:41192089
1My response to Shishir [344 words]Debanjan BanerjeeJan 7, 2012 22:11192089
3Response to dhimmi/Islamist apologist Debanjan [738 words]ShishirJan 9, 2012 05:57192089
1Dear Shishir [695 words]Debanjan BanerjeeJan 11, 2012 02:26192089
3Nile to Euphrates Israel,Mossadegh is an Arab,Islam unites Arabs and other nuggets of wisdom from Debanjan [574 words]ShishirJan 12, 2012 09:39192089
Dear Mr. Shishir [1172 words]Debanjan BanerjeeJan 16, 2012 00:12192089
More drivel from Debanjan [1357 words]ShishirJan 19, 2012 12:54192089
1Dear Mr. Shishir [1227 words]Debanjan BanerjeeJan 21, 2012 22:30192089
Debanjan claims he is the next Theodor Herzl [1847 words]ShishirJan 29, 2012 13:19192089
1My dear Shishir [849 words]Debanjan BanerjeeFeb 2, 2012 02:48192089
3At it again Debanjee? [839 words]Peter HallFeb 3, 2012 09:38192089
1My Answers to you. Mr. Hall [1205 words]Debanjan BanerjeeFeb 21, 2012 23:03192089
3Debanjee, you are hilarious [925 words]Peter HallFeb 22, 2012 19:25192089
Banning burkhas in publicc is justified [47 words]PrashantFeb 24, 2012 09:09192089
Dear MR. Prashant [106 words]Debanjan BanerjeeFeb 24, 2012 22:19192089
1Another square peg in a round hole Debanjee? [341 words]Peter HallFeb 26, 2012 08:25192089
Banerjee won't understand and switch the topic [135 words]PrashantFeb 26, 2012 10:16192089
1Dear Mr. Hall [824 words]Debanjan BanerjeeFeb 27, 2012 23:22192089
5The Core for Burning is in First pillar of Islam [75 words]Michael Hanni MorcosDec 27, 2011 21:39192081
Erase and Control [113 words]Jay1Dec 27, 2011 19:59192078
2Very very Proud [108 words]Michael Hanni MorcosDec 27, 2011 17:18192075
Where can the interview be viewed? [53 words]ShishirDec 28, 2011 07:14192075
2Very very Rusty [94 words]Michael Hanni MorcosDec 29, 2011 00:03192075
1Burn the library! [43 words]Martin H. KatchenDec 27, 2011 12:10192073
1Assaulting History [43 words]Georga CollinsDec 27, 2011 11:13192071
4Who controls the past controls the future. [99 words]IanusDec 28, 2011 14:53192071
But it did pose a threat. [67 words]JeffDec 31, 2011 14:50192071
2French government does not learn! [62 words]Gudrun EussnerDec 27, 2011 10:34192068
5The destruction of the Egyptian historical record [135 words]Saul KellyDec 27, 2011 09:51192067
1islamic stagnation [56 words]steve omaraFeb 2, 2012 23:09192067
2Return of "looted arts" to their countries of origin [208 words]
w/response from Daniel Pipes
Ronald ngDec 27, 2011 02:32192061
3What to loan Egypt. [17 words]Jon, a Brit in EurolandDec 28, 2011 10:15192061
2Mo vs. Mao [184 words]IanusDec 28, 2011 15:18192061
1Interesting perspective [151 words]Kepha HorDec 28, 2011 20:48192061
Destructions of Works of Art [157 words]Ronald NgDec 28, 2011 22:36192061
1You are right [139 words]Ronald NgDec 29, 2011 20:30192061
3You're too dogmatic about dogmas , I am afraid. [855 words]IanusDec 30, 2011 15:37192061
13The Parthenon Mosque [533 words]IanusDec 30, 2011 18:03192061
2Not Always The Case [145 words]BB KingDec 30, 2011 21:13192061
Intolerance [303 words]Ronald NgDec 30, 2011 21:24192061
Fighting Turkish Barbarity [138 words]7A3Jan 1, 2012 08:55192061
6When burning a book fails, then maybe converting it to Islam will be worth trying ? [785 words]IanusJan 1, 2012 16:48192061
7Missing sense of proportions and time [1047 words]IanusJan 1, 2012 19:33192061
Putting things into perspective [283 words]Ronald Paul NgJan 1, 2012 21:28192061
Still Not Always the Case [152 words]BB KingJan 1, 2012 22:59192061
3Fighting Turkish barbarity [94 words]IanusJan 2, 2012 17:04192061
1The choices... [49 words]Amin RiazJan 3, 2012 21:22192061
5Good news from Saudi Arabia : In 500 years witches will no longer be hunted and executed there ! [1159 words]IanusJan 5, 2012 10:42192061
Dogma [216 words]Ronald NgJan 5, 2012 21:46192061
8Aristotle vs. Allah [1502 words]IanusJan 6, 2012 10:16192061
3Not the Case Again [560 words]BB KingJan 7, 2012 00:39192061
8How many people did Mahommet kill? [873 words]IanusJan 7, 2012 14:27192061
3"He who is without sin among you, let him be the first to throw a stone at her." [1714 words]IanusJan 8, 2012 10:10192061
1So there is just one muslim voice... [53 words]car313Jan 9, 2012 11:35192061
To Assume [5 words]Amin RiazJan 9, 2012 22:45192061
Oh the Irony and Other Observations [444 words]BB KingJan 10, 2012 01:18192061
Answering Your Question [255 words]BB KingJan 10, 2012 01:49192061
5There is nothing hilarious or ironic in cultural nihilism which you represent . [1703 words]IanusJan 11, 2012 15:47192061
Changing the Goal Post [617 words]BB KingJan 11, 2012 19:10192061
3Feel free to circumvent also these questions ! [2237 words]IanusJan 13, 2012 11:18192061
3Do not trust anybody ! Rely on your ignorance ! [1443 words]IanusJan 13, 2012 13:26192061
Historical Revisionism Part 1 [312 words]BB KingJan 13, 2012 19:26192061
Cognitive Dissonance [168 words]BB KingJan 13, 2012 20:12192061
4"Don't trust your eyes!Trust mine!" [614 words]IanusJan 15, 2012 15:34192061
1Cognitive harmony between not knowing and not realizing one's not knowing [642 words]IanusJan 15, 2012 17:19192061
2Historical Revisionism Part 2 [421 words]BB KingJan 15, 2012 17:33192061
3The mystery of "the unusual depth ... of Lincoln's Christian perception" [772 words]IanusJan 16, 2012 07:40192061
Historical Revisionism Part 3 [443 words]BB KingJan 16, 2012 21:10192061
3The wasteland of whose imagination ? [1070 words]IanusJan 18, 2012 14:31192061
1I think you are onto something [168 words]Peter HallFeb 3, 2012 09:50192061
1Did you hear about ... [181 words]Amin RiazFeb 3, 2012 17:52192061
1Amin, you make a great victim [470 words]Peter HallFeb 4, 2012 20:25192061
Just to add [237 words]Peter HallFeb 4, 2012 20:53192061
8Islam's Destruction of Everything Beautiful [134 words]RobinDec 27, 2011 00:38192059
4You beat me to it, Robin [119 words]DEBORAH THE JUDGEDec 27, 2011 23:30192059
Robin from Australia is right [83 words]TedDec 28, 2011 09:45192059
6Copts are the true Egyptians [106 words]IanusDec 28, 2011 18:52192059
3Only the Koran worth knowing ... [116 words]RobinDec 29, 2011 01:30192059
Copts [142 words]DEBORAH THE JUDGEDec 29, 2011 20:15192059
2It is always Relative to the Time [121 words]Michael Hanni MorcosDec 31, 2011 12:59192059
You are right Deborah [125 words]Debanjan BanerjeeJan 7, 2012 22:01192059
L'Institut d' Égypte [41 words]
w/response from Daniel Pipes
hans GuggenheimDec 27, 2011 00:34192058
6"If those books are in agreement with the Quran, we have no need of them. And if they are opposed to the Quran, destroy them!" [517 words]IanusDec 28, 2011 13:35192058
1Peace Treaty is ultimate target [18 words]P RoseDec 26, 2011 23:41192057
What "peace" treaty [96 words]ShishirDec 28, 2011 04:48192057
4Cyprus [55 words]NikkiDec 26, 2011 23:12192056
8Sibel Edmonds will best explain to you why Turkish barbarity has never been punished. [445 words]IanusDec 28, 2011 14:37192056
1Happy 2012 , Ianus [213 words]Debanjan BanerjeeJan 7, 2012 21:52192056
4No reason for a Moslem to complain [415 words]IanusJan 11, 2012 17:21192056
1Dear Mr. Ianus [420 words]Debanjan BanerjeeJan 15, 2012 23:16192056
9An easy way to Islamize Eastern Europe = Saudi bribes +US pressure+Turkish jihad [745 words]IanusJan 22, 2012 09:08192056
Dear Mr. Ianus [138 words]Debanjan BanerjeeJan 24, 2012 22:26192056
3Cleptocracy [972 words]IanusJan 26, 2012 13:08192056
Dear Mr. Ianus I support you on this [371 words]Debanjan BanerjeeJan 31, 2012 12:03192056
1Re: An easy way to Islamize Eastern Europe = Saudi bribes +US pressure+Turkish jihad [40 words]NikJul 29, 2012 20:14192056

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Mark my comment as a response to Debanjan claims he is the next Theodor Herzl by Shishir

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Note: Opinions expressed in comments are those of the authors alone and not necessarily those of Daniel Pipes. Original writing only, please. Comments are screened and in some cases edited before posting. Reasoned disagreement is welcome but not comments that are scurrilous, off-topic, commercial, disparaging religions, or otherwise inappropriate. For complete regulations, see the "Guidelines for Reader Comments".

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