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Aristotle vs. Allah

Reader comment on item: L'Institut d'Égypte – In Memoriam
in response to reader comment: Still Not Always the Case

Submitted by Ianus (Poland), Jan 6, 2012 at 10:16

BB King wrote :

> Ianus, first it seems that you still view me as a Muslim or favoring Islam, when I keep on telling you that I am an atheist.<

Do you know what country was the first to diplomatically recognize Saudi Arabia? The USSR ! Islam has had in its history so many and so improbable defenders, apologists and fellow travelers that I am not surprised at all that an (alleged?) atheist like you moves boldly to the front row to whitewash and defend it.

> You said "when your Islam burns books," what do you mean by my Islam? I have no relation to Islam.<

I take back the possessive pronoun "your" but still I think that by your defensive action on behalf of Islam you have more to do with it than you realize. I am afraid though that Moslems will "reward" your spirited defense of it one day just as the Saudis rewarded the Soviet atheists for championing ibn Saud's kingdom internationally.

> I think you're frankly biased in my opinion and have a myopic view of history and configure it to reflect your views.<

Well, I conclude from the above that unlike me you're not "biased", have no "myopic view of history" and don't "configure it to reflect your views".

You make far-reaching claims which it will be very interesting to compare to reality.

> You wrote that the Muslim world is in (or was in rather) opposition to "all Hellenism stands for."

That's simply not true. The Muslim world embraced Hellenism for a time being and made great advances in science, technology and other branches of knowledge.

The source I am about to give you for this is an anti-religion website so please don't dismiss it as being pro-Muslim, it is actually a site for skeptics and it criticizes Islam in other articles.



Will you agree that words mean something ,which is tantamount to saying that they don't mean arbitrarily anything else and definitely not their very opposites? Will you agree in other words that Aristotle's law of non-contradiction has universal validity ? To refresh your presumably excellent knowledge of ancient Greece let me remind you that in his Metaphysics (B.4c.3 ) Aristotle says :

" Evidently then such a principle is the most certain of all; which principle this is, let us proceed to say. It is, that the same attribute cannot at the same time belong and not belong to the same subject and in the same respect; we must presuppose, to guard against dialectical objections, any further qualifications which might be added. This, then, is the most certain of all principles, since it answers to the definition given above. For it is impossible for any one to believe the same thing to be and not to be, as some think Heraclitus says. For what a man says, he does not necessarily believe; and if it is impossible that contrary attributes should belong at the same time to the same subject (the usual qualifications must be presupposed in this premiss too), and if an opinion which contradicts another is contrary to it, obviously it is impossible for the same man at the same time to believe the same thing to be and not to be; for if a man were mistaken on this point he would have contrary opinions at the same time. It is for this reason that all who are carrying out a demonstration reduce it to this as an ultimate belief; for this is naturally the starting-point even for all the other axioms."

Now as I notice that you are not very particular about semantics and distinguishing meanings, let me ask you how you understand "Hellenism"? Does it mean anything, including its opposite, to you ? Am I mistaken judging that you have no clear idea of what it is as your dubious site quoted suggests ?

Let me note that , first, the authors of the site haven't bothered to make use of any books published before 1980-ies and knowing what politically correct spirit prevails in our epoch let me express my doubt of this resource which is ,secondly, reinforced by the unwillingness of the authors to include anything that might even hint at a doubt about the idyllic picture of early Islam they outline. I wouldn't refer therefore to the webpage as "the source" because strictly speaking there are no sources there worth the name (i.e. original evidence, documents etc.), but a few arbitrarily collected books from which arbitrary quotes were made to prove a definite preconceived and politically correct point of view and which can't hold against Aristotle's law of non-contradiction.

Hellenism means a definite thing which you can't arbitrarily distort to make the opposite of its meaning. At its core lies "η παιδεία" "paideia" (Werner Jäger needed 3 thick volumes to describe this concept) - Hellenic education based on a free rational, humanistic worldview. This worldview doesn't accept anything without evidence, without critical discussion and inquiry. It does reject anything which is absurd,illogical,contradictory and inhumane. This is what in short Hellenism stands for.

Now let's take a look at what Islam, the Quran and Allah stand for! Islam is obscurantism par excellence! It's a primitive,arbitrary,irrational, supremacist and inhumane worldview reflecting a low stage of mental and social development. It's a violent dogma spread and imposed by terror and kept alive by deceitful lies and propaganda with rigorous exclusion of any free thought and inquiry and punishing those who reject its absurd claims with death. Islam's religious views are unverifiable,gross and primitive. Its founder was a notoriously illiterate and perverted gangster.Its mythology is unimaginative and vulgar and ridiculous. Allah is the ultimate, omnipotent, cruel and bloody monster.

Now given the meaning of the two notions how can you seriously assert that "the Muslim world embraced Hellenism"? Have the Muslim world that allegedly "embraced Hellenism" relegated the Quran to its only rightful place - the dustbin of history- as the Hellenic spirit requires ? Or how can your authors you call "the source" in earnest make us believe in "Hellenized Moslems","enlightenment", " a crucible of innovation"? Why do they call enslaving human thought by a violent barbarian cult "preserving and extending much of classical knowledge"? And the most incredible sentence of all is this "Muslim intellectuals adapted knowledge to the needs of Islam, but for the most part they were free to explore wide horizons and made inventions and discoveries unimagined in Christendom." A religion which proudly calls itself slavery (=Islam) allows out of a sudden its followers to be "free to explore" anything??? I'd be interested to know how this "freedom" can in principle coexist with Islam's claims to be "the only true knowledge" making of all things non-Islamic "jakhilya" or "stupidity", "ignorance"? Does your "source" - which looks like pasted verbatim from a CAIR or another Islamic website - address the issue? Of course,it doesn't as , ironically enough, Islamic sites don't either. So maybe your Islamizing atheists are waiting for the Moslems to invent a good lie to paste it unto their own site and to add it to the explanation that explains nothing "In a tragic irony, the Islamic world, trapped in oligarchic theocracy, stultified further development and began centuries of stagnation and decline."

What Moslems do with Hellenism is well illustrated by the way they - to quote you - "embraced Hellenism" in its very cradle - Athens. "If it was not in 1458 that the Parthenon was made the Main Mosque of Athens conquered by the Turks, then at the latest in 1460 the angry sultan Mehmed II must have given order to change it into a mosque. So the second metamorphosis of the stunning temple of Pallas Athena took place[...]Inside the temple the Muslim mirbar or pulpit was set up and the mihrab or prayer niche was directed towards holy Mecca.Soon in the south-west corner of the temple , in the former traesure-room of Pallas Athena , a tall minaret was erected which was higher than once the statue of Pallas or the tower of the Francs. It was the most conspicuous symbol of the Islamic rule of the Turks over the city. From that moment on up the steep stairs built from ancient stones five times a day a muezzin used to climb to the top of the minaret to proclaim in his shrill voice into the silence of the humiliated and oppressed city of Solon and Plato that Allah is the only god and that Muhammad is his true prophet". (F. Gregrovius, History of the city of Athens in the Middle Ages, Dresden 1927 , p.556 )

This is what happens when Islam enslaves a civilization. It bears little resemblance to the fairy tale you are trying to sell here of "The Muslim world embraced Hellenism", doesn't it ?

And by the way it is the deep reason why Islam means invariably regress and decline.Islam like every parasite perishes with the host it sucks dry and destroys.


Note: Opinions expressed in comments are those of the authors alone and not necessarily those of Daniel Pipes. Original writing only, please. Comments are screened and in some cases edited before posting. Reasoned disagreement is welcome but not comments that are scurrilous, off-topic, commercial, disparaging religions, or otherwise inappropriate. For complete regulations, see the "Guidelines for Reader Comments".

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Reader comments (103) on this item

Title Commenter Date Thread
1Destruction of historical artifacts [77 words]jeanFeb 19, 2012 02:19193485
Muslims not capable of "hate" [412 words]Dan B.Feb 8, 2012 16:30193217
Are today's egyptians a civilization? [142 words]WalberJan 23, 2012 05:21192743
3Upsetting but not surprising [68 words]saraJan 13, 2012 18:05192569
1Just to clarify [25 words]Bernard ZimmermanJan 6, 2012 20:10192350
6Why would a mob destroy a thing of beauty? [283 words]PrashantDec 29, 2011 05:06192124
2Deliberate Defilement [80 words]Garry LockwoodJan 3, 2012 01:27192124
D. B. [75 words]The West becoming Islam's fire hydrantFeb 8, 2012 16:59192124
4Does this signal a shift in self perception of Egyptian identity? [566 words]ShishirDec 28, 2011 04:41192089
1My response to Shishir [344 words]Debanjan BanerjeeJan 7, 2012 22:11192089
3Response to dhimmi/Islamist apologist Debanjan [738 words]ShishirJan 9, 2012 05:57192089
1Dear Shishir [695 words]Debanjan BanerjeeJan 11, 2012 02:26192089
3Nile to Euphrates Israel,Mossadegh is an Arab,Islam unites Arabs and other nuggets of wisdom from Debanjan [574 words]ShishirJan 12, 2012 09:39192089
Dear Mr. Shishir [1172 words]Debanjan BanerjeeJan 16, 2012 00:12192089
More drivel from Debanjan [1357 words]ShishirJan 19, 2012 12:54192089
1Dear Mr. Shishir [1227 words]Debanjan BanerjeeJan 21, 2012 22:30192089
Debanjan claims he is the next Theodor Herzl [1847 words]ShishirJan 29, 2012 13:19192089
1My dear Shishir [849 words]Debanjan BanerjeeFeb 2, 2012 02:48192089
3At it again Debanjee? [839 words]Peter HallFeb 3, 2012 09:38192089
1My Answers to you. Mr. Hall [1205 words]Debanjan BanerjeeFeb 21, 2012 23:03192089
3Debanjee, you are hilarious [925 words]Peter HallFeb 22, 2012 19:25192089
Banning burkhas in publicc is justified [47 words]PrashantFeb 24, 2012 09:09192089
Dear MR. Prashant [106 words]Debanjan BanerjeeFeb 24, 2012 22:19192089
1Another square peg in a round hole Debanjee? [341 words]Peter HallFeb 26, 2012 08:25192089
Banerjee won't understand and switch the topic [135 words]PrashantFeb 26, 2012 10:16192089
1Dear Mr. Hall [824 words]Debanjan BanerjeeFeb 27, 2012 23:22192089
5The Core for Burning is in First pillar of Islam [75 words]Michael Hanni MorcosDec 27, 2011 21:39192081
Erase and Control [113 words]Jay1Dec 27, 2011 19:59192078
2Very very Proud [108 words]Michael Hanni MorcosDec 27, 2011 17:18192075
Where can the interview be viewed? [53 words]ShishirDec 28, 2011 07:14192075
2Very very Rusty [94 words]Michael Hanni MorcosDec 29, 2011 00:03192075
1Burn the library! [43 words]Martin H. KatchenDec 27, 2011 12:10192073
1Assaulting History [43 words]Georga CollinsDec 27, 2011 11:13192071
4Who controls the past controls the future. [99 words]IanusDec 28, 2011 14:53192071
But it did pose a threat. [67 words]JeffDec 31, 2011 14:50192071
2French government does not learn! [62 words]Gudrun EussnerDec 27, 2011 10:34192068
5The destruction of the Egyptian historical record [135 words]Saul KellyDec 27, 2011 09:51192067
1islamic stagnation [56 words]steve omaraFeb 2, 2012 23:09192067
2Return of "looted arts" to their countries of origin [208 words]
w/response from Daniel Pipes
Ronald ngDec 27, 2011 02:32192061
3What to loan Egypt. [17 words]Jon, a Brit in EurolandDec 28, 2011 10:15192061
2Mo vs. Mao [184 words]IanusDec 28, 2011 15:18192061
1Interesting perspective [151 words]Kepha HorDec 28, 2011 20:48192061
Destructions of Works of Art [157 words]Ronald NgDec 28, 2011 22:36192061
1You are right [139 words]Ronald NgDec 29, 2011 20:30192061
3You're too dogmatic about dogmas , I am afraid. [855 words]IanusDec 30, 2011 15:37192061
13The Parthenon Mosque [533 words]IanusDec 30, 2011 18:03192061
2Not Always The Case [145 words]BB KingDec 30, 2011 21:13192061
Intolerance [303 words]Ronald NgDec 30, 2011 21:24192061
Fighting Turkish Barbarity [138 words]7A3Jan 1, 2012 08:55192061
6When burning a book fails, then maybe converting it to Islam will be worth trying ? [785 words]IanusJan 1, 2012 16:48192061
7Missing sense of proportions and time [1047 words]IanusJan 1, 2012 19:33192061
Putting things into perspective [283 words]Ronald Paul NgJan 1, 2012 21:28192061
Still Not Always the Case [152 words]BB KingJan 1, 2012 22:59192061
3Fighting Turkish barbarity [94 words]IanusJan 2, 2012 17:04192061
1The choices... [49 words]Amin RiazJan 3, 2012 21:22192061
5Good news from Saudi Arabia : In 500 years witches will no longer be hunted and executed there ! [1159 words]IanusJan 5, 2012 10:42192061
Dogma [216 words]Ronald NgJan 5, 2012 21:46192061
8Aristotle vs. Allah [1502 words]IanusJan 6, 2012 10:16192061
3Not the Case Again [560 words]BB KingJan 7, 2012 00:39192061
8How many people did Mahommet kill? [873 words]IanusJan 7, 2012 14:27192061
3"He who is without sin among you, let him be the first to throw a stone at her." [1714 words]IanusJan 8, 2012 10:10192061
1So there is just one muslim voice... [53 words]car313Jan 9, 2012 11:35192061
To Assume [5 words]Amin RiazJan 9, 2012 22:45192061
Oh the Irony and Other Observations [444 words]BB KingJan 10, 2012 01:18192061
Answering Your Question [255 words]BB KingJan 10, 2012 01:49192061
5There is nothing hilarious or ironic in cultural nihilism which you represent . [1703 words]IanusJan 11, 2012 15:47192061
Changing the Goal Post [617 words]BB KingJan 11, 2012 19:10192061
3Feel free to circumvent also these questions ! [2237 words]IanusJan 13, 2012 11:18192061
3Do not trust anybody ! Rely on your ignorance ! [1443 words]IanusJan 13, 2012 13:26192061
Historical Revisionism Part 1 [312 words]BB KingJan 13, 2012 19:26192061
Cognitive Dissonance [168 words]BB KingJan 13, 2012 20:12192061
4"Don't trust your eyes!Trust mine!" [614 words]IanusJan 15, 2012 15:34192061
1Cognitive harmony between not knowing and not realizing one's not knowing [642 words]IanusJan 15, 2012 17:19192061
2Historical Revisionism Part 2 [421 words]BB KingJan 15, 2012 17:33192061
3The mystery of "the unusual depth ... of Lincoln's Christian perception" [772 words]IanusJan 16, 2012 07:40192061
Historical Revisionism Part 3 [443 words]BB KingJan 16, 2012 21:10192061
3The wasteland of whose imagination ? [1070 words]IanusJan 18, 2012 14:31192061
1I think you are onto something [168 words]Peter HallFeb 3, 2012 09:50192061
1Did you hear about ... [181 words]Amin RiazFeb 3, 2012 17:52192061
1Amin, you make a great victim [470 words]Peter HallFeb 4, 2012 20:25192061
Just to add [237 words]Peter HallFeb 4, 2012 20:53192061
8Islam's Destruction of Everything Beautiful [134 words]RobinDec 27, 2011 00:38192059
4You beat me to it, Robin [119 words]DEBORAH THE JUDGEDec 27, 2011 23:30192059
Robin from Australia is right [83 words]TedDec 28, 2011 09:45192059
6Copts are the true Egyptians [106 words]IanusDec 28, 2011 18:52192059
3Only the Koran worth knowing ... [116 words]RobinDec 29, 2011 01:30192059
Copts [142 words]DEBORAH THE JUDGEDec 29, 2011 20:15192059
2It is always Relative to the Time [121 words]Michael Hanni MorcosDec 31, 2011 12:59192059
You are right Deborah [125 words]Debanjan BanerjeeJan 7, 2012 22:01192059
L'Institut d' Égypte [41 words]
w/response from Daniel Pipes
hans GuggenheimDec 27, 2011 00:34192058
6"If those books are in agreement with the Quran, we have no need of them. And if they are opposed to the Quran, destroy them!" [517 words]IanusDec 28, 2011 13:35192058
1Peace Treaty is ultimate target [18 words]P RoseDec 26, 2011 23:41192057
What "peace" treaty [96 words]ShishirDec 28, 2011 04:48192057
4Cyprus [55 words]NikkiDec 26, 2011 23:12192056
8Sibel Edmonds will best explain to you why Turkish barbarity has never been punished. [445 words]IanusDec 28, 2011 14:37192056
1Happy 2012 , Ianus [213 words]Debanjan BanerjeeJan 7, 2012 21:52192056
4No reason for a Moslem to complain [415 words]IanusJan 11, 2012 17:21192056
1Dear Mr. Ianus [420 words]Debanjan BanerjeeJan 15, 2012 23:16192056
9An easy way to Islamize Eastern Europe = Saudi bribes +US pressure+Turkish jihad [745 words]IanusJan 22, 2012 09:08192056
Dear Mr. Ianus [138 words]Debanjan BanerjeeJan 24, 2012 22:26192056
3Cleptocracy [972 words]IanusJan 26, 2012 13:08192056
Dear Mr. Ianus I support you on this [371 words]Debanjan BanerjeeJan 31, 2012 12:03192056
1Re: An easy way to Islamize Eastern Europe = Saudi bribes +US pressure+Turkish jihad [40 words]NikJul 29, 2012 20:14192056

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