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There is nothing hilarious or ironic in cultural nihilism which you represent .

Reader comment on item: L'Institut d'Égypte – In Memoriam
in response to reader comment: Oh the Irony and Other Observations

Submitted by Ianus (Poland), Jan 11, 2012 at 15:47

BB King wrote

> Ianus, at least come to this agreement. Please tell me that you find the irony hilarious.

I gave you a site, the title of which is: Jesus Never Existed. Many times on this very thread I have told you that I am atheist. Yet you quoted Jesus in order to defend yourself, counter my assertions and persuade me to see your viewpoint. ROTL LOL! <

I wish you were a more self-critical person. I doubt e.g. you can imagine that the authors of the webpage you rely upon so heavily are hardly competent to determine whether Jesus existed or not. But even assuming the most unlikely version that they are right and he didn't exist , so what? Does it follow that Jesus' teaching hasn't existed either or our moral values based upon this teaching are forthwith abrogated and nullified ? You must be a very poor in spirit person if you can't see this obvious point, namely that denying Christ's existence doesn't change that much. It doesn't abolish or even undermine the moral ideas of Christianity and the last 2000 years of our written history shaped by them.

> I don't care what your imaginary friend says. Please keep your delusions as Richard Dawkins likes to call it, to yourself do not infect me with it.<

What you call "my imaginary friend" is a person that has determined the course of moral and spiritual and thus material history for the last two thousand years in the civilized world and has a very compelling moral point. With all due respect for Dawkins' genius I doubt Dawkins or even you will determine a decade of history. Dawkins is an admirable scientist, yet I doubt he is himself without any "delusions" either and by denying two thouand years of recorded history I am afraid Dawkins has encroached upon a province he's alien to and can't ay so many relevant things about.

So do you think that I should find denying two millenia of our cultural existence hilarious ? You say you're an atheist. I can't clearly figure out what you mean by it. What I can clearly see though in front of me is a cultural nihilist, a dogmatic person,visibly unaware of what foundations our civilization have been built upon and happy to deny the person that have contributed so much to its construction. What I find hilarious is that at the same time I notice such a proclivity in you to moralize and preach in your other arguments. There is a suspicion I can't get rid of. Don't you say 'Jesus never existed' because you're trying hard to play his role here and there in miniature ?

> But on a more serious note you're using the Tu quoque fallacy.No nation in the history of the world has clean hands. This is because nations are social constructs i.e., human creations and human beings are fallible, greedy, murderous and inherently evil.Only the law restrains our darkest passions, which we no doubt exhibited in the jungle until one day as Thomas Hobbes said and I paraphrase we found out that: life in the jungle is nasty, brutish and short.<

And what is your point? That you're the Law , you know the Law or that the Law bought in America by different lobbies to promote their narrow interests makes you superior to the rest of mankind and gives you a right to be a judge while you're in fact just an interested party to the lawsuit?

<"Anyway, how many Tatar "national heroes" fought in the Polish army at the gates of Vienna in 1683 or during our earlier Polish-Turkish wars?">

This source claims: "The Lipkas (tartars) fought in 1683 under King John III at Vienna, and their merits were recognised and rewarded at the 1684 Diet."


Click on origin and history of Lipka tartars.

It also lists other wars the tartars fought for the Poles.

If you don't wish to refute the entire site but all means don't. I for one wouldn't want to impose such as Herculean task on you. You have a life no doubt and other business to take care of.<

Don't be so patronizing and indulgent. Wherever I see absurdities I can expose them without any harm done to my life,time or business.

Have you you ever really cared to read what you quote ? I doubt you have so now you have got a chance to. Your link states :

>... the massive influx of Tatar asylum seekers to Polish territory of the Commonwealth had aroused animosity and resentment from the side of the Polish nobility in the Kingdom; resentment degenerated into hatred as a result of the depredations and violent assaults perpetrated by other groups of Tatars in the service of the Kingdom (Crimean Tatars, Nogai Tatars, Budziacki Tatars and other professional pillagers). The Lipkas were not entirely blameless in this respect, as they occasionally indulged in such practices themselves.

Over the winter of 1671/72 a psychological war was played out that turned on the difficult choice between religion and fatherland. Were the Polish Tatars being driven to commit treason, or had their fatherland not first betrayed them by denying the rights? ... The first companies deserted at the end of 1671. These desertions were not the acts of small groups of soldiers but of the cavalry captains themselves, each of whom had under them from several dozen to over a hundred horse.

The first Lipka detachments went over to the enemy in November and December 1671, although at this time the desertion involved only a few cavalry companies. However, by spring this had developed into a general revolt with "over a dozen Tatar captains and lieutenants going over to the Turkish side with their companies. Captain Aleksander Kryczynski led the desertion." As foreseen by Jan Sobieski (at that time still Hetman, not King) the Turkish army first fell upon Kamieniec, while the Tatar light cavalry units, including the renegade Lipkas, laid waste to the Podole and the neighbouring voivodships.

After the fall of Kamieniec Podolski, the Tatars made wide-ranging incursions into the territory of the Commonwealth; against Wolyn and Red Ruthenia and even as far as the Lublin Voivoship that the ancient Tatar invaders had never set eyes on. "The fall of Kamieniec Podolski opened the road to the territory of the Commonwealth to the Turkish army. The advance of the Sultans army was preceded by Tatar czambuls whose vanguard was the companies of traitorous Polish Tatars. The Lipkas expertly disguised themselves in Polish uniforms and arms and deceived those fleeing in the path of the Turkish advance. They entered many Ukrainian and Podolski villages without a struggle, and having rounded up the animals and taken away in fetters the inhabitants thus caught by surprise, they then abandoned these areas to the following Crimean Horde who looted and burned the deserted villages."

I case you don't realize what your own source says , then it reveals high treason committed by the Tatars whom our president and you flatter so impudently. They defected to the enemy during a bloody war with the Turk, they looted our territory, killed and hunted our people to sell them into slavery. Do you think nobody remembers it because you hope that your source won't be checked and your half-truths and distortions will not be revealed ?

Tatars were almost never used in wars against Mahometans because they were wont to desert and betray us. They fought against Christians - the Germans, the Swedes , the Russians. At Vienna there were few Tatars who were needed as interpreters and messengers and were not used in open combat against the beastly Turks with whom they secretly sympathized and in case of our defeat were sure to turn on us joining hands with the Moslem. So one avoided relying upon them while fighting Moslems. Exactly the same situation prevailed in Moscovy with the Moscovite Tatars.

> However, since you assert that the authors of the particular webpage I cited and here it is again http://www.jesusneverexisted.com/baghdad-summer.html were not fully telling the truth about history and Islam, then you should counter their claims with evidence and facts. You did not provide counter-evidence, just your words not backed up by links, books, and other forms of documentation.<

A person who ignores Aristotle's first law of thinking, i.e. the law of non-contradiction, and proposes one of the most absurd statements I have ever seen, viz. that "The Muslim world embraced Hellenism" while in fact it did destroy Hellenism,now demands "links,books and other forms of documentation" where just basic common sense and the most rudimentary knowledge of history will do. Do you really believe you're a serious person?

> Don't subscribe to anything it says if your heart contends but tell me with empirical evidence why you feel that the authors of this site were wrong about Hellenism and Islam.<

If what I have written is not enough , then I am afraid nothing will. To understand the point you have to know more about Hellenism and Islam. If you know nothing or almost nothing about both, then you may really wonder what this crazy Ianus is talking about ? Well, contra negantem principia non est disputandum.

> I know no one who speaks German. Give me an English source. If your source is historical then no doubt it will be reported by other historians. Or are you claiming that only the historian of this book has a monopoly on the truth?<

You're really a queer fellow. What "historical source"and "monopoly on the truth" do you mean?You don't even know the most basic fact that the Turks occupied Athens, changed the Parthenon into a mosque , built a minaret over it and according to their creed five times a day they called the city of Solon and Plato to prayer. I don't know what I have to blame more for your amazing ignorance - your laziness , lack of curiosity or the fact that maybe you used to play truant too often during your school days?

As to "an English source", thanks to "Google Translate" tool any non-English source, including Ferdinand Gregorovius, can become understandable to you.


Note: Opinions expressed in comments are those of the authors alone and not necessarily those of Daniel Pipes. Original writing only, please. Comments are screened and in some cases edited before posting. Reasoned disagreement is welcome but not comments that are scurrilous, off-topic, commercial, disparaging religions, or otherwise inappropriate. For complete regulations, see the "Guidelines for Reader Comments".

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Reader comments (103) on this item

Title Commenter Date Thread
1Destruction of historical artifacts [77 words]jeanFeb 19, 2012 02:19193485
Muslims not capable of "hate" [412 words]Dan B.Feb 8, 2012 16:30193217
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1Just to clarify [25 words]Bernard ZimmermanJan 6, 2012 20:10192350
6Why would a mob destroy a thing of beauty? [283 words]PrashantDec 29, 2011 05:06192124
2Deliberate Defilement [80 words]Garry LockwoodJan 3, 2012 01:27192124
D. B. [75 words]The West becoming Islam's fire hydrantFeb 8, 2012 16:59192124
4Does this signal a shift in self perception of Egyptian identity? [566 words]ShishirDec 28, 2011 04:41192089
1My response to Shishir [344 words]Debanjan BanerjeeJan 7, 2012 22:11192089
3Response to dhimmi/Islamist apologist Debanjan [738 words]ShishirJan 9, 2012 05:57192089
1Dear Shishir [695 words]Debanjan BanerjeeJan 11, 2012 02:26192089
3Nile to Euphrates Israel,Mossadegh is an Arab,Islam unites Arabs and other nuggets of wisdom from Debanjan [574 words]ShishirJan 12, 2012 09:39192089
Dear Mr. Shishir [1172 words]Debanjan BanerjeeJan 16, 2012 00:12192089
More drivel from Debanjan [1357 words]ShishirJan 19, 2012 12:54192089
1Dear Mr. Shishir [1227 words]Debanjan BanerjeeJan 21, 2012 22:30192089
Debanjan claims he is the next Theodor Herzl [1847 words]ShishirJan 29, 2012 13:19192089
1My dear Shishir [849 words]Debanjan BanerjeeFeb 2, 2012 02:48192089
3At it again Debanjee? [839 words]Peter HallFeb 3, 2012 09:38192089
1My Answers to you. Mr. Hall [1205 words]Debanjan BanerjeeFeb 21, 2012 23:03192089
3Debanjee, you are hilarious [925 words]Peter HallFeb 22, 2012 19:25192089
Banning burkhas in publicc is justified [47 words]PrashantFeb 24, 2012 09:09192089
Dear MR. Prashant [106 words]Debanjan BanerjeeFeb 24, 2012 22:19192089
1Another square peg in a round hole Debanjee? [341 words]Peter HallFeb 26, 2012 08:25192089
Banerjee won't understand and switch the topic [135 words]PrashantFeb 26, 2012 10:16192089
1Dear Mr. Hall [824 words]Debanjan BanerjeeFeb 27, 2012 23:22192089
5The Core for Burning is in First pillar of Islam [75 words]Michael Hanni MorcosDec 27, 2011 21:39192081
Erase and Control [113 words]Jay1Dec 27, 2011 19:59192078
2Very very Proud [108 words]Michael Hanni MorcosDec 27, 2011 17:18192075
Where can the interview be viewed? [53 words]ShishirDec 28, 2011 07:14192075
2Very very Rusty [94 words]Michael Hanni MorcosDec 29, 2011 00:03192075
1Burn the library! [43 words]Martin H. KatchenDec 27, 2011 12:10192073
1Assaulting History [43 words]Georga CollinsDec 27, 2011 11:13192071
4Who controls the past controls the future. [99 words]IanusDec 28, 2011 14:53192071
But it did pose a threat. [67 words]JeffDec 31, 2011 14:50192071
2French government does not learn! [62 words]Gudrun EussnerDec 27, 2011 10:34192068
5The destruction of the Egyptian historical record [135 words]Saul KellyDec 27, 2011 09:51192067
1islamic stagnation [56 words]steve omaraFeb 2, 2012 23:09192067
2Return of "looted arts" to their countries of origin [208 words]
w/response from Daniel Pipes
Ronald ngDec 27, 2011 02:32192061
3What to loan Egypt. [17 words]Jon, a Brit in EurolandDec 28, 2011 10:15192061
2Mo vs. Mao [184 words]IanusDec 28, 2011 15:18192061
1Interesting perspective [151 words]Kepha HorDec 28, 2011 20:48192061
Destructions of Works of Art [157 words]Ronald NgDec 28, 2011 22:36192061
1You are right [139 words]Ronald NgDec 29, 2011 20:30192061
3You're too dogmatic about dogmas , I am afraid. [855 words]IanusDec 30, 2011 15:37192061
13The Parthenon Mosque [533 words]IanusDec 30, 2011 18:03192061
2Not Always The Case [145 words]BB KingDec 30, 2011 21:13192061
Intolerance [303 words]Ronald NgDec 30, 2011 21:24192061
Fighting Turkish Barbarity [138 words]7A3Jan 1, 2012 08:55192061
6When burning a book fails, then maybe converting it to Islam will be worth trying ? [785 words]IanusJan 1, 2012 16:48192061
7Missing sense of proportions and time [1047 words]IanusJan 1, 2012 19:33192061
Putting things into perspective [283 words]Ronald Paul NgJan 1, 2012 21:28192061
Still Not Always the Case [152 words]BB KingJan 1, 2012 22:59192061
3Fighting Turkish barbarity [94 words]IanusJan 2, 2012 17:04192061
1The choices... [49 words]Amin RiazJan 3, 2012 21:22192061
5Good news from Saudi Arabia : In 500 years witches will no longer be hunted and executed there ! [1159 words]IanusJan 5, 2012 10:42192061
Dogma [216 words]Ronald NgJan 5, 2012 21:46192061
8Aristotle vs. Allah [1502 words]IanusJan 6, 2012 10:16192061
3Not the Case Again [560 words]BB KingJan 7, 2012 00:39192061
8How many people did Mahommet kill? [873 words]IanusJan 7, 2012 14:27192061
3"He who is without sin among you, let him be the first to throw a stone at her." [1714 words]IanusJan 8, 2012 10:10192061
1So there is just one muslim voice... [53 words]car313Jan 9, 2012 11:35192061
To Assume [5 words]Amin RiazJan 9, 2012 22:45192061
Oh the Irony and Other Observations [444 words]BB KingJan 10, 2012 01:18192061
Answering Your Question [255 words]BB KingJan 10, 2012 01:49192061
5There is nothing hilarious or ironic in cultural nihilism which you represent . [1703 words]IanusJan 11, 2012 15:47192061
Changing the Goal Post [617 words]BB KingJan 11, 2012 19:10192061
3Feel free to circumvent also these questions ! [2237 words]IanusJan 13, 2012 11:18192061
3Do not trust anybody ! Rely on your ignorance ! [1443 words]IanusJan 13, 2012 13:26192061
Historical Revisionism Part 1 [312 words]BB KingJan 13, 2012 19:26192061
Cognitive Dissonance [168 words]BB KingJan 13, 2012 20:12192061
4"Don't trust your eyes!Trust mine!" [614 words]IanusJan 15, 2012 15:34192061
1Cognitive harmony between not knowing and not realizing one's not knowing [642 words]IanusJan 15, 2012 17:19192061
2Historical Revisionism Part 2 [421 words]BB KingJan 15, 2012 17:33192061
3The mystery of "the unusual depth ... of Lincoln's Christian perception" [772 words]IanusJan 16, 2012 07:40192061
Historical Revisionism Part 3 [443 words]BB KingJan 16, 2012 21:10192061
3The wasteland of whose imagination ? [1070 words]IanusJan 18, 2012 14:31192061
1I think you are onto something [168 words]Peter HallFeb 3, 2012 09:50192061
1Did you hear about ... [181 words]Amin RiazFeb 3, 2012 17:52192061
1Amin, you make a great victim [470 words]Peter HallFeb 4, 2012 20:25192061
Just to add [237 words]Peter HallFeb 4, 2012 20:53192061
8Islam's Destruction of Everything Beautiful [134 words]RobinDec 27, 2011 00:38192059
4You beat me to it, Robin [119 words]DEBORAH THE JUDGEDec 27, 2011 23:30192059
Robin from Australia is right [83 words]TedDec 28, 2011 09:45192059
6Copts are the true Egyptians [106 words]IanusDec 28, 2011 18:52192059
3Only the Koran worth knowing ... [116 words]RobinDec 29, 2011 01:30192059
Copts [142 words]DEBORAH THE JUDGEDec 29, 2011 20:15192059
2It is always Relative to the Time [121 words]Michael Hanni MorcosDec 31, 2011 12:59192059
You are right Deborah [125 words]Debanjan BanerjeeJan 7, 2012 22:01192059
L'Institut d' Égypte [41 words]
w/response from Daniel Pipes
hans GuggenheimDec 27, 2011 00:34192058
6"If those books are in agreement with the Quran, we have no need of them. And if they are opposed to the Quran, destroy them!" [517 words]IanusDec 28, 2011 13:35192058
1Peace Treaty is ultimate target [18 words]P RoseDec 26, 2011 23:41192057
What "peace" treaty [96 words]ShishirDec 28, 2011 04:48192057
4Cyprus [55 words]NikkiDec 26, 2011 23:12192056
8Sibel Edmonds will best explain to you why Turkish barbarity has never been punished. [445 words]IanusDec 28, 2011 14:37192056
1Happy 2012 , Ianus [213 words]Debanjan BanerjeeJan 7, 2012 21:52192056
4No reason for a Moslem to complain [415 words]IanusJan 11, 2012 17:21192056
1Dear Mr. Ianus [420 words]Debanjan BanerjeeJan 15, 2012 23:16192056
9An easy way to Islamize Eastern Europe = Saudi bribes +US pressure+Turkish jihad [745 words]IanusJan 22, 2012 09:08192056
Dear Mr. Ianus [138 words]Debanjan BanerjeeJan 24, 2012 22:26192056
3Cleptocracy [972 words]IanusJan 26, 2012 13:08192056
Dear Mr. Ianus I support you on this [371 words]Debanjan BanerjeeJan 31, 2012 12:03192056
1Re: An easy way to Islamize Eastern Europe = Saudi bribes +US pressure+Turkish jihad [40 words]NikJul 29, 2012 20:14192056

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Note: Opinions expressed in comments are those of the authors alone and not necessarily those of Daniel Pipes. Original writing only, please. Comments are screened and in some cases edited before posting. Reasoned disagreement is welcome but not comments that are scurrilous, off-topic, commercial, disparaging religions, or otherwise inappropriate. For complete regulations, see the "Guidelines for Reader Comments".

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