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yasemin: You have a secular heart constricted by a Muslim mind

Reader comment on item: Crisis in Turkey
in response to reader comment: True we learned İslam from Arabs and our ancestors had totally different beiefs. We think the same way for more than eighty years

Submitted by Plato (India), Mar 17, 2010 at 22:02

yesemin, you write,

>>I would like to know, how many Christian believe that Jesus' father is God. I really do, this is always stg. I wonder.<<

All Christians believe that Allah is the father of Jesus. You find this strange. But Muslim do not find it strange that an illiterate man received religious messages via an angel from Allah.

If Allah exists why can't He father children? It should be child's play for Him as He is the one who creates sperm in men's gonads and later inserts them into women second-hand with the help of a man. Why can't He fertilise a woman (Mary) directly?

>>True, we learned İslam from Arabs. Our ancestor had totally different traditions. First of all women were very important. <<

You are one of the nations who imposed Islam on themselves. Most had it imposed on them by the Arab sword. By accepting Islam you let go of some of your great traditions like giving importance to women unlike Islam which demeans women as not just second class humans (2:228. 4:34) but are even considered to be animals/slaves in men's hands (Ibn Ishaq, Al Tabari)

>>It is true that İslam we learned from Arabs came together with their traditions. Today most of us got rid of those Arab influences <<

Unfortunately Islam demands that in all important traditions you accept their traditions. Do you seriously believe that a merciful Allah would establish only one Kaaba for all humans, including the natives who lived in the Americas, or the Eskimos? Making the Haj a universal requirement itself is a clear demonstration that Islam is a spearhead of Arabian imperialism. The Prophet must be laughing in his grave at all the people from all over the world who congregate like sheep in the millions making noises in Arabic every year in his hometown. Another important Arab tradition is praying in a language you do not understand.

>>Today most of us got rid of those Arab influences.<<

Unless you get rid Haj and praying in Arabic, you cannot be really free of Arab influences.

>>Our way of belief is now according to our way of understanding İslam, not word by word, since the book Kuran was written much later, and also includes many traditional Arabic way of living and belongs to very many centuries ago.<<

This belief of yours, if accepted by the majority of Muslims, is really a great leap forward for humanity i.e. not taking every word of the Koran to be written in stone for all time.

>>There are also things that oppose each other.<<

You mean there are contradictions in the messages of Allah? Another giant step for mankind, if accepted by Muslims at large.

>> Still the essence is better than all the religions. Children cannot be guilty from birth, or we are not the real children of Allah, but all people are His children.<<

The essence of Islam is the belief in the Oneness of Allah. All other crimes are forgivable. For this silly crime of associating others with Him Allah condemns the majority of mankind to torture for ever. What is this compared to considering a child to be guilty for Adam and Eve having chewed an apple. Does Jehovah threaten to burn all his non-Christian children in hell for this crime of their forebears?

>>Using brain is important, loving and caring others is very important etc.<<

Using the brains Allah has given us is the one thing He does not want us to do. For believers the verses I quote below are profound but it brings a smile to the lips of us kaffirs. Please read them carefully. They tell you that even if you have brains they are not to be used.

006.123: YUSUFALI: Thus have We placed leaders in every town, its wicked men, to plot (and burrow) therein: but they only plot against their own souls, and they perceive it not. [Allah the All-Merciful places wicked leaders in towns to mislead humans!]

006.124 : When there comes to them a sign (from Allah), They say: "We shall not believe until we receive one (exactly) like those received by Allah's messengers." Allah knoweth best where (and how) to carry out His mission. Soon will the wicked be overtaken by humiliation before Allah, and a severe punishment, for all their plots. [Now these poor humans used their brains and wanted to know why the all-powerful Allah cannot show them what He shows a chosen few. Allah crushes this use of people's brains by saying He knows best, calling such people wicked and threatening humiliation and punishment. Allah made them wicked in the first place by using His own wicked men to lead them astray]

006.125 Those whom Allah (in His plan) willeth to guide,- He openeth their breast to Islam; those whom He willeth to leave straying,- He maketh their breast close and constricted, as if they had to climb up to the skies: thus doth Allah (heap) the penalty on those who refuse to believe. [Allah planned to guide Turkey to His path. He also guided the Muslims of Turkey to massacre those whom He had not guided i.e. the Armenians ]

006.126: This is the way of thy Lord, leading straight: We have detailed the signs for those who receive admonition. [You read in the previous two verses how the Lord guides non-Muslims on the STRAIGHT path to hell.]

Yesemin, can an all-knowing creator come up with such puerile verses that make people who really understand what the Koran is saying laugh?

>>There are Mouslims who still wants to live like Arabs, because they are the ones who thing bliving according to Allah's wishes needs to be as Arabs way of belief. This is their choice and no one cares, unless they do not try to change us all.<<

If you pray in Arabic, if you turn towards Mecca when praying, if you eat only halal meat, if you go on haj and kill animals to please Allah like the pre-Islamic Arabs, if you greet each other with 'salam aleikum..' you are no different from Muslims who behave like pseudo Arabs.

>>And yes, they kill their own doughters for religion purposes, in the southeast of Turkiye.<<

Muslims proudly proclaim that Islam ended the barbaric practice of killing female children among Arabs. This would mean that the coming of Islam introduced the killing of daughters into Turkey (Unless this was a pre-Islamic custom among the Turkic tribes also, which Islam failed to eradicate)

>>They do not send girls to school. This is what we are trying to end, a real problem for us. And there are many very successful projects of sending girls to school. Only women can overcome this. Cause using religion enables men to dominate women like free servants. This radical men hate all the projects that save women from ignorance.<<

Islam says women are like property in men's their hands. They can be purchased as a wife by paying meher, or can be kept as concubines from among the slaves a man holds or can be thrashed if the man is dissatisfied with his wife's behaviour. Why should the Muslim man not enjoy this Allah-given right of treating women like his slave and servant?

>>Radical Islamism is very very worldly, it enables slavery. The so called sacred men enslave the others' labour and all men enslave womens' labour and sexuality.<<

The ordinary Islam contained in the Koran allows slavery. For this read:

23.5: And who guard their private parts,
23.6: Except before their mates or those whom their right hands possess, for they surely are not blameable,

4.36: And serve Allah and do not associate any thing with Him and be good to the parents and to the near of kin and the orphans and the needy and the neighbor of (your) kin and the alien neighbor, and the companion in a journey and the wayfarer and those whom your right hands possess; surely Allah does not love him who is proud, boastful;

The above verses I have taken from the Koran published by 'Muslims against Sharia'. They removed several verses which allow the prophet to keep slaves (33:50 for instance) but have not removed others probably because slaves are mentioned in nearly 100 verses and removing them might garble the meaning of the sura. The verse quoted below show how casually Allah talks of slaves, as though it is their natural state:

16.75: Allah sets forth a parable: (consider) a slave, the property of another, (who) has no power over anything, and one whom We have granted from Ourselves a goodly sustenance so he spends from it secretly and openly; are the two alike? (All) praise is due to Allah! Nay, most of them do not know.

>>So, radicalism is either being stupid or being very foxy and mischief. Being secular also means to live like a human, not the slave of radicals.<<

Being secular one cannot be a Muslim as Allah the Glorious allows Muslims to keep slaves, an abhorrent practice no civilized person can condone.

>>And for more than eighty years we are living as humans, and try to overcome some habits of the ones who do not.<<

This is an admission that under hundreds of years of the Islamic Caliphate of the Ottomans you were not living like humans. Islam did not humanize the wild Turkish tribes. The semblance of secularism enforced by Ataturk did humanize Turkey within eighty years. Why do you remain a Muslim?

>>That is all, not a word less, not a word more, either you believe or not, facts are facts.<<

One clear fact that emerges from this post is that you do not accept the Koran word for word and admit there are contradictions in the Koran. Congratulations that is a beginning to becoming a true secularist!

>>And the rest is bla bla....<<

The entire Koran seems blabbering bla bla… to me. Starting with Al Fatiha, the surah every Muslim repeats in every prayer. A narcissistic Allah praying to Himself as the verse does not begin with "Say, or Read". The rest of it devoted to telling Muslims not to follow the fate of the Jews (who have earned Allah's anger) or the Christians (those who have gone astray).

>>I do not say we are perfect, not at all. But if no country interferes we are<<

Nobody can be perfect. The Armenians did not interfere with you, yet Turkey had a million of them massacred. You interfered with many countries that did not interfere with you. The Bulgarians, the Serbs, right up to Austria were all interfered with by Turkey. Turkey was not perfect, is not perfect. You can become perfect only by becoming perfectly secular.

Yesemin, I must admit after reading this post that you have your heart in the right place. You are striving mightily to be secular and a Muslim at the same time, an impossibility unless you are willing as you seem to be, to jettison some of the worst verses in Allah's Book. Such a project to clean up the Koran is already on. Go to this link: http://www.reformislam.org/koran.php

In this new version of the Koran you will find Surah 9 and Surah 111 missing. Also many verses like 4:34, so demeaning to women, have been excised. The authors who have revised Allah's unalterable words have done a fairly good job. Allah's promise to protect His word for ever have been given the lie. Nor have the authors been struck down by litghtening.

Regards

Plato

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