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Fatima:It is good you admit clearly that Allah does not love non-Muslims. Part I

Reader comment on item: Destroying Sculptures of Muhammad
in response to reader comment: Thank you for your classy response

Submitted by : (India), Mar 28, 2008 at 04:05

Fatima, you wrote:

>>Even though i disagree with almost everything that you said, I would like to thank you for your classy response. at least i felt no hate coming out from your comment as i felt when i read other comments .. for that my dear, I Thank you :)<<

Thank you for your kind words. But I am not trying to frame classy responses. I am just trying to probe for the truth in your statements and to check whether the statements you make have logical consistency and are without contradiction. For instance read what you have written to me next and my response.

>>I would like to point that It will be no pleasure to see anyone beeing tortured in the judgement day .. I don't even know if i'd be safe in that day ! no one knows ..<<

But, Fatima, you and I may not know if we will be safe on that big day. But Allah knew before you were born, before your grandparents were born and before Eve fed Adam that fatal apple whether you would suffer torture on judgment day. You see judgment day is not correctly named. It is still in the future. But Allah had judged you even before he created the universe out of his love for us. Can you pick a hole in this logic without making Allah look foolish when He claims to know everything, the past, present and the future?

>>and I never said that it was mentioned in quran that God loves those who don't beleive in him! ofcourse he doesn't.<<

It is good you admit that Allah does not love disbelievers. Which leads to the conclusion Allah loves only Muslims. Which leads to the further conclusion that non-Muslims must convert to Islam for their own good. Which naturally means that when Muslims went about invading countries near and far and converting them they thought they were doing it for the good of the infidels' souls. Christians of old thought so too. This is a disease typical of most monotheistic religions.

This is why Muslims see nothing wrong with the invasions that resulted in the conversion of older faiths but react angrily to the crusades which were organised to protect the Christian faith. Muslims have the right to preach their religion and enforce it where possible because it is for the good of the infidels and if they resist it is rebellion against the one true god.

>>And God won't punish anyone unless they get his word ( islam ) and ignore it,,<<

Now with books, the radio and television everyone gets Allah's word. But the overwhelming majority still ignore it. From the Muslim's point of view Allah's words are clear, logical and easy to understand and despite this clarity if unbelievers refuse to convert it is because they are being rebellious against Allah, which is of course punishable here as well as the hereafter. Conclusion, the most merciful, most benevolent Allah is going to punish the vast majority of humanity with horrible tortures.

This is what you wrote in the original post in response to BA's Questions for Fatma "…but the holy book quran has no hate and when you read something that ask muslims to fight the non beleivers . i recommed that you read the whole story behind it , why did God say that? what was the story ?"

This was my response to you: "What the Koran contains are curses, imprecations and threats about horrible punishments for what is no crime at all, disbelief. ….The Koran never explains why disbelief in Allah is such a terrible crime…"

I did not give the verses then. Please read them now: 2:88, 2:89, 2:161, 4:46, 4:47, 2:65. Read them in context and reason they were revealed and give us conclusions.

Read the whole of Surah 9. Some of the verses stand alone for instance the verse about unbelievers being najis, this has nothing to do with any war, and because of it unbelievers are barred from the Mecca-Madina area to this day. If one has to read the whole story behind each sura, it means that the verses are wholly contextual and their importance is badly diluted.

And are we all to read the history written several generations after the revelations to understand that the hate verses aren't really hate verses after all and were only meant for something that happened 1400 years ago. If you start examining each and every sura this way you will find that a very large number of them have some context (Ibn Ishaq's sira is helpful in this). We then have very little of the Koran that is useful.

You must also remember that the Koran claims in several places that it is a clear book and is complete in itself (44:58, 5:15, 5:16, 2:1 and more). So your telling us to read the stories behind the aya to understand them goes against what the Koran tells us. The Koran is telling us that each ayat stands on its own or at least in the context of the verses that precede or follow it.

You have also not answered why Allah considers disbelief to be such a big crime deserving everlasting torture. No Muslim I have asked this question is able to answer it and tends to get very angry with me for asking. I hope you will be able to answer this simple question without anger.

>>. and words of love are in the beggining of every aya (part) in quran.. its in the top :) ( in the name of Allah. the most mercifull...etc)<<

This is not very different from claiming that since Islam means peace in Arabic therefore Islam is a peaceful religion. Repeating ad infinitum the words the most merciful and then threatening a few sentences later to burn, tear you apart, pour molten brass over you etc for merely not believing His word is not indicative of a merciful god. This particular god has mercy only on those who believe him, Muslims.

>> mercy is love my friend . and I don't wish you hell .. I wish you mercy.<<

I appreciate your wishing mercy on me. You also know that it is useless to plead for mercy for an unbeliever like me with Allah. Even the prophet was told not to pray for his dear departed parents who had been pagans (58:22). If mercy is love then Allah's understanding of it is very different from yours and mine. No loving being will curse, abuse and torture for merely not listening to Him.

>>and I don't see the lies or the hate or the bad in my religion as you said .. its not because i was born a muslim .. its because i choose to remain beeing a muslim .<<

That is true. Because if you saw all that you would no longer be a Muslim. We all rationlise whatever we do or believe in. Have you wondered why the large majority of people choose to remain in the religion they were born into despite hearing Allah's word unless forced against their will? Why is Allah's religion unacceptable to the large majority of mankind?

>>I do taste the sweetness of beeing a muslim 5 times aday when i pray , its the inner peace it brings me.. and yes my parents are the best.. and they are lucky because they are muslims.. :)<<

I am very happy for you!

>>and is sadams daughter thinks that he's great... well maybe he was a good father?<<

Maybe he was.

>> I hate the man but well he's dead and may allah forgive him ... again..

Maybe you should not hate him. Maybe his intentions were good but the results bad. Fatima, Allah does not accept intercession except from Muhammad. But maybe Allah will forgive after sometime as he died a Muslim.

>> Allah forgives whomever he want ..<<

You are wrong about that. He does not forgive, for sure, anyone who does not believe in Him. That is an unforgivable sin, no exceptions!! Allah has tied Himself up here. He has left Himself no choice in this matter!

Submitting....

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