"Armenian genocide ?" "Either it never happened or it was just a mass suicide . The Turks were in any case innocent."
Reader comment on item: A Critical Moment For Turkey
Submitted by Ianus (Poland), May 22, 2007 at 16:37
Deniz Tolga , wrote :
> Well we have to prove the massacre first,
And what is the official Turkish version as to what happened to c. 2 000 000 Armenians living before 1914 in Eastern Anatolia and not living soon afterwards ? This was a mass suicide , wasn't it ?
What is official Turkish version on the massacres commited during 1920 by the Kemalist hordes in the Turkish-Armenian war ? More suicides ?
> which does not seem to be possible with Armenian false documents.
Now you have to prove these documents (German and American first of all ) are false. Prove it ! The first evidence of the Armenian holocaust was in form of letters home written by German soldiers serving in Anatolia. Prove the Turkish allies at that time had anti-Turkish hallucinations !
> We have to assemble a group of historians (form Turkey,Armenia,Germany,England...whatever country availiable) with all the archives opened (which we agree but Armenians don't). We need to see what all ar chives say about that "massacre" (eg. Soviet archives,English,German,American etc.)
From what you say it is evident that as a true Turk a/ you despise history , b/ you're no historian and c/ you haven't a slightest idea of what history is all about . It's hard to believe history is not just a useful tool to promote a state-imposed self-glorification , isn't it ?
A bibliography on the Armenian holocaust would occupy a thick volume. Only a part of that literature is written in Armenian. Just reading that stuff would occupy you for the rest of your life. You don't have to open any archives -they are all accessible . What you want to open is your Turkish mind which is closed to reality wherever the reality clashes with your natiobal megalomaniac narcissim.
> For more information www.tallarmeniantale.com for our point of view. (So the answer seems to be NO)
We all know "your point of view". A Moslem never makes mistakes and never admits crimes. He blames the victims for his crimes. A Turk does this not only because he remains a Moslem in spite of the official fairy tale of "secularism". He's a jingoist par excellence. A nasty irrational mixture.
2) Kurds can decide what they want after stopping to kill babies in my country.
How about Turkish militarists stopping killing their babies and levelling their villages to the ground ?
> If you like Kurds so much you can give them some land from your own country,
Why ? They have their own country . You Turks occupy and degrade it . The Kurds are not worth being free ?
> that's OK with me. We don't care about who is Kurd or who is Turk ,
A lie ! All in your country must be Turks ! This is what Gazi Mustafa Kemal - one of the greatest mass murderers of the 20th century - ordered you to do . You call the Kurds "mountain Turks" and make them forget their language , culture , traditions in the name of a mad ideology you yourselves are forbidden under severe punishments to critize . How many Kurds have the Ancara militarists exterminated ever since the Pan-Turks used them to help them get rid of the Armenians ?
> all we care is how they serve their country.
Your country is a huge prison with the militarists as prison guards and big profiteers . No freedom of speech , no criticism allowed , rabid jingoism , rabid anti-Americanism and growing anti-Semitism . Anyone who dares stand up and tell a few bitter truths in your face is intimidated , persecuted and killed . And teh killers , persecutors and gangsters are heroes in Turkey because they allegedly thus "serve their country".
> If anyone wants a piece of our land he/she is our enemy.
Typical Turkish double talk ! If anyone wants justice from Turkey , he's Turkey's enemy . You robbed and stole all the lands you occupy at present and now you're talking about "serving the country" and its "sacred' integrity. "Vatan" is no Turkish words. The Turks have never had any 'vatan'.
> (As you would think the same way for your country, this is our basic right to defend ourselves and our country) Which leads us to answer--- NO! (economic improvements and better life standards are of course will be done when the PKK terror ends)
Nothing of the sort will be done . What you want and have been after ever since Gazi Kemal Pasha rebelled against the caliph is Turkification of all - and first of all of the Kurds. And in Turkish history "Turkification" never happened without "genocide". Simply because being a Turk was always perceived as humiliating and degrading culturally. Stop terrorizing and brain-washing children into "Turkishness" and we'll see how many "Turks" will be left in Turkey after a few generations.
> But we keep our rights to interfere if the time comes, naturally. (I call it naturally because if US troops come from miles and miles away to make adjustments in middle east that means we have every right to make OUR adjustments whether you agree or not.) Soooo ----> NO is the answer for now.
The sooner you Turks show your true colours the better. You're natural enemies of the West - as you have always been and will be as long as you remain Moslems and Turks. No country bordering on you has ever lived in peace with you . It's impossible . And of course the Turks were NEVER to blame! The guilt was ALWAYS on the other side. The official Turkish explanation of ALL problems Turkey provokes. Show me a single conflict in which Turkey was involved where Turkey admitted its guilt ? Forlorn hope ! You'll sooner find a unicorn than such a case.
> (USA against IRAN? C'mon...unlike Vietnam,Afghanistan or Iraq they have a real army. And USA fighting a real army alone...does not seem possible for now)
This is the way Hitler thought in December 1941 declaring war on America.
It would be worthwhile to write parallel lives of these two mass murderers - Ghazi Musfata Kemal Pasha , Father of the Turks and Fuehrer Adolf Hitler , Father of the Germans.
> 4)Islamic education? I got a secular education as most people here , unlike you i guess.
Whatever you mean by "secular" you Turks are 99% Moslems. Or again the stats are another anti-Turkish "lie"?
> We only have islamic schools for educating our Imams who work in mosques(equal to Priest) We can't let some radical sobs manipulate such a sensitive subject on our children. So we educate our own. Unlike many other "civilized" western country we have secularism in our constitution.
Secular on paper. Islamic at heart . Useful appearences . Harsh realities.
> (France was the only one in EU as i know). So as long as your governments stop supporting religious fanatics(like Fettullah Gülen in USA or major islamic players against Turkey who reside in Germany) for their political advantages we don't have a problem with any of the religions.
You have only one religion. Incidentally, there are so many sects and divisions within that religion . In case of a conflict with you a civil war might be initiated within the ummah. Let's give freedom to Turkish shi'a and egg the yazids against the sunnis and both against pseudo-secularists !
> But of course we are against radical ideology of any sort.
Except Turkish fascism which is so moderate and modern that it is even loved in the west and the US.
> 5) For the last question. I support the army in Cyprus since when we left the island, Greek Cypriots sadly tried to kill our people there which is a solid fact(sorry).
Again an official Turkish fairy tale ! Blaming the victim for the crime perpetrated against the very same victim. A Turk says "They tried to kill" to make people forget "We Turks killed".
> I don't think we have so much to discuss on this.
Truly , a discussion with a Turk is like a discussion with a little sultan. Unless you are ready to praise his narcistic megalomaniac super-ego , you have nothing to talk with him about . You're "a liar" , "an extremist" , "a malicious Turkophobe" (and/or "Islamophobe") and terror will be used against you - the surest way of Turkish-style discussion .
Neo-Ottomans of today may be proud of their "secularism". Rationalism has never dwelt in this cradle of genocide and janissarism.
> Half of the island belongs to Turks there.
It is occupied by the Turkish (not Turkish-Cypriot ) army , is subsidized by Anacara which is the only country which has acknolwedged this pseudo-state created by Ancara and colonized by Anatolians who now wear a mask of being "Cypriot Turks". Most real Cypriots of Turkish origin have left the island after 1974 as after living for almost a century under British rule they were fed up with the barbarity , backwardness and primitivism and social and economic degradation that ensued th colonization of Northern Cyprus by the Anatolians.
> Why do you want to make them live together anyways? You want Turkey to be seperated into small factions, you wanted to seperate many countries in europe(mostly you successed) but now you force Turks and Greeks to live together. I wonder whyyyyy? (i know the answer...and you too....let's don't lie to each other)
Who wants that ? Turks should come back to where they belong -the steppes of Central Asia from which the Oghuz tribes invaded Asia Minor.
> This is the last "No!" for your questions...For more of those answers please continue pushing your luck.
You call this "answers" ? I'd prefer to call them "secular suras" or "pious paralogisms", "jingoistic Turkish monologues".
> So if you stop hating us(Turks) and be a little more objective,
The former necessarily follows from the latter . Anyone who knows you Turks a little better , can't but feel sick . It has always been so . Look at Voltaire !
> you can see that all we want is what you want for your own country.
It is a non-sequitur.
> We want peace,justice and equalty.
There is a huge semantic trap here . We and Turks/Moslems use the same words but we do mean definetly different things.
> I strongly advise you to listen our part of story in every topic you wrote above.
I strongly recommend you to choose from the following alternative : either you're a Turkish nationalist or you're a rational human being. You can't be both .
> I advise you to be like your name and leave the blind hatred aside.
I advise you to be critical for a momemt . What you don't want the world to know is that you Turks in all respects resemble and continue the basic ways of your Ottoman forefathers . All this "asrilik" (modernization) is just a hijab put on your ugly nomadic-Islamic face . A good trick to mislead the West until your time comes to hit and plunder this West you hate just like your national anthem (stanza 4) teaches you to do .
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