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To Ianus (Poland) : liberation of Constantinope from the Latin occupation

Reader comment on item: A Critical Moment For Turkey
in response to reader comment: "Fetih bayram" - Islamists and secularists march together to celebrate the 554th anniversary of the "liberation" of Constantinope from the Greek occupation

Submitted by faruk (Turkey), Sep 4, 2012 at 20:17

"They will celebrate together the greatest and most expensive festivity in the city : "Fetih Bayram" - the joyous commemoration of the "liberation" of the Turkish capital city from foreign occupation in 1453 . Janissaries , sipahis , akindjis , plenty of Ottoman (identical with today'sTurkish ) flags and symbols will be there to gaze at and enjoy . As usually on this day the feeling of national unity , old greatness and unselfish solidarity will overwhelm the nation."

It is in Türkish " Fetih Bayramı" not "Fetih Bayram" ( Celebration of Conquest" . And it is not liberation from foreign occupation. It is conquest of Konstantiniyye from East Roman Empire by Fatih Sultan Mehmet ( Mehmet II, Mehmet the Conqueror )

"To an educated European the 29th of May 1453 seems to be one of the most tragic dates in modern history. Europe's spiritual capital , the stronghold of Christianity for more than 1000 years was violently destroyed , its population butchered or enslaved , the biggest Cjhrsitian church of the time desacrated and then changed into a mosque . This cataclysmic event was received with horror across the continent . Everyone knew that having conquered the former Eastern Roman Empire , the Turks would turn westwards to impose their yoke upon the rest of Europe. And albeit they eventually failed in the process and themselves survived the reaction they had provoked by a miracle, the Turks have never forgotten their most prestigious victory of 1453. In enlightened and philhellenic Europe the massacres of the 29th of May 1453 would be commemorated as a day of mourning ."

I will not respond to the paragraph by Ianus. I will just quote from wikipedia. You , readers would decide.

Latin Empire in Konstantiniyye between 1204 and 1262. ( Until 1930 this form is used formally by Ottoman Empire and Turkey).

"By the next day the Doge and the leading Franks were installed in the Great Palace, and the city was given over to pillage for three days.

The great historian of the Crusades, Sir Steven Runciman, wrote that the sack of Constantinople is "unparalleled in history".

"For nine centuries," he goes on, "the great city had been the capital of Christian civilisation. It was filled with works of art that had survived from ancient Greece and with the masterpieces of its own exquisite craftsmen. The Venetians, wherever they could, seized treasures and carried them off. But the Frenchmen and Flemings were filled with a lust for destruction: They rushed in a howling mob down the streets and through the houses, snatching up everything that glittered and destroying whatever they could not carry, pausing only to murder or to rape, or to break open the wine-cellars. Neither monasteries nor churches nor libraries were spared. In St Sophia itself, drunken soldiers could be seen tearing down the silken hangings and pulling the silver iconostasis to pieces, while sacred books and icons were trampled under foot. While they drank from the altar-vessels, a prostitute sang a ribald French song on the Patriarch's throne. Nuns were ravished in their convents. Palaces and hovels alike were wrecked. Wounded women and children lay dying in the streets. For three days the ghastly scenes continued until the huge and beautiful city was a shambles. Even after order was restored, citizens were tortured to make them reveal treasures they had hidden.

For the next half-century, Constantinople was the seat of the Latin Empire. The Byzantine nobility were scattered "

About population:

"The population was rising (estimates for Constantinople in the 12th century vary from some 100,000 to 500,000), and towns and cities across the realm flourished"

"in 1262 When Michael VIII captured the city, its population was 35,000 people,"

"In 1453, when the Ottoman Turks captured the city, it contained approximately 50,000 people."

So Latins have 500.000 , Ottomans have 50.000 people to rape, to torture, to kill. What a shock !

Latins were Christians ( Crusaders : fighters for Christianity. They invaded , destroyed a Christian city where they come to protect against Muslims ! What a shock.) They liberated Constantinople !

"Europe's spiritual capital , the stronghold of Christianity for more than 1000 years was violently destroyed , its population butchered or enslaved , the biggest Cjhrsitian church of the time desacrated and then changed into a mosque"

Ottomans were Muslims. Ianus you do not mind what your christian brothers did this beatiful city, but when Muslims did same thing you do not approve. At that time there was war everywhere. It was normal. Roman called all other people including europians barbarian. They fought with Jewishs , egyptian, iranians. But also they fought with germans , gauls, frenks, and greeks. They invaded Greece, Anatolia. They destroyed all Greek city states. At that time Greece was not united. There were city states. Roman empire invaded all europe including Greece . They slaved Greeks, germans, gauls. Kontantiniyye was never a Greek city . It was a Roman city. Byzantium was a Roman Empire . They never called themselves Byzantium. This names is given by europians hundreds years later. Mehmet II was referred himself as a Roman Empire when he conquered capital of East Roman Empire. That is why Ottomans always called Christians in Anatolia Rum ( from Roman). When europians called ottomans Türkish State, other muslims states called Ottomans as Sultan of Roman Land ( Rum Sultanı ) So Ottomans did not took Konstantiniyye form Greeks , took from Romans. Unlike europian way, turkish did not destroy the land they moved in. They embraced local culture. That is why until 1930 İstanbul is formally called Konstantiniyye ( just Turkish pronouncation) Today names of many cities is kept . Like Edirne comes from Adrianapolis

It is normal when a people is proud for victories of his ancestors and ashamed for failure of his ancestors. Battles have a winner and loser. One side is proud , one side is sorry. Your victory is my lose. If you accept that you can go on your life. As a Turk I am proud that Konstantiniyye is conquered in 1453. And I am shamed for the defeat in Vienna. You say Ottoman made massacre in Konstanniyye What do you think when Roman Empire or Crusaders invaded a muslim city. What about Jerusalem. Crusaders liberated the city from muslims and murdered all residents muslim and christians. When Selahattin conquered the city, he allowed them to leave with their goods.

Submitting....

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