1 readers online now  |  69 million page views

Humbled Infidel Gets an Explanation From Honourable Tariq!

Reader comment on item: What Jewish Ties to Jerusalem?
in response to reader comment: Humbled Infidel Requests Explanation From Honourable Tariq

Submitted by tariq (Pakistan), Aug 3, 2006 at 04:06

"I understand that as a Muslim you are not required to respond with proof or real information to Infidel questions or statements and of course Muslims are never wrong."

Apparently u are one of those ppl who have been fed so many lies, distortions, and fake testimonies that u have have begun to think that each and every muslim(all 1.6 b) think and work exactly the same way; they all blindly follow their religions.

many christians are like that. they say "the Quran is wrong cuz it disagrees with the bible" or "jesus was crucified because the bible says so" or "the Quran is wrong cuz the bible is right, the bible is right because the Quran is wrong"

i have read such arguments. i chat on paltalk. when i have a non hostile discusion such as the one i am having here, i get these type of responses. they say that christians are always right.

try to understand that not everybody in this world really stops to ponder y they should follow their religion. most ppl are like that; they are not very learned about their religion and therefore not able to answer objections by followers of other religions.

but i am not like that. im a skeptic. i doubt everything. and if it wasnt for this parlicular very learned islamic scholar, i MAY have been an atheist right now.

"And that is why, when you responded to my comment, you made some assertions, but of course provided no proof."

if u have read my previous comments, u'll know that i can provide quite convincing arguments. u wrote ur comment on june 27 mine was up on aug 1, so i just wanted to know whether u are monitoring this post or not. now that i have ur attention, ill give u an explanation.

"Therefore should you allow yourself to condescend to my level and respond, please tell me how the earth can be a circle and not a sphere?"

u have a CD any where near? take a look at it.

is it a circle? yes?

is it flat? yes? Oh my GOd! What a Miracle!!

"Secondly, how do you explain Aya 18:86, the Blessed Qur'an translated by J.M. Rodwell.

Blessed Qur'an: Aya 18:86 Until when he reached the setting of the sun, he found it to set in a miry fount; and hard by he found a people."

there is no such thing as a translation of the Quran. its an interepretation. also y do u quote rodwell? hes not exactly famous for being accurate.

"And now from copy of Holy Qur'an from Internet:

Aya 18:86 Until, when he reached the setting of the sun, he found it set in a spring of murky water: Near it he found a People: We said: "O Zul-qarnain! (thou hast authority,) either to punish them, or to treat them with kindness.""

this is an interpretation of abdullah yousef ali. has some mistakes in it, but most parts are very accurate.

Before i give an explanation, a couple of bible verses:

Are they not on the other side Jordan, by the way where the sun goeth down, in the land of the Canaanites, which dwell in the champaign over against Gilgal, beside the plains of Moreh? (Deuteronomy 11:30)

And there appeared a great wonder in heaven; a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars (Revelation 12:1)

Now lets look at the verses in CONTEXT,(which im sure u never did):

[018:084] Verily We established his power on earth, and We gave him the ways and the means to all ends.

[018:085] One (such) way he followed,

[018:086] Until, when he reached the setting of the sun, he found it set in a spring of murky water: Near it he found a People: We said: "O Zul-qarnain! (thou hast authority,) either to punish them, or to treat them with kindness."

[018:087] He said: "Whoever doth wrong, him shall we punish; then shall he be sent back to his Lord; and He will punish him with a punishment unheard-of (before).

[018:088] "But whoever believes, and works righteousness,- he shall have a goodly reward, and easy will be his task as We order it by our Command."

[018:089] Then followed he (another) way,

[018:090] Until, when he came to the rising of the sun, he found it rising on a people for whom We had provided no covering protection against the sun.

the above is a yousef ali translation(its understood that we mean interpretation)

note the verses:

"Until, when he reached the setting of the sun, he found it set"

and

018:089] Then followed he (another) way,

[018:090] Until, when he came to the rising of the sun, he found it rising

now i will quote u quoting me:

"Please read the above AYA's and THINK! THINK HARD!'.

so wot do u think?

is it possible? can u see a sunset and at the same time see a surise at a different place on a flat earth?

ofcourse u cant, not on a flat earth but a SPHERE. the Quran tells us of a story of dhulqarnain who goes to a certain place and there he sees the sun setting in water. then he follows another way and sees the sun rising. flat earth any1?

if the earth was flat, then the sun would be 'under' the earth. and their would be no sunrise for quite sometime. in that case the Quran would have to see that dhulqarnain waited for sometime for the sun to come up. it wouldnt see he TRAVELLED. this implies that the 'setting of the sun' is ACTUALLY A PLACE and not JUST TIME. indeed another meaning of the word maghrib(the arabic word used in this verse) is west.

but ofcourse this also means that the quran speaks of the time of sunset as well. the word translated as 'reached' is balagha

heres another usage of this word:

Then, when (the son) reached (balagha) (the age of) (serious) work with him, he said: "O my son! I see in vision that I offer thee in sacrifice: Now see what is thy view!" (The son) said: "O my father! Do as thou art commanded: thou will find me, if God so wills one practising Patience and Constancy!" (37:102)

tell me, how many steps do u take to become 10 years older?

when it says 'he reached' it denotes time, and 'the setting of the sun' is a western place that he reached.

now this leaves me with one problem; "he found it set in a spring of murky water"

And heres the solution:

notice that it says he found it. in english this gives the false impression that dhulqarnain really found the sun in the water. but in arabic, it show his point of view.

it tells us what HE saw. strange isnt it that God should tell us an event of history, and suddently change its tone to tell us wot the other person saw and not wot happened. notice that the quran tells us of an event as if it is an observer, but wen it comes to sun set, suddenly tells us wot dhulqarnain saw, and not wot happened.(according to M Asad, a well known scholar on islam, 'he found' can also be translated as he saw, or it appeared to him)

now lets look at some detailed meanings of this verse:

"He probably reached shore of the ocean and saw it like that because there was but water at the furthest of his sight that's why He says "he found it set" and does not say "it sets"."

(Al-Baidawi, Anwar-ut-Tanzil wa Asrar-ut-Taw'il)

""he found it set in a spring of murky water" means he saw the sun according to his vision setting in the ocean and this is the same with everyone ending to the shore seeing as if the sun sets inside it (i.e. the ocean)."

(Tafsir Ibn Kathir)

Do a yahoo search for tafseers, ibn kathirs tafseer should not be difficult to find. and remember that ibn katheer was born in 701 AH, back wen they thought that the earth is flat.

I'll be waiting for your reply.

Submitting....

Note: Opinions expressed in comments are those of the authors alone and not necessarily those of Daniel Pipes. Original writing only, please. Comments are screened and in some cases edited before posting. Reasoned disagreement is welcome but not comments that are scurrilous, off-topic, commercial, disparaging religions, or otherwise inappropriate. For complete regulations, see the "Guidelines for Reader Comments".

Comment on this item

Mark my comment as a response to Humbled Infidel Gets an Explanation From Honourable Tariq! by tariq

Email me if someone replies to my comment

Note: Opinions expressed in comments are those of the authors alone and not necessarily those of Daniel Pipes. Original writing only, please. Comments are screened and in some cases edited before posting. Reasoned disagreement is welcome but not comments that are scurrilous, off-topic, commercial, disparaging religions, or otherwise inappropriate. For complete regulations, see the "Guidelines for Reader Comments".

See recent outstanding comments.

Follow Daniel Pipes

Facebook   Twitter   RSS   Join Mailing List
eXTReMe Tracker

All materials by Daniel Pipes on this site: © 1968-2020 Daniel Pipes. daniel.pipes@gmail.com and @DanielPipes

Support Daniel Pipes' work with a tax-deductible donation to the Middle East Forum.Daniel J. Pipes

(The MEF is a publicly supported, nonprofit organization under section 501(c)3 of the Internal Revenue Code.

Contributions are tax deductible to the full extent allowed by law. Tax-ID 23-774-9796, approved Apr. 27, 1998.

For more information, view our IRS letter of determination.)