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Honourable Tariq's Explanation Too Complicated for Infidel to Understand

Reader comment on item: What Jewish Ties to Jerusalem?
in response to reader comment: Honourable Tariq's Explanation Leaves Infidel With Headache

Submitted by tariq (Pakistan), Aug 5, 2006 at 03:39

"Thank you for your response. You state that I'm "one of those ppl who have been fed so many lies, distortions, and fake testimonies"."

i said APPARENTLY u are one of those ppl...

Until 9/11/01, I knew nothing about Islam. After 9/11/01, I ordered a copy of the Qur'an, determined to learn about Islam by reading Muslim books and not listening to other people's opinions. After reading my first copy, I was shocked at the content, so I ordered another Qur'an by another author from a Muslim Society that was advertising free Qur'an.

You still dont know anything about the religion of peace(islam). u say u were shocked at the content. wot exactly shocked u? and whose translation were u reading? and which muslim society is this?

"After reading the second Qur'an, I downloaded a copy of the Qur'an from the Internet, in fact, I ordered it from a Muslim website, and I read it as well."

u dont order a quran online, its available for free. also which translations have u been reading? the one u refered to in the previous comment was by, i think palmer or rodwell.

"I also downloaded the Sunnah from a Muslim website and read all 93 chapters. Even that was not enough,"

all 93 chapters? wot chapters? wot is this that u are reading? from where did u download it? there are no 93 chapters in sahih bukhari or muslim.

"for I purchased and read over six different books about Islam, including, "Why I Am Not a Muslim", by Ibn Warraq. You probably heard about Warraq, he was raised as a Muslim, became a professor in the US and now has written several books about Islam."

u are a typical kafir then. u have been fed, lies distortions and fake testimonies by kafirs like ibn warraq. the kafir logic never ceases to amaze me. when u want to learn something about islam, u look wot the kafirs say. wen u want to learn christianity, u read books written by christians. y the double standards? enemies of islam like warraq abdussaleeb and craig winn do nothing but lie, distort and quote out of context to make the religion of peace look bad. and 'intelligent' people read their books and consider themselves scholars of islam. how about looking at wot MUSLIMS have to say? how about seeing OUR side of the story? o i forgot, muslims are always wrong.

"Nobody has fed me anything, including lies, distortions, and fake testimonies. Everything I know about Islam, I learned by reading."

reading ibn warraq. read books by muslim authors. or read books against christianity. dont be a hypocrite.

this is wot kuffar do: they read book on islam written by its enemies, and read books on christianity written by its apologists.

u read warraq, a former muslims. so if u are not a hypocrite, but a christian, read the book MIsquoting Jesus writen by Bart D. Ehrman a former christian SCHOLAR unlike warraq, who was not even 1% of a scholar.

Bart was an Evangelical christian who became agnostic after reading the Greek manuscripts upon which the translations of the bible are based. he found it to be tampered by the christian church. another book he wrote is The Orthodox Corruption of Scripture: The Effect of Early Christological Controversies on the Text of the New Testament. so read them, and know that the bibles are corrupted.

"Now I will address some of your points."

some not all

"Isaiah wrote that, 40:22 He sits enthroned above the circle of the earth. Nothing in the Bible indicates that anyone would have thought that the earth was like a CD, thus your reference is rather foolish."

"In them [the heavens], a tent is fixed for the sun, who comes out like a bridegroom from his wedding canopy, rejoicing like a strong man to run his race. His rising is at one end of the heavens, his circuit touches their farthest ends; and nothing is hidden from his heat (Psalm 19:4-6)."

it says NOTHING is hidden from its heat. that is only possible if the earth is flat. on the round earth the half almost half of the area of earth will have darkness.

Again, the devil took him to a very high mountain, and showed him all the kingdoms of the world and the glory of them;(mathew 4:8)

all the kingdoms? how can u see the kingdoms at the other side of the planet?

So the bible teaches that the earth is flat and round like a disc. no wonder the church persecuted galileo or whatever his name.

"Why don't we consider Muhammad's(PBUH) description: Hazrat Abdullah Muslem asked Muhammad(PBUH): "Ya Rasul Allah! Please tell us, on what does this vast earth stand?" Muhammad(PBUH) replied: "Allah has placed this seven-layered, huge earth on the horn of a cow. This cow has four thousand such horns, and the distance from one horn to another is a journey of five hundred years. This gigantic cow is standing on the back of a giant fish. This fish is floating on glutinous water; the depth of this water is the distance of a journey of forty years. The glutinous water is resting on floating air. This air or atmosphere is resting on darkness. The darkness rests upon the Hell and that Hell is placed on a massive stone. This massive stone is resting on the head of an enormous Farishta (angel); the Farishta is standing on wind and the wind is resting on the empty world of Allah's Kudrat (glory)."

Point number 1:

you have yet to respond to these verses:

Are they not on the other side Jordan, by the way where the sun goeth down, in the land of the Canaanites, which dwell in the champaign over against Gilgal, beside the plains of Moreh? (Deuteronomy 11:30)

And there appeared a great wonder in heaven; a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars (Revelation 12:1)

Point number 2:

u didnt refute my argument. i proved to u that the Quran does not say that the sun goes down in water. i explained it to u in detail bit by bit. i even quoted the tafsiir. u have yet to respond to my arguments. i say the arabic dont make the error, in response u give me a HADITH.

the quran does not say that the sun goes down in murky water, heres my previous explanation. this time i will highlight the important parts:

if the earth was flat, then the sun would be 'under' the earth. and their would be no sunrise for quite sometime. in that case the Quran would have to see that dhulqarnain waited for sometime for the sun to come up. it wouldnt see he TRAVELLED. this implies that the 'setting of the sun' is ACTUALLY A PLACE and not JUST TIME. indeed another meaning of the word maghrib(the arabic word used in this verse) is west.

but ofcourse this also means that the quran speaks of the time of sunset as well. the word translated as 'reached' is balagha

heres another usage of this word:

Then, when (the son) reached (balagha) (the age of) (serious) work with him, he said: "O my son! I see in vision that I offer thee in sacrifice: Now see what is thy view!" (The son) said: "O my father! Do as thou art commanded: thou will find me, if God so wills one practising Patience and Constancy!" (37:102)

tell me, how many steps do u take to become 10 years older?

when it says 'he reached' it denotes time, and 'the setting of the sun' is a western place that he reached.

now this leaves me with one problem; "he found it set in a spring of murky water"

And heres the solution:

notice that it says he found it. in english this gives the false impression that dhulqarnain really found the sun in the water. but in arabic, it show his point of view.

it tells us what HE saw. strange isnt it that God should tell us an event of history, and suddently change its tone to tell us wot the other person saw and not wot happened. notice that the quran tells us of an event as if it is an observer, but wen it comes to sun set, suddenly tells us wot dhulqarnain saw, and not wot happened.(according to M Asad, a well known scholar on islam, 'he found' can also be translated as he saw, or it appeared to him)

point number 3:

u are now quoting a hadith not Quran. the Quran is perfect. no such errors. but the hadith are not 100% perfect. many have been tempered with just like the bible. so these errors are bound to be occur..

i challenge to find such mistakes in the Quran

"You asked me the following question, is it possible? can u see a sunset and at the same time see a sunrise at a different place on a flat earth? My answer is yes, provided that the seven-layered, huge earth is on the horn of a cow, according to Muhammad(PBUH). "

on a flat earth u cant as the sun would be under the earth. also u did not cite the hadith source. where did u get it from? sahih bukhari? Muslims? sunan abu daud?

"In closing I would like to commend you for being able to take an Aya stating that the sun sets in a "spring of murky water" or a "miry fount" and interpreting it to mean that the sun circles the earth which is also incorrect as the revolving earth causes the sun rise and sun set."

wen did i say that the sun circles the earth? plz read my previous comments again. i said it APPEARS TO HIM didnt u read my comments?

Instead of responding to Infidel's difficult questions by twisting and stretching meanings for Ayas, just tell us, "we are taking it out of context", as no one can argue against that.

twisting the meaning? wheres ur proof? u say i twist meanings therefore i twist meaning. is that ur proof?


Note: Opinions expressed in comments are those of the authors alone and not necessarily those of Daniel Pipes. Original writing only, please. Comments are screened and in some cases edited before posting. Reasoned disagreement is welcome but not comments that are scurrilous, off-topic, commercial, disparaging religions, or otherwise inappropriate. For complete regulations, see the "Guidelines for Reader Comments".

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Reader comments (111) on this item

Title Commenter Date Thread
The Jewish heart and mind is eternally connected to Jerusalem and Israel for thousands of years [430 words]YJ DraimanMay 15, 2015 14:59223374
1Jerusalem! [29 words]IreneJan 20, 2009 10:08148510
F I N A L W O R D ! ! [204 words]Salah al-Din Yusuf ibn AyyubJul 18, 2008 02:33135353
Islam should be protected [19 words]AhmedApr 14, 2007 23:4689289
Us Versus Them [532 words]darkflighter100Mar 24, 2007 22:5287892
2Jerusalem [27 words]AlexanderOct 11, 2006 16:3459888
1God gave Jerusalem to the jews [92 words]Stephen PhillipsOct 12, 2006 19:0959888
Alexander [15 words]Ibrahim AliOct 13, 2006 06:3259888
Stephen Phillips [11 words]Ibrahim AliOct 14, 2006 16:3759888
Ibrahim Ali [19 words]AlexanderOct 15, 2006 07:4759888
Muslims simply covet Jerusalem. They have no attachment to it [38 words]Stephen PhillipsOct 15, 2006 19:4759888
JEWISH TEMPLE IN JERUSALEM MENTIONED IN qURAN [137 words]xanga.com/ShlomoZalmanOct 7, 2009 11:1659888
JEWISH TEMPLE IN JERUSALEM MENTIONED IN qURAN [17 words]xanga.com/ShlomoZalmanOct 7, 2009 11:1959888
JEWISH scriptures, mitzvot & israel validated in koran [64 words]xanga.com/ShlomoZalmanOct 7, 2009 11:2759888
jerusalem if i forget you my right hand forget me!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! [125 words]ashumarApr 22, 2010 09:5859888
about your comment [57 words]Michael ROct 13, 2010 10:4959888
Islam-an evolving religion [115 words]DallasJul 5, 2006 10:4348920
Jerusalem is a Jewish city [112 words]Frederick BainhauerJul 3, 2006 23:0248819
1If Jerusalem belongs to Muslims , then Mecca belongs to Jews [34 words]John ChristianJul 2, 2006 01:1148705
A very narrow minded opinion John [135 words]AudreyJun 7, 2007 22:1548705
Sorry, but you have your history wrong [258 words]KevinAug 19, 2007 11:2348705
Whose land? [169 words]H LaFeverSep 20, 2007 19:0648705
so biased [42 words]ConcernedtothismyfriendMay 24, 2008 20:0548705
Dream to take the world of infidels yet ISRAEL is standing tall and straight! [290 words]ChinamanApr 16, 2010 09:3048705
Truth in the Arab World [232 words]Peter IrwinJun 29, 2006 16:0548449
Follow-up to my previous comment [297 words]Peter IrwinJun 30, 2006 06:5048449
Isn't some of this related to their Religion? [219 words]J.S.Jun 27, 2006 16:0048273
Whole Civilised World stands with Israel : Go ahead and rescue our Brother [310 words]Rahul KhannaJun 26, 2006 23:2448212
Jewish vs. Arab/Muslim claims to Jerusalem [57 words]MosheJun 24, 2006 18:2848120
JEWS VS ARABS [17 words]KevinMar 21, 2007 18:4248120
We should see the reality in our face [120 words]GuestJul 8, 2008 12:4248120
ALLLAH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! [11 words]jalaalJan 7, 2009 10:0048120
Jerusalem or Jerushalom!! the war between the gods [406 words]HarrakJun 24, 2006 02:0248105
Harrak, you have to try a little harder! [544 words]MosheJun 25, 2006 05:5548105
History through the Bible. [191 words]YovenJun 26, 2006 10:5548105
Trying Harder..uh! [291 words]HarrakJun 26, 2006 11:0548105
Harrak, Bible's Flat Earth Theroy [167 words]InfidelJun 27, 2006 01:0748105
Harrak, we are back to square 1. [127 words]MosheJun 27, 2006 04:2748105
Jerusalem is for Jews and Christains [166 words]AlexJun 27, 2006 12:5648105
alex [105 words]ahmad zahireJun 27, 2006 23:1648105
Ah, Mad Harraknophobia! [333 words]Sword of Islam & The Babies of BeslanJun 28, 2006 21:1548105
Sword of Islam & The Babies of Beslan [184 words]ahmad zafireJun 30, 2006 06:3548105
Amen, Moshe! [352 words]EBJun 30, 2006 09:3548105
Don't stop Israel! [39 words]PDMJul 3, 2006 18:3348105
Patriotim 1 Attn: Swords and Moshe [262 words]HARRAKJul 4, 2006 00:1848105
Harrak, your ignorant comments are indeed below the mark. [39 words]MosheJul 5, 2006 10:5248105
Moshe :) [18 words]true believerJul 6, 2006 11:2948105
take it easy Mishmish, we are just learning from each other [12 words]HarrakJul 6, 2006 15:5448105
to infidel: Bible, Quran and the flat earth [67 words]tariqAug 1, 2006 14:4348105
Humbled Infidel Requests Explanation From Honourable Tariq [191 words]InfidelAug 1, 2006 20:0848105
Humbled Infidel Gets an Explanation From Honourable Tariq! [1375 words]tariqAug 3, 2006 04:0648105
Honourable Tariq's Explanation Leaves Infidel With Headache [537 words]InfidelAug 4, 2006 01:1048105
Honourable Tariq's Explanation Too Complicated for Infidel to Understand [1704 words]tariqAug 5, 2006 03:3948105
Holy Qur'an, Book of Scientific Information [215 words]InfidelAug 6, 2006 11:3648105
Sarcastic Infidel has no answers [1272 words]tariqAug 7, 2006 05:0648105
Please Explain [386 words]InfidelAug 7, 2006 23:4848105
Saying that Jerusalem doesn't belong to the jews is like saying that Germany doesn't belong to the Germans [202 words]Stephen PhillipsOct 12, 2006 19:3148105
re: four different evidences that quran proves earths' roundness [87 words]FaroukFeb 9, 2007 05:0048105
to Farouk [90 words]tariqFeb 14, 2007 08:0948105
No one is to blame... [275 words]TheBladeofFateJun 16, 2009 02:4548105
The problem with our line of defense.... [201 words]Arvind MadhavanJun 24, 2006 01:3748102
Judeo-Christian Islam (makes Jewish history in Jerusalem part of Islam) [248 words]HarrakJun 23, 2006 15:5748094
Judeo Christian culture [380 words]true believerJun 28, 2006 08:4348094
now we are getting somewhere (true believer) [302 words]ahmad zafireJun 28, 2006 23:2048094
Judeo-Christian Hypo [306 words]HarrakJun 29, 2006 00:2248094
Good job, Harrak! [44 words]MosheJun 30, 2006 04:2448094
Ahmad Zafire, for the sake of accuracy..... [201 words]MosheJun 30, 2006 05:2048094
re Judeo Christian Hypo [644 words]true believerJun 30, 2006 09:5048094
Not yer Ahmed :) [187 words]true believerJun 30, 2006 11:0048094
true believer [216 words]ahmad zafireJun 30, 2006 23:1448094
facts for you, Ahmed [999 words]true believerJul 3, 2006 11:3748094
Jewish claim to Jerusalem... ! [400 words]RonnieJun 22, 2006 21:2248065
Tomb of Avshalom [28 words]Josephine BaconSep 16, 2008 06:1748065
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The Islamic Denial of Jewish History [294 words]Kenneth Hart GreenJun 22, 2006 13:3448049
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Jerusalem not unique [230 words]Srini VaradarajanJun 21, 2006 12:1048002
Well, it is not only that Jerusalem is not mentioned in the Koran. [43 words]Alain Jean-MairetJun 22, 2006 02:4848002
worldviews matter [182 words]DarrenJun 21, 2006 11:1847998
Isn't denial of the Jewish Temple in Jerusalem against the Quran? [188 words]anonymousJun 21, 2006 11:0647995
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Truth and Muslim History [398 words]tianxiangJun 22, 2006 17:0847995
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how Arabs convince themselves [703 words]
w/response from Daniel Pipes
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Typical of muslims.... [44 words]Arvind MadhavanJun 21, 2006 04:1147981
Jerusalem, the burdensome stone [108 words]RichardJun 20, 2006 22:3447976
What Jewish Ties to Jerusalem? [44 words]steven LJun 20, 2006 20:3747970
Revisionist history on Google Maps regarding Jerusalem (an update) [11 words]Joe ExampleJun 20, 2006 20:1947969
Revisionist history on Google Maps regarding Jerusalem [121 words]Joe ExampleJun 20, 2006 20:1447967
Arab Ties to Jerusalem [37 words]Dave GibsonJun 20, 2006 19:3847965
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repeating pattern [47 words]Gamaliel IsaacJun 20, 2006 17:4247958
Giving away Jerusalem-You are kidding! [118 words]KJun 20, 2006 17:3047955
interesting... [663 words]ahmad zafireJun 20, 2006 17:0947954
More To Be Said [182 words]Yisrael MedadJun 20, 2006 15:0947948
WHAT YOU LEFT OUT ! [56 words]HARRY STILLMANJun 21, 2006 00:3747948
Two can play at that game [71 words]David W. LincolnJun 20, 2006 14:4247945
It was to be expected [95 words]Yale ZussmanJun 20, 2006 14:3047944
Just asking [97 words]anonymousJun 20, 2006 14:1747943
Not properly asked [36 words]HarrakJun 20, 2006 21:3947943
Yes, Harrak... [24 words]Arvind MadhavanJun 22, 2006 00:0747943
ysd, we agree [33 words]HarrakJun 22, 2006 21:1847943
So glad, Harrak... [28 words]Arvind MadhavanJun 24, 2006 01:2147943
Pipes: Denying Jewish Ties to Jerusalem [68 words]Dan RusenJun 20, 2006 13:5847940
Jerusalem [18 words]Larry ShapiroJun 20, 2006 13:4747939
Jerusalem, and the palestinian use of [196 words]rickJun 20, 2006 13:4247938
my cup of tea [209 words]HarrakJun 20, 2006 12:0247935
Ignorance or deceit? [80 words]DanJun 23, 2006 02:4247935
Dan, you are absolutely correct.... [16 words]MosheJun 25, 2006 08:4347935

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