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Gaza vs. Lebanon

Reader comment on item: [Israel's Gaza Withdrawal:] A Democracy Killing Itself

Submitted by Richard Williams (United States), Aug 16, 2005 at 15:43

I usually agree with most of Dr. Pipes' commentaries, but I differ on several points in this one equating the withdrawal from Gaza and the earlier pullout of the IDF from Lebanon.

1) It's true that the Bush Administration didn't press Sharon to withdraw, but I would ascribe the Administration's "coolness" toward the initial annoucement of the plan more to the fact that it was developed and announced unilaterally rather than as a component of either the Road Map or the so-called "peace process" with the Palestinians.

2) It's also true that Hizballah used the false claim that Sheba Farms was part of Lebanon to leave the door open for continuing "armed resistance" against Israel and has conducted a number of attacks against the IDF in that area. Also, the UN, which certified Israel's complete withdrawal from Lebanese territory, has failed either to prevent Hizballah and other terrorist groups from operating along the border and also has failed to persuade the GOL to deploy in sufficient numbers to impose law and order on the border. However, the Israeli-Lebanese border has, in general, been quieter since the May 2000 IDF withdrawal than at almost any time when Israel occupied the "Security Zone." Israel suffered more casualties, both civilian and military, when it was in the Zone than since the withdrawal.

While Hizballah has, as Dr. Pipes states, threatened to attack Israel with long-range rockets, it possessed those rockets and made similar threats while Israel was in Lebanon and the Security Zone didn't deter them any more or less than Israel's military power just over the border does today. While the more starry-eyed predictions of peace treaties with Syria and Lebanon and the disarming of Hizballah as a result of the withdrawal did not come true, neither did the more dire predictions of an increase in terrorist attacks across the border. Hizballah is collaborating to a greater degree with the Palestinian terrorist groups, with Iran's connivance and support, but that cannot be linked to the IDF withdrawal. What the withdrawal has done is cause both sides to impose certain limits on themselves which contribute to a diminishing of the general violence that occured when the IDF was in Lebanon. The bottom line purpose of the Security Zone was to contribute to Israel's security from terrorist attacks. An enemy will never be eliminated or defeated by a defensive measure such as the SZ. A realistic appraisal of Israel's security since May 2000 would be that it is no worse off without the Security Zone, and better in other respects (far fewer casualties, costs and troops required to secure the northern border).

3) While Hizballah did present the IDF withdrawal as a victory for "armed resistance" that was widely believed in the Arab world, and while that may have encouraged Palestinian resistance, Dr. Pipes knows better than anyone that Arabs are capable of promulgating and accepting the most fanciful interpretations of events if they fit their preconceived beliefs and opinions. That certainly was not the only factor in the beginning of the second Intifada, which has been largely ineffective in attaining Palestinian goals. In fact, the IDF and other security forces have succeeded in virtually shutting down Palestinian attacks inside Israel, which were rampant in the mid-1990s and at the beginning of the second Intifada.

I believe that Sharon made a strategic decision to divest Israel of territory that was a security and financial liability with no concomitant benefit, so as to make it easier to hold onto the territory in the West Bank that Sharon believes really IS crucial to the future of Israel. It is painful for the Israelis, but to accept the proposition that Israel must remain fixed in the security zone, the Gaza Strip or any other location long after they have ceased to serve their purposes is to allow the terrorists to dictate strategic policy.
Submitting....

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Reader comments (146) on this item

Title Commenter Date Thread
2Gaza, Hamas and the Stockholm Syndrome. [676 words]Stephen MargolisOct 22, 2008 17:23140701
unending terrorism [63 words]galSep 21, 2005 10:0526125
why? [564 words]MortaryanSep 11, 2005 17:3625662
to Paul la Demain, If it's proof you want... [113 words]orange yonasonAug 29, 2005 12:0925173
Sharon's war [329 words]yuval Brandstetter MDAug 26, 2005 18:2925135
Gaza Withdrawal [526 words]
w/response from Daniel Pipes
Paul la DemainAug 26, 2005 04:2325120
Re: Secular Law Surpasses G-d's Law? [131 words]Janet Ann SuzukiAug 24, 2005 12:0825058
8000 israelis vs. one million palestinian [116 words]L. AbideenAug 24, 2005 10:1225050
The Gaza Withdrawal [124 words]Suzanne RichmondNov 29, 2008 11:2425050
Secular Law Surpasses G-d's Law? [265 words]Yehoshua ZellerAug 23, 2005 20:4325027
Response to Mr. Feldman: you misunderstood [145 words]john barcusAug 23, 2005 19:1625023
Gaza [43 words]Perry SmulsonAug 23, 2005 13:4625003
Sharon's Disengagment plan is a Step in the Right Direction [487 words]LoganAug 23, 2005 12:0624995
Why not 5 years ago ? [86 words]mamo TollesaAug 23, 2005 07:5024985
re:Palestinian trap- Mr. Barcus [193 words]Steven FeldmanAug 22, 2005 23:3724976
Prejudice against the Palestinians [99 words]beccaAug 22, 2005 18:4324971
palestinian trap [279 words]john barcusAug 22, 2005 17:5124969
Sharon is trapping the Palestinians [340 words]AriAug 22, 2005 11:2324961
Re:Philedelphi Corridor [310 words]Faith GiniAug 21, 2005 13:5724940
Irish-British comparison [159 words]AndrewAug 21, 2005 10:4824938
No todos estan en la misma bolsa! [231 words]Andy FaurAug 21, 2005 07:3624937
Gaza [91 words]Donald W. BalesAug 20, 2005 11:0724924
Re: Philedelphi Corridor [160 words]Janet Ann SuzukiAug 20, 2005 10:5924923
Maybe. Just maybe. [100 words]L.J. MeyerAug 19, 2005 21:2024913
Gaza pull out - or is it? [137 words]Steven FeldmanAug 19, 2005 15:0324906
Israel on the verge of a massive Terrorist Attack [430 words]kanadAug 19, 2005 14:3824904
A Counterintuitive Observation [369 words]Ron ThompsonAug 19, 2005 08:5624899
Philedelphi Corridor [603 words]Faith GiniAug 19, 2005 01:1424890
Al kiddush Hashem [74 words]yehuda ben DavidAug 18, 2005 23:0224885
note to "kirkegaard" [13 words]john w. mcginleyAug 18, 2005 17:2724880
ITS WAR OR NOT. [177 words]DONVANAug 18, 2005 17:1124879
A Sign Of Things To Come? [805 words]orange yonasonAug 18, 2005 13:4924872
WORD OF CHRIST MINISTRY ; My love for Israel. [123 words]warren e. smithJan 25, 2007 14:3124872
Suggestion [223 words]Maclord MasihOct 19, 2007 13:4824872
Israel's Great Mistake [113 words]EdwardFeb 11, 2009 17:3924872
Agree with Richard WILLIAMS and J.CONGLIN [65 words]Sam ANTOINEAug 18, 2005 13:1824870
Humiliation [180 words]MarilynAug 18, 2005 13:0124868
What are you talking about... [18 words]williamAug 18, 2005 11:1524866
gaza withdrawal [10 words]walterAug 18, 2005 07:4924859
Richard Williams- Good Assessment [196 words]J. ConklinAug 17, 2005 21:1424851
Since Gaza will turn into Hamastan, a war will follow [9 words]John SmithAug 17, 2005 16:2624847
Israel is not a Democracy [108 words]AnnAug 17, 2005 12:0324839
Gaza withdrawal [14 words]Yoav EfratAug 17, 2005 12:0224838
Israelis have no right [33 words]NavAug 17, 2005 10:0824833
Palestinians are plain terrorists [26 words]NaamokuAug 17, 2005 09:0424830
Lament [16 words]Dixon PorterAug 17, 2005 08:3024829
Re: Orange Yonason [291 words]DvoraAug 17, 2005 07:4124828
Forced expulsions are illegal in international law. [57 words]d singerAug 17, 2005 03:3424822
Too Dark a Forecast [227 words]David AroninAug 17, 2005 02:1324817
Crazy like a fox [117 words]Walter ManchurAug 17, 2005 01:1624814
Gaza pullout: will history repeat itself? [141 words]N.S. RajaramAug 16, 2005 23:3724809
Don't Let Sharon Tell You It's Bush's Fault [218 words]orange yonasonAug 16, 2005 23:0424807
Ethnic Cleansing [131 words]Robert PerlitzAug 16, 2005 22:5824806
Re: Dvora [267 words]orange yonasonAug 16, 2005 22:4424803
Disengagement- Forcing the Palestinians to Choose, Not Israel. [157 words]YoramAug 16, 2005 21:5824799
I cannot agree with this statement [49 words]tzveeAug 16, 2005 20:4324796
My opinion [79 words]Larry BlumAug 16, 2005 19:5124794
Is Sharon Looking for a Fight? [73 words]Chris M.Aug 16, 2005 18:0124782
The Die is Cast... [173 words]C.ComptonAug 16, 2005 16:4824780
Tactics vs Strategy in Gaza [427 words]KierkegaardAug 16, 2005 16:2124776
May be the smartest move [349 words]BorisAug 16, 2005 16:1724775
It depends [338 words]Meryl ArbingAug 16, 2005 15:4524771
Gaza vs. Lebanon [645 words]Richard WilliamsAug 16, 2005 15:4324770
Disagree [121 words]Stephen AckerAug 16, 2005 14:5824762
A "Democracy?" No. A DICTATORSHIP, Yes. [319 words]Ruth LowryAug 16, 2005 14:4924761
cweiss@weissiplaw.com [11 words]Craig WeissAug 16, 2005 14:3324760
What was the alternative? [200 words]PatAug 16, 2005 13:1124755
The Wandering Jew Redux? [147 words]David W. LincolnAug 16, 2005 12:5824752
[The Gaza Withdrawal:] A Democracy Killing Itself [319 words]Sam AntoineAug 16, 2005 12:2524750
Gaza cannot be part of a Jewish and democratic state [285 words]OphirAug 16, 2005 12:0224749
The biggest enemies of the jewish people are among us! [252 words]EliAug 16, 2005 11:1224748
Radical Overstatement, Wrong Focus [307 words]ron thompsonAug 16, 2005 10:5124746
Israel as weak [28 words]s d stanfieldAug 16, 2005 10:3724745
Re: Ted - Withdrawal from Gaza [197 words]HuldahAug 16, 2005 10:2724744
Response to Ted Matthews [118 words]b. smohlAug 16, 2005 10:2224742
Sharon's present against Sharon's past? [102 words]
w/response from Daniel Pipes
Maureen CoteAug 16, 2005 10:1924741
Response to Ted [96 words]garyAug 16, 2005 09:4424740
SHARON'S SHAME [221 words]David Bentata PSCAug 16, 2005 08:3924739
Jerusalem Post editorial on disengagement [72 words]Mladen AndrijasevicAug 16, 2005 06:4624735
I can't believe what I just read [25 words]SaraAug 16, 2005 06:3824734
Sharon's strategy: Fight aggressors on their own turf? [108 words]Jan VinkAug 16, 2005 06:0524732
Re: Yonason [364 words]DvoraAug 16, 2005 05:3724730
It will encourage terrorism worldwide [355 words]Amitabh tripathiAug 16, 2005 05:2924729
withdrawal from gaza [115 words]nick wrightAug 16, 2005 04:2224727
Withdrawal from Gaza [274 words]Ted MatthewsAug 16, 2005 03:0724724
RE: "Sharon Appeasement" by Dvora [81 words]orange yonasonAug 16, 2005 02:4324722
Just Following Orders? [217 words]orange yonasonAug 16, 2005 02:0624720
Kidnapping the Peace [40 words]Dave GoldsteinAug 16, 2005 01:5824719
Lesson (Yet To Be?) Learned [836 words]orange yonasonAug 16, 2005 01:2424717
Recipe For War [68 words]Mark LoboAug 16, 2005 01:0524714
A fool is he who trusts in Man and not God [193 words]David GilchristAug 16, 2005 00:0224711
A Democracy Killing Itself [77 words]Michael BreslauerAug 15, 2005 23:5924710
Very Sad [97 words]JaneAug 15, 2005 23:5624709
Only one thing makes sense. Sharon knows what he is doing. [147 words]Victor G. LipshutzAug 15, 2005 23:1524707
revisiting Israel's 2005 pullout of Gaza [41 words]Victor g LipshutzNov 10, 2014 23:5024707
No substitute for Victory [457 words]Raphael PintoAug 15, 2005 23:1024706
A citizen's army cannot be deployed against their fellow soldiers [56 words]MIMAug 15, 2005 22:4124705
Perpetuating the idea of Peace [117 words]Abraham J. SantiagoAug 15, 2005 22:3224704
If I Forget Thee? [296 words]John R. PeacherAug 15, 2005 22:1624703
Jew versus Jew [29 words]Walter ManchurAug 15, 2005 22:1024701
First time I disagree with Mr. Pipes [192 words]Yvette SmithAug 15, 2005 22:0424700
Gaza Withdrawal Israel's advantage/Palestinian opportunity [162 words]Bekarove BeyamenuAug 15, 2005 21:2024699
Sharon Appeasement [204 words]DvoraAug 15, 2005 21:0124698
Israel is committing suicide [127 words]Ralph C Whaley MDAug 15, 2005 20:3324697
Land for peace [44 words]HesebahAug 15, 2005 19:3624696
pull out is justified [32 words]jerryAug 15, 2005 19:1024694
Leaving Gaza [53 words]Margaret YoungAug 15, 2005 19:0924693
Sharon deserves our trust and support [66 words]John GellesAug 15, 2005 18:1624692
Withdrawal [115 words]Steven LAug 15, 2005 17:5624691
A sad day for Israel [183 words]ElizabethAug 15, 2005 17:5524689
What is Sharon thinking? [139 words]abraham cohenAug 15, 2005 16:3424687
Unilateral Withdrawal [78 words]Howard MintzAug 15, 2005 16:1724685
wrong, wrong, wrong [169 words]john w. mcginleyAug 15, 2005 16:1424684
1This is sending a message that terrorism works. [231 words]NicolaAug 15, 2005 16:0824683
Disengagement --- down the road.......... [153 words]Harry W. GluckmanAug 15, 2005 15:5524682
To Paul Z. [71 words]orange yonasonAug 15, 2005 14:5624681
Conclusions too soon? [410 words]BorisAug 15, 2005 14:1324677
Success of Israeli Withdrawal Dependent on Conti gency Response. [108 words]Richard BrooksAug 15, 2005 13:5524676
1Democracy in itself is self defeating [271 words]Darwin BarrettAug 15, 2005 13:4024675
I Cry Today [56 words]Nikki Roth-SkilesAug 15, 2005 13:1424673
Right or wrong ? [101 words]Jacob Goldberg, MDAug 15, 2005 13:0024672
[The Gaza Withdrawal:] A Democracy Killing Itself [154 words]
w/response from Daniel Pipes
Carlito GaldósAug 15, 2005 12:2924671
Gaza Pullout [87 words]DavidAug 15, 2005 12:2724670
Gaza [75 words]Elaine NugentAug 15, 2005 12:1224669
We wonder why it is being done at all [731 words]Kenneth S. BesigAug 15, 2005 12:0924668
Leaving Gaza [279 words]Don SkupskyAug 15, 2005 12:0724667
Sharon Destroys A Democracy [118 words]Patricia ZentaraAug 15, 2005 12:0324666
Yes to unilateral abandonement [102 words]Richard GordonAug 15, 2005 11:5924665
Absolute Insanity [87 words]Arlinda DeAngelisAug 15, 2005 11:5024664
A democracy killing itself [117 words]Irving A WisemanAug 15, 2005 11:5024663
Autopsy [146 words]Dan FriedmanAug 15, 2005 11:4724662
I live in Israel and I do not see some of the facts you mention [297 words]Dan AterAug 15, 2005 11:3824661
another foreign piece of advice for israel [423 words]jrAug 15, 2005 11:3724660
Gaza [62 words]Jonathan HonigAug 15, 2005 11:3324659
respectfully disagree [311 words]Paul ZAug 15, 2005 11:3024658
A Democracy Killing Itself [39 words]Bernard FreedmanAug 15, 2005 11:2324657
[The Gaza Withdrawal:] A Democracy Killing Itself [28 words]PhillipAug 15, 2005 11:0724656
Days of Israel are Numbered [30 words]DonAug 15, 2005 10:4124654
New Round of justifications [163 words]AlojzAug 15, 2005 10:3324653
No Good Option [311 words]Ira KatzAug 15, 2005 09:5824651
Why? [20 words]Brad ScruggsAug 15, 2005 09:4424650
appeasement ? [215 words]peter silverAug 15, 2005 09:3924649
I hold Mr. Bush personally responsible for this [815 words]Steve KleinAug 15, 2005 09:3324648
Gaza pullout [10 words]cindy connerAug 15, 2005 09:3024647
Pull Out Completed more than 2 Years ago [56 words]Robert PerlitzMay 11, 2008 03:1524647
unilateral disengagement is a recipe for war [50 words]b. smohlAug 15, 2005 09:0924646

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