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MORE? - To Quote Isaiah - Have You Not Heard?

Reader comment on item: Accepting Israel as the Jewish State[: Public Opinion in Four Arab Countries]
in response to reader comment: More to Mr. M Tovey - Part -5

Submitted by M. Tovey (United States), Jun 28, 2010 at 16:11

Permit me to preface the following with an attempt to give an insight as to why I have decided to adopt the non-global world view that I have, and why the Hebrew Holy Bible has helped to form it. As you have observed, incredibly horrible things happen in this world we live in, and we are always looking for the proximal cause to give us some rationale that we can trust, for our very sanity depends on it. We see that sane people are confronted with the examples of irrational actions of other that are called 'normal', yet they do things that are an affront to the decency and, more importantly, the security of a people seeking to live their lives in some semblance of peace, but can't because they, pardon the expression, 'got in the way.' Of such are, but are not alone in their troubles, the people of the Caribbean region, of the very tragic incident (I do not reference that as an accident) in Bhopal, and of the other circumstances you try to place at America's feet, yet ignore the each of those situations' previous proximal causes. Normally, I would not take these to any extent of a discussion in this vein, but for the sake of presenting a point of view that is mine as a result of the failure of human logic to explain, my answers are based in Biblical determinations, and I have arrived at a place that now helps me to understand why, in a world that fights Almighty God for everything, we have His WORD that tells us, HE STILL LOVES US! Without His WORD, I would never understand why He does not burn us out with a nova of our sun. Let us then begin with your session 5, number one.

Of all the allegations you assert regarding the British Petroleum's violation of the environment in the Caribbean (not the first of these there-another one evidently happened in 1979-I've forgotten that one), there are other ways that the United States would find itself under Divine Judgment, according to the Hebrew Holy Bible, and this would be the least of the problems in the gulf-have you forgotten Hurricane Katrina? As for the killing of innocents, the definition of innocents in say, Afghanistan, are at a disparity if we are to make any different sense of the killings of civilians in the soccer field by the Taliban.

Now we can bicker about whose atrocities are more compelling in the reasoning of those who commit them, but really, according to the WORD of the LORD in the Hebrew Holy Bible, all are sinners, and in the human realm of decision making, everyone who thinks they have a cause that legitimizes their own form of 'judgment' are in danger of judgment themselves. So, do not think the United States is the great Satan deserving judgment all by itself when there is enough responsibility for other atrocities not committed by the United States to go around.

Next, let us consider the incident at Bhopal, of the innocent lives lost here for what might be perceived as no other reason than negligence. But it is much more than that, for in determining culpability, if there was no monetary consideration for the local population, then why would India have allowed the operation in the first place. In that, the benefits to the local people were matched against the risk, and the money won for Indai as well as the investors. It happens here in the United States, and if we were to look at other independent examples, Chernobyl in CIS of Russia or the mine disasters in China. Is there a responsibility to be assessed for that and to whom is the blame assigned? To be sure, it is most definite there is responsbility. Is there judgment? You may count it from a Biblical standpoint, much more severe than what one might expect from the Quran. But if we see that such judgment is perceived to be insufficient from a human standpoint, how are we to understand the lenience? The Holy Bible tells that reason also, that human judgment is not Biblical judgment; that human judgment failed for the very reason humanity finds itself in the predicament it is in. When man does not judge by the principles described by Jesus Christ, we see its failure. So, when human judgment fails, Divine judgment will correct. The LORD says, vengeance is mine; I (the LORD Jesus Christ) will repay. Remember, in the Hebrew Holy Bible, ALL AUTHORITY is given to Jesus Christ. How does that measure up to Jesus Christ and His love for humanity, and of His sacrifice on the cross for the sins of an unbelieving humanity? Remember here also, that the sins of humanity requires the individual to confess his / her sin to Almighty God and ask forgiveness, based on the promise that although we are sinners from birth, He loved us while we were yet sinners and still went to the cross to pay the sin debt.

Now before you make an accusatory remark about being insensitive to the tragedy of Bhopal, which of the Indian populations were the most affected: Hindu, Muslim, Sikh? It should not make any difference, but for some it does, for there was an inference that the incident was a judgment in and of itself, much like the British Petroleum gulf spill is for the United States. The greater tragedy of Bhopal for loss of lives cannot be measured against the Caribbean gulf, and I do not make that equation here, yet if we are to desiring to understand why so many were placed at risk in Bhopal, we must go deeper into the circumstances from a Biblical perspective-my viewpoint if you will-yet I am uncertain you can understand it. It requires a level of belief and faith in a perfect Almighty God and His interaction with an imperfect world of humanity. For me, it requires an understanding of who Jesus Christ really is, and you have rejected that categorically. There is much to explore on this topic, yet I will defer for the moment and move to the next.

Your third interrogative is a repetition of previous one's I have read of yours and others before, of trying to make some relative sense out of why the United States seems to be involved in the business of the rest of the world, and quite frankly, I would love to know that as well. The various scenarios you have mentioned are not explainable from a local perspective, neither from one of historical influence that I can understand outside of the Hebrew Holy Bible.

You mention the process of the displacement of the indigent people from the land that became known as America. If I have read only a fraction of the history that is available and realize that its explanation is thirty years in processing and I am not able to explain it to you in thirty words or less, you are not going to have any more of a clue until you have experienced it from my perspective. I can give you nothing you have not already formed an opinion about that is going to transform your worldview, unless you are willing to undertake a process that requires a completely different perspective. Short of that, what would be the point? You tell me in jaded terms of your preconceived observations of the various events that have happened, and I can quote from the actual participants of those events of how there were justifications-right, wrong or indifferent-for each and every one. Do I believe you, or them? Neither, so I will resort to the only litmus test I can rely on, the Hebrew Holy Bible, from which I can make the determination that the Holy Spirit provides.

You point to the United States for your examples of oppression and questionable alliances: point to something closer to home. To whom does Kashmir belong? And if you chose one side; what of the rights of the other? A Sikh is accused of killing Gandhi for the cause of the oppression of the Sikhs. What judgment should be rendered there? What of the Muslims who destroyed the temples of another belief system? Are they to be justified by their belief in the Quran? I have known Kannadese, Bengalese, Punjabi, and various others who have moved here for the freedom of expression of their religious or other beliefs, fleeing persecutions of their land of birth, seeking opportunities not available to them in their own land. Do I reject them for their heritage and say go home? No, for I am descended from immigrants also, yet I am very much American, as are they who seek a peaceful existence along side. That is the beauty of being true to my Savior Jesus Christ.

The third inquiry of yours can be answered by the half brother of Jesus Christ in His humanity, James, who makes this determination in chapter 4: starting at; 1) From whence come wars and fightings among you? Come they not hence, even of your lusts that war in your members? 2) You lust, and have not: you kill, and desire to have, and cannot obtain: you fight and war, yet you have not, because you ask not. 3) You ask, and receive not, because you ask amiss, that you may consume it upon your lusts. 4) You (spiritual) adulterers and adulteresses, know you not that the friendship of the world is enmity with God? Whosoever therefore will be a friend of the world is the enemy of God. 5) Do ye think that the scripture says in vain, 'The spirit that dwells in us lusts to envy?' 6) But He (Jesus Christ) gives more grace. Wherefore He says, God resists the proud, but gives grace unto the humble. 7) Submit yourselves therefore to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you. 8) Draw nigh to God, and He will draw nigh to you. Cleanse your hands, you sinners; and purify your hearts, you double minded. 9) Be afflicted, and mourn, and weep: let your laughter be turned to mourning, and your joy to heaviness. 10) Humble yourselves in the sight of the Lord, and he shall lift you up.

You continue to err in your presumption that the acts of those who conduct themselves in perverse atrocities while claiming they are doing it in the name of their fake Christianity are representative of the true fellowship of Christ. They are not representative of true Christianity, nor of me. Their actions are part of the diversionary tactic of the Adversary. Not only is that a problem for Christians who, out of the love of Jesus Christ, are in the process of witnessing His love for those who would accept it in faith, but it is a deterrent to you from realizing the truth of the Gospels, and you are left to sort through the lies told about Jesus Christ and never coming to the realization of the real truth.

Do you really want you know what I am counting on in this insane world? Here is a small sampling.

We read in Isaiah 40:9) O Zion, that brings good tidings, get thee up into the high mountain; O Jerusalem, that brings good tidings, lift up thy voice with strength; lift it up, be not afraid; say unto the cities of Judah, Behold your God! 10) Behold, the Lord GOD will come with strong hand, and His arm shall rule for him: behold, His reward is with him, and His work before him. 11) He shall feed his flock like a shepherd: He shall gather the lambs with his arm, and carry them in His bosom, and shall gently lead those that are with young….13) Who hath directed the Spirit of the LORD, or being His counsellor hath taught Him? 14) With whom took He counsel, and who instructed him, and taught him in the path of judgment, and taught Him knowledge, and showed to Him the way of understanding? 15) Behold, the nations are as a drop of a bucket, and are counted as the small dust of the balance: behold, He takes up the isles as a very little thing. ….17) All nations before Him are as nothing; and they are counted to Him less than nothing, and vanity. 18) To whom then will you liken God? Or what likeness will you compare unto him?

We read further: Isaiah 40:21) Have ye not known? Have ye not heard? Has it not been told you from the beginning? Have ye not understood from the foundations of the earth? 22) It is He that sits upon the circle of the earth, and the inhabitants thereof are as grasshoppers; that stretches out the heavens as a curtain, and spreads them out as a tent to dwell in: 23) That brings the princes to nothing; He makes the judges of the earth as vanity….28) Have you not known? Have you not heard; that the everlasting God, the LORD, the Creator of the ends of the earth, faints not, neither is weary? There is no searching of His understanding.

From my perspective, there is no other understanding of this except one understands Who Jesus Christ really is. The reference to Psalm 23 in unmistakable, and the fore runner to the Jews to announce the coming of the Anointed One in His humanity is here also. In John, we read at 10:7) Then said Jesus unto them again, Verily, verily, I say unto you, I am the door of the sheep. …11) I am the good shepherd: the good shepherd gives His life for the sheep. 14) I am the good shepherd, and know my sheep, and am known of mine. 15) As the Father knows me, even so know I the Father: and I lay down my life for the sheep.

So in this world of rancid manipulations of humanist activities that try to bring the earth to its destruction, am I convinced that Jesus Christ is my LORD and will fulfill His promises to me and to those who have believed Him in faith: absolutely. HE CANNOT FAIL. In the grace mentioned by the half brother of Jesus, He proved it on the cross, and proved it in His promises to Israel that He is in process of fulfilling as you and I both watch the Middle East. You may fault Israel for the world's perception of how the world thinks of Israel, but try looking at it from the eyes of Almighty God. While they have yet to return to Him in faithfulness (which they will eventually do), His WORD fails not, and that is what I trust in; the WORD of Jesus Christ the LORD.

And His WORD is why I can look at your perceptions of an incorrigible mankind in the above observations you have made and say, Almighty God is proving that mankind needs Him corporately, and each of us need Him individually, that failing in believing in Jesus Christ in faith brings judgment, but believing in Him in faith brings salvation, just as He promised.


Note: Opinions expressed in comments are those of the authors alone and not necessarily those of Daniel Pipes. Original writing only, please. Comments are screened and in some cases edited before posting. Reasoned disagreement is welcome but not comments that are scurrilous, off-topic, commercial, disparaging religions, or otherwise inappropriate. For complete regulations, see the "Guidelines for Reader Comments".

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Reader comments (113) on this item

Title Commenter Date Thread
1"under the right circumstances" [141 words]Howard LaitinJun 3, 2010 00:31173770
1Howard Laitin said it right [174 words]TedAug 6, 2010 02:33173770
boycott of israeli products [33 words]mythMay 30, 2010 16:02173547
Israel is other name for freedom [93 words]Muslimk***May 26, 2010 15:49173427
Israel [81 words]concerned americanMay 18, 2010 18:23173021
Turkey as an ally........... [36 words]JosephJun 7, 2010 04:00173021
The Levant in 2200 [421 words]KMMay 18, 2010 08:31172954
an old brave new world [272 words]the Grand Infidel of KaffiristanMay 19, 2010 06:29172954
Just Recognize It As A Country [17 words]Mark D.May 20, 2010 00:00172954
Flags, etc [762 words]KMMay 20, 2010 04:36172954
1Israel , flags etc [1791 words]the Grand Infidel of KaffiristanMay 21, 2010 05:57172954
p.s. [67 words]the Grand Infidel of KaffiristanMay 21, 2010 06:11172954
some in some out [54 words]mythMay 23, 2010 13:56172954
The Origin of Jews, et al [4578 words]KMJul 7, 2010 10:13172954
From Beyond the Rivers of Ethiopia My Suppliants, Even the Daughter of My Dispersed, Shall Bring Mine Offering. [952 words]M. ToveyJul 20, 2010 14:19172954
You see our crooked paths yet the one you walk twists and turns. [289 words]LynnJul 22, 2010 08:04172954
response [72 words]RonaldSep 14, 2010 12:15172954
no historical ties ? [110 words]mythMay 16, 2010 15:27172747
Might as well accept it... [163 words]CW OrangeMay 16, 2010 04:08172741
Why Is Recognition Held Out As So Important Even Compared To Ending Violence? [58 words]MarsdMay 16, 2010 02:29172738
Why is accepting or recognizing Israel so important? [29 words]mythMay 29, 2010 07:17172738
The muslims will never accept Israel as a JEWISH STATE, they have said so, and the koran says so ! [213 words]Phil GreendMay 14, 2010 23:33172713
2The Qur'an is a Jewish Book [104 words]RadiateTruthJun 1, 2010 18:57172713
No surprise [78 words]Katherine McLeanMay 12, 2010 19:15172635
Arabs & Jews in Israel need to know what their scriptures say. [37 words]M.DMay 11, 2010 17:20172585
Re: Accepting Isreal as Jewish State [42 words]AbuuHaleemMay 12, 2010 16:33172585
What "Allah" really said about Jerusalem & Israel. [221 words]M.D.May 13, 2010 11:38172585
1Accepting the Truth of an Israeli Jewish State [385 words]M. ToveyMay 11, 2010 16:51172583
1Pareto principle [129 words]David LMay 11, 2010 15:06172577
Accepting Israel as the Jewish State [16 words]stevenLMay 11, 2010 13:41172572
Going on the "Offensive" [123 words]Susan Heller-SomervilleMay 11, 2010 13:21172571
Response to Susan Sommerville [102 words]Abraham MillerMay 11, 2010 22:08172571
The War Against Israel [42 words]Prof. Paul EidelbergMay 11, 2010 13:13172570
Muslims Accepting Israel ...? [136 words]TL WinslowMay 11, 2010 10:50172566
Israel will Survive anyway IF [256 words]John W. McGinleyMay 11, 2010 10:41172565
State of the Jewish People or Jewish Religion? [231 words]AbbushukiMay 11, 2010 10:07172564
1Accepting Israel as the Jewish State [828 words]Harry LiebermanMay 11, 2010 18:43172564
1Israel is Jewish, Established not by People, But by the WORD of the LORD - Ezekiel 36-37, et al. [641 words]M. ToveyMay 11, 2010 19:21172564
1There is a Jewish People since we, Jews, religious or secular, say so! [176 words]Isaac HaskiyaMay 12, 2010 02:35172564
every muslim knows [186 words]the Grand Infidel of KaffiristanMay 12, 2010 05:19172564
1COUNTER TO NONSENSE [190 words]DEBORAH THE JUDGEMay 13, 2010 14:19172564
To Palestinians(Arabs) Palestine is anywhere Jews live in Palestine but not where Arabs live. [173 words]Harry LiebermanMay 11, 2010 08:39172560
JORDAN IS THE PALESTINIAN STATE [172 words]Ilene RichmanMay 30, 2010 12:59172560
What kind of Jewish state ? [133 words]
w/response from Daniel Pipes
Debanjan BanerjeeMay 11, 2010 08:32172559
More reply to Dr. Pipes [170 words]Debanjan BanerjeeMay 13, 2010 02:10172559
Try a Different Perspective About the Jewish State of Israel [438 words]M. ToveyMay 20, 2010 18:54172559
Dear Mr. Tovey [188 words]Debanjan BanerjeeMay 24, 2010 23:38172559
Jewish Identification Already Determined by the LORD in His Holy Bible [949 words]M. ToveyMay 27, 2010 12:23172559
2Reply to Mr. M Tovey [284 words]Debanjan BanerjeeMay 28, 2010 07:03172559
1Goy ? [99 words]true believerMay 30, 2010 19:20172559
You are terribly wrong on this account [165 words]Debanjan BanerjeeJun 1, 2010 00:40172559
To Repeat that Which is Not Understood About Being Jewish [1188 words]M. ToveyJun 1, 2010 12:38172559
More Response to Mr. Tovey [272 words]Debanjan BanerjeeJun 3, 2010 04:47172559
You insult my common sense [187 words]true believerJun 3, 2010 11:42172559
There is a Separation Required [292 words]M. ToveyJun 4, 2010 18:31172559
More to Mr. Tovey [575 words]Debanjan BanerjeeJun 6, 2010 09:56172559
Continuing from my previous post [223 words]Debanjan BanerjeeJun 6, 2010 23:42172559
Same Arguments - No New Truth From the Quran [411 words]M. ToveyJun 7, 2010 19:49172559
When Jesus Christ Returns - Israel will be Fully Jewish, Ethnically and Biblically [1533 words]M. ToveyJun 8, 2010 13:32172559
More on Quran [408 words]Debanjan BanerjeeJun 8, 2010 23:57172559
More on Why Quran is No Substitue for the Hebrew HOLY BIBLE [900 words]M. ToveyJun 9, 2010 19:02172559
My reply to Mr. M Tovey [357 words]Debanjan BanerjeeJun 10, 2010 00:40172559
The Final Acceptance of the Jewish State is Biblically Mandated in the Love of Jesus Christ [1299 words]M. ToveyJun 10, 2010 19:37172559
My reply to Mr. M Tovey [317 words]Debanjan BanerjeeJun 11, 2010 07:27172559
Answer to Mr. M .Tovey [755 words]Debanjan BanerjeeJun 11, 2010 22:33172559
Faith is the Determinant [940 words]M. ToveyJun 14, 2010 18:25172559
Answers - A Series of Replies - Part One [678 words]M. ToveyJun 14, 2010 19:42172559
My Answers - part One [357 words]Debanjan BanerjeeJun 15, 2010 00:15172559
Answer to Mr. M Tovey [500 words]Debanjan BanerjeeJun 15, 2010 01:01172559
Answers - Part Two [1623 words]M. ToveyJun 15, 2010 19:38172559
Answers - A Third Reply [1355 words]M. ToveyJun 16, 2010 17:56172559
Answers? Seek HIM Who Died on the Cross to Answer the Need for Redemption from Sin [727 words]M. ToveyJun 16, 2010 19:25172559
My Answers - part two [970 words]Debanjan BanerjeeJun 17, 2010 01:03172559
More to Mr. M Tovey - Part -4 [305 words]Debanjan BanerjeeJun 18, 2010 11:28172559
Answer is Still the Same - Jesus Christ Died for You Out of the LOVE of Almighty God [353 words]M. ToveyJun 18, 2010 18:26172559
Our dear Deb and the subject of the so called sacrifice and othere sordid matters [473 words]dhimmi no moreJun 20, 2010 07:50172559
Lay off DNM [186 words]Debanjan BanerjeeJun 21, 2010 00:04172559
Our dear Deb: Why does the calendar of Islam start in 622CE and not in 610CE? any guesses? [47 words]dhimmi no moreJun 21, 2010 05:55172559
Our dear Deb and Islamophobia and we can only blame Him! [169 words]dhimmi no moreJun 21, 2010 06:03172559
More? Understanding The Holy Bible is More Than Debating It; It is Believing It Against Human Logic [1444 words]M. ToveyJun 21, 2010 12:05172559
True Understanding About Israel's Place in the World Requires True Understanding of the Holy Bible - You Want Answers? Guess Where They Are. [1462 words]M. ToveyJun 21, 2010 16:44172559
Our dear deb and one word: FRUSTRATION [261 words]dhimmi no moreJun 22, 2010 05:44172559
Hi dhimmi..its Simon again! [31 words]SimonJun 23, 2010 01:27172559
More to DNM [107 words]Debanjan BanerjeeJun 23, 2010 04:35172559
More Response to Mr. Tovey Part -5 [418 words]Debanjan BanerjeeJun 23, 2010 07:36172559
The amazing Pakistanis and Indian Muslims [42 words]dhimmi no moreJun 23, 2010 17:27172559
So our dear Deb you still did not answer [181 words]dhimmi no moreJun 23, 2010 17:41172559
The Response Should Be to the Truth of the Holy Bible - of Israel's Completed Destiny in Jesus Christ [1272 words]M. ToveyJun 23, 2010 19:33172559
Gem time and our dear Deb [293 words]dhimmi no moreJun 24, 2010 06:03172559
DNM think before you write [242 words]Debanjan BanerjeeJun 25, 2010 00:15172559
More to Mr. M Tovey - Part -5 [294 words]Debanjan BanerjeeJun 26, 2010 04:50172559
our dear deb is saying that killing is evil but his allah says ayat al-sayf says to kill! which one should we believe [417 words]dhimmi no moreJun 27, 2010 06:28172559
The Bhopal disaster and Allah's al-qada' wa al-qadr [203 words]dhimmi no moreJun 27, 2010 08:51172559
MORE? - To Quote Isaiah - Have You Not Heard? [2537 words]M. ToveyJun 28, 2010 16:11172559
Reply to Mr. Tovey - Part - 5 [325 words]Debanjan BanerjeeJun 29, 2010 00:29172559
ON Bhopal [69 words]Debanjan BanerjeeJun 29, 2010 00:38172559
Accepting Israel's Exceptional Status Before Almighty God - America Does Not Replace Israel [734 words]M. ToveyJun 29, 2010 17:49172559
Bhopal and Allah [161 words]dhimmi no moreJun 30, 2010 06:56172559
On Bhopal and Allah [35 words]Debanjan BanerjeeJul 4, 2010 02:15172559
More to Mr. M Tovey - Part -6 [476 words]Debanjan BanerjeeJul 4, 2010 02:41172559
Muslims worry about slavery? Really? al-hunuud al-humr wa al-3abeed and other sordid matters [664 words]dhimmi no moreJul 5, 2010 06:23172559
Bhopal and Allah part deux [270 words]dhimmi no moreJul 5, 2010 07:24172559
My Answer to DNM [89 words]Debanjan BanerjeeJul 5, 2010 23:55172559
Considering the Penalty for Obstructing Jesus Christ and the Acceptance of His People Israel [1860 words]M. ToveyJul 6, 2010 16:28172559
Bhupal and Allah [174 words]dhimmi no moreJul 6, 2010 19:32172559
Christ Jesus is the Cornerstone of a Non-ethnic Building [422 words]BA GriddJul 8, 2010 14:52172559
Full Context of the Promise to the Jewish Nation Contingent Upon Belief, in Jesus Christ's First Visit as Well as His Return [1163 words]M. ToveyJul 12, 2010 12:22172559
There are really three committments for the Palestinians [493 words]Ken Besig IsraelMay 11, 2010 06:17172554
Real challenges in this blighted region [53 words]UziMay 11, 2010 05:47172551
Mutuality [104 words]Cherif El-AyoutyMay 11, 2010 03:54172548
why they do not accept Israel [159 words]mythMay 14, 2010 04:26172548
Dear Daniel, I believe [29 words]
w/response from Daniel Pipes
Sohel Ahmed BahjatMay 11, 2010 03:14172544
State of the Jews vs. Jewish State [54 words]PezDispenserMay 13, 2010 03:40172544

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Note: Opinions expressed in comments are those of the authors alone and not necessarily those of Daniel Pipes. Original writing only, please. Comments are screened and in some cases edited before posting. Reasoned disagreement is welcome but not comments that are scurrilous, off-topic, commercial, disparaging religions, or otherwise inappropriate. For complete regulations, see the "Guidelines for Reader Comments".

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