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To Repeat that Which is Not Understood About Being Jewish

Reader comment on item: Accepting Israel as the Jewish State[: Public Opinion in Four Arab Countries]
in response to reader comment: Reply to Mr. M Tovey

Submitted by M. Tovey (United States), Jun 1, 2010 at 12:38

Greetings Debanjan…….let us first dispense with the perceived necessity of yours to 'remind' me concerning the issue of unanimity of views regarding Jewishness and to whom the specific reference may, or may not be applied. If one is not Jewish, as I am not, then there is no concern to be retained as to its applicability outside of the Biblical reference. Since I am not Jewish, I need not debate its value, nor do I have anything to gain except that which is Biblically promised.

In Galatians 3:7 et seq, we read… 7)Know ye therefore, that they who are of faith, the same are the children of Abraham. 8) And the scripture foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel to Abraham, saying, "In thee shall all nations be blessed." 9) So then they who are of faith are blessed with faithful Abraham. 10) For as many as are of the works of the law, are under the curse: for it is written, Accursed is every one that continues not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them. 11) But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, is evident: for, "The just shall live by faith.(Hab 2:4)" 12) And the law is not of faith: but, The man that doeth them shall live by them.

13) Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Accursed is every one that hangs on a tree: 14) That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith. 15) Brethren, I speak after the manner of men; Though it is but a man's covenant, yet if it is confirmed, no man disannuls or adds to it. 16) Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He says not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.

So here, as in other places of the Holy Bible, there are more than Isaac and Ishmael that are concerned as to whom the promises were made. We'll have more on that later.

Point One: Now the anthropology of the Jewish population in Israel is quite disparate, that in your observation, it is a human impossibility to distinguish which of them are true blood descendents of the twelve sons of Jacob. But why would you, not being an Israeli, be concerned except to acknowledge that the Almighty Sovereign of the Universe, and Jesus Christ at the right hand of Almighty God, KNOWS who each of them are. So if He considers them to be Jews, who am I to dispute it. Essentially, it's not my problem, for if He knows who is and who is not, then it is His situation and purpose to deal with it.

Point Two: You cannot be more wrong about whether a Jew can be a follower of Jesus Christ. Remembering that phrase I recited before, of Jesus Christ's admonition, that "salvation is of the Jews," and the first of His followers were then, and are Jewish, to their very being and essence. Only in ignorance does one try to remove the Jewishness of the beginnings of Christianity. Only in the attempted sanitization of Christianity does one try to make that distinction in error.

Today, though, as you have observed there is the humanist attempt to make that distinction, and yet are we to believe the lie you pose that all the Messianic followers of Jesus Christ are no longer Jewish? Were you to convert to Christianity, would that mean you are no longer from India? And I've already explained the concept of Biblical Zionism; it still stands.

Point Three: No one of a true Biblical belief disputes that the children of Ishmael are children of Abraham, and with Biblical promises of their own. The distinction that needs to be reminded of here is that the promises to Ishmael are different than the ones made though Isaac. But, not all 'Palestinians' are Ishmaelites either; and just as one would be hard put to make that distinction amongst that population, one would need to defer to the intelligence of the Eternal Sovereign of the Holy Bible to do so. The Biblical understanding is that the only way a non-Jewish person is to enjoy the promise is by being a child of Abraham through the emulation of his faith in Almighty God, culminating in faith in Jesus Christ. By Christ's own testimony, Abraham rejoiced to see His (Jesus Christ's) day, and could rest in the fulfillment of the promises made to the believing followers, both Jewish and non-Jewish. The believers then are the true 'chosen ones.'

Point Four: Have we not read that the true believers in the promises made to Abraham within the ranks of the Jewish people are found in the remnant to whom Almighty God is witnessing? Should anyone care about a 'human' definition while dealing with the terms Almighty God has set? Being Jewish is BOTH ethnic and Biblical; then it cannot be separated,yet that being Jewish required separation for them to be a people of Almighty God. Read what Moses said to the people of his time, and of the enforcement of that requirement up to the time of Jesus Christ. What distinction did Jesus Christ make, and how did He enforce it, to a make His point? Read of the Syro-Phoenician woman, a Gentile, who begged of Jesus to grant her petition to heal her trouble daughter. She, recognizing her position in a Jewish society of being considered a dog, still had faith in Him of His justice, and was granted her prayer of that faith to have her daughter healed. Later, the Roman Legion commander, definitely a Gentile, had his petition to have his servant healed, certifying to all that even though salvation is of the Jews, faith transcends that barrier and salvation is available to all who believe. Peter confirms that later still. I am not going to turn that away in my life, not this one nor the next. The distinction then, is made through faith in the WORD of the LORD through Jesus Christ, not ethnicity.

Point Five: Is it not you that considers me a 'useful idiot', or maybe not even useful? To point, I have many Jewish acquaintances, and though they are devoted to their religious practices and we may debate the differences, yet none have considered me an idiot. Further, some are Messianic, and we have a kinship that exceeds the ethnicity, being brothers and sisters in Christ, a familial attachment that cannot ever be broken; for it is heavenly.

And another thing, again, be reminded that the Zionism in Israel promoted by Theodore Hertzl is not the same as the Biblical Zionism we read of in the Holy Bible. It is Almighty God that has determined that in Jerusalem is Zion found as He has determined, and this mere mortal will never dispute it.

Submitting....

Note: Opinions expressed in comments are those of the authors alone and not necessarily those of Daniel Pipes. Original writing only, please. Comments are screened and in some cases edited before posting. Reasoned disagreement is welcome but not comments that are scurrilous, off-topic, commercial, disparaging religions, or otherwise inappropriate. For complete regulations, see the "Guidelines for Reader Comments".

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Reader comments (113) on this item

Title Commenter Date Thread
1"under the right circumstances" [141 words]Howard LaitinJun 3, 2010 00:31173770
1Howard Laitin said it right [174 words]TedAug 6, 2010 02:33173770
boycott of israeli products [33 words]mythMay 30, 2010 16:02173547
Israel is other name for freedom [93 words]Muslimk***May 26, 2010 15:49173427
Israel [81 words]concerned americanMay 18, 2010 18:23173021
Turkey as an ally........... [36 words]JosephJun 7, 2010 04:00173021
The Levant in 2200 [421 words]KMMay 18, 2010 08:31172954
an old brave new world [272 words]the Grand Infidel of KaffiristanMay 19, 2010 06:29172954
Just Recognize It As A Country [17 words]Mark D.May 20, 2010 00:00172954
Flags, etc [762 words]KMMay 20, 2010 04:36172954
1Israel , flags etc [1791 words]the Grand Infidel of KaffiristanMay 21, 2010 05:57172954
p.s. [67 words]the Grand Infidel of KaffiristanMay 21, 2010 06:11172954
some in some out [54 words]mythMay 23, 2010 13:56172954
The Origin of Jews, et al [4578 words]KMJul 7, 2010 10:13172954
From Beyond the Rivers of Ethiopia My Suppliants, Even the Daughter of My Dispersed, Shall Bring Mine Offering. [952 words]M. ToveyJul 20, 2010 14:19172954
You see our crooked paths yet the one you walk twists and turns. [289 words]LynnJul 22, 2010 08:04172954
response [72 words]RonaldSep 14, 2010 12:15172954
no historical ties ? [110 words]mythMay 16, 2010 15:27172747
Might as well accept it... [163 words]CW OrangeMay 16, 2010 04:08172741
Why Is Recognition Held Out As So Important Even Compared To Ending Violence? [58 words]MarsdMay 16, 2010 02:29172738
Why is accepting or recognizing Israel so important? [29 words]mythMay 29, 2010 07:17172738
The muslims will never accept Israel as a JEWISH STATE, they have said so, and the koran says so ! [213 words]Phil GreendMay 14, 2010 23:33172713
2The Qur'an is a Jewish Book [104 words]RadiateTruthJun 1, 2010 18:57172713
No surprise [78 words]Katherine McLeanMay 12, 2010 19:15172635
Arabs & Jews in Israel need to know what their scriptures say. [37 words]M.DMay 11, 2010 17:20172585
Re: Accepting Isreal as Jewish State [42 words]AbuuHaleemMay 12, 2010 16:33172585
What "Allah" really said about Jerusalem & Israel. [221 words]M.D.May 13, 2010 11:38172585
1Accepting the Truth of an Israeli Jewish State [385 words]M. ToveyMay 11, 2010 16:51172583
1Pareto principle [129 words]David LMay 11, 2010 15:06172577
Accepting Israel as the Jewish State [16 words]stevenLMay 11, 2010 13:41172572
Going on the "Offensive" [123 words]Susan Heller-SomervilleMay 11, 2010 13:21172571
Response to Susan Sommerville [102 words]Abraham MillerMay 11, 2010 22:08172571
The War Against Israel [42 words]Prof. Paul EidelbergMay 11, 2010 13:13172570
Muslims Accepting Israel ...? [136 words]TL WinslowMay 11, 2010 10:50172566
Israel will Survive anyway IF [256 words]John W. McGinleyMay 11, 2010 10:41172565
State of the Jewish People or Jewish Religion? [231 words]AbbushukiMay 11, 2010 10:07172564
1Accepting Israel as the Jewish State [828 words]Harry LiebermanMay 11, 2010 18:43172564
1Israel is Jewish, Established not by People, But by the WORD of the LORD - Ezekiel 36-37, et al. [641 words]M. ToveyMay 11, 2010 19:21172564
1There is a Jewish People since we, Jews, religious or secular, say so! [176 words]Isaac HaskiyaMay 12, 2010 02:35172564
every muslim knows [186 words]the Grand Infidel of KaffiristanMay 12, 2010 05:19172564
1COUNTER TO NONSENSE [190 words]DEBORAH THE JUDGEMay 13, 2010 14:19172564
To Palestinians(Arabs) Palestine is anywhere Jews live in Palestine but not where Arabs live. [173 words]Harry LiebermanMay 11, 2010 08:39172560
JORDAN IS THE PALESTINIAN STATE [172 words]Ilene RichmanMay 30, 2010 12:59172560
What kind of Jewish state ? [133 words]
w/response from Daniel Pipes
Debanjan BanerjeeMay 11, 2010 08:32172559
More reply to Dr. Pipes [170 words]Debanjan BanerjeeMay 13, 2010 02:10172559
Try a Different Perspective About the Jewish State of Israel [438 words]M. ToveyMay 20, 2010 18:54172559
Dear Mr. Tovey [188 words]Debanjan BanerjeeMay 24, 2010 23:38172559
Jewish Identification Already Determined by the LORD in His Holy Bible [949 words]M. ToveyMay 27, 2010 12:23172559
2Reply to Mr. M Tovey [284 words]Debanjan BanerjeeMay 28, 2010 07:03172559
1Goy ? [99 words]true believerMay 30, 2010 19:20172559
You are terribly wrong on this account [165 words]Debanjan BanerjeeJun 1, 2010 00:40172559
To Repeat that Which is Not Understood About Being Jewish [1188 words]M. ToveyJun 1, 2010 12:38172559
More Response to Mr. Tovey [272 words]Debanjan BanerjeeJun 3, 2010 04:47172559
You insult my common sense [187 words]true believerJun 3, 2010 11:42172559
There is a Separation Required [292 words]M. ToveyJun 4, 2010 18:31172559
More to Mr. Tovey [575 words]Debanjan BanerjeeJun 6, 2010 09:56172559
Continuing from my previous post [223 words]Debanjan BanerjeeJun 6, 2010 23:42172559
Same Arguments - No New Truth From the Quran [411 words]M. ToveyJun 7, 2010 19:49172559
When Jesus Christ Returns - Israel will be Fully Jewish, Ethnically and Biblically [1533 words]M. ToveyJun 8, 2010 13:32172559
More on Quran [408 words]Debanjan BanerjeeJun 8, 2010 23:57172559
More on Why Quran is No Substitue for the Hebrew HOLY BIBLE [900 words]M. ToveyJun 9, 2010 19:02172559
My reply to Mr. M Tovey [357 words]Debanjan BanerjeeJun 10, 2010 00:40172559
The Final Acceptance of the Jewish State is Biblically Mandated in the Love of Jesus Christ [1299 words]M. ToveyJun 10, 2010 19:37172559
My reply to Mr. M Tovey [317 words]Debanjan BanerjeeJun 11, 2010 07:27172559
Answer to Mr. M .Tovey [755 words]Debanjan BanerjeeJun 11, 2010 22:33172559
Faith is the Determinant [940 words]M. ToveyJun 14, 2010 18:25172559
Answers - A Series of Replies - Part One [678 words]M. ToveyJun 14, 2010 19:42172559
My Answers - part One [357 words]Debanjan BanerjeeJun 15, 2010 00:15172559
Answer to Mr. M Tovey [500 words]Debanjan BanerjeeJun 15, 2010 01:01172559
Answers - Part Two [1623 words]M. ToveyJun 15, 2010 19:38172559
Answers - A Third Reply [1355 words]M. ToveyJun 16, 2010 17:56172559
Answers? Seek HIM Who Died on the Cross to Answer the Need for Redemption from Sin [727 words]M. ToveyJun 16, 2010 19:25172559
My Answers - part two [970 words]Debanjan BanerjeeJun 17, 2010 01:03172559
More to Mr. M Tovey - Part -4 [305 words]Debanjan BanerjeeJun 18, 2010 11:28172559
Answer is Still the Same - Jesus Christ Died for You Out of the LOVE of Almighty God [353 words]M. ToveyJun 18, 2010 18:26172559
Our dear Deb and the subject of the so called sacrifice and othere sordid matters [473 words]dhimmi no moreJun 20, 2010 07:50172559
Lay off DNM [186 words]Debanjan BanerjeeJun 21, 2010 00:04172559
Our dear Deb: Why does the calendar of Islam start in 622CE and not in 610CE? any guesses? [47 words]dhimmi no moreJun 21, 2010 05:55172559
Our dear Deb and Islamophobia and we can only blame Him! [169 words]dhimmi no moreJun 21, 2010 06:03172559
More? Understanding The Holy Bible is More Than Debating It; It is Believing It Against Human Logic [1444 words]M. ToveyJun 21, 2010 12:05172559
True Understanding About Israel's Place in the World Requires True Understanding of the Holy Bible - You Want Answers? Guess Where They Are. [1462 words]M. ToveyJun 21, 2010 16:44172559
Our dear deb and one word: FRUSTRATION [261 words]dhimmi no moreJun 22, 2010 05:44172559
Hi dhimmi..its Simon again! [31 words]SimonJun 23, 2010 01:27172559
More to DNM [107 words]Debanjan BanerjeeJun 23, 2010 04:35172559
More Response to Mr. Tovey Part -5 [418 words]Debanjan BanerjeeJun 23, 2010 07:36172559
The amazing Pakistanis and Indian Muslims [42 words]dhimmi no moreJun 23, 2010 17:27172559
So our dear Deb you still did not answer [181 words]dhimmi no moreJun 23, 2010 17:41172559
The Response Should Be to the Truth of the Holy Bible - of Israel's Completed Destiny in Jesus Christ [1272 words]M. ToveyJun 23, 2010 19:33172559
Gem time and our dear Deb [293 words]dhimmi no moreJun 24, 2010 06:03172559
DNM think before you write [242 words]Debanjan BanerjeeJun 25, 2010 00:15172559
More to Mr. M Tovey - Part -5 [294 words]Debanjan BanerjeeJun 26, 2010 04:50172559
our dear deb is saying that killing is evil but his allah says ayat al-sayf says to kill! which one should we believe [417 words]dhimmi no moreJun 27, 2010 06:28172559
The Bhopal disaster and Allah's al-qada' wa al-qadr [203 words]dhimmi no moreJun 27, 2010 08:51172559
MORE? - To Quote Isaiah - Have You Not Heard? [2537 words]M. ToveyJun 28, 2010 16:11172559
Reply to Mr. Tovey - Part - 5 [325 words]Debanjan BanerjeeJun 29, 2010 00:29172559
ON Bhopal [69 words]Debanjan BanerjeeJun 29, 2010 00:38172559
Accepting Israel's Exceptional Status Before Almighty God - America Does Not Replace Israel [734 words]M. ToveyJun 29, 2010 17:49172559
Bhopal and Allah [161 words]dhimmi no moreJun 30, 2010 06:56172559
On Bhopal and Allah [35 words]Debanjan BanerjeeJul 4, 2010 02:15172559
More to Mr. M Tovey - Part -6 [476 words]Debanjan BanerjeeJul 4, 2010 02:41172559
Muslims worry about slavery? Really? al-hunuud al-humr wa al-3abeed and other sordid matters [664 words]dhimmi no moreJul 5, 2010 06:23172559
Bhopal and Allah part deux [270 words]dhimmi no moreJul 5, 2010 07:24172559
My Answer to DNM [89 words]Debanjan BanerjeeJul 5, 2010 23:55172559
Considering the Penalty for Obstructing Jesus Christ and the Acceptance of His People Israel [1860 words]M. ToveyJul 6, 2010 16:28172559
Bhupal and Allah [174 words]dhimmi no moreJul 6, 2010 19:32172559
Christ Jesus is the Cornerstone of a Non-ethnic Building [422 words]BA GriddJul 8, 2010 14:52172559
Full Context of the Promise to the Jewish Nation Contingent Upon Belief, in Jesus Christ's First Visit as Well as His Return [1163 words]M. ToveyJul 12, 2010 12:22172559
There are really three committments for the Palestinians [493 words]Ken Besig IsraelMay 11, 2010 06:17172554
Real challenges in this blighted region [53 words]UziMay 11, 2010 05:47172551
Mutuality [104 words]Cherif El-AyoutyMay 11, 2010 03:54172548
why they do not accept Israel [159 words]mythMay 14, 2010 04:26172548
Dear Daniel, I believe [29 words]
w/response from Daniel Pipes
Sohel Ahmed BahjatMay 11, 2010 03:14172544
State of the Jews vs. Jewish State [54 words]PezDispenserMay 13, 2010 03:40172544

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Note: Opinions expressed in comments are those of the authors alone and not necessarily those of Daniel Pipes. Original writing only, please. Comments are screened and in some cases edited before posting. Reasoned disagreement is welcome but not comments that are scurrilous, off-topic, commercial, disparaging religions, or otherwise inappropriate. For complete regulations, see the "Guidelines for Reader Comments".

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