Submitted by Nura (United States), Oct 21, 2008 at 02:20
Your name has an origin in the word Noor, which means light or enlightenment. You have neither.
I was right, I can recognize a hateful Hindu when I hear one.
Congratulations, you know an interpretation of the name that I chose. I was born with the name Anita, a name that was given to me by my father before he converted to Islam. I chose Nura when I was actually 21, a full 10 years later. I read the Surah Nur during Ramadan and I felt that it represented my goal is in life, guidance. Since then I have been actively seeking to understand my religion more.
It is not for you, a pagan, atheist, agnostic, whatever you are, to judge and tell me anything about enlightenment. Your statement is very narcissistic in nature. The true meaning of narcissism. You don't know who created you. You have no idea of what you believe other than the hate of my religion and Prophet (PBUH). That is your religion, hate and uncertainty. Hardly an example of enlightenment.
It is people of hate who need enlightenment. This is a very enlightening experience because I have had Hindu acquaintances who were the complete opposite of what you represent. This why I don't make the ignorant mistake of grouping people, a lesson you should learn. Perhaps you are the one who needs enlightenment. You speak of Ghandi, and yet what was his message? Did he not call himself both a Muslim and a Hindu?
You are an intolerant extremist that is the manifestation of what you claim to hate. Don't play innocent Hindu. The ambiguity of your beliefs is only cowardice. You want to distance yourself from Hinduism so that you can not be called to account for it.
You once said that Islam is dying, I believe that you leaving the religion of your ancestors is a great representation of the future of Hinduism. It is your ancestral religion that this dying. Your country is made of up 40% Muslim? Pakistan is called an Islamic nation that is full of your brethren. This would imply that only 25%to 30% of your ancestral brothers remain in paganism of which many, like you, are leaving it. Thus, the reason for your anger. You see, it is you who are dying.
I do not blame you; after all you are following a man who was a narcissist, lecher, pedophile, mass murdered, supremist, racist. Oops! Did I leave out some of his traits? I'm sure I did. Your ability to think is does not exceed that of a reptile. You made just too many claims without substantiating any of them. Typical Muslim behavior.
Infantile, where did you learn your taunting, Dhimmie.
Define narcissism. The prophet (PBUH) has been called many things, never a narcissist LOL. I guess you would argue that all leaders or Prophets were narcissist according to your flawed understanding and poorly attributed traits, I should know, Psychology is my field. Distasteful. A book entitled The 100: A Ranking of the Most Influential Persons in History, Micheal Hart listed Mohammed (PBUH) as the most influential person in history. Historian Willam McNeil said that he was worthy to be in the top three. Were they Islamic narcissistic?
"My choice of Muhammad to lead the list of the world's most influential persons may surprise some readers and may be questioned by others, but he was the only man in history who was supremely successful on both the religious and secular level."
Micheal Hart
This information that is following your grotesque, ignorant assumptions are for clarification purposes only, if it were about you, I wouldn't waste my time.
Let's run through all of your assaults. First, I will show the perspectives of Muhammed (PBUH) from a few orientalist and historian perspectives including Hindu persons. It is important to list these perspectives because it presents an unbiast, early, primal, understanding of Muhammad(PBUH) and Islam that was often filled with negative European supremacist arguments.
"Our authorities, all agree in ascribing to the youth of Mohammad a modesty of deportment and purity
of manners rare among the people of Makkah. The fair character and honorable bearing of the unobtrusive," (Sir William Muir, Historian).
"Our current hypothesis about Mahomet, that he was a scheming Impostor, a Falsehood incarnate, that his religion is a mere mass of quackery and fatuity, begins really to be now untenable to any one. The lies, which well-meaning zeal has heaped round this man, are disgraceful to ourselves only . . . The word this man spoke has been the life-guidance now of a hundred and eighty millions of men these twelve hundred years. These hundred and eighty millions were made by God as well as we . . . Are we to suppose that it was a miserable piece of spiritual legerdemain, this which so many creatures of the Almighty have lived by and died by? I, for my part, cannot form any such supposition . . . One would be entirely at a loss what to think of this world at all, if quackery so grew and were sanctioned here . . . more godless theory, I think, was never promulgated in this Earth. A false man found a religion? Why, a false man cannot build a brick house! . . . it will fall straightway." [Carlyle 1840]
"But, from an early age, he had been remarked as a thoughtful man. His
companions named him "_Al Amin_, The Faithful." A man of truth and
fidelity; true in what he did, in what he spake and thought. They noted
that _he_ always meant something. A man rather taciturn in speech; silent
when there was nothing to be said; but pertinent, wise, sincere, when he
did speak; always throwing light on the matter. This is the only sort of
speech _worth_ speaking! Through life we find him to have been regarded as
an altogether solid, brotherly, genuine man. A serious, sincere character;
yet amiable, cordial, companionable, jocose even;--a good laugh in him
withal: there are men whose laugh is as untrue as anything about them; who
cannot laugh. One hears of Mahomet's beauty: his fine sagacious honest
face, brown florid complexion, beaming black eyes;--I somehow like too that
vein on the brow, which swelled up black when he was in anger: like the
"_horseshoe_ vein" in Scott's _Redgauntlet_. It was a kind of feature in
the Hashem family, this black swelling vein in the brow; Mahomet had it
prominent, as would appear. A spontaneous, passionate, yet just,
true-meaning man! Full of wild faculty, fire and light; of wild worth, all
uncultured; working out his life-task in the depths of the Desert there"(Caryle 1840)
"THE LIES, WHICH WELL-MEANING ZEAL HAS
HEAPED ROUND THIS MAN, ARE DISGRACEFUL TO
OURSELVES ONLY."
Thomas Carlyle
"AS THERE IS NO DANGER OF OUR BECOMING,
ANY OF US, MAHOMETANS, 2 I MEAN TO SAY
ALL THE GOOD OF HIM I JUSTLY CAN."
Thomas Carlyle
"HISTORY MAKES IT CLEAR HOWEVER, THAT
THE LEGEND OF FANATICAL MUSLIMS SWEEP-
ING THROUGH THE WORLD AND FORCING
ISLAM AT THE POINT OF THE SWORD UPON
CONQUERED RACES IS ONE OF THE MOST
FANTASTICALLY ABSURD MYTHS THAT
HISTORIANS HAVE EVER REPEATED."
De Lacy O'Leary
"If greatness of purpose, smallness of means, and astounding results are the three criteria of human genius, who could dare to compare any great man in modern history with Muhammad? The most famous men created arms, laws and empires only. They founded, if anything at all, no more than material powers which often crumbled away before their eyes. This man moved not only armies, legislations, empires, peoples and dynasties, but millions of men in one-third of the then inhabited world; and more than that, he moved the altars, the gods, the religions, the ideas, the beliefs and souls. . . his forbearance in victory, his ambition, which was entirely devoted to one idea and in no manner striving for an empire; his endless prayers, his mystic conversations with God, his death and his triumph after death; all these attest not to an imposture but to a firm conviction which gave him the power to restore a dogma. This dogma was twofold, the unity of God and the immateriality of God; the former telling what God is, the latter telling what God is not; the one overthrowing false gods with the sword, the other starting an idea with words.
"Philosopher, orator, apostle, legislator, warrior, conqueror of ideas, restorer of rational dogmas, of a cult without images; the founder of twenty terrestrial empires and of one spiritual empire, that is Muhammad. As regards all standards by which human greatness may be measured, we may well ask, is there any man greater than he?"
Lamartine, HISTOIRE DE LA TURQUIE, Paris, 1854, Vol. II, pp. 276-277.
"It is impossible for anyone who studies the life and character of the great Prophet of Arabia, who knows how he taught and how he lived, to feel anything but reverence for that mighty Prophet, one of the great messengers of the Supreme. And although in what I put to you I shall say many things which may be familiar to many, yet I myself feel whenever I re-read them, a new way of admiration, a new sense of reverence for that mighty Arabian teacher."
Annie Besant, THE LIFE AND TEACHINGS OF MUHAMMAD,Madras,1932, p. 4.
"The league of nations founded by the prophet of Islam put the principle of international unity and human brotherhood on such universal foundations as to show candle to other nations." He continues: "The fact is that no nation of the world can show a parallel to what Islam has done towards the realization of the idea of theLeague of Nations."
Prof. C. Snouck Hurgronje
"He was Caesar and Pope in one; but he was Pope without Pope's pretensions, Caesar without the legions of Caesar: without a standing army, without a bodyguard, without a palace, without a fixed revenue; if ever any man had the right to say that he ruled by the right divine, it was Mohammed, for he had all the power without its instruments and without its supports."
Bosworth Smith, MOHAMMAD AND MOHAMMADANISM, London, 1874, p. 92.
"Four years after the death of Justinian, A.D. 569, was born at Mecca, in Arabia the man who, of all men exercised the greatest influence upon the human race . . . Mohammed . . ."
John William Draper, A History of the Intellectual Development of Europe, London 1875, Vol. 1, pp. 329-330.
"I have always held the religion of Muhammad in high estimation because of its wonderful vitality. It
is the only religion, which appears to me to possess that assimilating capacity to the changing phase of
existence, which can make itself appeal to every age. I have studied him - the wonderful man and in
my opinion for from being an anti-Christ, he must be called the Savior of Humanity."
George Bernard Shaw
"His readiness to undergo persecutions for his beliefs, the high moral character of the men who believed in him and looked up to him as leader, and the greatness of his ultimate achievement - all argue his fundamental integrity. To suppose Muhammad an impostor raises more problems than it solves. Moreover, none of the great figures of history is so poorly appreciated in the West as Muhammad."
W. Montgomery Watt, MOHAMMAD AT MECCA, Oxford, 1953, p. 52
"Certainly he had two of the most important characteristics of the prophetic order. He saw truth about
God which his fellowmen did not see, and he had an irresistible inward impulse to publicize this truth."
Dr. Marcus Dods,
"It is strongly corroborative of Mohammad's sincerity that the earliest converts of Islam were his bosom friends and the people of his household, who all intimately acquainted with his private life, could not fail to have detected those discrepancies which more or less invariably exist between the pretensions of the hypocritical deceiver and his actions at home….."
John Davenport
"With all that simplicity which is so natural to a great mind, he performed the humblest offices whose homeliness it would be idle to conceal with pompous diction; even while Lord of Arabia, he mended his own shoes and coarse woolen garments, milked the ewes, swept the hearth, and kindled the fire. Dates and water were his usual fare and milk and honey his luxuries. When he traveled he divided his morsel with the servant. The sincerity of his exhortations to benevolence was justified at his death by
the exhausted state of his coffers." W. Montgomery Watt writes in his "Mohammad at Makkah": "His readiness to undergo persecution for his beliefs, the high moral character of the men who believed in him and looked up to him as leader, and the greatness of his ultimate achievement - all argue his fundamental integrity. To suppose Muhammad as imposter raises more problems than it solves. Moreover, none of the great figures of history is so poorly appreciated in the West as Muhammad.
Thus, not merely must we credit Muhammad with essential honesty and integrity of purpose, if we are to understand him at all: if we are to correct the errors we have inherited from the past."
John Davenport
Let's hit a little closer to home:
"I wanted to know the best of one who holds today's undisputed sway over the hearts of millions of mankind....I became more than convinced that it was not the sword that won a place for Islam in those days in the scheme of life. It was the rigid simplicity, the utter self-effacement of the Prophet, the scrupulous regard for his pledges, his intense devotion to this friends and followers, his intrepidity, his fearlessness, his absolute trust in God and in his own mission. These and not the sword carried everything before them and surmounted every obstacle. When I closed the 2nd volume (of the Prophet's biography), I was sorry there was not more for me to read of the great life."
Mahatma Gandhi
"Muhammad was the soul of kindness, and his influence was felt and never forgotten by those around him."
Diwan Chand Sharma
The personality of Muhammad, it is most difficult to get into the whole truth of it. Only a glimpse of it I can catch. What a dramatic succession of picturesque scenes! There is Muhammad, the Prophet. There is Muhammad, the Warrior; Muhammad, the Businessman; Muhammad, the Statesman; Muhammad, the Orator; Muhammad, the Reformer; Muhammad, the Refuge of Orphans; Muhammad, the Protector of Slaves; Muhammad, the Emancipator of Women; Muhammad, the Judge; Muhammad, the Saint.
All in all these magnificent roles, in all these departments of human activities, he is alike a hero."
Prof. Ramakrishna Rao
"It was the first religion that preached and practiced democracy; for in the mosque, when the call for prayer is sounded and worshippers are gathered together, the democracy of Islam is embodied five times a day when the peasant and king kneel side by side and proclaim: 'God Alone is Great'… I have been struck over and over again by this indivisible unity of Islam that makes man instinctively a brother."
Sarogini Naidu
Since you know the meaning of my name, you should know the meaning of Muhammad, or Ahmed; Praiseworthy is the best translation. It was his character before he was proclaimed a prophet that earned him this name. Let's look at historical perspectives:
"Our authorities, all agree in ascribing to the youth of Mohammad a modesty of deportment and purity
of manners rare among the people of Makkah. The fair character and honorable bearing of the unobtrusive," (Sir William Muir, Historian).
Your lies can't rewrite history. When the prophet took over Mecca not a single civilan was killed? The Arabs were told, go to your houses and you would be safe. I would challenge this equivalence in history. You could start looking at yours which is riddled with war and bloodshed with your own societies.
It is undisputed, for the educated, that Mohammed (PBUH) was known among his people to be trustworthy, exceptional in character, and an arbitrator. He was a merchant and dealt with people with justice and humility, this is why Khadija was interested in him. SHE PROPSED TO HIM! It wasn't the other way around; you are distorting history for your own evil motives. Furthermore, he did not become a prophet until he was forty which means he lived a lifetime among his people upholding this character.
"Until her death twenty-six years later Mohammed lived with Khadija in a monogamous condition highly unusual for a Moslem of means, but perhaps natural in their recipient. She bore him some daughters, of whom the most famous was Fatima, and two sons who died in infancy. He consoled his grief by adopting Ali, the orphan son of Abu Talib. Khadija was a good woman, a good wife, a good merchant; she remained loyal to Mohammed through all his spiritual vicissitudes; and amid all his wives he remembered her as the best".
Annie Besant
"But do you mean to tell me that the man who in the full flush of youthful vigour, a young man of four and twenty (24), married a woman much his senior, and remained faithful to her for six and twenty years (26), at fifty years of age when the passions are dying married for lust and sexual passion? Not thus are men's lives to be judged. And you look at the women whom he married, you will find that by every one of them an alliance was made for his people, or something was gained for his followers, or the woman was in sore need of protection."
Annie Besant
It was well known to educated individuals that Khadija was of love of the prophet's (PBUH) life and you contest that he married her money? What an absurd, idiotic statement, that has no historical substantiation.
'Ali, may Allah be pleased with him, reported:
I heard Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) as saying: The best of the women of the world of her time was Mary, daughter of 'Imran, and the best of the women of her time was Khadijah bint Khuwailid.
'A'ishah, may Allah be pleased with her, reported:
Halah bint Khuwailid (sister of Khadijah) sought permission from Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) to see him and he was reminded of Khadijah's manner of asking permission to enter and (was overwhelmed) with emotions thereby and said: O Allah, it is Halah bint Khuwailid and I felt jealous and said: why do you remember one of those old women of the Quraish with red gums and who is long dead while Allah has given you a better one in her stead.
In Sahih Bukhari Hadith: 5.166 Ayesha herself narrates:
"I did not feel jealous of any of the wives of the Prophet as much as I did of Khadija though I did not see her, but the Prophet used to mention her very often, and whenever he slaughtered a sheep, he would cut its parts and send them to the women friends of Khadija. When I sometimes said to him, "(You treat Khadija in such a way) as if there is no woman on earth except Khadija," he would say, "Khadija was such-and-such, and from her I had children."
For the record, your ancestors were not conquered during the life time of the Prophet (PBUH) as many areas were not. The Islamic empire expanded greatly after his death. During his lifetime it was his mission to dispel paganism from the land and he did this in less than 20 years with minimal blood shed which is remarkable. There are not many historians that dispute the unprecedented mercy of Muhammad's army during war.
"...Forced now to fight in defense of the freedom of conscience which he preached, he became an
accomplished military leader, Although he repeatedly went into battle outnumbered and out speared
as much as five to one, he won some spectacular victories."
James A. Michener , "Islam: The Misunderstood Religion", observes:
"The day of Mohammad's greatest triumph over his enemies was also the day of his grandest victory over himself. He freely forgave the Koraysh all the years of sorrow and cruel scorn in which they had afflicted him and gave an amnesty to the whole population of Makkah. Four criminals whom justice condemned made up Mohammad's proscription list, when he entered as a conqueror to the city of his bitterest enemies. The army followed his example, and entered quietly and peacefully; no house was
robbed, no women insulted. One thing alone suffered destruction. Going to the Kaaba, Mohammad stood before each of the three hundred and sixty idols, and pointed to it with his staff, saying, ‘Truth has come and falsehood has fled away!' and at these words his attendants hewed them down, and all the idols and household gods of Makkah and round about were destroyed. It was thus Mohammad entered again his native city, through all the annals of conquest there is no triumphant entry comparable
to this one."
Stanley Lane-Poole "The Speeches and Table Talk of the Prophet Mohammad"
The proofs are endless that nullifies your slanders against him.
Volume 004, Book 052, Hadith Number 257.
Narrated By 'Abdullah : During some of the Ghazawat of the Prophet a woman was found killed. Allah's Apostle disapproved the killing of women and children.
Yahya related to me from Malik from Ibn Shihab that a son of Kab ibn Malik (Malik believed that ibn Shihab said it was Abd ar-Rahman ibn Kab) said, "The Messenger of Allah, may Allah bless him and grant him peace, forbade those who fought ibn Abi Huqayq (a treacherous jew from Madina) to kill women and children. He said that one of the men fighting had said, 'The wife of ibn Abi Huqayq began screaming and I repeatedly raised my sword against her. Then I would remember the prohibition of the Messenger of Allah, may Allah bless him and grant him peace, so I would stop. Had it not been for that, we would have been rid of her.'"
Yahya related to me from Malik from Yahya ibn Said that Abu Bakr as-Siddiq was sending armies to ash-Sham. He went for a walk with Yazid ibn Abi Sufyan who was the commander of one of the battalions. It is claimed that Yazid said to Abu Bakr, "Will you ride or shall I get down?" Abu Bakrsaid, "I will not ride and you will not get down. I intend these steps of mine to be in the way of Allah."
Then Abu Bakr advised Yazid, "You will find a people who claim to have totally given themselves to Allah. Leave them to what they claim to have given themselves. You will find a people who have shaved the middle of their heads, strike what they have shaved with the sword.
"I advise you ten things| Do not kill women or children or an aged, infirm person. Do not cut down fruit-bearing trees. Do not destroy an inhabited place. Do not slaughter sheep or camels except for food. Do not burn bees and do not scatter them. Do not steal from the booty, and do not be cowardly."
The more you speak, it only further convinces of your abysmal ignorance. Then we come to the perceived reason of your anger, the expansion of the Islamic empire to India. I would say first that Muhammad (PBUH) did not order this exploit, it fact it was much later under the Ottoman Empire when this happened.
Furthermore, the first experience that Indians had with Hindus was through trade. There were no problems between these two groups until Indian Pirates began seizing ships. Despite this problem, Muslims settled in India and developed Mosques before any invasion of the Turks.
Additionally, it is noteworthy that the majority of converters to Islam were individuals of the lower cast systems. You have gone through great lengths to prove that the texts of Hinduism does not support other mentioned problems, will respond in part II, however you cannot deny that the cast system is and was an integral part of Hinduism. It then makes since, why so many Hindu's who would other wise have to accept life as an untouchable, would then choose the freedom of Islam.
If I were a Hindu, I would be the last person speaking of child pedophilia. It's interesting that this is also a term that he was not called by Historians. It is because it is simply inaccurate. Pedophilia is a compulsive disorder. People who experience this disorder are attracted to young girls. There interaction with these girls is a form of sadism that is quite contemporary and manly isolated in Western states, although it exists everywhere. In short, if he was a pedophile all of his wives would have been six; it clear that Ayesha was a great exception to his norm, and the norm of his followers. In fact she was his only virgin wife.
Additionally, it is important to judge a society based on the norms that were prevalent, a common anthropologic idea. It was not uncommon for girls at a very young age to marry in Arab society over 1500 years ago. There are explanations that include the shortage of women due to the pagan Arabs burial of their daughters. To prove this argument Ayesha was engaged to another Jubayr ibn Mut'im before Muhammed's (PBUH) marriage to Ayesha. In addition, His marriage to her was not taboo in his society. Further proof of this is that Muhammad(PBUH) was not called a name or criticized for this marriage by his enemies. This marriage was not formed by an abnormal attraction to young girls.
It is noteworthy that her Father Abu Bakr and her mother, not only approved of this marriage, but was honored. Were they pedophiles too?
Lastly, The marriage of Aisha and Muhammed, was preformed in Heaven. He was told by Allah that she would be his wife. This is the very reason why they did not have a marriage ceremony, only the Walima that came after. He didn't seek her out because of a compulsive attraction to young girls.
You should look at your history in relation to child brides from a young a 3 years old. This practice is still very prevalent. More than is any Islamic society, only, a divorced child can remarry as where a divorced child according to your religion would never be able to marry again. She might as well set herself on fire, right? India has a long list of Human rights abuses against women and children, have you heard the saying "Don't throw stones at a house if yours in made of glass"?
I will leave that for Part II
You lie and state that Muslims had nothing to do with the independence of India? What a blatant lie! Mahatma Gandhi worked with both Muslims and Hindus in not only expelling the British, but in achieving peace between the Muslims and Hindus. Hindus felt that he was favoring Muslims and he was killed! Yes, Gandhi was killed by a Hindu, go figure.
Furthermore, it is not until Muslims, who wanted their own state, decided to partition themselves from India when all hell broke loose. This is the reason for the current conflict today and your learned hate of Muslims and Pakistani's. You hate freedom! This is what contributed to the horror stories in Kashmir and the Muslim Hindu riots that clamed thousands of people. Innocent Hindu's… Why are they killing Christians now? Why are they burning churches? Do you deny it? I am not an Eastern historian, but I have read books of a few.
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