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Ah, good now we get to the meat of things...

Reader comment on item: Those Danish Cartoons and Me
in response to reader comment: to Chris G

Submitted by Chris G.` (United States), Jul 7, 2007 at 19:26

1. They have a lot of extremists in Europe but again you are lumping them all together as one and the same. I have never been against any European nation (or our own nation) from deporting radical Muslim immigrants. I support this. Better now then later when they have their citizenship. This way, extremism will not become ingrained in their Islamic communities and it will never become the crisis that you predict. Oh and no, nobody is paying me. I'm actually quite poor believe it or not. Its funny because Wahhabis ask me the same thing (If the CIA or Mossad is paying me). It's a nice way to refute someone's article by drumming up suspicion amongst the readers.
I also do not sell Mohammed. Again I am not a Muslim and I am against extremism in any religion. You can insist all you want otherwise but it does not change who I am.

2. Read you history Sir. Most Japanese Americans were held in internment camps until after the war. That was a conventional war that had a fairly definite ending in sight. THIS is NOT WWII. What you're talking about is going to war against an entire religion made up of hundreds of millions of people that would be a mostly unconventional war with no clear ending. You also of coarse leave out the sticky problem of re-writing our constitution so that we can deport our own Muslim citizens including our native born black and white citizens who were born in America, who have no family connections to the Middle East, but who are Muslim converts.

3. Explain to me how these millions of people all over the world became Muslims and how this method will work on our Muslim population? (keep in mind that many millions more did NOT convert to Islam on the Indian sub-continent. Likewise not everyone converted in the Middle East or Africa or Indonesia. Also the manner of conversion is not uniform at all throughout history. Some periods were bloody and some were rather peaceful conversions in large part due to the influence of Sufism. If we forcefully convert Muslims (as I'm assuming that you're suggesting) and it works, then we should also forcefully convert Atheists and Jews who refuse to accept Jesus Christ as their Lord and Savior. It is for their own good and for salvation for their souls eternally to be with God rather then burning with Satan. Is that not so? Or are Jews automatically saved? I know you're not Christian, but you better start thinking like one if you want to use militant Christianity to convert Muslims. Be careful what you wish for.

4. You do not answer the question of how to convince Christians that they should become militant and that Jesus Christ commanded them to do so. Again I know that you're not Christian and if you want America to get back to its roots, then which roots do you mean? Native America pagan religions are its true roots. Or do you mean Protestant Christianity? In that case, we'd have to convert all the Jews as well. Likewise with Egypt, before Christianity, it followed pagan religions with Pharoahs as living Gods.

5. Again you do not answer the question sir and just try to make fun of me. It shows that your mind is not engaged in critical thinking. I sure hope that you don't teach "logic".

6. Again, still no logical answer, just more ranting against Islam. There are tons of secularists here in America which include many Christians who are not evangelical and who believe in a nation of tolerance because again, that is what this nation is founded upon. If we preach against tolerance, then we should wipe out every minority group that gives us problems including massive segments of the African-American and Hispanic population who refuse to act like good Protestant Christian White folk and who fill our jail systems. Why should we tolerate them? Especially all these new immigrants from Mexico. How about all these Hindu Indians who just refuse to assimilate and are taking all of our high tech jobs (and teaching jobs in our universities) as if our jobs going to India wasn't enough? Once you start preaching against tolerance and we go down the path of hardcore intolerant Christian evangelical militancy, be careful my friend or you may as well become victim of your own hatred. Karma is a bitch.

7. Well at least you honestly answer this question in that you don't know how to deal with "my ilk". However I know already what would probably happen to "my ilk". I would likely be jailed, oppressed, or deported . I also should point out that I DO NOT sympathize with Islamic extremists. My research is devoted to fighting against them, but using smart and peaceful methods that are geared to change the core of their beliefs rather then using blind violence and hatred as you seek to unleash.

8. Wow, you answer my question well even though you may not realize it. So Mexicans are all muck who do not assimilate? Where I live there are tons of Mexican Americans who have assimilated just fine and whose values are actually extremely similar to mainstream white America. Likewise I know many Muslims who have assimilated very well especially those who are 2nd or 3rd generation Muslims. They are currently seeking to craft a new identity for themselves that is uniquely American but also Islamic. You see this movement going on in Muslim Student Associations on college campuses all over the United States. If you stepped out of your shell and spent time around young Muslims in America you would see this. But of coarse if you kept insulting them every time you spoke to them, they wouldn't like you very much... not because they're Muslim, but because you act rather rude towards them. When you act rude towards them, normative human behavior is to act rude back towards you. This in turn, reaffirms your belief that they are evil people. This in psychology is known as "self-fulfilling prophecy." It is sadly quite common for humans to engage in this form of rationale.

I have already lived in Saudi Arabia. It's a beautiful country, but I don't care for their ultra-conservative wahhbist interpretations of Islamic Law. I also wouldn't want 4 wives. One wife is more then enough for me. America is MY country and I love this country. I will fight to see that it does not self-destruct from within and turn into a tyranny as you seem to want to turn it into in the name of fear and hatred.
I am a Deist but I truly believe in the call of Jesus Christ to fight our enemies with love, mercy, and forgiveness. But I am not some blind believer in dogma. I believe in self-defense and I believe in being pragmatic. If one thing doesn't work, then you shift strategies. Our nation sadly lacks leadership that is capable of rapidly shifting strategies. If everything I proposed was tried sincerely and it all failed to produce results with only increased Islamic extremism growing everywhere, then I might even begin to seriously consider the draconian measures you think are necessary. I am a military man and have never been a pure pacifist.
But anyone who truly understands the nature of warfare knows that it is a horrific thing and something left as a last resort, especially when it could possibly involve committing genocide and the slaughter of our own countrymen.

Wow.... When did say that I live to see the day that Mexicans are against my own people? Please show me where I said that? I am saying that if we promote intolerance, that the logical conclusion of what you propose will be that Mexican Americans will be intolerant towards non-hispanics unless we round up everyone of hispanic descent and deport them as well. If we continue as a tolerant nation, yes hispanics in America will still become the dominant race. However that does not mean things will change much because generally speaking, they integrate fairly well. Yes they are changing American culture somewhat, but they are being changed as well by American culture and so you see a blend of cultures. This is not a bad thing. We are a nation of immigrants so this has always been the case. Mexican-Americans ARE my people. So are Jewish Americans, Asian Americans, Arab Americans, African Americans, European Americans and every other type of Americans. They are all MY people. That's why I love America. The diversity is just mind-boggling. To me that is what makes America great and worth fighting for. It's not just a flag, its not our President. What makes America are the people who I am proud to call my countrymen and the beautiful land on which we live. Look around my friend. We live in a diverse nation. If you wish to change that and take us back 100 years to a nation of extreme intolerance, then I am afraid that perhaps you may wish to live in a different nation that has such ideas. Ironically, Saudi Arabia is the only one that comes to mind. Even Israel is very tolerant, so if you are Jewish, I'm afraid you are out of luck.

Although you keep insisting, I do not identify myself with Islam although I feel perfectly comfortable around Muslims. I grew up partly in Muslim countries. Likewise with Mexicans, I've grown up partly in parts of the United States with large Mexican American populations and have always had Mexican American neighbors so I'm perfectly at ease with those cultures. To me they are all human beings worthy of understanding as fellow human beings. In my vision of America, we tolerate those like yourself. In your vision of America, there is no room for Americans like myself.

I've lived in and traveled all over the Islamic world and would not describe the human beings I met there as"muck". I have seen human beings in those nations who have many of the same dreams and aspirations as your average American. On rare occasions I have met bad people, but generally I have met wonderful and good people much as I have in almost every country I have traveled to. Also I'll repeat myself by saying that you can pray as a Jew and Christian in Saudi Arabia. You just can't open up churches and synagogues or temples of any other faith. I don't agree with that, but that is something that will take time to change in Saudi Arabia. There also is the history of colonialism in the region and a serious mismatch of power making that whole region react with hostility towards America threatening them to make changes "or else." They have their pride as most human cultures do, and do not like being ordered around by other countries especially when it is done using threats.
Yes it is true that women can't drive in Saudi Arabia and its stupid. To my knowledge, Saudi Arabia is the only Muslim country where women aren't allowed to drive. Again you keep lumping all Muslims together with Salafi/Wahhabi Muslims. Even Salafis can be very different with some more moderate then others in their beliefs. In all the other Muslim countries I've been to, women drove cars quite freely.
I've talked to Saudis who very much wanted to modernize their country futher and give women more rights because they believe the current laws governing women are more based on tribal culture rather than on Islamic law. You also keep saying that I'm confusing Islam with culture. I'm not confusing them at all. I'm acknowledging the fact that religion and culture are intertwined. They are not two isolated factors. Culture has profoundly influenced and altered how Islam has been practiced since its very beginnings. I am not concerned with whether Islam was right or wrong at its origin. My concern is how it has been practiced all through history leading up to today and whether the traditional theology exists to refute Islamic extremists. I found that it does. My main focus is with changing attitudes and perceptions in the Islamic world towards the United States to much more positive ones so that we may encourage them in a positive manner. This means encouraging them (with many positive incentives) to modernize their laws, fix their human rights issues, and to rid themselves of extremists so that we may have good economic and diplomatic relationships.

Or...we can take the pure hatred you preach and go to war with their religion and massacre millions who refuse to convert to Christianity. Its scary to me that you teach multivariate statistics because I am sure that you must occasionally get Muslim students and other minorities. I would hate to be that student in your class. Do you fail them because of their religion? Do urge them to get out of this country?
It really scares me that someone with a PhD can be that irrational. But I guess it just goes to show that education and intelligence does not mean wisdom or expertise in all areas.
You remind me of the economics professor I talked to once who was convinced that ultimately we are all numbers and commodities and that human factors like fear, hunger, oppression, etc... ultimately are just measures to be calculated for our economic benefit. There was no compassion whatsoever in his view of the poor here and around the world. You remind me of him.

Anyways, I hope and pray that one day you will rid yourself of your hatred or that you meet some good Muslims who are patient with you and who show you how good Muslims are supposed to act and live.

Chris G.

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