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The lights are going out all over europe tonight

Reader comment on item: Zionism's Bleak Present
in response to reader comment: IS THIS OUR FATE?

Submitted by Antonia Gilligan (United States), Jan 26, 2008 at 01:00

I refuse to accept the decline of the "West."

When the First World War ignited, in August 1914, The forgien minister of Great Britian, Lord Grey declared the lights were going out all over Europe. The lights of progress temporially extinguished by the conflict. Again we face an existential threat to our culture, our homes and family. The evil springs from the belief that a religion is the way. If Islam is the response what was the question?

Let me be blunt. The "West" and by that I mean Ancient Greece, Rome, Canada, Austarlia, Ameraica and Europe have been the engine for progress for thousands of years. No culture has a monoplogy of progress or goodness But the "West" has given the world an invention, the free man who decides his own fate. The Greeks invention, that no citizen would bow to an eastern god-ruler, Darius or his son Xeres. What a shock , simple Greek telling an empire that they would not pay tribute. As the male greek citizens knew they would fight to protect their homes from a God King who must be obeyed..

Islam is just another "god" theocracy, where knaves and fools, follow a text without recourse to reason. The "West" is painted as war like. Was it the West that conquer Christain Syria in the eight century? What had the Hindus done to deserve the Moguls' years of cruelity, impossing Islam of infidels. Recall that Hindus could not "rely" on their Dihimi status to save them. "There is no complusion in religion" says the Koran.. Tell that to the Coptic Christians who live in fear in modern Egypt. Tell that to the Zorasterians. Yes, you don't know about them. Zorasterism, the religion of the ancient Persians. It was extinguished by Islam. They are the inventors of cultural imperialism.

Oh and Spain was a model of Islamic grace. I'm sure the Goths had no problem with a series of raids attaching them. The raids seeking plunder and slaves. Islam, the religion where slavery is still practiced, slowly destroying a state that had never attached Islam.

Let me tell you about the West. Inperialism, we didn't invent it. What would you call an army of bedoiuns seeking plunder under a religious banner. An Islamic invasion. Tell the Berbers of North Aferica that they were blessed in being conquer by the Arabs. The Arabs were soon conquered by the Turks. The Turks ruled over then since the 12 century. The closing years of 19th and early 20th century saw Britain and France provide the Islamic world excuse for their record of current cultural and economic stagnation. The European involvement last no more that 85 years. Yet ,the centuries of rule as a conquer people by their coreligious, the Turks" didn't degrade their culture at all did it.

It was all the fault of who ? America , Israel, Britian, France... Centuries of being abused by Ottoman rule is forgotten by the politically correct. They cry instead that they are the victims of the "West." They tell of the history of blood shed. Let me state clearly, we all have bloody hands. To to have a selective menory about it is almost Islamic. What happened when the Seljurk Turks conquered Jeresulem from the Arabs. The fall of Antioch results in the rivers runnig red according to the Turkish history with the last Christian blood in the area. Yes, now we have the Islamic response with Balck September, Munich, where the "West: stood helpless. The Germans allowed them to escape and have never attempted to capture the murders. So Islam blames who? Israel, for defending it citizens.

While they were studying the Koran, the west discovered that knowledge is power (Francis Bacon). That knowledge, based upon factual, evidence or experimental proof was an engine for, "Enlightenment." Islam being the "perfection" of Allah's mercy.. had no need for progress. No new works of theology were needed. Mohammed had closed the book, so to speak. And since we would die shortly, better to pray 5 times a day ...etc... The use of rote knowledge over free enquiry is a virture in Islam.

Let me remind you that science is the gift the "west "have given our fellows. All cultures have dabbled inthe sciences math astromomy etc. But only the "west" transformed science from thr work of a few self supported elites to a practice done though out the culture for pay. The "West" has cured more disease with knowledge that all the souls saved by Islamic prayer. What do you want penicillin or prayer beads and fatwas?

As for women, the "West" has been in the forefront recognizining the errors of past world discrimination. We are told how Islam is so progressive for woman, protecting them. Protecting them with the veil, protecting them by allowing only men to start divorce proceedings. Allowing males to ALWAYs have child custody since this is Islamic. Islan insists upon Islamic astromomy to protect the Koran. We are told in school,by the poltically correct that the arabs ivented our numbers. What a carnard. Our numbers are a gift from the Hindus, thank you. They delevoped Algebra. Yes, they had a primitive of algebra but they didn't have the concept of zero. Again an idea from ancient Greece and India. Hey. guys the earth goes around the sun. It has has been doing it for 4.5 billions years. It was the "West "that discover this

By allowing peiople to live without divine dictates, the "West" has allowed then to seek their own future. Their own future for good or ill. A future with promise and peril, but a future where each has the choice to be the mistress of her own ship. The "West" knows we are human, full of promise and potential of great evil. Tolerance is Western not Islamic. Sharia gives us dead bodies from suicide bombers "Honor Killings", capital punishmint for heresy. As for sexual minorities, gay men lesbian can expect what. Visit Chop Chop Square. apologists will decalre this is islamic baiting since so few are actually killed. As few sound like their concern for the rights of indivual s are predicated Hersey has died in the "West" What are the Islamic Nobel prize winners? Where are the guiding lights of progress from the Islamic world.

So lets here it for the "WEST " not as the perfect form of goverment , the brillant culture and such but as a cizilization where future progress is possible. Where change is possible and now a constant.

The West gave the world the germ theory of disease saving billio0ns. Islam has voiced is need for female circumcision with subsequent female multiulation and worse

The West gave us footprints on the moon, while Imans in Nigeria frustrate the erradication of polio. Being for Polio is not the mark of a culture with a future.

The" West" is aplace in our mind and culture but also a geographical location. As I last looked Islamic people aren't stayin put but seeking the advantage we create. How many Westerners long to be under Saudi control? How many Canadians are lining up to move to Egypt. So here we have it. The big bad "West" the place they want to live.

Yes, the "West" that invented the computer,(digital not a bunch of beads on a string) ,aviation, space flight, the automobile, the internet, a host of modern vaccines, modern sanation, the breaking of the gentic code. Think about that! For the first time ,we, mankind are on the doorstep of directing our evolution.

The "West" gave us constitutions, political rights not religious dictates. Islam has given us Chop Chop Square. Islam the theology that inhibits more woman than any other belief on earth

Islam, that demand its believers should seek to inpress upon the Dhmimi, that they are not equal. They may live, paying a pole tax for the pleasure of being oppressed.

It is the "West " that thought of man as living, in a unversise of infinite posibilities. Possibilities based upon individualism rational thought, property ownership, open discourse on all issues, transparency in law and business, open inquiry and freedom, to think as the person directs. Has the millenium come? No, but progress is more important than spirtual perfection. Let Islam rule in heaven but get your blood covered hands off of me on earth!

As a woman who's father fought in the WWII to cull the evil of Nazism, As a woman with two sons who served in the miltary. One was stationed in Saudi Arabis to protect it form other muslim states, Iran and Iraq. The same son who was on the pile at Ground Zero (69th " The Fighting Irish" )on 9/11. So much for being appreciated for saving these fools from each other. A woman who lives 1.2 miles from Ground Zero., a woman who saw the logical conclusion of Islam. As thousands died in the city I was born in, I realized, I too had forgeotten this lesson. "Freedon ain't free".

So I speak for the "West". I speak for faultering steps of material and cultural progress. I also cry out the words "Let's Role" as the Americans on United 93 did. They fought. They died to spare us from another "ground zero" Yes, Let's role over these speedbumps to energy independce. Let's aid small liberal democracies, like Israel. How many Europeans have died at Israeli hands? How many Europeans have died at Islamic hands.? Do the Math. It ain't difficult.

The "West:" almost lost in 1939. Let us guard ourselves from the "peace" at any price of the fearful. Life is a risk and I will risk living it ,standing up with no bowing to Mecca...Let's roll. ...

This war of civilizations isn't over and I know not where it will go but I know no diety on my side. I know of no God who will forgive me for killing innocents.


Note: Opinions expressed in comments are those of the authors alone and not necessarily those of Daniel Pipes. Original writing only, please. Comments are screened and in some cases edited before posting. Reasoned disagreement is welcome but not comments that are scurrilous, off-topic, commercial, disparaging religions, or otherwise inappropriate. For complete regulations, see the "Guidelines for Reader Comments".

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Reader comments (113) on this item

Title Commenter Date Thread
How far they go [229 words]J. SteinNov 3, 2009 18:31164017
Burg praises pseudo-historical book by Shlomo Sand [112 words]JasonNov 1, 2009 18:04163937
Zionism [65 words]David GueirosNov 7, 2007 15:10113352
Israel shares the same conundrum as the rest of the west. [584 words]HomefrontOct 22, 2007 20:54112161
There won't be an Islamic world government. [321 words]KateyOct 26, 2007 15:04112161
I would never postulate an Islamic world government [168 words]HomefrontOct 27, 2007 05:11112161
Maybe not. [175 words]KatteyOct 27, 2007 21:00112161
Let Arabs prove ancient existence in Israel. [298 words]Kattey WagarOct 22, 2007 12:53112137
Kattey don't bother [423 words]HomefrontOct 22, 2007 21:32112137
Another example of Islamic Historical revisionist nonsense [44 words]HomefrontOct 22, 2007 21:59112137
A Note of Thanks: Very Interesting [438 words]YnnatchkahOct 23, 2007 05:34112137
I agree -- Israel should fight the archaeology issue hard [132 words]Charles MartelOct 23, 2007 12:52112137
Religious beliefs of Muslims. [392 words]Kate WagarOct 25, 2007 18:28112137
Delightful news indeed [46 words]YnnatchkahOct 26, 2007 01:10112137
MPD [206 words]donvanOct 26, 2007 12:35112137
Israel's Sacrifice: Should Stop Right Away [179 words]skmillerOct 19, 2007 11:14111916
Duty of Christians [106 words]Phil GreendOct 18, 2007 22:40111881
The Islamic war on Christianity has been giong on for some time [37 words]Dr RJPOct 22, 2007 12:35111881
1Bush's "Two State Solution" [402 words]Dr. Howard D. GarberOct 18, 2007 04:55111775
Iraqi MP Iyad Jamal Al-Din Video Clips - Backwards Arabs Use Israel as a Pretext - Bless America - On Terrorism - On Secularism - On Democracy [918 words]Sofa SogoodOct 17, 2007 19:26111726
a ray of hope - everyone should see this! [54 words]jennifer solisOct 20, 2007 15:18111726
Good Idea - Requested Fox to Show the Clips -- Would Columbia U Have Invited and Given Him the World Stage for Free Speech? [78 words]Sofa SogoodOct 21, 2007 10:41111726
I don't think so [71 words]jennifer solisOct 24, 2007 14:51111726
Friends that will stick closer than a brother. [346 words]Susan BrowneOct 17, 2007 12:56111698
Friends that will stick closer than a brother [233 words]Harvey LondonOct 18, 2007 13:27111698
We need your encouragement [349 words]Susan BrowneOct 19, 2007 11:19111698
Biblical Christianity and Israel [30 words]Clifford ishiiOct 16, 2007 20:05111654
israel defenceless [13 words]skydiverOct 16, 2007 14:06111611
Israel will survive and Israelis have all the right to live in peace [139 words]Egyptian ChristianOct 15, 2007 12:59111513
ONLY SOLUTION TO PALI-ISRAELI CONFLICT [106 words]Bruce SterlingOct 15, 2007 16:55111513
Bruce Sterling [349 words]shaynaOct 16, 2007 17:00111513
How the palestinians overcome their racism, cultural imperialism and religious intolerance. [87 words]Egyptian ChristianOct 18, 2007 10:53111513
DON'T DESPAIR [79 words]Bruce SterlingOct 15, 2007 08:35111504
A modest proposal [134 words]BobOct 15, 2007 02:24111497
"MEDIA WAR AGAINST ISRAEL: FROM INVERSION OF THE TRUTH TO INVERSION OF REALITY" [1592 words]Sofa SogoodOct 14, 2007 17:17111475
Don't worry about Israel, Dr Pipes ! [232 words]Anne-Marie DelcambreOct 14, 2007 13:47111458
Not just Israel at risk [184 words]lee baileyOct 14, 2007 11:12111439
Why all the fuss about Jewish nationalism ? [507 words]Anne-Marie DelcambreOct 14, 2007 06:55111427
Dhimmitude [162 words]yuval Brandstetter MDOct 16, 2007 01:32111427
Famous Oxford Union Debating Society - Hosting One-Sided "Death to Israel" Debate Starring David Irving, Holocaust Denier and Other Notorious Anti-Semites [184 words]Sofa SogoodOct 13, 2007 20:49111403
Zionist responsibility [114 words]Gene C. SproulOct 13, 2007 18:10111399
Mr. Sproul: maybe your friend should be outraged at what Palestinians have been doing. [733 words]Dr RJPOct 15, 2007 22:45111399
Inconvenient "truths" [392 words]Gene C. SproulOct 16, 2007 18:58111399
"Inconvenient lies? [739 words]Dr RJPOct 18, 2007 14:32111399
Mr Sproul and the inconvenient truths [328 words]HarveyOct 19, 2007 12:33111399
Palestinian Refugees and the "Right of Return [640 words]Gene C. SproulOct 19, 2007 18:23111399
Conservatives see Carter as a coo-coo, too. Want the real scoop? Read Joan Peters [405 words]Dr RJPOct 21, 2007 00:58111399
Harvey: we're on the same page [388 words]Dr RJPOct 22, 2007 12:31111399
"Jerusalem" is mentioned in the Koran....once [170 words]jennifer solisOct 27, 2007 17:33111399
Thank you, Jennifer. Everything you said is true, except... [141 words]Dr RJPOct 29, 2007 14:19111399
Thank you for the correction [140 words]jennifer solisOct 29, 2007 19:45111399
There were NO palestinians in Israel and they're not even "Palestinians" [60 words]marleneMar 14, 2008 04:47111399
A solution [206 words]Paul M. NevilleOct 13, 2007 17:44111397
Add to the bleaker picture - US economy. [411 words]Syed KasimOct 12, 2007 17:09111296
syed [251 words]shaynaOct 13, 2007 18:30111296
Islamic tolerance? Really? [305 words]dhimmi no moreOct 14, 2007 10:55111296
Can you say Entrepreneur [735 words]SSOct 16, 2007 02:19111296
Ayat a sayf and ayat al jzya [49 words]HarryOct 23, 2007 11:59111296
Only solution rule of law, minority and women rights and West to sober up [236 words]Mohamed EljahmiOct 12, 2007 14:56111275
Postpartum Depression [130 words]GnarlodiousOct 12, 2007 11:40111258
If Israelis don't wake up now, there will not be 2025 for them [72 words]BenzionOct 12, 2007 08:52111241
Leading Israeli intellectuals sign petition calling for negotiations with Hamas [461 words]Mladen AndrijasevicOct 12, 2007 03:24111217
Add to the bleaker picture - US economy. [254 words]Syed KasimOct 12, 2007 02:34111215
Live and let live [111 words]Syed KasimOct 12, 2007 01:56111214
Fight fire with fire: make "Islamic fascist" a household word. [448 words]Dr RJPOct 12, 2007 01:22111209
ISRAEL IS A RECOGNIZED SOVEREIGN COUNTRY!!! [415 words]jennifer solisOct 12, 2007 00:22111206
Alas, poor Zionism [102 words]Bob MillerOct 11, 2007 23:52111205
our strenghs and weaknesses [51 words]Dan, AustraliaOct 11, 2007 23:01111202
Zionism's Story a Wonderful Ending [359 words]InfidelOct 11, 2007 22:42111201
like Kosovo [352 words]obilicOct 11, 2007 21:54111196
obilic [468 words]shaynaOct 13, 2007 17:37111196
The problem of Zionism [60 words]Richard D. WittrupOct 11, 2007 19:20111186
Dutch lack of identity, unique Palestinian identity, and Zionism [182 words]Joe MorganOct 11, 2007 18:09111177
you may be surprised [498 words]Yuval Brandstetter MDOct 11, 2007 17:06111172
Don't be such a downer [73 words]Deborah BlumenthalOct 11, 2007 15:57111163
Deborah, dont just talk, do something [43 words]yuval brandstetter MDOct 12, 2007 04:43111163
where Israel went wrong [148 words]Irish SavantOct 11, 2007 15:26111159
regurgitate partisan platitudes much? [193 words]bosOct 11, 2007 19:13111159
I do not agree. Where Israel really went wrong- When it Returned the Sinai to Rely on Big Daddy USA [232 words]James BurkeOct 12, 2007 06:43111159
in re Submitted by Irish Savant (United States), Oct 11, 2007 at 15:26 [243 words]argawargaOct 12, 2007 09:35111159
Women who stand with Zionism [129 words]JeaneneOct 11, 2007 15:04111154
Jeanene [427 words]shaynaOct 13, 2007 18:01111154
Zionism's Bleak Present [124 words]Suren SukhtankarOct 11, 2007 14:43111153
Wide acclaim? [108 words]SyarikatOct 11, 2007 11:28111135
I'm afraid existential ennui isn't Israel's main problem [331 words]Charles MartelOct 11, 2007 11:13111134
Defense of Zion [463 words]M. ToveyOct 11, 2007 11:04111133
the tragedy of it all [476 words]jennifer solisOct 12, 2007 16:40111133
Who gets the blame [54 words]David W. LincolnOct 11, 2007 10:51111131
Israel forever [298 words]Rebecca MouldsOct 11, 2007 10:41111129
bless you [49 words]marleneMar 14, 2008 04:30111129
Israel will survive [206 words]SFC, Donald Grant CheesmanOct 11, 2007 09:43111123
Even more pessimism [53 words]roslyn estherOct 11, 2007 08:55111118
I understand how you feel [611 words]Ken BesigOct 11, 2007 08:45111117
Alarmed [114 words]AtillaOct 11, 2007 05:37111088
National Identity [97 words]Edward HalperOct 11, 2007 03:07111081
Zionism's Bleak Present [194 words]SharonOct 11, 2007 02:36111080
Our history should give you some hope! [382 words]Gershon SeifOct 11, 2007 02:22111079
Evolution needed? [651 words]Archimedes2Oct 11, 2007 01:37111075
disagree [250 words]housam jarrarOct 11, 2007 01:28111074
Zionism's Bleak Future [135 words]Talia ZentaraOct 11, 2007 00:52111071
IS THIS OUR FATE? [525 words]Geno M.Oct 11, 2007 00:31111070
3The lights are going out all over europe tonight [1658 words]Antonia GilliganJan 26, 2008 01:00111070
If not now, when? [40 words]Carl SesarOct 11, 2007 00:25111069
If not now, when? [23 words]SHDNov 19, 2009 23:58111069
bleak is as bleak does [304 words]John W. McGinleyOct 10, 2007 23:12111059
Liberalism [51 words]YnnatchkahOct 10, 2007 22:01111050
Lack of knowledge [79 words]Lana FaymanOct 10, 2007 21:12111042
Zionism [139 words]Donald W. BalesOct 10, 2007 21:06111040
ZIONISM BLEAK PRESENT [471 words]JACQUES HADIDAOct 10, 2007 21:00111039
Not them too... [65 words]DianaOct 10, 2007 20:30111037
ONLY SOLUTION: GAZA TO EGYPT; PARTS OF WEST BANK LINKED TO JORDAN [164 words]G. MarcusOct 10, 2007 20:28111035
Agree with Marcus, but I'm afraid Arabs too smart for that [167 words]Charles MartelOct 12, 2007 12:37111035
It's always darkest... [80 words]LDCOct 10, 2007 20:25111034

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