Submitted by sara (United States), Sep 15, 2006 at 08:29
Bart:
I wonder what you mean when you use emotionally charged words and phrases like "don't get too cozy" and "irrational" and "amorphous." What do you intend to convey with your words: "The vast majority of Christians still have no love for Israel, nor do they see the modern nation as having any significance in their religion."
If you call the vast majority of Christians those who say they are Catholic, fine. I give you that. The vast majority of Catholics also never attend Mass, and even so, the Catholic Church does zero to promote the Bible's view of Israel. The Bible is clear: God is a Zionist. He loves Israel, and will not allow it to go astray forever. He chose it and will forever have Israel in the center of His will on earth.
I can almost hear you cringing when I speak about God......you liken all "fundamentalists," whether Muslim or Christian to be the same: irrational, and unreliable. If by fundamentalist, you mean one who sticks to the literal translation of his holy books, then to say Muslims and Christian fundamentalists are the "same" is disingenuous. The two have completely DIFFERENT holy books.It is THERE that we must look if we are going to lump the two in the same category, and honestly, you cannot equate the Koran with the Bible. The Koran takes both sides of every issue, so it can be denied or supported on any given topic. God is supposedly a Being of Truth, since He filled the known Universe with order and reality (Truth.) But God is not going to contradict Himself on every single topic, such as the Koran does.
If you want to see illogical thought, please look in just the first three pages of the Koran. I have read it more than most Muslims. I have edited my husband's books, and that packs a wallop of information on Islam...from the Koran itself. I DO know that Islam is opposed to both Christianity and Judaism, while Christianity and Judaism certainly appear to have come from the same God, the God of Israel. (Excuse me, I may have offended you here.)
There IS no common ground between Islam and any other faith...it is BY ITS OWN HOLY BOOKS, different than all other faiths, and in DIRECT OPPOSITION To all other faiths. Just open a Koran if you need proof.
You will find many Bible believing Christians right now, over in Israel, working quietly on projects that benefit only Israelis.....for no pay whatsoever. (All over the world, also.) I ask you to point out to me where you think there is need in the world, and I can show you Bible believing Christians are there trying to ameliorate the suffering. Yes, our tradition comes from Judaism, and many Jewish doctors are also over in hot spots, trying to ameliorate suffering, with no remuneration.
I highly admire this selfless service of humanity. But I know its origin is within Judaism.......I read the Bible, and know that the God of Israel asked the Jews not to fully reap their crops, but to leave a corner where the poor could come and glean. The God of Israel wants all believers to show love for our fellow men, especially for each other, but also to those who do not believe. Allah is not this God of Israel, and even Muslims will say the two are NOT the same god. If you really want to be rational, the name Allah came from a pagan moon-god, and does not refer to Y-WH.
This root of selfless sacrifice comes from the God of Israel, Who, whether or not you have the ability to perceive His activity, allows you to breathe another day.
Scientists today know that this Universe is so fine-tuned it could never have come about by chance. At least, the honest ones admit that.
This firm foundation (the Bible) does NOT permit the Christian to hate his enemies. It requires of them that they support and defend Israel. It requires of them that they repent of their OWN sins long before they can look at another's sins. But it also requires them to feed the hungry, clothe the naked, visit the ill, and those in prison, and it requires them to PRAY unceasingly.
Islam falls way short of this, since it requires only moderate acknowledgment of the poor MUSLIM brother (no one else who is poor need be considered.) It copies and pastes from Judeo-Christian altruism, and requires only that sometimes the Muslim should take care of his fellow Muslim. Do we find any REAL charity among Muslims for their fellow humans? NO. There is a concept in Islam that anyone who is not Muslim is sub-human, and so for them to help humanity means to help the Umma, or Muslim brotherhood. It is the Judeo-Christian nations which go in after every world disaster, and aid people, regardless of their religion.
Is there such a concept as "charity" for non-Muslims in Islam? Please show me where this is in the Koran. There are only two types of people according to Islam...the House of Islam, and the House of War (the rest of us.) Muhammad himself doubted whether he heard from satan, or the angel gabriel. He never claimed to have heard from Allah.
I know pseudo-intellectuals (maybe not you, hopefully) that believe Jews fared better under Islam than under Christianity. Nothing could be farther from the truth.
I DO acknowledge horrendous crimes during the Inquisition, but you should remember that these followed the horrific slaughter by Muslims coming in to conquer all of Europe by Jihad. I do not at all say their response was correct, and may it never happen again. But these Inquisitors in Spain were following the edicts of the Spanish King, not the Bible. There is NO justification in the Bible for killing Jews, or Muslims, but there certainly is in the Koran for killing all of us.
I do not sit back anymore and allow pseudo-intellectuals to denigrate my faith, nor do I allow them the luxury of falsely compartmentalizing my faith with Islam.
The fruits of real Christianity have been love for one's fellow man. Even though the Catholic Church dominated for centuries, it also persecuted Bible-believing Christians. It is not beneficial for you to "warn" your fellow agnostic Jewish community not to get "too cozy" with the Christians who support you. Show some concern about the present and vociferous threats to wipe Israel off the map, and where those are coming from.
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| Title |
By |
Date |
| The Painful But Absolute Truth [100 words] | Seamus MacNemi | Feb 25, 2007 14:52 |
| ↔ Israel and Islam [182 words] | Noha A. Yousri | Sep 6, 2007 14:08 |
| ↔ Reply to Noha Yousri [90 words] | Seamus MacNemi | Sep 6, 2007 16:52 |
| ↔ Reply to Seamus MacNemi [140 words] | Noha Yousri | Sep 7, 2007 22:09 |
| ↔ Reply to Noha Yousri [192 words] | Seamus MacNemi | Sep 10, 2007 17:56 |
| ↔ Our dear Noha and masha'allah! [524 words] | dhimmi no more | Sep 12, 2007 11:24 |
| ↔ god [70 words] | dr john jolliyo | Aug 11, 2009 01:44 |
| ↔ You have a say in what you believe. [238 words] | Lynn | Sep 27, 2009 10:11 |
| RESPONSE TO SARA [851 words] | Bart Willruth | Sep 18, 2006 10:29 |
| ↔ how great a fall, Bart [356 words] | sara | Oct 3, 2006 07:44 |
| why the heck do Jews STILL vote Democrat? [110 words] | sara | Sep 11, 2006 15:37 |
| Bible Believers and Israel / Islam [498 words] | Major Jeff White | Sep 5, 2006 14:46 |
| ↔ Israel is still the same as in Old Testament: Micah [359 words] | Noha Yousri | Dec 4, 2006 23:53 |
| ↔ The God of Abraham and Free Will [129 words] | Seamus MacNemi | Feb 25, 2007 21:31 |
| ↔ Our dear Noha ... [60 words] | dhimmi no more | Sep 10, 2007 18:59 |
| ↔ A reply to your offense Mr.dhimmi... [78 words] | Noha Yousri | Sep 11, 2007 18:09 |
| ↔ I read this as: and guess what? [22 words] | dhimmi no more | Sep 12, 2007 16:57 |
| ↔ our dear Noha and the debate that is not a debate! Go figure [320 words] | dhimmi no more | Sep 17, 2007 07:11 |
| ↔ Do you believe you have a kidney Mr. dhimmi ? [883 words] | Noha Yousri | Sep 17, 2007 22:37 |
| ↔ Our dear Noha rabina yu3alimuha al-lughat al-3arabiya wa al-kalawi [1564 words] | dhimmi no more | Sep 18, 2007 20:50 |
| ↔ Re: origins [20 words] | Michele Ezell | Sep 26, 2009 19:47 |
| Christian Zionists Down Under. [21 words] | Gail | Sep 5, 2006 00:04 |
| Apocolyptic exegesis [105 words] | Rob | Sep 2, 2006 01:58 |
| Staying in line with beliefs [316 words] | RWCowboy | Sep 2, 2006 00:18 |
| ↔ In Reply To Noha Yousri [45 words] | Seamus MacMemi | Sep 7, 2007 09:03 |
| Its time to know the history of Palestinians [112 words] | Paul Rinderle | Aug 31, 2006 16:06 |
| ↔ Palestine has a shallow history [93 words] | scott brown | Sep 11, 2006 18:18 |
Are the statistics accurate for European Christians too? [w/response] [81 words] | Robert Feiger | Aug 31, 2006 15:37 |
| Recommended Reading Re: Zionist Evangelicals [147 words] | Michael | Aug 31, 2006 11:24 |
| support Israel, not the Bible [326 words] | Lewis Loflin | Aug 31, 2006 10:58 |
Christian Zionists [w/response] [509 words] | Bart Willruth | Aug 31, 2006 10:51 |
| ↔ Verbum Solum Habemous [329 words] | Michael | Sep 1, 2006 02:54 |
| ↔ Christian Zionists follow up [304 words] | Bart Willruth | Sep 1, 2006 08:47 |
| ↔ Christian Zionism according to former theologians [218 words] | Rob | Sep 1, 2006 15:11 |
| ↔ convoluted interpretation [302 words] | Bart Willruth | Sep 1, 2006 16:35 |
| ↔ same old lie [33 words] | p. | Sep 1, 2006 17:16 |
| ↔ Elitist clap-trap [194 words] | Keith R. Snyder | Sep 1, 2006 22:58 |
| ↔ Mizpah ! [141 words] | Michael | Sep 1, 2006 23:24 |
| ↔ Religious Superiority And Arrogance [259 words] | Infidel | Sep 2, 2006 00:10 |
| ↔ Replacement Theology and Bastardization of the Gospel [628 words] | Grateful1 | Sep 2, 2006 06:13 |
| ↔ Calumny most egregious [389 words] | Michael | Sep 2, 2006 12:36 |
| ↔ Pro-Israel "Supercessionist" speaks. [634 words] | Peter J. Herz | Sep 3, 2006 00:10 |
| ↔ CHRISTIAN ZIONISM [292 words] | Bart Willruth | Sep 5, 2006 10:14 |
| ↔ Bart.... [124 words] | donvan | Sep 7, 2006 10:57 |
| ↔ IRRATIONALITY [240 words] | Bart Willruth | Sep 8, 2006 08:44 |
| ↔ To Bart Willruth [152 words] | sara | Sep 12, 2006 08:11 |
| ↔ Bart Willruth [629 words] | sara | Sep 13, 2006 06:14 |
| ↔ SARA'S OFFENSE [550 words] | Bart Willruth | Sep 14, 2006 09:04 |
| ↔ ⇒ You have the wrong enemy [1091 words] | sara | Sep 15, 2006 08:29 |
| ↔ I AGREE WITH SARA AND MAJOR JEFF WHITE [705 words] | Jobel | Oct 1, 2006 18:55 |
| ↔ Amorphous Faith? [81 words] | Matt R. | Oct 16, 2006 18:22 |
| ↔ I agree [47 words] | Bart Willruth | Oct 23, 2006 13:20 |
| ↔ The New is in the Old Concealed, the Old is in the New Revealed [392 words] | A Christian | Jan 20, 2007 22:08 |
| ↔ What, Really, Is Faith? [627 words] | Seamus MacNemi | Sep 7, 2007 11:31 |
| ↔ The "Curse" Of The Law [450 words] | Seamus MacNemi | Sep 7, 2007 13:21 |
| ↔ what about Micah ??? [71 words] | Noha Yousri | Sep 12, 2007 01:04 |
| ↔ I speak the truth [110 words] | Michael | Sep 12, 2007 21:40 |
| ↔ Reply to Michael [377 words] | Noha Yousri | Sep 14, 2007 11:44 |
| ↔ To Noha Yousri [47 words] | Michael | Sep 15, 2007 10:17 |
| ↔ But our Dear Noha is quoting the Bible! [25 words] | dhimmi no more | Sep 16, 2007 20:12 |
| ↔ Noha Yousri [299 words] | dhimmi no more | Sep 16, 2007 20:26 |
| ↔ But our dear Noha the Qur'an really says that jesus is God [48 words] | dhimmi no more | Sep 16, 2007 20:31 |
| ↔ Speak to God, He is always there for you [125 words] | Noha Yousri | Sep 17, 2007 11:59 |
| ↔ dhimmi : Nothing is for you [45 words] | Noha Yousri | Sep 18, 2007 14:28 |
| ↔ Our dear Noha I read this as: you have no answer [53 words] | dhimmi no more | Sep 18, 2007 21:02 |
| ↔ Israel [459 words] | KP | Sep 15, 2009 13:09 |
| ↔ Israel the Head of Nations [63 words] | KP | Sep 16, 2009 11:51 |
| It's not all fun and games [61 words] | Rob | Aug 30, 2006 07:09 |
| ↔ It's Not Easy Being Me [147 words] | Richard | Aug 31, 2006 20:43 |
| ↔ scripture [145 words] | buffaloacademy | Sep 10, 2006 00:24 |