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Conduct of argument

Reader comment on item: Islamophobia?

Submitted by John Bastile (Malaysia), Nov 29, 2005 at 05:07

Scholar,

I quote Quran and Sunnah and you quote wikipedia?

I also downloaded some materials from wikipedia. It was a story about how Mohammed caused a sex scandal when he had sex with one of his wives' slave girl - Mary, the Coptic. The story also revealed how a quranic verse later came about to rescue your prophet once again from sexual misconduct. I believe this rather than the cover-up "honey story" - that's a lot of bull.

You lambasted me for not answering some of your questions while you don't to some of mine. As a scholar, you may try referencing your questions, as I do.

You quote" Anyway, it seems that you like to introduce certain trivial matters instead of answering the real questions! I have already asked about the God depicted in the Bible, but instead you talk about stoning women and she-donkeys!"

Yes, Scholar, I replied about what I think of God depicted in my Bible, that's why I explained to you about the Old Testament. I know that stoning women is a trivial thing to you. But for us, I felt sad that some humans have to suffer death and humiliation because of some other people who want their rewards to heaven. Be they fanatic christians or muslims, it's wrong to kill other people because they have sinned against your holy books.

Yes, some fanatical christian kill. But Jesus never said "Kill them"
Yes, some fanatical hindus kill. But they holy books never said "Kill them"
Yes, some fanatical budhhists kill. But Buddha never said "Kill them".

Yes, some fanatical muslims kill. That's because Mohammed or Allah (interchangeable) said "Kill them". That's why we call these musllims - true muslims.

The story of she-monkeys being stoned for adultery is a serious reflection on the mindset of the muslims. For example, I may expect to see she-monkeys wearing burqas in an Islamic zoo.

Scholar, what we are dealing here is that the modern world has to deal with a people from a "lost civilization". Muslims, in general, have not progressed since the 7th century. Primary reason is that you're trying very hard to defend a character that is most difficult to defend. Your fairy-tale stories are now subject to queries and via the internet, you can't kill or subjugate doubters anymore.

You also asked "Lisa on the other hand tells me that God in the old Testament wants to show the worst in man!! Do you really believe that?"

I have to admit that I did not read your correpondences between Lisa and you at the moment. Both of you cut and paste a whole bunch of articles and verses and expect each other to explain in details every one of them.

Both of you, please be fair. Don't just download dozens of verses and then ask the other party to defend. A few questions at a time.



Download From wikipedia. Read if interested.

Wikipedia
The Sira of Ibn Ishaq relates that the sixty-sixth chapter of the Qur'an (surah At-Tahrim) was revealed on account of Maria. The story goes that Muhammad was particularly fond of Maria, who is described as being fair skinned and having curly hair. Muhammad lodged Maria in a nearby house and would visit her by day and by night. Muhammad's wives became openly jealous, as Muhammad was spending less time with them and had copulated with Maria without any ceremony, Maria being sent as a concubine (though all recognized that Muhammad had this right, just as Abraham had kept Hagar as a concubine) (Lings 277). This reached a climax when, one day, Muhammad was in the home of his wife Hafsa bint Umar (as it was her day to be visited by him). Hafsa was away visiting her father, Umar ibn al-Khattab. It happened that Muhammad was feeling amourous so he made advances to Maria, and they slept together in Hafsa's hut. Hafsa returned unexpectedly and burst into anger and tears, crying, "In my hut, on my own day and in my own bed!" Becoming weary of this, Muhammad then promised that he would ban Maria from his life, and only asked Hafsa that she not tell anyone else about what had transpired. But Hafsa could not contain herself, and told the secret to Aisha (Muhammad's most favoured wife, and a close friend of Hafsa's). Aisha, like the rest of the his wives, also detested Maria, "the little nobody who had managed to give the Prophet a son." From Aisha the news spread amongst the women's quarters. Muhammad became furious at his wives.

At this point, the story goes that the sixty-sixth Surah of the Qur'an was revealed to Muhammad: "O Prophet, why do you make prohibited that which Allah has made lawful for you [referring to Muhammad's banning Maria from his life], just to please your wives? Allah is forgiving and merciful. Allah has given absolution from such oaths [i.e. Allah absolves Muhammad of his oath to ban Maria from his life]. He is your master. He is all-knowing and wise. The Prophet made a story secret to one of his wives [Hafsa] and she repeated it, but Allah revealed it to him… If he [Muhammad] divorces you [addressing all of Muhammad's wives now], perhaps his Lord will give him instead better wives than yourselves…" (Qur'an, 66:1–5). Having been absolved of his oath to ban Maria from his life, and still being furious over dissent amongst his wives caused by Hafsa's spreading the secret about what had happened in her hut, Muhammad now vowed to teach his wives a lesson by abstaining from them for a month and instead spending all of his time with Maria. Muhammad then lodged Maria in upper Medina with the eunuch, away from his wives. After the month had ended, Muhammad went back to visiting his wives, Aisha being the first wife that he resumed seeing when the month ended. (Rodinson 279–282).
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