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Religious Certainty and Acts of Terror: Islam and the West
Reader comment on item: What Are Islamic Schools Teaching?

Submitted by David B. Aronin (United States), May 24, 2005 at 20:10

Summary:
I believe that forms of theological supremacism expressed by many elements of Christianity and Observant Judaism are not very different from those found in many elements of Islam. And therefore that the crucial difference between the effects religious certainty has had on civil order in the West as opposed to that found in Islamic countries lies not in a greater theological relativism - but in the ethic of civic toleration that developed in the west in response to the brutal futility of the religious wars, and has yet to be formally recognized within Islamic culture as a whole.

My reading of Dr Pipes' article though gave me the impression that he found almost as much to be concerned about in the religious certainty expounded in many Islamic schools, particularly in the way that reflected on the beliefs of other faiths, as in any explicit expressions of hatred or incitements to violence. Indeed that expressions of religious certainty of the kind similar to "Islam is true and other faiths are false" - and similar as well to those expressed in many other faiths – were seen to be in themselves to be forms of hatred and incitements to violence. I hope my reading of this is in error.

Body of comments:
The genius of Western civic tolerance is that it traditionally requires only that citizens respect each other as citizens regardless of the deep differences in their world views. What this process does not do or require is that people give up the ethical and conceptual judgments that stem from their deepest commitments, or any actions stemming from those judgments pertaining to questions of whom they choose to associate with and what activities they choose to participate in - so long as they don't in doing so impinge on the civic rights of others. This has been true even when such decisions may imply a negative or disrespectful judgment on the commitments, actions and judgments of others.

Historically such commitments have stemmed from religious faith, in the US, to a large extent they still do. And large and important segments of the major faiths in the US have been and continue to be both triumphalist, and significantly exclusivist in their conceptions of both religious truth in general, and eschatology in particular (see below).* And through most of its history many Americans have lived, gone to school with, befriended, fought and died next to, and sometimes married, those who they did not believe they would see in the World to Come. And every one knew this – as well as the fact that such judgments were "merely" concluded from a prior determination that - your faith - was mostly false - bordering on paganism or idolatry in many cases - if not crossing the line altogether (and that mostly in regard to different denominations of Christianity, let alone other faiths altogether). On the other hand some groups did - and do - largely self-segregate in many important facets of their lives – and practice some degree of gender segregation internally as well. There was for most of that time no "cult of sensitivity and self-esteem" to take the edge off these "hard facts", but somehow civic peace was usually maintained and people managed to grow up, be reasonably good citizens and make satisfactory lives for themselves.

I had thought that the project of reforming Islam was to reproduce - if at all possible - the structure and habits of civic tolerance as they had developed in the west – as sketched out above. But this article seems to be expressing the view that - in the case of Islam and its adherents – it is the - similarly -triumphalist and exclusivist elements of its doctrines that somehow sets it apart, even to the point of providing evidence of possibly intractable inclinations towards violent militancy. But if Western Faiths had been viewed this same way at the inception of the movement towards civic tolerance – or at many points along the way - would that project have even begun? Clearly the Europeans and their American offspring were then just as vehement in their theological differences with each other as Islam is with other Faiths now - and many in the west remain so up through the present – particularly in the US. Do Moslems – unlike westerners – really need to give up their belief in the unique truth of their faith in order to live in civic peace and civic equality with others? Is it inconceivable that they too can simply participate along with other faiths and denominations in a peaceful competition for adherents and influence as theologically incommensurable faiths and denominations have long done in the West? On the other hand, the tone of this article seems to reflect something oddly akin to the kind of general aversion towards expressions of theological certainty that has long been characteristic of the academic left. I hope I am mistaken in this perception.


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Reader comments (154) on this item

Title By Date
Education of Bilingual Muslim Children [500 words]Iftikhar AhmadFeb 7, 2009 16:41
Opinions like Iftikhar Ahmad's should not go unopposed [261 words]AbhiMay 5, 2009 22:20
What are Islamic Schools Teaching? [553 words]elleJun 16, 2009 08:54
Education of bilingual muslim children by Iftikar Ahmed [318 words]MonaSep 12, 2009 08:52
answer to the comment of elle to what are the teaching of islamic school [144 words]ismael abdul azizOct 25, 2009 07:18
islam is real [48 words]abdul alim (muslim)Dec 10, 2008 07:08
Reply [25 words]Fred FlowJan 2, 2008 21:39
listen [87 words]Mohsin butt from islamabad pakistanNov 4, 2008 11:55
Mohsin says Islam is peace [219 words]katieFeb 5, 2009 04:19
Islam is the best thing that's happened to women [481 words]Razia SayedaMar 26, 2009 06:47
The limitations for women in Islam [946 words]maggie millingtonMar 27, 2009 05:17
Know your facts [107 words]sekanderMay 12, 2009 07:01
Mohammad a good example ? [625 words]KatieMay 13, 2009 03:27
Muhammad a Good Example? [82 words]elleJun 15, 2009 08:03
What is the curricula for Muslim education? [32 words]elleJun 16, 2009 04:56
in regards to: islam is the best thing that happend to women [115 words]freydaJul 8, 2009 09:58
have u seen his ruling [22 words]rockySep 9, 2009 16:39
stop telling your religion is best [42 words]rocky_1733Sep 9, 2009 16:50
a grade 9 person's response [106 words]Anam ZubaidDec 31, 2007 16:56
dont listen to this man he doesnt know what he is talking about [108 words]wagdi gabbarApr 13, 2008 21:20
Balance in perspective [196 words]Erim ChaudhuryNov 26, 2007 09:16
Daniel Pipe's and Anti-Islamism [162 words]Qamrul A. KhansonNov 23, 2007 19:32
Muslim Schools [533 words]Iftikhar AhmadOct 28, 2007 08:32
Pakistani-Hindu Comparison [108 words]obilicOct 30, 2007 15:01
No need to moan [202 words]VijayNov 20, 2007 12:39
the schools of islam teach ? hate. [282 words]Phil GreendAug 19, 2007 10:28
I think we are assuming too much. [69 words]IshanSep 2, 2007 07:50
The Legacy of Islamic Antisemitism [16 words]basilSep 20, 2009 06:30
Shout [75 words]dfwhiteOct 4, 2006 15:49
we are supposed to shout it from the rooftops [142 words]JulieOct 17, 2006 10:52
friend [63 words]dfwhiteOct 18, 2006 12:52
Dear Julie, history is indeed repeating itself. [241 words]ciccioOct 29, 2006 22:16
YW-H...His-story [423 words]JulieOct 30, 2006 18:39
Islam Not Associated with Terrorism? [126 words]JennyNov 5, 2006 12:21
moderate islam !!! [64 words]dfwhiteNov 5, 2006 18:07
Fight or Die ? [179 words]Phil GreendMay 15, 2007 18:55
WHAT ARE ISLAMIC SCHOOLS TEACHING?: A reply to Julie [269 words]Jaisingh ThakurJul 17, 2007 10:36
Islam is not the religion of peace [298 words]katieOct 27, 2008 03:00
Read "Why I Left Jihad" [630 words]FischJul 26, 2006 16:09
Islam [337 words]A'qeebFeb 24, 2006 13:46
Islam [17 words]DebbyApr 11, 2006 13:34
Why does Islam tax non believers at a higher tax rate? [3 words]rjAug 13, 2006 01:07
Tax from Non Muslims [92 words]Muhammad MoosaAug 13, 2006 02:03
OH BUT THEY DO TAX US INFIDELS [5 words]julieOct 16, 2006 16:10
The honest facts about Islam's "sexually pure" society [645 words]julieOct 17, 2006 08:41
Where does terrorism start? [706 words]Revealer of the truthOct 17, 2006 10:56
ISLAM IS HIDDING BEHIND THE VEIL - ON SEX BEFORE MARRIAGE [305 words]MarthaMar 10, 2007 23:34
Same old ambivalence--- [93 words]Denise WardMay 30, 2007 21:51
Reply to Julie [17 words]JoyceJul 17, 2007 23:23
The "Really" honest facts about Islam's "sexually pure" society [127 words]Aamir Ali AnsariAug 9, 2007 01:51
Wow. [94 words]Ishan AlmaziSep 2, 2007 07:33
faithfreedom.org [19 words]sincereeffortsOct 25, 2007 21:33
not honest [11 words]sallyJul 19, 2008 02:43
REAd a little bit [6 words]jamesOct 8, 2008 06:39
If u practically see Islamic Schools [58 words]M@NIFeb 14, 2009 13:57
This is not true...There is not facts to support this...PLEASE READ [261 words]Daanish [Muslim]Apr 25, 2009 01:00
Because non-Muslims Aren't Obligated to Fight Jihad [23 words]AmalApr 25, 2009 21:14
i am very proud to be born in america. [69 words]stevenSep 13, 2009 17:17
faithfreedom org. [46 words]MonaSep 14, 2009 04:14
Ridiculous [46 words]MGNov 27, 2005 03:34
the other side of the picture [619 words]ALI MUJAHIDJun 30, 2005 23:53
reply to commenter Ali Mujahid [695 words]Gaye CarmanJul 13, 2005 08:40
build churches and syanagogues all over Middle East first [178 words]julieOct 17, 2006 10:28
Response "Christianity is a faith in which God sent His Son to die for you." [474 words]Aamir Ali AnsariAug 23, 2007 14:48
⇒ Religious Certainty and Acts of Terror: Islam and the West [827 words]David B. AroninMay 24, 2005 20:10
Preaching to the choir. [62 words]Jerold B. CoburnApr 18, 2005 20:59
Response to M. Khan and other apologists [371 words]Nazia K.Apr 6, 2005 19:02
Reply to Nazia K [58 words]Riva OrlangoJun 30, 2005 17:41
Context [466 words]SaadiJan 17, 2006 13:11
Regulation is a key factor. [221 words]Arvind.MApr 1, 2005 18:46
A question [224 words]Andria SpindelMar 30, 2005 22:48
Our Man in the Trenches [176 words]Dave M. O'NeillMar 30, 2005 18:39
Teaching of Quran should be banned [97 words]A. WoodsMar 30, 2005 14:45
The Quran [173 words]DebbyApr 11, 2006 13:30
Where is a MUslim who has actually opened a koran and read it? [756 words]julieOct 17, 2006 10:04
what!! [195 words]AliyahJul 2, 2008 14:34
promote teaching of quran [127 words]SyedOct 9, 2008 06:45
Teaching of Quran [82 words]awais kazmiFeb 21, 2009 14:44
Axis of evils [155 words]B. AlotaibiMar 30, 2005 13:52
Your talk in Toronto [120 words]John HarmanMar 30, 2005 13:51
Is Quran anti-Semitic? [281 words]Ansar RazaMar 30, 2005 11:40
"The Prophet was a Semite" [88 words]David SternlightNov 24, 2006 13:46
It feels like we under occupation [55 words]Mikhail AksmanMar 30, 2005 11:36
Islamic Schools and Immigration Reform [58 words]Octavio JohansonMar 30, 2005 06:01
Thoughts on religion, education, and politics [568 words]Peter J. HerzMar 30, 2005 05:11
Free agents? [208 words]S.C.PandaMar 30, 2005 04:20
Why Islam can never be reformed? [75 words]S.S.Mar 30, 2005 03:29
Most muslims are in denial about the Koran [176 words]julieOct 17, 2006 10:47
Islam the fake religion ? [200 words]KatieMay 6, 2007 10:32
the fake religion? [283 words]LPJul 30, 2007 20:55
disagree [97 words]aliyahNov 17, 2007 10:06
Response to Islam the fake religion [63 words]Al SencilMay 19, 2008 02:30
Amen.....for lack of a better term. [53 words]religion is nonsenceJul 18, 2008 19:39
islam [103 words]rnm1789Oct 23, 2008 20:35
Prof that Islam is a true religion [563 words]Mohammed Awais shaikhOct 25, 2008 14:38
As gOOD OR AS bAD AS EACH OTHER [141 words]Summer NicksOct 28, 2008 04:06
Pakistan ! [56 words]katieOct 28, 2008 18:27
katie [861 words]Summer NicksNov 3, 2008 05:51
FAKE!! [30 words]AliasFeb 4, 2009 12:42
Government money supporting Islamic schools [99 words]Carol FullerApr 26, 2009 11:49
Open your minds [682 words]Decendant of MohammedJun 15, 2009 13:08
Governement money supporting islamic schools- by Carol Fuller [139 words]MonaSep 16, 2009 09:02
thats not true [224 words]meelSep 17, 2009 08:15
Not shocked [276 words]Olivia M.Mar 30, 2005 02:40
Islam demands complete and exclusive submission. [243 words]S.J.S.Mar 30, 2005 02:39
All Praise to the God of Israel [81 words]JulieOct 17, 2006 10:35
What about making Islamic Schools follow a national curriculum? [39 words]Octavio JohansonMar 30, 2005 01:38
What are Islamic schools teaching? [72 words]Jacques BakkeMar 30, 2005 00:26
Thank you [11 words]Stan AberleMar 30, 2005 00:20
CAIR and Working to stop it from Spreading here. [212 words]Gary D RiceMar 29, 2005 22:41
Kidding me [83 words]BharathiOct 26, 2007 15:50
Taught to Hate [371 words]Arlinda DeAngelisMar 29, 2005 22:26
Slowly, Ever so slowly.... [108 words]Darwin BarrettMar 29, 2005 21:03
Add another name [22 words]Barry MillerMar 29, 2005 20:41
Terrorist schools in North America [107 words]Les DavisMar 29, 2005 20:13
Schools and Islam [285 words]DebApr 11, 2006 14:14
you are not debby: you are a man [241 words]debby's mirrorOct 17, 2006 10:12
Response to Deb on what Islamic schools are teaching. [155 words]AlexaNov 20, 2007 09:25
Moderate Muslims [299 words]Maham Bilal KhanMar 29, 2005 19:36
Attention Mr. Khan [20 words]Ephraim BielefeldtOct 4, 2006 09:15
"Being an American means nothing to me"... [129 words]Marcos BerensteinMar 29, 2005 19:27
ok ...we agree...everybody go back home...who will lose.... [72 words]adamJun 1, 2006 16:43
Belly dancing is an islamic cultural gift to the world [171 words]julieOct 17, 2006 09:04
Islamic Education [160 words]A. AhmedMar 29, 2005 19:14
Stay The Course [18 words]RichardMar 29, 2005 18:29
Islamic Schools [105 words]Judy MorrisMar 29, 2005 17:02
A MATTER OF TIME [152 words]DON VANMar 29, 2005 16:52
I laugh and I weep [73 words]Robert BrielMar 29, 2005 16:42
Why be surprised [248 words]J. KrasnowMar 29, 2005 16:37
Why Christianity is different than Islam [558 words]God is inclusive and exclusiveOct 18, 2006 10:43
An alternative view-point [90 words]Octavio JohansonMar 29, 2005 15:54
Islamic Schools should be "Banned" [408 words]Abir ChaabanMar 29, 2005 15:11
Ridiculous!!!!!!!!!!!!!! [98 words]Krystal GebaraFeb 16, 2006 20:17
women are the least protected in Islamic marriages [245 words]julieOct 17, 2006 10:22
re [74 words]gemsMay 22, 2008 21:52
Uh-- maybe you need to read the news, and the reality about Talaq customs... [253 words]saraMay 23, 2008 16:52
RE: Uhhhh... [189 words]GemsMay 25, 2008 16:24
False Religions [125 words]dconnellMar 29, 2005 15:01
Thanks [46 words]Ralph LisleMar 29, 2005 15:00
Teaching in islamic schools [107 words]Nazia K.Mar 29, 2005 14:21
Response to Nazia K. [329 words]Maham B. KhanMar 30, 2005 21:22
WHY DON'T FOLK MUSLIMS READ THE KORAN [11 words]julieOct 17, 2006 10:37
Muhammad [29 words]IssacApr 2, 2008 16:44
Can There Be ANY Doubt??? [213 words]Don CastellaMar 29, 2005 14:15
Clarification and question from Dr. Pipes [295 words]Amir SaniMar 29, 2005 13:02
Further to Amir Sani's comment [79 words]Elliot RosenbergMar 29, 2005 17:33
Response to commenter Amir Sani -- Facts help [90 words]G.E. WoodsMar 31, 2005 04:40
Reply to commenter G.E. Woods [20 words]Peter J. HerzApr 4, 2005 01:29
Response to commenter Mr. Herz: Record of ideological killings held by Islam [98 words]A.W.Apr 7, 2005 12:45
Islam has killed more people than communism [16 words]JULIEOct 17, 2006 10:40
How True [34 words]AmirMar 29, 2005 12:48
reply to all aggressors [90 words]waqasMar 1, 2007 01:54
What nonsense [103 words]Shakil QureshiNov 22, 2007 09:21
None are reading Authentic resources [139 words]AfaqueSep 15, 2009 19:58

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Note: Opinions expressed in comments are those of the authors alone and not necessarily those of Daniel Pipes. Original writing only, please. Comments are screened for relevance, substance, and tone, and in some cases edited before posting. Reasoned disagreement is welcome, but comments are rejected if scurrilous, off-topic, vulgar, ad hominem, or otherwise viewed as inappropriate. For complete regulations, see the Guidelines for Comments. For informational purposes, we identify countries from which comments are sent.

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