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Re: Daniel Pipe's Comments on The failure of the Oslo accord.

Reader comment on item: Why Oslo's Hopes Turned to Dust

Submitted by Reuben Horne (United States), Sep 9, 2003 at 23:17

I just wanted to take the time to say that I wholeheartedly concur with Mr Pipes point by point proposal as the beginning at least of a solution to the Palestinian Israeli conflict. It embodies a more realistic way of seeing the conflict amongst other things. I have a few small things to add. Our perception of the Palestinian Israeli conflict in the west is heavily skewed (and in this case I am dealing particularly with the Australian Context) by a liberally biased media. I use the term liberal rather loosely because the interests that the media is representing with it's liberal bias are anything but liberal in nature. Our media has tended to report firstly the Israeli response to actions on the part of the Palestinian's and then either not report the actions of the Palestinians that the Israelis are responding to -- or report the Palestinian aggression as some kind of after thought. As a result of this the tendency in Australia has been to view the conflict in one of two ways: the most prevalent opinion in Australia is one laced with exasperation as though the Middle East is a hopeless case and both parties are to blame, increasingly however the media has been more and more successful in engendering tremendous yet utterly illogical hostility towards the Jewish people in Israel.

Strangely the media takes a very different view of precisely the same activities that the Palestinians are undertaking when they appear on our shores. The terrorist actions at Bali and more recently outside a major international hotel in Indonesia were the actions of a group of Al Queda affiliated paramilitaries known as Jama Islamia whose mission statement includes the formation of an Islamic superstate in the southern pacific including Australia -- one assumes that a necessary antecedant to the formation of this state is the destruction of my home country (that being Australia). As a result of this when the Hamas flag is waved at anti Israeli rallies and when the Australian Coucil of Arts funds a cable TV station that disseminates Jihadist propaganda it is an immense scandal and the Islamic community within Australia is subject to intense scrutiny which they do not appreciate. So there is a great hypocracy in the way that these issues are both seen and dealt with when you compare the attitudes of Australian's to what goes on in their country and what goes on overseas. I sympathise entirely with the Israelis when in exasperation they make statements like -- if this is not acceptable anywhere else why should it be acceptable within Israel.

On another issue whilst the Palestinian perspective on the conflict can be regarded as a fantasy in one sense (i.e. the whole institution of Islamic Martyrdom) in focusing singularly on this particular fantasy we fail to address a number of far more elaborate fantasies that we have come to hold as inalienable truths in the west. By this I mean much more than just the idea that the Palestinian's as a body of people had all of a sudden come to recognize the state of Israel. Primarily we have a conception of religion in our post reformation world that does not in any way apply to the Islamic one. Our idea of the seperation between state and church -- our secularized society -- all of these things we have somehow grown so accustomed to that we have fallen into the fantasy of believing are universal -- spanning the breadth of humanity. Thus when idiot's write editorials addressed to major newspapers in Australia suggesting that we all see the terror operations in Israel within the context of Palestinian nationalism (presumably a purile leftist attempt to decrease the impact of these atrocities by trying to make them less alien to whoever wastes their time in reading the editorials) I shudder, because this is exactly the way such things should not be seen, it plays into the hands of the terrorists themselves -- and it is disgraceful that they have been able to manipulate our media so. I see the suicide bombings for what they are -- the latest set of atrocities in Islam's perpetual aggressive expansion and it's rage at the backward steps it took when the state of Israel was formed.

Militant Islam is more than a religion -- it is a political party and it would be more appropriate to see it within /this/ context rather than any other in the west. Its adherents come into other countries for the greater part with prepackaged immovable opinions in relation to many contentious topics. Invariably they tend to favor perspectives on womens rights, democracy, freedom of speech, freedom of religion and sexuality (lets not forget that). Contrary to one of the central propositions of this website Islam has declared war on us we cannot simply deny this fact and hope that through some process of osmosis the conflict will be resolved in our favor. Presently the evidence of this war this is all around us even if the attacks upon us are ad hoc in nature and not made by overt military invasion. The current danger of biological warfare has made the need for us to acknowledge the reality of our situation particularly urgent.

In concluding I would like to quote the religious leader of Hamas I do not have his words translated in front of me verbatim for me to put down so I write from memory. He said that one could not form a nation out of victims. When I heard them these words struck me as especially profound as in the west this is what evidently we have been attempting to do for the last thirty years at least. Again at this point I must make reference to the phenomenon of Political correctness, which I have come to see as essentially a perversion of our capacity for critical thinking and constructive self criticism -- it involves a degree of self examination that is both self defeating and neurotic on a national scale. Political correctness ascribes great status to victimhood -- so thusly the habit whether consciously or unconsciously is to pursue the state of victimhood -- to define the degree to which oneself is a victim and then seek recognition of this. Unintentionally then Hamas' religious leader had exposed what I believe to be our greatest weakness. The Islamic world is not unaware of this frailty indeed prominant Academics in Pakistan have written extensively on how the new political correctness could be used to infiltrate and destroy the west with the aim of converting it to Islam. If we were not our own greatest enemy then Islam would be much less of a threat.
Submitting....

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Reader comments (99) on this item

Title Commenter Date Thread
The Hashimites- Gershon [85 words]Eddie kiswaniNov 13, 2005 04:4528308
Why Oslo Hopes Turned to dust 09 Sep 2003 [36 words]S.C.PandaOct 16, 2003 04:0211801
Let Pres. Bush know... [154 words]Judith L. SchechterOct 2, 2003 10:0311653
Weapons of Mass Distruction [64 words]M.BambridgeMay 1, 2006 13:2611653
Weapons of Mass Destruction. [35 words]Maxine BambridgeMay 1, 2006 20:3111653
Coptic Pharaonic Republic represented 18 Million Coptic in Egypt [10 words]C.P.R. Government in exileOct 1, 2003 13:0311617
Mr. Pipes zeros in on the *real* problem [214 words]ramoSep 26, 2003 09:5911512
If only Mr. Pipes completed the picture... [284 words]Patrick FrielSep 25, 2003 14:3511503
Don't stereotype the multi-sided parties to the conflict [264 words]Gary NewmanSep 21, 2003 07:0311380
1Muslim Israeli? [149 words]YkSep 19, 2003 15:4811344
serb hater [15 words]serb haterFeb 4, 2007 10:5411344
"Basic Premise" [195 words]
w/response from Daniel Pipes
G. WoodSep 18, 2003 23:2011324
See: it got a few takers [186 words]Alain Jean-MairetMay 2, 2006 07:4211324
Hypocrites [83 words]Jack HigginsSep 17, 2003 21:0811286
Never Forget [25 words]Robert StamosSep 17, 2003 16:5511284
There is only one test for the PA, deal with terrorism [401 words]Jonathan PfefferSep 17, 2003 03:0511275
I don't understand [104 words]Richard EllisSep 16, 2003 21:4911271
A VERY SIMPLE SOLUTION TO END THE VIOLENCE [111 words]JennySep 16, 2003 15:5511266
Israeli government must share some culpability. [202 words]Tim DasSep 15, 2003 09:2811257
Wrong assumptions. [409 words]Motty PerelSep 15, 2003 00:2211253
...[T]he right policies.... [162 words]Charles T. G. PickettSep 13, 2003 04:3211243
Hamas Covenant [68 words]Jukian WassermanSep 13, 2003 01:4811241
After the dust clears [19 words]MarkSep 13, 2003 01:2711237
Do the Palestinians Really Want a State as More than Just a Means for Defeating Israel? [232 words]Avi SharabiSep 12, 2003 18:2011232
Why Oslo's Hopes Turned to Dust [235 words]Roger NormanSep 12, 2003 15:5011230
Correction to Number of Casualties [86 words]Michael GrudaSep 12, 2003 09:1911224
We are privileged to have you! [24 words]Ed KaplanSep 11, 2003 20:5611217
The unspoken additional price for peace [130 words]Haym L. RabinovitzSep 11, 2003 19:0711216
Many thanks [101 words]Steven SchipperSep 11, 2003 17:5211214
Amen [39 words]henry m rosenbaumSep 11, 2003 14:4211211
YOU DA MAN [11 words]Shimon LobelSep 11, 2003 13:3211208
Peace with Terrorists [108 words]Arlinda DeAngelisSep 11, 2003 04:4411206
Failure of a 'two state solution' [94 words]Fred SSep 11, 2003 03:1311205
How do you? [133 words]robert fusfeldSep 10, 2003 22:1411198
Turn Israel loose [78 words]Rev. George GuillorySep 10, 2003 21:1711196
Isn't it obvious? [218 words]Thomas SheehanSep 10, 2003 21:0311195
response [104 words]Gershon Y. Perry, M.D., F.A.C.C.Sep 10, 2003 19:5211194
sensible and logical approach [24 words]Dr. Matania GinosarSep 10, 2003 19:4711193
First you need a PR campaign [622 words]ByronSep 10, 2003 19:3111192
Oslo, The Road Map and other mistakes [60 words]Lindsey BinnieSep 10, 2003 18:0511191
Thank You [49 words]Denise ClarkSep 10, 2003 17:2111188
Clarify the message and win the hearts and minds of the Plestinians. [125 words]RPaineSep 10, 2003 16:0611186
2 state solution to the 'Palestinian' problem. [130 words]Robert DietrichSep 10, 2003 15:3511185
An oversimplification, but true [191 words]andrew freedmanSep 10, 2003 13:5511184
why oslo was doomed [140 words]Neil AbramsonSep 10, 2003 12:4711180
Agreed [164 words]TomSep 10, 2003 10:5511177
"Irredentist" ? [69 words]Virginia ThogersenSep 10, 2003 10:3211174
Why Oslo's Hopes Turned to Dust: Amen [47 words]Daniel WildmanSep 10, 2003 10:0911173
You Speak The Truth [141 words]M.Sep 10, 2003 09:4411172
YOUR VISION BRINGS HOPE [65 words]SheriSep 10, 2003 09:2911171
Great agenda to pursue in the next decade. However . . . [266 words]Mark from MissouriSep 10, 2003 08:3511168
No substitute for Victory [92 words]Glenn KlotzSep 10, 2003 08:3011167
The Main Point [31 words]David ShoupSep 10, 2003 07:4311163
The Arab curse of having no decent leadership [234 words]David HerschSep 10, 2003 06:3511162
not going far enough [150 words]yuval brandstetter MDSep 10, 2003 06:1511161
Why Oslo's Hopes Turned to Dust [340 words]Beverly RyanSep 10, 2003 03:2211158
Comment on -why Oslo's hopes turned to dust [194 words]yigal koltinSep 10, 2003 02:4211157
bravo [16 words]JOSEPH HADDADSep 10, 2003 02:4111156
You are right - This is first priority [239 words]MarySep 10, 2003 02:1011154
oslo [22 words]muhammad SiddiquiSep 10, 2003 02:0611153
REsponse to your article [22 words]Kate WillnerSep 10, 2003 01:5211151
intelligent person [12 words]art stollerSep 10, 2003 01:2711149
Your false assumption. [224 words]Sigmund SilberSep 10, 2003 01:0211148
The lessons of Oslo [122 words]Jeffrey S. SheffSep 10, 2003 00:5611147
Halleluya! [29 words]sabareeteSep 10, 2003 00:3811144
Thank you [19 words]S. WeisbergSep 10, 2003 00:2711143
re: Failed Oslo [31 words]lily FlacksSep 10, 2003 00:1511142
Amen! [17 words]Jean MallinSep 9, 2003 23:5711139
Re: Daniel Pipe's Comments on The failure of the Oslo accord. [1117 words]Reuben HorneSep 9, 2003 23:1711138
So Simple [132 words]Len RossenSep 9, 2003 23:1111136
Reality [117 words]Lance SilverSep 9, 2003 22:3911135
Only a miracle [35 words]Marion ChristiansenSep 9, 2003 22:3511134
Clinton's complicity [93 words]Lucas J. MeyerSep 9, 2003 21:5311131
Absolutely correct. [218 words]Joseph M. GrossmanSep 9, 2003 21:4711130
How? [142 words]MikeSep 9, 2003 20:3511129
It Ain't Gonna Happen [272 words]Ken LeondarSep 9, 2003 18:5411128
Completely agree with you [115 words]Jeffrey VaksSep 9, 2003 17:4511127
Why Oslo's [8 words]Andrei MorozovSep 9, 2003 17:2811126
Fair and sound suggestions [97 words]shahin shadmerSep 9, 2003 15:1411119
A Thought On Dealing Rationally With Those Irrational [67 words]Bruce L. MurraySep 9, 2003 15:0711118
Fantastic insight [92 words]Walter KopilowSep 9, 2003 14:3711117
Your proposed peace plans [335 words]Catherine LoganSep 9, 2003 14:2011116
A voice from the past [25 words]Marcia Kelly IllingworthJun 22, 2007 17:3411116
Approval [39 words]Steve MydanickSep 9, 2003 13:5511115
oslo's Hopes [41 words]Marilyn SolomonSep 9, 2003 13:4211114
Root cause of hatred [125 words]A.A.Sep 9, 2003 13:2411113
Thoughts on Hamas [223 words]ClintokSep 9, 2003 13:0311111
This article [35 words]RonSep 9, 2003 13:0111110
Approach for the Next Decade [65 words]Flora SteinmanSep 9, 2003 12:3911109
1What's the rush? [147 words]Arthur CordellSep 9, 2003 12:3911108
If only... [128 words]Helen BienstockSep 9, 2003 12:3211107
Forms of gov't [196 words]Gene LambsonSep 9, 2003 12:1711106
Oslo-death toll [19 words]Jack RauberSep 9, 2003 11:5811105
Outstanding Oslo Analysis [121 words]Adina KutnickiSep 9, 2003 11:5711104
Thank you [130 words]Chava CasperSep 9, 2003 11:4411103
The truth hurts [141 words]AJSep 9, 2003 11:4111102
Oslo and Road Map Failure [101 words]Robert AbramsSep 9, 2003 11:2211101
Let Israel win one war [54 words]Mike CohenSep 9, 2003 11:1211100
Right On! [14 words]Lynda KramerSep 9, 2003 10:4311099

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Note: Opinions expressed in comments are those of the authors alone and not necessarily those of Daniel Pipes. Original writing only, please. Comments are screened and in some cases edited before posting. Reasoned disagreement is welcome but not comments that are scurrilous, off-topic, commercial, disparaging religions, or otherwise inappropriate. For complete regulations, see the "Guidelines for Reader Comments".

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