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JustMe I misread

Reader comment on item: Something Rotten in Denmark?
in response to reader comment: Abdul Rahman - Christian ? Muslim ? Execution ?

Submitted by Hind Samy (Egypt), Mar 29, 2006 at 20:27

JustMe - I misread your post (it is very late here and I am quite tired ), and made a mistake, I am sorry. I will answer your amazement at the comment about in the absence of 4 witnesses.

Here is the whole issue, in 3 different interpretations (technically we don't call the Koran a Koran when it's written in any other language other than it's original language to avoid any confusion and because it ceases to become the literal word of God ).

YUSUFALI: And those who launch a charge against chaste women, and produce not four witnesses (to support their allegations),- flog them with eighty stripes; and reject their evidence ever after: for such men are wicked transgressors;-
PICKTHAL: And those who accuse honourable women but bring not four witnesses, scourge them (with) eighty stripes and never (afterward) accept their testimony - They indeed are evil-doers -
SHAKIR: And those who accuse free women then do not bring four witnesses, flog them, (giving) eighty stripes, and do not admit any evidence from them ever; and these it is that are the transgressors,

YUSUFALI: And for those who launch a charge against their spouses, and have (in support) no evidence but their own,- their solitary evidence (can be received) if they bear witness four times (with an oath) by Allah that they are solemnly telling the truth;
PICKTHAL: As for those who accuse their wives but have no witnesses except themselves; let the testimony of one of them be four testimonies, (swearing) by Allah that he is of those who speak the truth;
SHAKIR: And (as for) those who accuse their wives and have no witnesses except themselves, the evidence of one of these (should be taken) four times, bearing Allah to witness that he is most surely of the truthful ones.

YUSUFALI: And the fifth (oath) (should be) that they solemnly invoke the curse of Allah on themselves if they tell a lie.
PICKTHAL: And yet a fifth, invoking the curse of Allah on him if he is of those who lie.
SHAKIR: And the fifth (time) that the curse of Allah be on him if he is one of the liars.

YUSUFALI: But it would avert the punishment from the wife, if she bears witness four times (with an oath) By Allah, that (her husband) is telling a lie;
PICKTHAL: And it shall avert the punishment from her if she bear witness before Allah four times that the thing he saith is indeed false,
SHAKIR: And it shall avert the chastisement from her if she testify four times, bearing Allah to witness that he is most surely one of the liars;

YUSUFALI: And the fifth (oath) should be that she solemnly invokes the wrath of Allah on herself if (her accuser) is telling the truth.
PICKTHAL: And a fifth (time) that the wrath of Allah be upon her if he speaketh truth.
SHAKIR: And the fifth (time) that the wrath of Allah be on her if he is one of the truthful.

The same sura (chapter) goes on to explain the punishment of lying in these cases. As you can see there is no injustice to women here. Again, I apologise for having misread your post.

Swearing in the name of Allah (God) is a very serious matter indeed to a true Muslim, never to be taken lightly.
Please who me where the injustice is to women here?

As for women in countries you claim are oppressing women, I have not lived in these countries and don't know the state of women there, but it is not the fault of Islam, it would be the fault of the people allowing things contrary to Islam to occur. Muslims deviating from what the Koran teaches us will be punished for sure because God is all seeing. Many terrible things happen in the world and people justify them in any way they can but there will be justice in the end I believe. Just please don't put the religion at fault here - point your finger at the people who misuse it.

Here is another instance of equality between men and women in Islam:

YUSUFALI: The woman and the man guilty of adultery or fornication,- flog each of them with a hundred stripes: Let not compassion move you in their case, in a matter prescribed by Allah, if ye believe in Allah and the Last Day: and let a party of the Believers witness their punishment.
PICKTHAL: The adulterer and the adulteress, scourge ye each one of them (with) a hundred stripes. And let not pity for the twain withhold you from obedience to Allah, if ye believe in Allah and the Last Day. And let a party of believers witness their punishment.

Men are not less culpable when they commit adultery or fornication - and the whipping is symbolic, it's not as in whipping someone to death! It is a public whipping so as to publically shame the adulterers, and this is no longer practiced as I know of anyway.

In the end, as I have said before, I am not a theologian, I am not an expert in Islam, I try to learn more and understand more and this is my personal Jihad (ie. effort or struggle to get closer to God). I try to explain things to you as best as I can and God willing it is correct.

I have to say I found your comment:
"If Muslim women are so brainwashed to defend this BS"
to be particularly offensive - please bear in mind that you are referring to the Koran, my Holy book - and I would ask you to show a bit more respect to me as a person as I did not (and would not) insult your book even though I personally believe it to have been changed by people, I would still respect your love of it and would not want to offend you.

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