Submitted by Mike DeCastro (United States), Jun 4, 2007 at 16:36
First of all Mr. Navarro, I was there for the YK War. Were you? Probably not. Your comments speak volumes about your lack of understanding of what really happened during that war. I have to admit, your over-simplification both gave me a good laugh and also points out the sad state of historical education.
Israel was very nearly annihilated. Had it not been for the American airlift, we would have been completely overrun on both the Syrian and Egyptian fronts. We were out-gunned, out-maneuvered, out-strategized and utterly defeated in the first hours and days. We were defeated as much by our own hubris and stupidity such as the infamous Bar Lev Line, as we were by Soviet war planning, massive logistics, Spetznaz commandos embedded with Egyptian forces using Strela SA-7 SAMs against IAF low-flying aircraft and anti-tank missiles as well as Israel's own lack of effective logistics and military preparation.
In 1967, if Israel had not acted first, the country would have also been annihilated by vastly superior Arab armies. Study your history before leaping to conclusions unsupported by the facts.
As for the POW issue, I probably should have pointed out that technically, the IDF did not "execute prisoners", per se. It simply did not take any in the early hours and days of both wars. Obviously, in 1967 Israel would never want that intel to be acquired by the Egyptians. Ditto for 1973.
During the YK War, orders were given to take POWs only after the tide had turned thanks to the American airlift and the courage and resilience of the IDF. Military commanders and the government, namely PM Golda Meir and Defense Minister Moshe Dayan, realized the extent of Israeli POWs held by their Arabs. We knew we would need significantly greater numbers of Arab POWs to exchange for our POWs so orders went out to take prisoners. A technicality? Perhaps. But an important distinction.
Once again, I was not there for '67 but in '73, it was tough to get frontline units to take prisoners. Why? Simple. The Egyptians and Syrians both perpetrated the most horrific atrocities imaginable against IDF soldiers, many of whom had surrendered when faced with certain death by overwhelming forces during those early days. On the Bar Lev line, the Egyptians did not accept surrender, they simply bulldozed over the Israeli bunkers and buried our troops alive inside. Those that escaped were summarily shot and their bodies were butchered.
Fighting in Sinai was brutal and Israeli victories were hard won. The Battles at Baluza and the Chinese Farm were particularly difficult. The Egyptian ranks this time were bolstered by Soviet SpecOps troops. They made sure their Egyptian comrades did not surrender so easily this time. IDF forces in Sinai and on the Golan both captured Soviet POWs.
In Sinai, retreating Egyptians did not just drop their weapons and throw up their hands. Retreating forces booby-trapped the vehicles they left behind and even the bodies of their own dead comrades. Knowing the IDF would salvage the vehicles and bury their dead. Several Israeli lost their lives to those IEDs. At night, you could hear the wild dogs feasting on the corpses and occasionally, BOOM! An IED-rigged corpse would go off, dogs would yelp and then all was quiet. This is what war is really like. Not the oversimplified way you put it.
On the Golan, wounded Israelis were summarily executed. Forward observation posts that were cut-off and surrounded, with no more ammo and limited supplies had no choice but to surrender. The Syrians drove their tanks into the bunkers and fired point blank at defenseless Israeli troops inside rather than take them prisoner. One of my most prized photos is a dead Syrian T-62 doing just that on the basketball court of the bunker. It was killed in hand-to-had fighting by the last survivors of that Israeli outpost.
After word of Syrian and Egyptian atrocities spread, Israeli soldiers fought to the death. Israeli tank crews were going into battle with only a few rounds after their supplies ran out. They were firing one shot, one kill and vastly outnumbered against the most modern T-62 Soviet main battle tanks. When their ammo ran out, knowing there was nothing back at supply, they would ram the invading g Syrian tanks. When they wrecked their tanks, they attacked Syrian tanks with small arms and grenades. When their ammo ran out, they attacked the tanks with knives and rocks in hand-to-hand combat. Israeli troops were defending their homes and families on the Golan and in Galilee below.
The only thing that stopped the Syrian onslaught was that the Soviets miscalculated Israeli resistance. It was lighter than expected, the Syrians advanced too far, too fast. Their advance outran their logistics and literally ran out of gas at the B'not Ya'Acov bridges, the gateway to Galilee about Lake Kinneret.
Had President Nixon not risen to the occasion, ignored the fact that America's NATO allies (England, France, Italy, Greece)refused to allow any support for the American airlift to save Israel, and initiated the longest military airlift in world history from the United States to Tel Aviv non-stop with mid-air refueling – Israel would have been driven into the sea and the Jewish population of Galilee obliterated. No question about it. Ask anyone who was there. We know, first hand.
We knew what the Arabs had in mind. They were not bashful about it. They left "calling cards". Just like the IAF pilots who had their genitalia mutilated by their captors and were left to bleed out while crucified when they ejected from their crippled Skyhawks and were taken prisoner by Syrian forces near Mt. Hermon. Can you imagine the horror and outrage of seeing your comrades mutilated and strung up that way? I'm certain US Marines felt the same way at Fallujah when they saw the mutilated corpses of the American civilian contractors. I can, and let me tell you that taking prisoners becomes a very low priority after that.
So... Unless you've been there and stared Arab atrocities in the face, then or now, and realized that the only thing between those butchers and your family is you and you brothers and sister in arms, then come and talk to me about POWs and what really happens during the fog of war.
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| Title |
By |
Date |
| A fascinating theory [83 words] | Ephraim Margolin | Sep 6, 2007 14:47 |
| mig25 was operative in airforce in 1972 [50 words] | Tuvia Lerner (Chief editor of http://7kanal.com) | Jun 21, 2007 19:20 |
| The Soviets Six Day War - USS Liberty [99 words] | Davod | Jun 3, 2007 08:57 |
| Let's Not Overblame the Soviets [483 words] | Ron Thompson | Jun 2, 2007 14:37 |
| Interesting explanation - but the booty Israel won was mismanaged (This issue is more relevant) [158 words] | James Burke | Jun 2, 2007 09:52 |
| Enemies within [44 words] | Carl Hoffman | Jun 1, 2007 04:05 |
Error: Mig-25 Not Operational Until 1970 [w/response] [38 words] | Nathan | May 31, 2007 06:13 |
| ↔ Roger that [12 words] | Mike DeCastro | May 31, 2007 16:49 |
| Wrong Jet [66 words] | Stan Dadds | May 31, 2007 05:04 |
| ↔ Planes in 1967 [56 words] | Jan Poller | Jan 22, 2008 18:04 |
| "The Soviets' Six-Day War" theory and the Soviet archives [43 words] | Ianus | May 30, 2007 19:14 |
Questions about "Foxbats Over Dimona." [w/response] [481 words] | Dr. Steve Carol | May 30, 2007 17:53 |
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| ↔ Blackbird flights [145 words] | Mike DeCastro | Jun 5, 2007 20:40 |
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| Soviet hand?? [53 words] | Vijay | May 30, 2007 12:01 |
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| ↔ What are Russia's leaders doing? [214 words] | Pat | May 30, 2007 19:31 |
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| ↔ to Nikita [21 words] | AS | May 31, 2007 07:02 |
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| ↔ Negative image of Muslims in Russia and other parts of the world. [153 words] | Jaisingh Thakur | Jul 12, 2007 01:30 |
| ↔ We need to take over the oil-fields of the middle east from these barbarians [70 words] | Raju (India) | Jun 14, 2009 23:03 |
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| It's now a 40-year war [382 words] | Pat | May 29, 2007 22:16 |
| Tiran [23 words] | DOV KORET | May 29, 2007 21:05 |
| The ties deepen [84 words] | David W. Lincoln | May 29, 2007 20:14 |
| Egypt Was A Willing Participant [191 words] | Andrew Stunich | May 29, 2007 17:45 |
| ↔ Not buying it [92 words] | bernardZ | May 29, 2007 23:55 |
| Former Soviet Ambitions - Then and Now [346 words] | M. Tovey | May 29, 2007 16:07 |
| Very interesting but I do not believe it! [275 words] | dhimmi no more | May 29, 2007 15:47 |
| ↔ to dhimmi no more [77 words] | FOX | May 30, 2007 12:41 |
| ↔ I also don't believe it. [136 words] | Vijay | May 30, 2007 18:03 |
| ↔ Thank you very much [31 words] | dhimmi no more | May 30, 2007 19:44 |
USS Liberty? [w/response] [40 words] | Patrick Hupp | May 29, 2007 15:15 |
| ↔ USS Liberty, the rest of the story [792 words] | Mike DeCastro | May 30, 2007 17:16 |
| ↔ Very Informative [185 words] | Oscar Navarro | Jun 3, 2007 20:23 |
| ↔ ⇒ POWs and what really happens during the fog of war [1053 words] | Mike DeCastro | Jun 4, 2007 16:36 |
| ↔ Very odd theory [96 words] | Y.K. | Jun 5, 2007 10:10 |
| ↔ Not a theory [229 words] | Mike DeCastro | Jun 5, 2007 20:49 |
| Past Prologue to Future [72 words] | Michael | May 29, 2007 14:48 |
| Interesting, but . . . [242 words] | Edward Halper | May 29, 2007 14:27 |
| Soviet Military Intelligence officer discussed the Six-Day War 20 years ago [85 words] | Wayne Wagner | May 29, 2007 14:10 |
| ↔ Questionable source [168 words] | Oscar Navarro | Jun 3, 2007 20:50 |
| studying islam since 9/11 to find out why they hate us [138 words] | good_bar | May 29, 2007 13:55 |
| ↔ I agree with good_bar [208 words] | Homefront | May 29, 2007 19:38 |
| ↔ They hate us because that's what they are taught!!! [116 words] | Jaladhi | May 30, 2007 14:02 |
| ↔ Goebbels not Stalin [87 words] | Oscar Navarro | Jun 4, 2007 18:24 |
| Agree with your conlusion - Dr. Pipes [92 words] | Jaladhi | May 29, 2007 13:14 |
| Interesting Thesis [138 words] | David Fine | May 29, 2007 12:54 |
Dr. Pipes, please expound . . . [w/response] [18 words] | Ploni | May 29, 2007 11:46 |
| ↔ The Reason for the Mistaken 1993 (and following) Policies [338 words] | Ron Thompson | Jun 2, 2007 15:16 |