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The legacy of 'Shivaji'

Reader comment on item: Is Tariq Ramadan Lying [about Magdi Allam]?
in response to reader comment: Hindukush = hindu killer

Submitted by Frahad Navkhoda (United Kingdom), Apr 23, 2007 at 06:02

Dear Vishvas,

I read your comments with interest but with slight bewilderment.... your arguments are not constructive and if they referred to any other group of people, they would not be regarded as acceptable. I have read some of your previous comments on this forum which range from the delirious to almost profanity. I have replied to some under my name Frahad if you care to read.

You can not downplay the relationship between Islam, Christianity and Judaism. Islam seems itself as a continuation of true Christianity and as a true form of Judaism. Like Christians, Muslims also await the return of Jesus. It appears that you almost revel at the idea of conflict between these three great monolithic religions and that you are getting enormous pleasure in the idea that they are in a perpetual state of fighting.

You complain that Muslims appear not to apologise and indeed revel in the Idea of past victories and invasions. It seems that our Hindu brothers are constructing their own 'heroes' such as Shivaji. Need I remind you that he plundered and held to ransom several Indian cities and almost destroyed the Western port city of Surat. You band about statistic to justify your arguments. Even after centuries of rule on the Indian Sub-continent, Muslims only account for around two-fifths of the population and no more.

Yes, you are correct in your interpretation of the Geographical name 'Hindu Kush'. It does mean 'Killers of Hindu's' at a time when 'Hindu' referred to a people and not adherents of a religion. Hindu's at the time referred to followers of Krishna, Shiva and Vishna, Buddhists and Jains et al ( one wonders what lead to the demise of Buddhists and Jains in India! could it be the intolerance of followers of Krishna, Shiva and Vishnu?) The mountain range was called Hindu Kush as in prevented marauding Hindu armies from ever crossing into Persia. I will have to check your dating of the name as I believed that the name predated the Muslim advance on the Sind, I would like to establish that this is not an 'In-built lie' (your phrase). It is interesting to note at this point that Hindus have only recently learnt to differentiate between culture and religion and it took the British to unite the many kingdoms and states into one Unified country.

You infer that all Muslims are kept ignorant by their leaders. From the earliest days Muslims have been encouraged to seek knowledge 'even unto the gates of China' and education was encouraged for both men and women and for all sections of the community. I find your generalisation laughable. For Muslims, the relationship between God and Man is personal, i would not expect non-Abrahamians to grasp the concept of 'The final judgement'. Muslims, Jews and Christians are familiar already with this. From a culture where the Brahmin are the sole custodian for all religious knowledge and the rigid caste sytem promotes ignorance and servitude, maybe you should concentate on addressing and improving the lot of your own kinsfolk.

You have failed (delibrately?) to grasp the diversity of the various Muslim communities that represent a quarter of the world family, do you find it easy to deal with them as one dehumanised species?


Note: Opinions expressed in comments are those of the authors alone and not necessarily those of Daniel Pipes. Original writing only, please. Comments are screened and in some cases edited before posting. Reasoned disagreement is welcome but not comments that are scurrilous, off-topic, commercial, disparaging religions, or otherwise inappropriate. For complete regulations, see the "Guidelines for Reader Comments".

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Reader comments (105) on this item

Title Commenter Date Thread
3Brave Man [54 words]skmillerApr 2, 2008 10:34124411
Magdi Allam Could Create A Berlin Wall Breakdown Effect [33 words]AnneMApr 4, 2008 19:10124411
Clapping with thumbs!!! [108 words]MansoorApr 7, 2008 16:09124411
response to Clapping with thumbs!!! by Mansoor [210 words]IfrahimJan 15, 2009 17:23124411
1Islam and Choice of faith [134 words]agusmiswantoApr 1, 2008 00:55124273
Freedom of Relgion [52 words]tamimisledusMar 26, 2014 04:03124273
really not a big deal..... [88 words]ahmadzafireMar 30, 2008 21:06124138
you must have heard of this.... [14 words]ohmegoshApr 1, 2008 05:13124138
Christianity [53 words]Clifford IshiiMar 25, 2008 17:14123622
Magdi Christiano Allam I salute you! [45 words]Liliana DiPerna-CohenMar 24, 2008 07:40123473
Magdi or Madbee [111 words]MansoorApr 3, 2008 15:20123473
Magdi or Madbee, what`s in a name? [22 words]mytwocentsApr 5, 2008 08:45123473
thanks Pope Benedict [56 words]Jerome Mc KennaMar 23, 2008 20:49123428
It's not another proof [16 words]ZakoMar 23, 2008 16:53123405
Orthodoxes are already baptized [44 words]SantiagoMar 24, 2008 08:02123405
Catholics don't rebaptize [88 words]Michael E. Stora, Ph.D.Apr 3, 2008 23:44123405
Magdi Allam: Congratulations [21 words]dhimmi no moreMar 23, 2008 07:06123341
Allam's Easter Conversion [47 words]
w/response from Daniel Pipes
Oakes SpaldingMar 22, 2008 19:09123286
I would have taken them to the cleaners [34 words]dhimmi no moreMar 4, 2008 08:01121701
Congradulations to Dr. Pipes! [66 words]jennifer solisMar 3, 2008 19:09121660
"Muslim Weekly" Apologizes to Daniel Pipes -- sweeeeeet [112 words]KristaMar 3, 2008 16:56121650
1Cheers and Congratulations to Dr. Pipes/ Muslims weekly [18 words]YnnatchkahMar 3, 2008 22:05121650
Not a Muslim [132 words]IsaacMar 22, 2008 23:59121650
Not a Muslim ? [102 words]KristaMar 31, 2008 19:22121650
10Lying is permitted in Islam (Taquia) [188 words]DavidDec 24, 2007 13:17116862
Tariq Ramadan in a confused man [76 words]Saleem AkhtarMar 28, 2007 19:5488151
1moderate Islam is an impossiblility. Reformation of Islam is impossible [256 words]ForrestMar 18, 2007 14:1386759
"Muhammad beheaded thousands", Mr Forrest? [9 words]AmriAug 22, 2007 13:5686759
where does it say [17 words]Oz.Mar 14, 2010 16:2686759
Tariq Ramadan forced to retract defamatory statements [163 words]Jean-Charles BrisardMar 7, 2007 15:4080725
Lying is a tool [85 words]OllieMar 7, 2007 19:1880725
Very interesting [231 words]dhimmi no moreApr 8, 2007 16:2980725
Why he is in Europe [102 words]DavidDec 24, 2007 13:3180725
What Pipes did not notice [66 words]Zahirah ShakirMar 7, 2007 15:0180715
Is Tariq Ramadhan Lying? [63 words]OllieMar 7, 2007 13:2880700
He's trying to open up everybody's mind so there's no racalism [9 words]Hamba AllahNov 25, 2009 09:1580700
Everything he needed to know he learned from Nietzsche [101 words]Archimedes2Mar 6, 2007 19:2780590
I am Italian [114 words]OctavioMar 6, 2007 19:0180585
Fretting & Whining [296 words]Abu NuwasMar 6, 2007 10:3680528
We've seen things like this before [40 words]Peter HerzMar 6, 2007 07:1580515
Tariq Ramadan and self hate! [213 words]dhimmi no moreMar 6, 2007 06:5880514
Copts [49 words]CVTMar 9, 2007 11:5880514
Copts [40 words]dhimmi no moreMar 9, 2007 18:1480514
Copts [64 words]cvtMar 14, 2007 08:5280514
COPTS NUMBER CLOSER TO 15-20% [97 words]MOROUSMar 16, 2007 12:4880514
When Arabs are going to return Egypt to the Egyptians? [64 words]Alex SabyMar 25, 2008 23:2780514
5Lying endemic to Arab culture? [171 words]Will ScottMar 6, 2007 04:3380497
Never thank...never apologize [108 words]NounaApr 3, 2007 21:1080497
Arabs and admitting mistakes [290 words]Hugo SJul 8, 2011 04:5380497
Can't imagine D Pipes other than truthful [138 words]ptorpisMar 5, 2007 23:3180473
Are his lips moving? [220 words]SusanMar 5, 2007 23:2380471
Answer to Susan ( Is Tarik Ramadan lying??) [49 words]rachelle assoulineMar 12, 2007 10:5280471
Tariq Ramadan cannot be trusted [162 words]FaqiMar 5, 2007 22:5280466
Tariq Ramadan about his grandfather Hassan al-Banna [160 words]GudrunMar 7, 2007 06:3380466
Response to Mr. Gudrun [154 words]FaqiMar 7, 2007 21:0280466
More Lights about Islamic Dawah resources [37 words]ibrahim muhammadSep 27, 2007 12:2880466
Squirm and lash out [137 words]David W. LincolnMar 5, 2007 22:3880464
This debate appears like walking in a mine field... [238 words]Rick HouseMar 5, 2007 21:2680452
Let us Calm Down [50 words]Romesh ChanderMar 5, 2007 21:2480451
Romesh Chander, your comment can be considered anti-Semitic, [50 words]Andras BerenyMar 3, 2008 19:3580451
Reply to Andras Bereny [50 words]Romesh ChanderMar 4, 2008 16:5580451
Nono, I understood it perfectly [32 words]Andras BerenyMar 4, 2008 20:2980451
Reply to Andras -- again [73 words]Romesh ChanderMar 5, 2008 18:3780451
Attacked by Taqiya Ramadan? Wear It As a Badge of Honor. [433 words]David LMar 5, 2007 21:1680450
Ramadan/Allam [109 words]ankhfnkhonsuMar 5, 2007 20:3880449
Ramadan snagged on a careless lie [298 words]Archimedes2Mar 5, 2007 19:5880434
Ramadan, the Islamic wolf in sheep's clothing [68 words]SanchezMar 5, 2007 19:5580432
Close reading of Text/Speech [103 words]Robin LathangueMar 5, 2007 19:3780430
Lying by the book [92 words]Jacques BakkeMar 5, 2007 19:1480429
Tariq Ramadan:Liar -Liar Rants For Hire! Claims $900 to Hamas irrelevant since charity' wasnt yet illegal [230 words]Ben van de PolderMar 5, 2007 19:1480428
Ramadan [55 words]Stephane S LubiczMar 5, 2007 18:3880419
REBUTTAL [65 words]David R.GroesbeckMar 5, 2007 18:3780418
translation from the Italian [168 words]
w/response from Daniel Pipes
Stephanie CookMar 5, 2007 17:5980409
Lying [118 words]Donald W. BalesMar 5, 2007 17:1780399
Tariq Ramadan is lying all the time! [195 words]EussnerMar 5, 2007 17:0680396
Islam and dishonesty [103 words]G. VishvasMar 6, 2007 06:4680396
Response to Visvas [104 words]Frahad NavkhodaApr 17, 2007 11:1080396
To Frahad Navkhoda [874 words]G.VishvasApr 18, 2007 06:0880396
A sword disguised as a pen [306 words]Response to VishvasApr 20, 2007 05:1880396
1Hindukush = hindu killer [1501 words]G.VishvasApr 21, 2007 05:1780396
The legacy of 'Shivaji' [544 words]Frahad NavkhodaApr 23, 2007 06:0280396
To Frahad [393 words]G.VishvasApr 24, 2007 04:0780396
Further Comments to Frahad [697 words]G.VishvasApr 25, 2007 03:4980396
Merchant of Mischief [280 words]Frahad NavkhodaApr 26, 2007 06:3780396
To Frahad Navkhoda (II) [1072 words]G.VishvasApr 27, 2007 04:4080396
Regurgitated seven times by a holy cow [120 words]Frahad NavkhodaApr 30, 2007 04:2580396
of holy cows [251 words]G.VishvasMay 1, 2007 06:1580396
Extremism is a multi faced monster [282 words]Frahad NavkhodaMay 2, 2007 06:2580396
About the caste system [335 words]G.VishvasMay 3, 2007 04:0780396
A spoon full of honey helps the medicine go down [327 words]a hillMay 27, 2007 00:4780396
about responses [91 words]G.VishvasMay 28, 2007 04:0280396
Muslims [112 words]NariAug 18, 2007 22:4780396
Hindus have always been the most tolerant. [61 words]Satish JJan 11, 2012 10:4680396
Allam is 100% Muslim [132 words]Domenico GattiMar 5, 2007 16:3280393
Born a Muslim, always a Muslim, according to the Qur'an [50 words]Mark-Alan WhittleMar 5, 2007 18:4080393
Scrupulous [59 words]Steve BalogMar 5, 2007 15:5980389
reply to Mr.G.Vishvas article May 1 -2007 [510 words]p.rMay 1, 2007 18:4480389
to P. R. [498 words]G.VishvasMay 2, 2007 04:5680389
Reply to Mr. G.Vishvas. [628 words]P.RMay 4, 2007 07:2480389
God and reason [155 words]G.VishvasMay 5, 2007 04:1980389
Shame. [223 words]surjMay 5, 2007 11:3380389
To Mr.Surj and Mr.Vishvas [297 words]P.RMay 6, 2007 05:0680389
Understand each other [215 words]B.K. NambiarMay 13, 2007 04:5380389
PR and safety [125 words]ThiaganApr 3, 2008 07:1880389
PR and safety [314 words]ThiaganApr 5, 2008 00:4480389

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Note: Opinions expressed in comments are those of the authors alone and not necessarily those of Daniel Pipes. Original writing only, please. Comments are screened and in some cases edited before posting. Reasoned disagreement is welcome but not comments that are scurrilous, off-topic, commercial, disparaging religions, or otherwise inappropriate. For complete regulations, see the "Guidelines for Reader Comments".

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