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Survival is the issue, not doctrine

Reader comment on item: Why the Paris Massacre Will Have Limited Impact
in response to reader comment: My aim is getting to a majority of Democratic Citizens to hold Muslims accountable for religious choice

Submitted by Michael S (United States), Dec 17, 2015 at 09:06

Hi, Demsci. You said,

"It seems obvious no majority will ever condemn the whole Islam (Although I read in IsraelNatNews that Japan seems to keep Islam very much at arm's length). But neither can maybe 30 to 45 % of Dem.citizens accept Islam totally unqualified, it seems. I have this compromise and it is based on the concept that Islam is VAGUE, not CLEAR. While Democracy, our creed, can be very clear indeed and beat Islamic theory soundly in that respect."

I am descended from Jan Van Haarlem, a Dutch captain-turned-pirate, who converted to Islam to gain his freedom from an Algerian prison. He became a Barbary pirate, kidnapping entire towns and selling their inhabitants for ransom. His sons, Anthony (my ancestor) and Abraham Van Salee, by a Moorish concubine, were probably the first Muslims in North America; but the next generation were Dutch Reformed. They were let into this country, because Jan (aka "Pirate John" and "El Caid Murato") had political clout in a world of rampant piracy, kidnapping and suddenly changing political alliances -- a world, in fact, much like it has been the past seven years under Obama.

I suppose you can blame the Dutch, then, and my family in particular, for letting this Muslim madness get into America. Around this time, we had an "immigrant crisis" of some Semitic immigrants trying to gain residence in New York without proper papers:

"Freedom of religion was also tested when Peter Stuyvesant refused to allow Jewish refugees from Dutch Brazil to settle permanently in New Amsterdam (without passports) and join the existing community of Jews (with passports from Amsterdam). Stuyvesant attempted to have Jews "in a friendly way to depart" the colony. As he wrote to the Amsterdam Chamber of the Dutch West India Company in 1654 he hoped that "the deceitful race, — such hateful enemies and blasphemers of the name of Christ, — be not allowed to further infect and trouble this new colony." He referred to Jews as a "repugnant race" and "usurers", and was concerned that "Jewish settlers should not be granted the same liberties enjoyed by Jews in Holland, lest members of other persecuted minority groups, such as Roman Catholics, be attracted to the colony"

-- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peter_Stuyvesant

The Dutch India Company overruled Stuyvesant, and the new Jews were allowed to stay. Thus began our slide into the current lack of discrimination and discernment of incoming alien religions. I think you can see by this, one reason that American Jews are some of the biggest advocates of accepting Muslims. You went on,

"In my scheme the West need no longer uncritically tolerate the clearly intolerant, but also no longer the too irresponsibly vague neutral Muslims. Only Democratic Muslims can be allowed to immigrate, including for marriage, and they must be on lifelong probation."

You are suggesting that we somehow sort out the "doctrinally correct" Muslims from the real lulus. How can you expect this, of a people who can't even discern between Islam, Judaism, Christianity, Mormonism, Unitarianism, Deism, Agnosticism, Atheism and the myriad other religions and ideologies that make their way to our shores (and in some cases, even sprout up here as "native")? I believe that Muslims, "good" or "bad", are living in darkness -- as are probably the majority of Christians and Jews, based not on Qur'an but on the Bible -- a book that I and millions of other Americans trust to be the true word of God. That Bible tells me that there is none good, no, not one; that we are all sons of Hell and in need of repentance; and that those who are acceptable to God are so only because of His grace and forgiveness.

Who should be kept out of the country, based on the scriptures? Practically everyone! But then, how would we live? Even our Pilgrim ancestors accepted unchurched settlers such as Miles Standish, because we needed them for our survival. Now, as then, that ought to be our criterion for accepting or rejecting immigrants: "Will they enhance, or detract from, our ability to survive as a people?"

This is not a matter of doctrinal correctness. I couldn't care less, whether a Muslim is correctly or incorrectly following Qur'an, or even whether he or she is "doctrinally inclined" to radicalization. All I know, is that Muslims are particularly susceptible to Jihadi madness, and few others are. It's just common sense, then, as a matter of American national survival, that we exclude them from immigration until further notice.

Submitting....

Note: Opinions expressed in comments are those of the authors alone and not necessarily those of Daniel Pipes. Original writing only, please. Comments are screened and in some cases edited before posting. Reasoned disagreement is welcome but not comments that are scurrilous, off-topic, commercial, disparaging religions, or otherwise inappropriate. For complete regulations, see the "Guidelines for Reader Comments".

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Reader comments (98) on this item

Title Commenter Date Thread
5 P's [18 words]
w/response from Daniel Pipes
DSan MancusoMay 19, 2018 23:04243033
city of Antwerpen to give machinepistols to their police force [92 words]mythDec 8, 2015 13:50226879
agreed [8 words]albertoNov 28, 2015 07:17226595
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1Establishment's Denial of Reality ... [487 words]Domenic PepeNov 21, 2015 08:22226488
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Excllent article Dr. Pipes and quite true [169 words]kmanNov 20, 2015 01:04226472
An annotation concerning Germany [182 words]Wolf DoleysNov 19, 2015 08:57226465
What can we do? [36 words]DougNov 18, 2015 20:29226453
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Why [20 words]
w/response from Daniel Pipes
L. H. MorseNov 16, 2015 16:43226423
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2Islamists are Muslims!! So lets just call them Muslims!! [67 words]JaladhiNov 16, 2015 13:59226422
The checking of facts [90 words]
w/response from Daniel Pipes
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There is an Assumption in Your Analysis [113 words]djolds1Nov 16, 2015 09:14226415
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w/response from Daniel Pipes
Andrew_M_GarlandNov 15, 2015 19:23226409
Pipes: Explaining the Denial [174 words]Andrew_M_GarlandNov 21, 2015 19:12226409
France to close down some mosques [47 words]PezDispenserNov 15, 2015 18:21226406
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Denying reality [95 words]JohnBNov 15, 2015 14:23226403
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On Removing Blinders ... [125 words]Domenic PepeNov 28, 2015 12:20226401
Religion is a social disease [13 words]LarryNov 15, 2015 10:09226399
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I largely agree, BUT . . . [129 words]
w/response from Daniel Pipes
Nora BrinkerNov 15, 2015 09:52226397
Less Than Decades [126 words]
w/response from Daniel Pipes
BoogsXNov 15, 2015 09:36226395
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1the significance of football as a medium translates the abstract into the concrete [785 words]mythNov 15, 2015 08:45226393
Islam is irresponsibly vague and thus not clear [322 words]DemsciNov 15, 2015 07:08226392
1Islam is crystal clear to Muslims in its instructions ... [192 words]JaladhiNov 21, 2015 14:17226392
Another strategy [492 words]DemsciNov 29, 2015 10:04226392
Islamic History and "Moderate" Islam [653 words]Michael SNov 30, 2015 17:30226392
Islam is crystal clear to Muslims in its instructions to kill infidels!! [246 words]JaladhiDec 3, 2015 15:22226392
Calling Islam clear is a compliment, calling it vague, multi-interpretable is the real insult [428 words]DemsciDec 4, 2015 19:21226392
I aim for our majority to hold each Muslim among us accountable for clinging to unqualified Islam [389 words]DemsciDec 4, 2015 19:46226392
Muslims and radicalization [209 words]Michael SDec 8, 2015 19:56226392
Telling Islam is clear cut in its instructions is not complimentary- just telling the truth!! [427 words]JaladhiDec 9, 2015 11:38226392
My aim is getting to a majority of Democratic Citizens to hold Muslims accountable for religious choice [548 words]DemsciDec 13, 2015 00:26226392
My focus is on: CLEAR Democracy, opinion of our majority, Citizens, what Muslims think and do is secundary. [248 words]DemsciDec 13, 2015 00:45226392
I think you obfuscate more than I do [323 words]DemsciDec 13, 2015 01:10226392
Clarity instead of doubt and relying on our own judgement of Islam [212 words]DemsciDec 14, 2015 01:33226392
Survival is the issue, not doctrine [751 words]Michael SDec 17, 2015 09:06226392
Pro-Democracy instead of just anti-Islam, getting into the habit, toward precision-Democracy [313 words]DemsciDec 21, 2015 10:15226392
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Yes, survival of Western Democratic system is paramount [244 words]DemsciDec 22, 2015 05:49226392
The Muslim god, and other gods. [804 words]Michael SDec 24, 2015 07:56226392
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Iran or ISIS? No comparison. [114 words]
w/response from Daniel Pipes
AnonNov 15, 2015 03:32226388
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Question for Dr Pipes [110 words]
w/response from Daniel Pipes
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India not included ?? [49 words]
w/response from Daniel Pipes
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2Response to Daniel Pipes [148 words]
w/response from Daniel Pipes
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w/response from Daniel Pipes
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3We can always learn from history [229 words]dhimmi no moreNov 23, 2015 17:03226375
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Your Prediction of Little or No Impact [210 words]RonnieNov 14, 2015 17:47226374
corresponding roles of Beirut and Paris [42 words]mythNov 20, 2015 08:03226374
1The Beirut atrocity [46 words]dhimmi no moreNov 24, 2015 07:24226374
Your analysis is (unfortunately) correct [53 words]BillNov 14, 2015 17:29226373
Irrational Response of Intellectuals to Muslim Violence [144 words]Ilbert PhillipsNov 14, 2015 17:17226372
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I wonder to what extent we can maintain this split [297 words]
w/response from Daniel Pipes
Atanas ShinikovNov 14, 2015 15:53226369
Syrian refugees [28 words]anonNov 14, 2015 15:50226368
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w/response from Daniel Pipes
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I agree with Dr Pipes [53 words]y Brandstetter MDNov 22, 2015 11:09226365
1Radical Muslims [47 words]TKListNov 14, 2015 14:36226364

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Note: Opinions expressed in comments are those of the authors alone and not necessarily those of Daniel Pipes. Original writing only, please. Comments are screened and in some cases edited before posting. Reasoned disagreement is welcome but not comments that are scurrilous, off-topic, commercial, disparaging religions, or otherwise inappropriate. For complete regulations, see the "Guidelines for Reader Comments".

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