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My aim is getting to a majority of Democratic Citizens to hold Muslims accountable for religious choice

Reader comment on item: Why the Paris Massacre Will Have Limited Impact
in response to reader comment: Muslims and radicalization

Submitted by Demsci (Netherlands), Dec 13, 2015 at 00:26

Hi, Michael S.

Good that you were able to interact cordially with Muslim citizens. Yes, some of them are devout and may have good, desirable traits, being serious, moral, spiritual. Good of you to try to estimate what and how they think, considering their history in the process. We can very much use this experience and knowledge for new policies.

But my primary aim was finding a way to persuade a 51 % majority of Western Democratic Citizens to come to holding Muslims (esp. our Muslim citizens) accountable for choosing the version of their religion. It seems obvious no majority will ever condemn the whole Islam (Although I read in IsraelNatNews that Japan seems to keep Islam very much at arm's length).

But neither can maybe 30 to 45 % of Dem.citizens accept Islam totally unqualified, it seems. I have this compromise and it is based on the concept that Islam is VAGUE, not CLEAR. While Democracy, our creed, can be very clear indeed and beat Islamic theory soundly in that respect.

Quran-Hadiths-Sira must have been completed, collected when? Say 850 AD? Those can be considered original Islam and we may humor Muslims calling them Divine and essential. But Muslims simply must admit, if they are honest, that TAFSIR since 850 is manmade!

Quran-Hadiths-Sira can then be considered vague, obsolete, incomplete, irresponsibly multi-interpretable, and in effect understood by a far too large part of Muslims worldwide as violent and supremacist anti-Democratic, Hostile to us. And manmade Tafsir can be viewed as only part of the possible interpretations of QHS. We can concede that so many other Muslims, including the nice, peaceful Muslims we love, have a RIGHT interpretation of QHS, because the very VAGUENESS of QHS allows their interpretation too.

Now, again, it is not my aim that Muslims adopt this idea, but that a majority of Democratic Citizens becomes convinced that Islam is irresponsibly multi-interpretable. And that that must be combined with holding Muslims accountable for their religious choice, that is their interpretation of Islam.

The way out for Muslims is to declare themselves Democratic Muslims and that they are prepared to be well monitored and yes, segregated from the other Muslims, on Democratic conditions, which are at least partially controllable, although deceit remains a huge problem.

But, once the Democratic conditions are clearly broken, legal consequences should ensue, including nudging to migration to Islamic countries.

In my scheme the West need no longer uncritically tolerate the clearly intolerant, but also no longer the too irresponsibly vague neutral Muslims. Only Democratic Muslims can be allowed to immigrate, including for marriage, and they must be on lifelong probation.

But my scheme requires Democratic Citizens to focus not primarily on being anti-Islamic, but primarily on being Pro-Democratic. This then requires Democratic Citizens and Muslims alike to become experts on the Essential Democratic Rules, Tenets, Values and talk extensively about THEM. Now, we see that both groups talk about Islam's tenets and values and history and inclinations of it's followers all the time.

I know my scheme seems far from foolproof, it's just that we should focus on what we are FOR, as well as on what we are AGAINST. Not just on what we are against. FOR should trump Against among us. (On the Muslim-side FOR certainly trumps AGAINST).

Submitting....

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Reader comments (98) on this item

Title Commenter Date Thread
5 P's [18 words]
w/response from Daniel Pipes
DSan MancusoMay 19, 2018 23:04243033
city of Antwerpen to give machinepistols to their police force [92 words]mythDec 8, 2015 13:50226879
agreed [8 words]albertoNov 28, 2015 07:17226595
More Anger & Contempt directed to the establishment [84 words]David W. LincolnNov 24, 2015 14:27226548
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1Establishment's Denial of Reality ... [487 words]Domenic PepeNov 21, 2015 08:22226488
French establishment wake up to the specific origin of the attack [77 words]mythNov 20, 2015 07:57226478
Excllent article Dr. Pipes and quite true [169 words]kmanNov 20, 2015 01:04226472
An annotation concerning Germany [182 words]Wolf DoleysNov 19, 2015 08:57226465
What can we do? [36 words]DougNov 18, 2015 20:29226453
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1After Effects Of The Massacre [122 words]DajjalNov 17, 2015 01:13226431
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Why [20 words]
w/response from Daniel Pipes
L. H. MorseNov 16, 2015 16:43226423
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2Islamists are Muslims!! So lets just call them Muslims!! [67 words]JaladhiNov 16, 2015 13:59226422
The checking of facts [90 words]
w/response from Daniel Pipes
Kaare Magnus DreyerNov 16, 2015 13:56226421
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I confess I was so wrong [135 words]JeffNov 20, 2015 13:48226420
Maybe in the USA, but not in France [145 words]Barry BlackNov 16, 2015 12:22226419
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Again [2 words]WardNov 16, 2015 11:40226418
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Andrew_M_GarlandNov 15, 2015 19:23226409
Pipes: Explaining the Denial [174 words]Andrew_M_GarlandNov 21, 2015 19:12226409
France to close down some mosques [47 words]PezDispenserNov 15, 2015 18:21226406
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Denying reality [95 words]JohnBNov 15, 2015 14:23226403
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On Removing Blinders ... [125 words]Domenic PepeNov 28, 2015 12:20226401
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w/response from Daniel Pipes
Nora BrinkerNov 15, 2015 09:52226397
Less Than Decades [126 words]
w/response from Daniel Pipes
BoogsXNov 15, 2015 09:36226395
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Islam is irresponsibly vague and thus not clear [322 words]DemsciNov 15, 2015 07:08226392
1Islam is crystal clear to Muslims in its instructions ... [192 words]JaladhiNov 21, 2015 14:17226392
Another strategy [492 words]DemsciNov 29, 2015 10:04226392
Islamic History and "Moderate" Islam [653 words]Michael SNov 30, 2015 17:30226392
Islam is crystal clear to Muslims in its instructions to kill infidels!! [246 words]JaladhiDec 3, 2015 15:22226392
Calling Islam clear is a compliment, calling it vague, multi-interpretable is the real insult [428 words]DemsciDec 4, 2015 19:21226392
I aim for our majority to hold each Muslim among us accountable for clinging to unqualified Islam [389 words]DemsciDec 4, 2015 19:46226392
Muslims and radicalization [209 words]Michael SDec 8, 2015 19:56226392
Telling Islam is clear cut in its instructions is not complimentary- just telling the truth!! [427 words]JaladhiDec 9, 2015 11:38226392
My aim is getting to a majority of Democratic Citizens to hold Muslims accountable for religious choice [548 words]DemsciDec 13, 2015 00:26226392
My focus is on: CLEAR Democracy, opinion of our majority, Citizens, what Muslims think and do is secundary. [248 words]DemsciDec 13, 2015 00:45226392
I think you obfuscate more than I do [323 words]DemsciDec 13, 2015 01:10226392
Clarity instead of doubt and relying on our own judgement of Islam [212 words]DemsciDec 14, 2015 01:33226392
Survival is the issue, not doctrine [751 words]Michael SDec 17, 2015 09:06226392
Pro-Democracy instead of just anti-Islam, getting into the habit, toward precision-Democracy [313 words]DemsciDec 21, 2015 10:15226392
We need a big reaction, but part of it is declaring Islam irresponsibly multi-interpretable [145 words]DemsciDec 21, 2015 21:22226392
Yes, survival of Western Democratic system is paramount [244 words]DemsciDec 22, 2015 05:49226392
The Muslim god, and other gods. [804 words]Michael SDec 24, 2015 07:56226392
Clarity vs Democracy, etc [792 words]Michael SDec 24, 2015 18:05226392
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THANX [63 words]Steve BakerNov 15, 2015 06:20226391
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Iran or ISIS? No comparison. [114 words]
w/response from Daniel Pipes
AnonNov 15, 2015 03:32226388
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w/response from Daniel Pipes
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India not included ?? [49 words]
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corresponding roles of Beirut and Paris [42 words]mythNov 20, 2015 08:03226374
1The Beirut atrocity [46 words]dhimmi no moreNov 24, 2015 07:24226374
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Atanas ShinikovNov 14, 2015 15:53226369
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w/response from Daniel Pipes
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1Radical Muslims [47 words]TKListNov 14, 2015 14:36226364

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Note: Opinions expressed in comments are those of the authors alone and not necessarily those of Daniel Pipes. Original writing only, please. Comments are screened and in some cases edited before posting. Reasoned disagreement is welcome but not comments that are scurrilous, off-topic, commercial, disparaging religions, or otherwise inappropriate. For complete regulations, see the "Guidelines for Reader Comments".

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