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Clarity vs Democracy, etc

Reader comment on item: Why the Paris Massacre Will Have Limited Impact
in response to reader comment: Pro-Democracy instead of just anti-Islam, getting into the habit, toward precision-Democracy

Submitted by Michael S (United States), Dec 24, 2015 at 18:05

Hi, Demsci

I am not pro-Democratic, as you are. I live in a sort-of Democracy; and my wife and I participate in it by voting (We are US citizens). I don't see Democracy as the hope of the future, though, nor do I even think it has much of a future here in the US. To be precise, we are a republic, not very different from the Roman Republic. Like them, we have checks and balances, with multiple legislative branches balanced out by an executive branch. Like them also, our elections are bought and sold by extremely wealthy people. Like them also, our formerly agrarian society has been replaced by an urban society in which the people are placated by government handouts and spectacular entertainment which is -- as theirs also was -- full of violence and sex. Like them also, we have a well-entrenched bureacracy, a good transportation system, a strong military and high taxes.

The Roman Republic lasted from 509 BC to 27 BC, 476 years. Our own was constituted in 1789, 226 years ago, but it was preceded by the British and Dutch colonial systems, going back to the early 1600s. In terms of our political development, we are in a similar place to where Rome was in the First Century BC. In other words, an empire could develop at any time -- with the difference that here, unlike Rome, it will probably not happen through a military coup. Instead, it will probably come about through the assumption of (permanent) emergency power by the President.

In Rome, the turn towards dictators and eventually to Caesar happened because (1) the disparity between rich and poor became so great, the average Roman no longer trusted the elected officials to properly represent him; and (2) government corruption became so entrenched that the rule of law was breaking down. When Rome came to this condition, there was no longer any point for the champions of democracy to fight; because democracy itself was no longer a solution to their problems.

I just told you what happened in Rome, and what probably will happen in the US, more because of your interest in Democracy than because of any interest I might have in it. I am a "Christian", in that I believe the Bible and accept Jesus as the Messiah. This actually makes me a different sort of creation from most humans. I live in this world as a resident alien, because my true and eternal citizenship is in heaven; and I look for life in a place most humans don't look -- in death and resurrection. As a result, I'm not attached to Democracy and other passing fads the way others are; I am attached to things that matter, things that will be with me forever.

Thank you for giving me the latest count of Western Democratic countries. Let me see if I can count them:

  1. Norway
  2. Sweden
  3. Iceland
  4. New Zealand
  5. Denmark
  6. Switzerland
  7. Canada
  8. Finland
  9. Australia
  10. Netherlands
  11. Luxembourg
  12. Ireland
  13. Germany
  14. Austria
  15. Malta, UK Britain
  16. Uruguay
  17. Mauritius
  18. US America
  19. Japan
  20. S Korea
  21. Spain
  22. France
  23. Costa Rica
  24. Czech R
  25. Belgium
  26. India
  27. Botswana
  28. Italy
  29. S Africa
  30. Cape Verde
  31. Chile
  32. Portugal
  33. Estonia
  34. Taiwan
  35. Israel
  36. Slovenia
  37. Lithuania
  38. Latvia
  39. Poland
  40. Greece
  41. Cyprus
  42. Jamaica
  43. Brazil
  44. Slovakia
  45. Timor-Leste
  46. Panama
  47. Trinidad & Tobago
  48. Indonesia
  49. Croatia
  50. Hungary
  51. Argentina
  52. Suriname
  53. Philippines
  54. Bulgaria
  55. Serbia
  56. Romania
  57. Mexico

I'll stop there, because the above includes all the countries who have managed to attain to the threshold standards for membership in the EU. Even Hungary, which is in the EEA and Schengen as well, is only ranked #50. Israel has a mediocre standing at #35. The whole Index is listed at

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democracy_Index

That's a useful list, in that it shows which governments have a stake in protecting and promoting democracy. India makes the list, ahead of Italy; and even Indonesia, the only Muslim country. Malaysia is further down, at #65 -- right next to Hong Kong at #66, which I don't consider democratic. Mexico is in a tie with Romania, which doesn't say much good for Romania; but it does place the EU and NAFTA in the same "democracy" range.

Examples of non-democratic countries are:

  • Malaysia (#65)
  • Sigapore (#76)
  • Ukraine (#92)
  • Thailand (#93)
  • Turkey (#98)
  • Pakistan (#108)
  • Algeria (#117)
  • Nigeria (#121)
  • Vietnam (#130)
  • Russia (#133)
  • China (#134)
  • Egypt (#138)
  • Iran (#158)
  • Saudi Arabia (#161)
  • Syria (#163)
  • N Korea (#167)

Speaking of clarity of message, I wouldn't call the Hindu message "clear" at all; yet they are very democratic. Nepal has essentially the same message, yet they are only about as democratic asTurkey and Pakistan. Japan, also, does not have a clear religious message at all; but they are highly democratic. The Vatican, on the other hand, has about the clearest message possible; but they aren't even listed.

Oh well.

Submitting....

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Reader comments (98) on this item

Title Commenter Date Thread
5 P's [18 words]
w/response from Daniel Pipes
DSan MancusoMay 19, 2018 23:04243033
city of Antwerpen to give machinepistols to their police force [92 words]mythDec 8, 2015 13:50226879
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French establishment wake up to the specific origin of the attack [77 words]mythNov 20, 2015 07:57226478
Excllent article Dr. Pipes and quite true [169 words]kmanNov 20, 2015 01:04226472
An annotation concerning Germany [182 words]Wolf DoleysNov 19, 2015 08:57226465
What can we do? [36 words]DougNov 18, 2015 20:29226453
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Why [20 words]
w/response from Daniel Pipes
L. H. MorseNov 16, 2015 16:43226423
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2Islamists are Muslims!! So lets just call them Muslims!! [67 words]JaladhiNov 16, 2015 13:59226422
The checking of facts [90 words]
w/response from Daniel Pipes
Kaare Magnus DreyerNov 16, 2015 13:56226421
I wish I could disagree [241 words]JeffNov 16, 2015 12:31226420
I confess I was so wrong [135 words]JeffNov 20, 2015 13:48226420
Maybe in the USA, but not in France [145 words]Barry BlackNov 16, 2015 12:22226419
Talking to Myself [71 words]Barry BlackNov 20, 2015 09:36226419
Again [2 words]WardNov 16, 2015 11:40226418
Aboutaleb mayor of Rotterdam ambiguous [408 words]mythNov 16, 2015 10:13226416
There is an Assumption in Your Analysis [113 words]djolds1Nov 16, 2015 09:14226415
What is the Establishment's purpose [20 words]
w/response from Daniel Pipes
Andrew_M_GarlandNov 15, 2015 19:23226409
Pipes: Explaining the Denial [174 words]Andrew_M_GarlandNov 21, 2015 19:12226409
France to close down some mosques [47 words]PezDispenserNov 15, 2015 18:21226406
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Denying reality [95 words]JohnBNov 15, 2015 14:23226403
Denial of Reality ... islam itself ... [428 words]Domenic PepeNov 15, 2015 13:23226401
On Removing Blinders ... [125 words]Domenic PepeNov 28, 2015 12:20226401
Religion is a social disease [13 words]LarryNov 15, 2015 10:09226399
1We never learn [98 words]Jules PostenNov 15, 2015 10:01226398
I largely agree, BUT . . . [129 words]
w/response from Daniel Pipes
Nora BrinkerNov 15, 2015 09:52226397
Less Than Decades [126 words]
w/response from Daniel Pipes
BoogsXNov 15, 2015 09:36226395
Deputé Sebastien Pietrasanta calls for more air strikes - on France 3 TV [85 words]mythNov 15, 2015 08:57226394
1the significance of football as a medium translates the abstract into the concrete [785 words]mythNov 15, 2015 08:45226393
Islam is irresponsibly vague and thus not clear [322 words]DemsciNov 15, 2015 07:08226392
1Islam is crystal clear to Muslims in its instructions ... [192 words]JaladhiNov 21, 2015 14:17226392
Another strategy [492 words]DemsciNov 29, 2015 10:04226392
Islamic History and "Moderate" Islam [653 words]Michael SNov 30, 2015 17:30226392
Islam is crystal clear to Muslims in its instructions to kill infidels!! [246 words]JaladhiDec 3, 2015 15:22226392
Calling Islam clear is a compliment, calling it vague, multi-interpretable is the real insult [428 words]DemsciDec 4, 2015 19:21226392
I aim for our majority to hold each Muslim among us accountable for clinging to unqualified Islam [389 words]DemsciDec 4, 2015 19:46226392
Muslims and radicalization [209 words]Michael SDec 8, 2015 19:56226392
Telling Islam is clear cut in its instructions is not complimentary- just telling the truth!! [427 words]JaladhiDec 9, 2015 11:38226392
My aim is getting to a majority of Democratic Citizens to hold Muslims accountable for religious choice [548 words]DemsciDec 13, 2015 00:26226392
My focus is on: CLEAR Democracy, opinion of our majority, Citizens, what Muslims think and do is secundary. [248 words]DemsciDec 13, 2015 00:45226392
I think you obfuscate more than I do [323 words]DemsciDec 13, 2015 01:10226392
Clarity instead of doubt and relying on our own judgement of Islam [212 words]DemsciDec 14, 2015 01:33226392
Survival is the issue, not doctrine [751 words]Michael SDec 17, 2015 09:06226392
Pro-Democracy instead of just anti-Islam, getting into the habit, toward precision-Democracy [313 words]DemsciDec 21, 2015 10:15226392
We need a big reaction, but part of it is declaring Islam irresponsibly multi-interpretable [145 words]DemsciDec 21, 2015 21:22226392
Yes, survival of Western Democratic system is paramount [244 words]DemsciDec 22, 2015 05:49226392
The Muslim god, and other gods. [804 words]Michael SDec 24, 2015 07:56226392
Clarity vs Democracy, etc [792 words]Michael SDec 24, 2015 18:05226392
Dogs chasing tails. [83 words]Michael SDec 24, 2015 19:17226392
THANX [63 words]Steve BakerNov 15, 2015 06:20226391
worse things have happen to france, [9 words]denNov 15, 2015 05:24226390
Iran or ISIS? No comparison. [114 words]
w/response from Daniel Pipes
AnonNov 15, 2015 03:32226388
Response to Daniel Pipes [170 words]AnonNov 25, 2015 02:25226388
Question for Dr Pipes [110 words]
w/response from Daniel Pipes
AnonNov 27, 2015 22:53226388
I wrote this as a novel years ago [29 words]y Brandstetter MDNov 15, 2015 00:58226386
India not included ?? [49 words]
w/response from Daniel Pipes
Carlos de SouzaNov 14, 2015 22:53226382
2Response to Daniel Pipes [148 words]
w/response from Daniel Pipes
AnonNov 29, 2015 11:33226382
West's folly of Muslim immigration [162 words]JaladhiDec 3, 2015 20:52226382
West's folly of Muslim immigration -2 [55 words]JaladhiDec 3, 2015 21:06226382
4Complicit, willing accessories and enablers [119 words]Uncle VladdiNov 14, 2015 22:05226381
Insensitivity in the general polity [242 words]
w/response from Daniel Pipes
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Honest Viktor Orban? [34 words]
w/response from Daniel Pipes
JackNov 14, 2015 18:36226378
What happens when Paris Happens Here [29 words]Phil Baldwin JrNov 14, 2015 18:24226377
4-P or 3-P? [48 words]BANov 14, 2015 18:10226376
5Judeo-Christian Ethics Poorly Matched Against Islamism [249 words]DaveNov 14, 2015 17:59226375
1The Non-Eficacy of Religion - The Very Point Of the Holy Bible [187 words]M ToveyNov 23, 2015 12:59226375
3We can always learn from history [229 words]dhimmi no moreNov 23, 2015 17:03226375
These Days Christian Leaders Are a Bunch of Complacent Morons [409 words]Nur el Masih ben HaqDec 9, 2015 19:51226375
Your Prediction of Little or No Impact [210 words]RonnieNov 14, 2015 17:47226374
corresponding roles of Beirut and Paris [42 words]mythNov 20, 2015 08:03226374
1The Beirut atrocity [46 words]dhimmi no moreNov 24, 2015 07:24226374
Your analysis is (unfortunately) correct [53 words]BillNov 14, 2015 17:29226373
Irrational Response of Intellectuals to Muslim Violence [144 words]Ilbert PhillipsNov 14, 2015 17:17226372
Moral cowardice, decadence and the abscence of values = Moral relativism [101 words]steven LNov 14, 2015 16:35226371
1Persons of Courage [41 words]Jerry PollardNov 14, 2015 16:01226370
I wonder to what extent we can maintain this split [297 words]
w/response from Daniel Pipes
Atanas ShinikovNov 14, 2015 15:53226369
Syrian refugees [28 words]anonNov 14, 2015 15:50226368
howard dean? et al [91 words]harriNov 14, 2015 15:01226366
The Bubble of the Elite [114 words]
w/response from Daniel Pipes
PeterNov 14, 2015 14:41226365
I agree with Dr Pipes [53 words]y Brandstetter MDNov 22, 2015 11:09226365
1Radical Muslims [47 words]TKListNov 14, 2015 14:36226364

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Note: Opinions expressed in comments are those of the authors alone and not necessarily those of Daniel Pipes. Original writing only, please. Comments are screened and in some cases edited before posting. Reasoned disagreement is welcome but not comments that are scurrilous, off-topic, commercial, disparaging religions, or otherwise inappropriate. For complete regulations, see the "Guidelines for Reader Comments".

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