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discussing reasonably - how to do it

Reader comment on item: The Burqa Wars
in response to reader comment: Common sense is quite uncommon

Submitted by G.Vishvas (India), Sep 20, 2009 at 01:41

To Kashayar (USA)

To regard and declare one's own writing as excellent and the other person's writing as drivel is a cheapskate tactic. It gives away your inability to discuss reasonably. But that is what I notice in all my discussion with muslims. They are impatient, declare their own victory in any discussion and cease. Somewhat like what Bush did in Irak. So when you call my postings a drivel – what does that mean?

In your posting you have come up with a lot of valid criticism of RSS, VHP, Golwalkar, treatment of Biharis in Mumbai etc. But islam does not become better or perfect or uncritisizable because of any crimes or idiocies carried out by hindus. This too is a typical muslim reaction. If I criticize islam then this criticism has to be evaluated on this basis only – irrespective of any sins, crimes or mistakes done by non-muslims. Muslims fail to appreciate this crucial aspect of any discussion. I do not claim that hindu religions (note the plural) become any better because islam is not perfect. This is especially true in case of all religions, because all religions claim some special connection to the highest truth. This claim excludes the possibility of coming up with any excuses or pointing to the other peoples' failures etc. Fact is, there are Hinduism-criticizing websites - and the danielpipes.org is not one of them. This website has made it a task to expose islam and arabs and their lies and violence. If we wish to discuss the evils in hindu religions then we shall have to discuss them through some other website or blog. I hope you understand this respectful self-discipline. We cannot make use of a website created by Dr. Daniel Pipes to discuss the evils in hindu religions. In fact Dr. Pipes even refuses to take notice of the sufferings which islam has caused to hindus. ... Fact is, arabs, pseudo-arabs, muslims, sunni fascists, shia fascists, neo-nazis are the sworn enemies of jews and Israel today. This follows from the kuran and ahadith which you muslims wish to (and must) put into practice. I as a hindu can only write in Dr. Pipes forum in order to bring out the parallels between jewish sufferings and hindu sufferings resulting from islam. Strictly speaking Dr. Pipes can forbid me from doing even that – after all it is his private ... forum.

Whatever that be – by pointing out the sins, crimes and idiocies done by the hindus you have not succeeded in refuting the sins, crimes and idiocies of islam and muslims.

The question that then crops up is: what are the sentences in the kuran and hadith that cause islam to become a fascist totalitarian arab-centric-chauvinist imperialist ideology.

Islam claims to be the final perfect revelation and religion – something which none of the present-day hindu religions (or sects) claim to be. Hence islam has to be judged by different standards of strictness. It cannot be done like some two small school boys bickering with one another.

You wrote : "What about Bali in Ramayana who kept his brother Sugreev's wife by force after kicking him out ? What about Pandavas and Kauravas in Mahabharat ? Your Dharmaraj Yudishtra wagered his wife to his brothers in the game of dice? Or Bimbisara and Ajatashatru where son killed the father for the throne?"

Fact is, these persons are not worshipped by hindus. But Aurangzeb is regarded as a hero of islam. Muslim sunni orthodoxy glorified Aurangzeb's killing of his elder brother Dara Shukoh. If you visit Aurangzeb's grave in Khuldabad then you will get to know how the muslim grave-tender says words of praise about Aurangzeb even today.

You write Gandhi was killed by a hindu terrorist. That is not true. A terrorist hides himself from law after committing the crime. A terrorist also kills indiscriminately. That is what the killer of Gandhi did not do. He aimed his bullets only at Gandhi and no one else and after the deed he handed himself over to the police and said clearly in the court that he deserves to be hanged because he has killed a human being. Even Jawed Naqvi (Dawn,s muslim correspondent in Delhi) appreciates this crucial difference. BTW, I myself do not approve of what the brahmin killer of Gandhi did. Not only was it an evil deed but also a foolish deed because it gave the anti-brahminic and anti-hindu forces in India much fuel. The damage which Gandhi did to the hindus (through his appeasement of the agents and quislings of islam) could not be undone by this deed anyway.

You wrote; "The Indian muslim cannot and must not be held accountable for the actions of Muslims in Pakistan."

Right - but the Indian muslim must be held responsible for the demographic aggression which he is carrying out in India. Their population component has increased from 6.5% to 16% in 60 years. This demographic aggression, in an already overpopulated land, is certainly not a peace-bringing factor. Hindu animosity against muslims would have been much less (not zero, but much less that what it is now) if the population component of muslims had remained at 6.5%. Actually 90% of muslims had wanted Pakistan hence they had no right to remain in the non-pakistani part of british India after August 1945. So their fair population component in India would be only less than 1%. Therefore even a 6.5% muslim population component in India would be an unfair burden, insult, injustice, danger and injury to the hindus. What to speak of 16%.

Since islam was created in Makkah and not in the Indian Subcontinent (ISC) hence islam and its agents and quislings have no right to determine boundaries, policies, worship forms, politics, jurisprudence etc. in the ISC. This explains why I, with correct and valid justification, regard islam as an alien imperialist ideology that is incompatible with self-respecting indian-ness (even in its broadest definition). Monotheism is by nature absolutist-totalitarian – and in its islamic-arabic form it becomes the most fascist-arabic-imperialist form of totalitarianism. I get emails from Pakistan where persons with muslim names (i.e. born muslims) say that my criticism of islam is correct. I myself have formed my judgment of islam by reading pakistani newspapers (newspapers published by muslims for muslims in a 97% muslim land). A pakistani muslim (a mohajir immigrant from India) said that he realized that islam is a totalitarian ideology, but he has now made his peace with this fact since he cannot leave Pakistan or cannot be safe in Pakistan if he criticizes or rejects openly.

Hindu religions wish to remain in ISC whereas islam wishes to conquer the whole world and bring it under its arabic-monotheistic totalitarianism. If one is imperfect and idiotic (which is the case of both islam and hindu religions – but more so in case of islam) then one should at least remain in one's own house and not try to spread all over the place. If you are infected by an infectious brain illness then why go about spreading it or increasing the number of those afflicted by it?

There are 9 criteria of determining the fascism-totalitarianism content of an ideology or religion, like the following ones (and may be there are some more):

1.2.3.) Treatment of ex-members, women, non-members

4.5.6.) Control over education, media, entertainment

7.8.9.) Control over history-writing, faith (worship), jurisprudence

We can and must judge every religion or ideology on this basis. Islam turns out to be the ideology and religion with the maximum fascism-totalitarianism content and intent today. Islam's past glories, if there were any, are of no use today. Islam has marched off into the fascist-totalitarian direction (more than ever before) in an irreversible manner. Since islam uses the word god for its fascist purposes and methods, hence islam has to be classified as a blasphemous ideology also.

You seem to be quite at ease using the word "paki". I never use such words. Pakistan is the experiment of islam on hindu lands and it shows convincingly that a good honest peaceful relaxed human society cannot be founded or maintained on the basis of islam. We have to appreciate that fully and openly, and not ridicule the misled-misused-disfigured-trampled-upon citizens of Pakistan as pakis. Remember: the Pakistanis are the real hindus (=inhabitants of the Sindhu river basin, as per the original meaning of the word Hindu). Do not humiliate them or tease them. So long their loyalty is manipulated towards the arab fascist god allah and the arab fascist strongman Mohammad, they are not and cannot be my brothers. But I do sympathetically understand their self-inflicted-islamic pains, self-deceits, misguidance and tragedies.



Note: Opinions expressed in comments are those of the authors alone and not necessarily those of Daniel Pipes. Original writing only, please. Comments are screened and in some cases edited before posting. Reasoned disagreement is welcome but not comments that are scurrilous, off-topic, commercial, disparaging religions, or otherwise inappropriate. For complete regulations, see the "Guidelines for Reader Comments".

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Reader comments (83) on this item

Title Commenter Date Thread
I don't think Europe is "ahead" of us [290 words]
w/response from Daniel Pipes
Michael SSep 9, 2016 04:21232462
what's the point? [229 words]MitchFeb 3, 2017 06:33232462
Can you please get me back to Kansas? [656 words]Michael SFeb 5, 2017 00:38232462
Freedom to go stark naked? [85 words]Gary E.Sep 29, 2015 07:00225394
There's a direction to all this, and the Muslims aren't to blame. [228 words]Michael SSep 10, 2016 17:40225394
1Worrying about headscarves, while "skirting" around the problem [614 words]Michael SJan 21, 2015 06:53220550
1Unislamic Burqas [130 words]PrashantJan 3, 2012 23:29192256
eyes [21 words]jerome HenenJul 17, 2011 14:18187512
Burqas in France [183 words]John StaufferApr 12, 2011 21:58184204
4the "prophet mohammed" spoke clearly against women, the burqa is just a way of enforcing domination and supression of women. ..May ..2010 [169 words]Phil GreendMay 3, 2010 03:46172027
Burqa video [41 words]JenTDec 13, 2009 01:56165762
1The two faces of Islam - Read the book "23 Years" by Ali Dashti to understand Islam by understanding its development [140 words]FriendOfIslamDec 8, 2009 02:09165486
Burqa or not to Burqa [93 words]DavePOct 1, 2009 13:48162428
To Burqa Or Not To Burqa That's A Question Of World Thought [282 words]D.K.Milgrim-HeathSep 22, 2010 21:41162428
God bless that lady [9 words]dfwhite19438Sep 27, 2009 02:53162171
headscarf ban in vlaanderen(dutch speaking belgium) starting from 2010 [42 words]savingthewesternworldSep 16, 2009 12:41161632
Double standards [183 words]PrashantAug 30, 2009 23:54160848
The thing about living in the EU [28 words]Straight_Talk_LuigiSep 1, 2009 00:56160848
1Time to unveil [168 words]Rebecca MouldsAug 16, 2009 14:19160272
France downhill [67 words]StopoilJul 19, 2009 18:53159035
1My theory of the Burqa [208 words]LynnJul 16, 2009 07:57158911
Sarkozy's Fatwa [26 words]Vinod GulatiJul 13, 2009 22:37158819
legality of banning burka [244 words]G. VishvasJul 19, 2009 05:58158819
Banning anything. [163 words]Vinod GulatiJul 20, 2009 12:17158819
Gulatis naivete will be very costly [354 words]G.VishvasJul 21, 2009 10:44158819
1Hypocrisy just got BIGGER [252 words]KashayarSep 9, 2009 05:30158819
competition about who is the bigger hypocrite [90 words]G.VishvasSep 9, 2009 21:28158819
1You win the competition hands on [206 words]KashayarSep 11, 2009 06:48158819
You cannot unilaterally decide who wins [271 words]G.VishvasSep 12, 2009 20:53158819
1Common sense decides the winner [472 words]KashayarSep 14, 2009 07:44158819
Intelligence includes common sense [884 words]G.VishvasSep 14, 2009 20:02158819
Common sense is quite uncommon [801 words]KashayarSep 18, 2009 04:05158819
discussing reasonably - how to do it [1448 words]G.VishvasSep 20, 2009 01:41158819
It's true [33 words]Vermilion8Nov 5, 2009 13:32158819
2What is wrong in wearing ski masks in public [19 words]PPSMay 6, 2010 04:09158819
1Europe's Burqa Wars [192 words]moJul 12, 2009 06:34158774
2Let us take a clue from passport pictures requirements [219 words]George PJul 12, 2009 00:57158769
Nuns prostitute for Jesus? [22 words]Khalif TandawadonJun 14, 2018 07:48158769
I have a question for our dear Khalif (PBUH) in regard to زواج المسيار and زواج المتعة [107 words]dhimmi no moreJun 15, 2018 05:49158769
UK's poll decision [49 words]James AureliusApr 1, 2009 00:57153077
42Prostitutes had to wear hijab 7000 years ago [2007 words]n.krishnaDec 5, 2006 02:5968303
Respect [43 words]NJ CastroNov 7, 2008 05:4968303
Jews not included? [119 words]Hannah Y. GrauDec 7, 2008 16:2068303
To Krishna [364 words]moJul 12, 2009 06:1768303
Are you any better ? [80 words]KashayarSep 9, 2009 05:3968303
Interesting but... [99 words]AhuJan 27, 2010 16:4868303
1Yes about Jews And Israel [193 words]D.K. Milgrim-HeathMay 17, 2010 07:3068303
You are wrong.. [119 words]amqwertySep 2, 2010 13:0968303
2Historically Inaccurate! [215 words]MaizeSep 18, 2011 04:3668303
rare truth [12 words]2bussyJul 6, 2012 17:4968303
Burkahs should never be required. [5 words]WalkerSep 19, 2012 04:4268303
Optional [6 words]walkerSep 19, 2012 04:4368303
jewish women and veils [178 words]ghaberFeb 12, 2015 19:0168303
Danki [1 words]SundayAug 25, 2015 15:5668303
Now we don't have time to unpack all of this, but: [15 words]NiseJul 1, 2019 18:5568303
Not really ... [113 words]Rk403Sep 12, 2019 09:3868303
Why I am against the Burqa [214 words]Octavio JohansonNov 21, 2006 05:4266794
An outrageous idea [43 words]Aisha GayleJul 21, 2009 16:0266794
Don't like it in the UK [8 words]Straight_Talk_LuigiNov 13, 2009 17:5866794
This is just show that Europeans have no tolerance and oppress women [84 words]tarikurNov 18, 2006 15:3466521
Praise be to the Dutch [53 words]Octavio JohansonNov 18, 2006 19:2966521
The problem with tolerance [165 words]Octavio JohansonNov 19, 2006 14:1766521
Well, now... [238 words]munineyeDec 18, 2008 03:3466521
Amen, Octavio! When immigrating to another country, fit in! [20 words]Mike ConlonNov 23, 2015 23:2766521
Europe's burqa wars [254 words]BrunoNov 18, 2006 14:2466515
burqas [9 words]helloFeb 6, 2007 06:3666515
The march of progress [134 words]RajahOct 26, 2006 01:2264516
who is immoral? [86 words]AnitaOct 25, 2006 18:0364492
Zero Tolerance for the Burqua [203 words]Octavio JohansonNov 19, 2006 05:1264492
1God bless the dutch [32 words]George PJul 12, 2009 01:0364492
Regarding Europe's Burqa Wars posted August 25, 2005 [140 words]MoraaFeb 25, 2006 20:0938031
burkah the shield [52 words]saq from ukMay 1, 2006 17:5538031
Typical [259 words]AaronMay 7, 2006 07:2038031
Not a typical response !! [261 words]KhatibMay 11, 2006 15:2038031
un-moral morals [43 words]susanSep 23, 2006 15:1438031
saq, how naive... [47 words]susanSep 23, 2006 15:1738031
1advice on the superior muslim mothers [61 words]susanSep 23, 2006 15:2038031
Questions [209 words]oswaldSep 24, 2006 01:4838031
Only a man can [121 words]oswaldSep 24, 2006 06:0538031
Musli mwomen better? [204 words]YnnatchkahDec 8, 2008 02:4838031
What about .....? [92 words]ISisJul 13, 2009 02:3038031

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